Tres
Yes, I know that the other scenes under the romantic love header page had reference pages listed at the top of the pictures. My point is that what it says on page 232 totally undermines your claim of Cloti being canon, especially when your article also says this under the Clerith date scene:
nothing so amazing, no, all it tells us is that the date itself is up to player control, so no one version is ‘official,’
So if a scene under player control can't have an official version, then the Highwind scene (which is also under player control because it has optional versions), also can't have an official version. Your entire article is undermined and contradicted.
My forehead is literally in my palm, sweetness. In
the post to which you replied here I already said that a scene being under player control can have an official version.
So you drawing a conclusion that follows a basis of "if a scene under player control can't have an official version" means you either read some of the post but not all of it, or are deliberately being intellectually dishonest by focusing on -- in this case, Ryu's to begin with rather than my own -- a poor choice of wording that, even if inaccurate, still doesn't carry any authority on the topic being discussed.
For that matter, focusing on what he said to mean what you've insisted it does is really only possible in the first place if you take Ryu's wording to mean something other than what he obviously really meant -- not that a scene under player control can't have a canon outcome, but that the book said the specific scene he was talking about didn't have a canon outcome because of its own focus on the player's control of the situation.
Tl;dr: the book said there wasn't a canon outcome for the date because it focused on the player's control over the matter -- Ryu only reported the book saying this rather than making an argument that a scene that the player has control over can't have a canon outcome.
And for that matter, even if he had said such nonsense, him being wrong doesn't mean diddly dick with regard to the canonicity of the optional scene being discussed or any other optional scene. Ryu could be wrong and an optional scene still have a canon outcome, because the latter is not dependent on the former.
Your focus on his wording is ridiculous. It's like you're trying to "win" a political debate by making "Oh, snap!" comebacks instead of getting to the heart of the matter, where the facts are the facts independent of who said what and how right or wrong their specific choice of phrasing is.
This is like when a creationist goes after the concept of evolution by trying to attack Darwin or by spreading the lie that he had recanted his findings on his deathbed. Even if Darwin's personal research was faulty or if he had made such a deathbed change of mind it wouldn't reflect on the validity of the concept of evolution. It's not held as a truth in the field of science because Darwin said it; it's held as a truth because that's what the evidence independent of anyone (including Darwin) has demonstrated.
Anastar said:
Fair enough - but what it says has direct impact on your "For the One I Love" article, and it was omitted from there.
It has as direct an impact on the statements on the "For the One I Love" page as the "Deviation" sidebars related to Shadow dying on the Floating Continent have on FFVI's story summary including him reuniting with the Returners in the World of Ruin or being present for the final battle with Kefka, and as much impact as the optional nature of Terra's scene of revelation about motherly love has on the canonicity of that scene.
For the record, the script of both that scene with Terra and the scene of the Returners confronting Kefka before the final battle with him (Shadow among them, his own line from that moment included) are two of FFVI's own four selected "Impressive Scenes" in the U20 Scenario guide (pg. 161).
Now, seriously, you can continue with this bullshit, truth obscuring focus on a misreading of Ryu's comments from almost two years ago (
in which case you will also have to make the plainly absurd claim that the scene with Terra lacks a canon outcome, and that Shadow's death or survival on the Floating Continent lacks a canon outcome, and that FFX-2's story does not have a canon sequence of events; and I'm inflating the length of this sentence, underlining it and including bold and italics tags around the most vital words herein to emphasize that this is the most important sentence in this entire post and that I expect you to address it if you post a response -- or just not bother replying at all; for real) or you can discuss something constructive like what criteria should be used for deciding which optional scenes are canon and which are not.
Anastar said:
And I think that's merely your opinion. Yes, some scenes have a canon outcome, but not all scenes.
Seriously, what am I supposed to think when you post a reply like this to me saying "Many things in the game, such as recruiting Vincent and Yuffie, are under player control, but still have canon outcomes"? "Many" = "all"? "Many" and "some" are mutually exclusive?
Double-you to the tee to the eff, woman.
Anastar said:
I never said that scenes with optional outcomes can't have a canon outcome. I said that the Highwind scene having a canon outcome is pure assumption, especially since SE has never said it has a canon outcome.
Assumption is something taken to be true without vetting or comparing it against a set of criteria. Do you really think that's what is being done here? When a determination reached through reasoning (a process that is the opposite of assumption) has been constantly given to you? Really?
How fucking insulting.
Anastar said:
SE is quite familiar with the whole issue of the Love Triangle. IF a scene like the Highwind scene had a canon outcome that determined the Love Triangle, SE would say so. They've essentially said that the Date scene has a default outcome. If SE is willing to say that the Date has a default outcome, then why wouldn't they say that the Highwind scene has a canon outcome - IF a canon outcome truly exists?
Default/more easily achieved is equivalent to canon? So we're back to Shadow dying on the Floating Continent and FFX-2 not having a canon sequence of events?
Anastar said:
That's not what I see on page 232. That sounds like what it says on page 394 (the "For the One I Love" page).
If you don't see it on pg. 232 then you're reading it as diligently/selectively as you read my previous post. Now READ:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/ffu20highwind.jpg
そして、ふたり、きりになったクラウドとティファは、残された最後の時間で互いの想いを打ち明け合う。
"And when Cloud and Tifa remain behind alone, in their final hours, they disclose that their feelings for each other match."
Anastar said:
And if you think that means "that's what happened anyway", then I think you're just seeing what you want to see - to put it frankly. Sorry if that seems rude.
No worries. It's not nearly as rude as your backhanded way of constantly calling me a liar without ever substantiating your position. =)
Anastar said:
I'm sure I've seen this at some point, but please link me to the translation? I'd like to make sure it's the same one I'm thinking it is.
Pg. 199:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/impressivescenes2.jpg
Tifa's "Words aren't the only way" line (クラウド……想いを伝えられるのは言葉だけじゃないよ……
is clearly visible there in the top screenshot under the bottom heading and also the line right before the last one in the accompanying script. But, again, you know all this and have known so for nearly two years now.
Anastar said:
Face it, if SE wanted to confirm either Clerith or Cloti in AC/ACC, all they had to do was put a kissing scene in between Cloud and one of the girls.
You may want to sit down for this: kissing scenes aren't the only way to convey romance. Are you going to be alright?
Anastar said:
I'm not absolutely positive about this, but I believe that the picture of the HW scene on the "For the One I Love" could actually be from either version of the scene. When it says that their feelings match in the caption, that could also be a reference to either version.
Yeah, let's focus on a screenshot instead of the words actually in the caption describing it and the context established for it on a page that's specifically talking about moments that romantic love was expressed.
What a crock of shit.
So, Annie, how soon can I expect a response from you in which you don't address the above bolded, italicized and underlined portions of this post, or just refuse to address anything at all because your delicate nature insists I'm not being civil enough?
It's just that Vendel keeps on insisting that I should have noticed Cloti in AC when I have not. Somehow, we got into the last scene, which is in ACC.
)
