The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Celes Chere]

I'm tired of listening to you guys use insults as proof that I'm wrong. Frankly, you all sound like bullies on a grade school playground.

1. Report insults. Don't think the mods are all biased Clotis that won't listen to you. Because they'renot.
2. You are the only one taking this personally and getting frustrated. It's JUST the LTD. It's not the end of the world. It's not like someone died or something. Calm down, seriously.
3. We haven't used INSULTS as PROOF.
4. cry more

 

[Dashell]

2. You are the only one taking this personally and getting frustrated. It's JUST the LTD. It's not the end of the world. It's not like someone died or something.

Aerith


Also yes, please report stuff. The mods will listen. Even if it's Tres or Ryu who insulted you, it doesn't mean you can't report it. Case in point, Ryu was actually banned from this thread for a while for breaking the rules, so don't think that just because a mod misbehaves that they'll all agree that he was right.

 

[ClerithRaven]

1. Yes or no - do you deny that the High Affection Highwind scene is romantic and shows Cloud has romantic feelings for Tifa? (I KNOW it's optional and non canon to you, but please answer the question)

Yes.

2. Yes or no - do you deny that Cloud had a crush on/dimly fell in love with/had feelings for Tifa as a child? (I KNOW it was in the past, but please just answer.)

Yes.

As for the why's of it. You'd get that in another post when you do ask for it.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Alright, I'LL ask. How do you deny the romantic-ness of the HA scene? How do you deny the clearly romantic nature of Cloud's feelings for Tifa when they were kids?

And we're still waiting for the Clerith proofz Quex asked for, btw

 

[Dashell]

Okay so... Square told us it's romantic so... yeah go ahead and tell me why Square saying it's romantic means it isn't. Keep in mind Im' not asking if you think either of those is canon or valid, just if they're romantic.

 

[Celes Chere]

And we're still waiting for the Clerith proofz Quex asked for, btw

I think we've all asked for proof, lol. XD

 

[Dashell]

I think they think I'm asking "Do you deny this makes Cloti canon?" but I'm not. I'm just asking if they agree it's romantic (which they should as we've been told it is )

 

[ClerithRaven]

I feel like I've missed a TON of posts here.

What was the topic? What were we REALLY debating about?
Showing that romance happened between Cloud and Aerith?
Even I say that Anastar's quotes are enough. If it isn't for you, then it's not our problem.

We can like or support whatever couple we want. It's our rights and our privilege to do so. So why debate on which is CANON? Even if one was said to be canon, would that even stop the other side from liking the pair they want? What, you expect people to jump ship? It just really depends on the person, nothing more.

I believe in Aerith loving the REAL Cloud, and Cloud loving Aerith. We've given quotes, but you kept disproving it as romantic. So tell me, what is the difference between us?

Quex, I'll address this to you.

People say actions speak louder than words. Tifa herself said that they can express their feelings without using words. So tell me, where does Cloud act romantically towards Tifa? Actions, not just what the UO or whatever book said.
What was really shown in the game where CLOUD acted romantically towards TIFA, and not the other way around? Inarguable actions.

If anyone other than Quex wants to answer this, fine. Be my guest.

 

[Dashell]

Why are you trying to turn this around on me? Please don't, I've been asking for this for pages now and I think I at least deserve an honest response.

Okay so are you saying the UO and such is lying or... that you want us to think for ourselves?

 

[ClerithRaven]

Alright, I'LL ask. How do you deny the romantic-ness of the HA scene? How do you deny the clearly romantic nature of Cloud's feelings for Tifa when they were kids?

Okay so... Square told us it's romantic so... yeah go ahead and tell me why Square saying it's romantic means it isn't. Keep in mind Im' not asking if you think either of those is canon or valid, just if they're romantic.

1. I simply don't see it as romantic: them being dramatic over not having anyone or anywhere to go home to; them talking about what transpired in the Lifestream event; if the "sex logic" was to be followed, Tifa practically initiated the thought; if we don't follow the "sex logic", then what did they do to reveal mutual feelings? They talked from dusk to dawn. About what? Who in here knows?

2. Uhm. He was a kid who thought that the only way he could get a girl to notice him was to be famous. Said girl actually paid more attention to him AFTER he said that, and even strong-armed him into a promise of acting like a 'knight-in-shining-armor". That is nowhere near romantic for me. Cloud could've initiated the promise himself, but he didn't.

Keep in mind that this is my OPINION, MY OWN REASONS for thinking so.

What's the purpose of asking us this btw?

And we're still waiting for the Clerith proofz Quex asked for, btw

And as you can see, none of it seems to suffice for you. None seems to satisfy your standards.

Why are you trying to turn this around on me? Please don't, I've been asking for this for pages now and I think I at least deserve an honest response.

Wait... So you get to ask us for inarguable evidence, but we can't do the same?
Frankly, I've been VERY honest with you here. And since I've been reading that people think Anastar has been dishonest, could I please bother you to point out one which was COMPLETELY dishonest in your opinion?

Okay so are you saying the UO and such is lying or... that you want us to think for ourselves?

The latter.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I feel like I've missed a TON of posts here.

Yeah, it happens.

What was the topic? What were we REALLY debating about?

The canon outcome of the LTD is the subject of the debate. As in, the girl Cloud canonically loves and gets together with. Evidence shows it to be Tifa.

Showing that romance happened between Cloud and Aerith?

That's what the Clerith supporters are supposed to be doing if they can, yes. No dice so far.

Even I say that Anastar's quotes are enough.

No offense, but most of Anastar's quotes are meaningless, or at least have been twisted into pretzels to enable the meaning she wants. The few Clerith quotes that do have some meaning display that Cloud and Aerith COULD HAVE gotten together and that Aerith loved him. None of them so much as hint at Cloud's feelings towards Aerith.

This is what Q asked for, a quote displaying MUTUAL romantic feelings for Clerith. No such quote has been provided.

If it isn't for you, then it's not our problem.

This is not how debates work. I know it isn't one, but it sounds an awful lot like a "we can't convince you and concede" type statement from here.

We can like or support whatever couple we want. It's our rights and our privilege to do so. So why debate on which is CANON? Even if one was said to be canon, would that even stop the other side from liking the pair they want? What, you expect people to jump ship? It just really depends on the person, nothing more.

Whoa there, cool down. I have directly said myself that Clerith is a sweet pairing and you can ship whoever you want. Even if Cloti is canon, you can still love Clerith to bits and do fanarts and post in the clubs and write what-if type fanfics etc. But we are here for the express purpose of debating CANON. So THAT'S WHY WE'RE DOING THAT It'd be nice to see people admit to the canon outcome of the LTD, but even if someone does we do not expect them to "jump ship" and become Cloti fangirls.

TL;DR: What couple you prefer depends on the person, the canon outcome depends on the narrative. Nothing more.

I believe in Aerith loving the REAL Cloud, and Cloud loving Aerith. We've given quotes, but you kept disproving it as romantic. So tell me, what is the difference between us?

Our evidence is not equivalent. Your beliefs about Clerith are all well and good for shipping preferences, but not for determining the canon of a narrative. Your quotes are disproven or simply not equivalent to the Cloti evidence and despite multiple requests no such equivalent evidence can be found to even a SINGLE Cloti proof. That is the difference between us.

What was really shown in the game where CLOUD acted romantically towards TIFA, and not the other way around? Inarguable actions.

The Lifestream sequence's flashbacks, and the HW scene. Mutual, meaning they both felt and acted romantic.

If anyone other than Quex wants to answer this, fine. Be my guest.

Thank you.

 

[Dashell]

We can like or support whatever couple we want. It's our rights and our privilege to do so. So why debate on which is CANON? Even if one was said to be canon, would that even stop the other side from liking the pair they want? What, you expect people to jump ship? It just really depends on the person, nothing more.

FYI I completely agree with this and I think it's a good attitude to have. That's how stories are written. By asking "what if?" and thinking outside the box. So what if something is canon? That doesn't mean you have to like it. You're free to think whatever you want and create your own story ideas.


HOWEVER

in this topic, we are discussing canon, not opinions. This topic is NOT about opinions or who you think makes a cute pairing. This topic is about canon, period. We are discussing canon though the proof of the Compilation, interviews and Ultimania quotes. Do you want to discuss canon with me? If not, I'll drop it. If so, I'd like to pick up where we left off.

 

[Celes Chere]

CR could you give me your opinion on the mutual feelings quote. I've been quite curious and Anastar is the only Clerith that answered. XD

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

1. I simply don't see it as romantic: them being dramatic over not having anyone or anywhere to go home to; them talking about what transpired in the Lifestream event; if the "sex logic" was to be followed, Tifa practically initiated the thought; if we don't follow the "sex logic", then what did they do to reveal mutual feelings? They talked from dusk to dawn. About what? Who in here knows?

Without words. Ergo, while they may have spent part of the night talking, the actual confirmation of romantic feelings is without words. This is spelled out, you cannot argue that. Nor can you realistically argue it as non-romantic when that fact is ALSO SPELLED OUT FOR US. I saw it when I played the game, but just for those who didn't see it or were unsure the Ultimanias (particularly the FTOIL page) bluntly inform us that it is ROMANCE.

2. Uhm. He was a kid who thought that the only way he could get a girl to notice him was to be famous. Said girl actually paid more attention to him AFTER he said that, and even strong-armed him into a promise of acting like a 'knight-in-shining-armor". That is nowhere near romantic for me. Cloud could've initiated the promise himself, but he didn't.

You're kidding me. Now, we're friends and nothing in the LTD is gonna change our other conversations CR, so don't take this wrong. But are you starting in with the Tifa bashing too now? Of course she paid attention to him AFTER he called her out to the well and the promise took place, that was when he FINALLY got up the nerve to GET her attention. And where did she strong arm him into making the promise? The promise which is, years later, still vitally important to him? Her insisting when he hesitated counts as applying force now, does it?

Either way, you admit in the first sentence that he wanted her to notice him. Put all the rest aside and tell me... why did he want her to notice him again? Right, love/crush. And if its ONLY in the past, then why is that still so important to him by the time of FFVII, and even beyond that into ACC?

Keep in mind that this is my OPINION, MY OWN REASONS for thinking so.

And that's all well and good, but opinions do not for canon make.

What's the purpose of asking us this btw?

I can't speak for Q, but I am finding it relevant that thus far you have been unable to actually answer with the requested information. Because, as I have said before, such proof of Clerith does not exist to my knowledge. It pretty neatly drives the point home.

Do you want to discuss canon with me? If not, I'll drop it.

If not, then why are you even in here? Being as it is the entire point of the thread to discuss canon, really. So for me, its: If not, I'll talk to you through VM and not here

 

[Dashell]

As for why I want you to answer, can I get to that later? I want to make a point but I'm afraid if I explain that point now you might not want to answer the questions.

 

[ClerithRaven]

The canon outcome of the LTD is the subject of the debate. As in, the girl Cloud canonically loves and gets together with. Evidence shows it to be Tifa.

And I was not discussing canon. I'm all about preference. So I guess I won't be debating with you anymore?

That's what the Clerith supporters are supposed to be doing if they can, yes. No dice so far.

Uhm. I could say the same.

This is not how debates work. I know it isn't one, but it sounds an awful lot like a "we can't convince you and concede" type statement from here.

You don't seem to be willing to be convinced. So what's the point?

Our evidence is not equivalent. Your beliefs about Clerith are all well and good for shipping preferences, but not for determining the canon of a narrative. Your quotes are disproven or simply not equivalent to the Cloti evidence and despite multiple requests no such equivalent evidence can be found to even a SINGLE Cloti proof. That is the difference between us.

This all boils down to you disproving what we give. And we do the same. That was what I was saying there. Agreed?

What is the canon narrative? That Cloud and Tifa are lovers and in a relationship? Fine. If you believe so.

Quex...

Canon pairing? Then the answer would be: No thank you.
Canon events? Sure, why not?
Canon feelings? Depends.

 

[Makoeyes987]

ClerithRaven, stop giving us opinion and give us objective reasons why Cloud ends up with Aerith.

Do you know why we're "never satisfied?"

Because you never offer evidence or actual narrative/creator input that actually supports your argument. We've got several books, several quotes, and several lines from the creators specifically stating Cloud and Tifa share romantic feelings. The high affection Highwind scene is canon, Tifa is Cloud's "koibito" and that they come to mutually share their feelings for each other.

All you have offered is a side of jack, with spit. We're not convinced because you literally are not offering anything to convince us. You're just playing word games, begging the question, or flat out ignoring anything that's contrary to you.

All you've offered to the table is interpretation, opinion and attempts to disprove the canon material.

We've given you tanigble OBJECTIVE evidence.

Can you honestly not see the difference? The objective story outcome is not up for interpretation. There is no "if you believe so." There's a literal outcome here that you seem to refuse to see.

 

[Dashell]

Well, CR, I appreciate your honesty. I wasn't giving you quotes so you could disprove them though. I wanted to have a debate about the canon pairing. But if you don't want that, then there's no point

oh well, thanks anyway, please do post in other areas of this forum though. I'd be cool to see you around in other areas

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

And I was not discussing canon. I'm all about preference. So I guess I won't be debating with you anymore?

This debate is about canon. If you're not debating canon, but just discussing your preference, there are clubs for that sort of thing. So no, if you're not debating canon you won't be debating me on the matter. There is no NEED to debate PREFERENCES. But don't worry, we still cool and will still talk

Uhm. I could say the same.

Could you? Honestly? Go ahead, tell me that mutual romantic feelings, bloody well CONFIRMED by SE, are something you can disprove.

You don't seem to be willing to be convinced. So what's the point?

If you had something convincing, I'd be convinced. I have no personal stake in Cloti. Hell, I've pointed out that I enjoy a round of Cluffie more than once in this thread. So if you could prove Clerith, I'd accept it. I'm sorry it goes against your preference, but all signs point to Cloti, and since this is a debate about CANON rather than the couple we each individually prefer, I follow those signs.

This all boils down to you disproving what we give. And we do the same. That was what I was saying there. Agreed?

Not agreed. This boils down to your quotes and proofs, such as they are, not being equivalent to the Cloti proofs. As in, you cannot supply a single moment where Cloud is shown to have/stated to show romantic feelings towards Aerith, let alone confirm mutual romantic feelings with her. You can demonstrate potential, you can state opinions, but that does not match up with what amounts to Word of God statements on the matter of Cloti.

So what you give gets disproven, and you say you disprove what we throw into the ring. On that, I'll agree.

What is the canon narrative? That Cloud and Tifa are lovers and in a relationship? Fine. If you believe so. that's what the evidence says

^See how little it would take to make that sentence correct?

Canon pairing? Then the answer would be: No thank you.
Canon events? Sure, why not?

You do realize the canon pairing is part of the canonical events, right?

Canon feelings? Depends.

And that Cloud's canonical feelings for the two girls were the basis for the entire debate in the first place, for that matter?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Did I really just read 2 pages of people saying that SE statements weren't inarguable? Really? WTF, guys? Anyone trying to argue that quotes Q provided somehow aren't romantic when the freaking creators of the series STATE IMPLICITLY that they ARE, GTFO. Seriously, you've gone off some delusional deep end and have no business being in any type of debate.

For the drumming crew--you know who you are, beating that dead horse for a quote: They can't meet that standard, they know it, they'll hide behind 'meh, opinions' and cry bully and swear their interpretation is as valid as Nojima's, so seriously stop. It's getting tiresome to read. They DO NOT HAVE any quote, and you all know it--and they know it. Had there been a quote by SE it would have been splattered all over the moment it was asked for. They don't have equal footing. They never have. It's all about interpretation for them, and they will never, ever understand this thread. Because this thread isn't about Cloti vs Clerith, it's about dissecting and discussing the canon narrative. Yes, shippers can argue this, but honestly they need to check their shipping at the door. It's not about winning or who would have the bestest fairy tale love story. It's about what we're told, what we can determine and the often varied pathways we get to that decision. Not everyone here that sees Cloud x Tifa as canon believes he ever had romantic interest in Aerith and yet some do. That's a variance that's interesting when discussed. Will we all agree on that? Probably never, but we can all agree on the outcome based on what we've been told and the way the material is laid out.

There's a serious misconception about this thread if you think we're debating opinions in here. We're not. And if you are, kindly move along. And if you refuse to accept SOURCE material as evidence, also GTFO because, again, that's ridiculous and foolish.

Having said that, I do enjoy the shitfest of the LTD and some of the interesting arguments, but I think the "quote" horse is good and dead.

However, Q, since you asked for it, here is the only argument they could have in that area: Nojima says: " Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith, but I think there is a great burden from Aerith." There is your optional confirmation that Cloud could have had romantic interest in Aerith. Not that he DID, but he COULD have, and that's what you asked for. So there. Nojima even offering the comparison of things having gone in any direction with Aerith implies that things 'could have' happened, if given the chance. Since your requirements we past/present/future/could be quotes, there you go. One does exist. Does it make Clerith canon? No. Is it even in the same ballpark as the Cloti quotes? Well, it's in the high-rise bleachers....but it's skirting the edges. Is this quote easily overpowered by the fact that Nojima is talking about Cloud and Tifa in the context of marriage in the same interview, you betchya, however; if any of the Cleriths debating here like they own the material knew it half as well as they pretend to, this would have been straight out the gates.

Also, Q, I can play Clerith if you want to have an actual discussion...

 

[Rena]

Now I'm not trying to troll here, but I hope you've read your arguments, then. I don't usually do pairing debates, so I can scarcely believe my eyeballs.

Yes, I’ve read them, but I should’ve thought some people here can’t see past before their nose.

Didn't say you can't dislike her. Actually, I said you can. What I said was not cool, was justifying your dislike for her by creating aspects of her character that aren't true; example: being clingy.

Why can’t I say she’s clingy? That’s seriously, honestly how I see her…oh! And pretty much of a martyr too. But ok, I get it…you love her and your asking me to respect her character and not say rude comments about her. Ok, I can do that.

Oh and wait a second, hold up. Bashing real people? When have I bashed real people? If I recall correctly, not even a few pages ago, someone who was arguing for clerith brought up how they were venting about the people here at a different forum in which the people here cannot even defend themselves. At least here, everything is in the open so if someone is crossing a line, you can call them out and report them and I'd expect that you would do just that.

Did I EVER say you do?!

OMG! Venting people in another forum?! Now you’re gonna tell me Cloti’s are saints and never ever say anything wrong about random Cleriths…once again I never said YOU.

Which arguments are stupid? I believe many people who brought up stupid arguments were called out by other forum goers. For example, I find the argument that paints Aerith and Tifa as moms to Cloud extremely stupid and will argue against it all the time. But seriously, do tell which ones are stupid, I'd like to know.

I don’t want to expose stupid arguments…it will offend the people who post them .

Hun, this is the LTD. Shit can get personal. It may not be intended to end up like that, but it happens. For example, you just got personal by saying how people on 'the other side', assuming you're referring to the 'cloti' side, are always the ones who act childish while 'your side' does not. So uhm, since I'm a cloti fan and shipper, I will take it personally. Not to mention, that is highly untrue.

Honey! Read carefully! I NEVER said it is only Clotis the ones being childish…why is it always about generalization?! Not everything on life is Black or white and there’s wrong and good everywhere. Not only one side or the other.

The squares are even; we have childish and annoying fans everywhere in the FF7 fandom and the LTD isn't an exception.

Talking about extremes.

No one's stopping you from hating a character.

But here's the reality of what you did and the problem with 99% of the LTD: the passive aggressive swipes at the other character as if it would someone illegitimate relationship between two characters. It's the lowest common denominator in any shipping debate and quite frankly, it's just plain annoying.

I wasn’t being passive-aggressive. I was blantly aggressive towards Tifa character.

Especially since you said she was "clingy" when she wasn't, and no, this isn't about "your interpretation." Tifa spent most of her time emotionally propping up Cloud and keeping her family together. In CoT she clearly gave him emotional space to work things out, and when things weren't working things she out she tried to help.

She was willing to stay with him until the proverbial end of days, wiping the drool off his face, because she was trying tohelp him. The difference is that she's not going to hold his hand while he continues to have self destructive habits. That's not being clingy, that's her refusing to enable his bullshit. Hell, even Aerith came back from the lifestream to kick his ass into shape. Tifa said he was a better man than this, and he was. Cloud wasn't happy, not because he didn't want to be in a relationship but because he slipped back into survivor's guilt and confusion, and now he's better with her, and everyone else's help.

Ok, It’s nice to read your point of view about this ‘cause I never saw it this way but you know? Even I can accept a different point of view when it’s reasonable.

I’ve always disliked Tifa for being kind of a masochist but the fact that she won’t keep up with Cloud’s bullshit to the point of damaging of herself (As you just explained) may make me think about it twice.

Well, your strawman arguments are pretty pathetic already.

Thanks for pointing it out! You must be one serious case of supreme intelligence.

It's the 'making shit up to validate the dislike' that's wrong. That's what you've been doing.

When did I do that exactly?

Oh, no, we're fine with hate. We just tend to prefer hating on people and characters for what they've done.

Read the above.

Examples and explanations, please.

Your whole explanation about the “WE” and not “I” is an example.

One tends to get offended when ones arguments are ignored, twisted, quote mined, and generally treated with unabashed dishonesty.

Why bother with someone so twisted, quote minded and dishonest?

If it’s like you say and you’re absolutely sure of your perspective why let it get to you.

 

[Marle]

Okay, so first of all, I want to make one thing clear: Rena, I am not trying to attack you personally, especially over a shipping preference. I realize you're getting worked up and I apologize if what I've said has gotten under your skin. Now, besides my better judgement, I'm going to reply to you and I will be as understanding as possible.

Why can’t I say she’s clingy? That’s seriously, honestly how I see her…oh! And pretty much of a martyr too. But ok, I get it…you love her and your asking me to respect her character and not say rude comments about her. Ok, I can do that.

I'm going to bold that part because you continue to bash her in the same post. You sort of missed my point so I'm going to try again.

There are a few people here who dislike Aerith's character for a number of reasons. But there are also many people here who like her, including myself. Those few people refrain from bashing her and providing their opinions as justifiable reasons to why they dislike her. Why? Because they have respect for the people who do like her and see it as pointless to discuss their dislike in regards to a character when it is simply not necessary. Especially in a debate regarding canon, not opinion.

I think Splintered said this very accurately, so I'm going to quote her on it:

But here's the reality of what you did and the problem with 99% of the LTD: the passive aggressive swipes at the other character as if it would someone illegitimate relationship between two characters. It's the lowest common denominator in any shipping debate and quite frankly, it's just plain annoying.

Did I EVER say you do?!

OMG! Venting people in another forum?! Now you’re gonna tell me Cloti’s are saints and never ever say anything wrong about random Cleriths…once again I never said YOU.

You generalized so in a way, yeah you kind of did:

I may be now, yes ‘cause most of you seem to take things quiet personal when you don’t like what you read and you DO get personal, bless my heart it does cause a reaction, however it’s funny how it is always the other side the ones been childish and never the other way round.

If you'd like to retract that comment or clear it up, I will gladly let it go. But you did generalize and seeing as how I fall under the 'other side' notion, you were discussing me as well.

Also, I never said all Clotis were saints; I believe I said it was even on both sides, meaning cray crays everywhere, including cloti. But you have a point; I shouldn't have brought that up and I can admit that it was wrong. I was trying to prove a point the only way I knew how, but it still doesn't make it correct. I apologize.

I don’t want to expose stupid arguments…it will offend the people who post them .

Not if their argument is actually stupid, you won't. I gave you an example of what a stupid argument is. I have called it out on people. The argument is rarely ever seen these days because it's generally conceded that Aerith nor Tifa are like 'mothers' to Cloud. So if the argument is actually stupid, you have every valid reason to point it out and, as a matter of fact, I would like to think you would in a debate.

Honey! Read carefully! I NEVER said it is only Clotis the ones being childish…why is it always about generalization?! Not everything on life is Black or white and there’s wrong and good everywhere. Not only one side or the other.

I can read fine. Being a fourth year university student and riding through scholarships sort of requires highly regarded reading skills, I can assure you. And I'll quote it again so that you can see why I saw it the way I did. Now, if that's not how you meant it, then I'll gladly await you clearing it up but as it stands, it is still a generalization and an insult.

I may be now, yes ‘cause most of you seem to take things quiet personal when you don’t like what you read and you DO get personal, bless my heart it does cause a reaction, however it’s funny how it is always the other side the ones been childish and never the other way round.

Talking about extremes.

So saying that both sides have batshit insane rabids is an extreme? I'm sure you've met many cray cray clotis and I can attest to the fact that I've met many cray cray cleriths AND clotis. I've also had the pleasure to meet fantastic people on BOTH sides. Many of them come to this forum.

I wasn’t being passive-aggressive. I was blantly aggressive towards Tifa character.

That's fine and dandy, but being aggressive towards Tifa's character in an LTD thread is rather pointless seeing as how it proves next to nothing but the fact that you genuinely dislike her.

That's all I'm saying on this drama because if this keeps up, the Mods will ban me and this is so not worth being banned for.

Feel free to PM or VM me, Rena, if you still have a problem.

 

[ClerithRaven]

Raven, honey, both our sides do some bashing on Aerith and Tifa's character. :p
Just saying.
And if you don't wanna get banned, all you have to do is avoid doing things that would get you banned.
Though I'm not really sure what to avoid myself.

GLD, you've made a habit of "correcting" people's post. I for one, don't really like it? Idk. It just seems like you're saying we're so wrong. That's just me though.

And it seems we're on equivalences... Tell me then, because I don't really want to JUST rely on the Ultimanias or whatever book SE published, those specific actions that support CxT where CxA scenes don't even match up.

We've given you quotes, and you deem it... what's the word? Lacking. So now, I'm asking for specific actions that in no way can be seen other than as "romantic".

Btw, who's still up for disproving quotes on Cloud and Aerith having a possible romance while she was alive?

 

[Marle]

Raven, honey, both our sides do some bashing on Aerith and Tifa's character. :p
Just saying.

That still doesn't justify it happening. I'm disappointed that you think it does. :\ I, for one, don't bash Aerith. I also don't bash Snow and I don't even like him. Am I asking for too much when I say others should do the same? It's a matter of respect and common courtesy, not something inevitable.

 

[Tina Armstrong]

Tifa practically initiated the thought; if we don't follow the "sex logic", then what did they do to reveal mutual feelings? They talked from dusk to dawn. About what? Who in here knows?

But they revealed their feelings without using words. And that is what Tifa suggests with her comment. :o

Cloud could've initiated the promise himself, but he didn't.

Cloud kept the promise in his memory. He always will.

And as you can see, none of it seems to suffice for you. None seems to satisfy your standards.

Example:
"Cloud and Aerith realized their feelings for each other."
That would do it. For all of us, I think. We already have this for Cloud and Tifa, but not for Cloud and Aerith.

I'm not denying that Cloud and Aerith had some attraction and chemistry. They also shared a special bond. C/A had potential, sure. That's why I love them so much together. But they knew each other for like.. two weeks? Where in the game did they have time to reveal their feelings for each other?

....

Exactly, they never did. Not what we know of. The only feelings we know for sure Cloud have for Aerith are these; undying feelings.

Btw, who's still up for disproving quotes on Cloud and Aerith having a possible romance while she was alive?

Well, I think my opinions about that in this post sums it up pretty well already.