Because this thread is, just like the world, quite mad. The LTD is a true tribute to madness.I don't understand why I was the only one outraged by the "Cloud never shows concern for Tifa" thing...
I mean I usually don't get upset at all in this thread... and then I freak out and no one else does... what's with you people?
I don't understand why I was the only one outraged by the "Cloud never shows concern for Tifa" thing...
I mean I usually don't get upset at all in this thread... and then I freak out and no one else does... what's with you people?
I don't understand why I was the only one outraged by the "Cloud never shows concern for Tifa" thing...
I mean I usually don't get upset at all in this thread... and then I freak out and no one else does... what's with you people?
It's such a confounding, terrible view of Cloud's character and all the themes that appear (at least in Advent Children), I actually pressed the backspace button harder than I could ever press the reply.I don't understand why I was the only one outraged by the "Cloud never shows concern for Tifa" thing...
I mean I usually don't get upset at all in this thread... and then I freak out and no one else does... what's with you people?
An hour later, I think this post was kind of mean... but I stand by the spirit of it. Cloud's "hey I want monies" was just a deflection of why he was staying in Avalanche, because he cared for Tifa. Because she appealed to their relationship- one that was remembered with faulty fondness but one that still meant the world to him. And him going and risking his neck for Aerith was also special considering he just met her, and that he wanted specifically to keep her safe because they shared a connection.
Saying Cloud is aloof and is too cool to care about anything is a joke. It's a joke because the game goes to lengths to show how that persona of Cloud is fake. That Cloud always was hypersensitive to those around to him so much it built a wall around him, and not the kind we saw in the beginning of the game- the fake "i don't care about anything" wall that was a mixture of his admiration of Zack and the influence of Jenova.
We know that Aerith helped crack that shell, yes. But we also know it was Tifa that healed his mind.
I don't think Cloud loving Aerith makes him a douche or evil. But Cloud not caring about anything but Aerith is. Cloud's entire life hinging on just what Aerith does in the beginning part of the game... is just no. Even as a mentally damaged, insular, socially inept character like him had relationships, Aerith and Tifa are both close to him. He would have gone to lengths to save both
Admitting that doesn't diminish Cloud and Aerith's relationship. But saying that he would only go to those lengths for Aerith diminishes Cloud's character.
This is an embarrassment of a debate. Cloud didn't care about Tifa, good god who thinks of this shit. And it's sad because I think a lot of the reactions towards some of BB's arguments are over dramatic and he brings up some good points. Then someone drags this out.
I don't understand why I was the only one outraged by the "Cloud never shows concern for Tifa" thing...
I mean I usually don't get upset at all in this thread... and then I freak out and no one else does... what's with you people?
Assuming we haven't all been on the receiving end of the longest trolling ever, the dude is one seriously persistent mofo.
“Cloti is indeed, Canon”
— Yoshinori Kitase
"Clerith’s love is eternal."
— Tetsuya Nomura
“What the fuck Nomura-san, I got here first”
— Yoshinori Kitase
"WHAT I SAY GOES EVERYONE LIKES ME MORE"
— Tetsuya Nomura
The two directors are presently settling the matter through a slapfight in the break room.
[ Source: Ultimania VII-XL Special Supremo 15yr Argument Edition ]
Yeah, I do have to give BlankBeat props for patience, now you mention it. Assuming we haven't all been on the receiving end of the longest trolling ever, the dude is one seriously persistent mofo.
Quex,No.. just... just no, my god did you PLAY the game? He expressed concern for her in Nibelheim, and whether you like it or not, he expresses concern for her when she went to see the Don, and as I said before, he went to The Forgotten City for a reason and according to the script, it wasn't Aerith. ... ugh I haven't played the game in so long but I know there's others... and uhm again is this JUST FFVII or can we go into other compilation titles?
god
fuck it
just posts like that really piss me off. How dare you say Cloud NEVER expresses concern for Tifa. He expresses concern for OTHER people as well, just fucking stop trying to make Aerith be the only one he cares about... it's just disgusting at this point
Not quiet.Oh and your "Nomura doesn't know" quote?... well in another magazine AFTER he said that Nomura says AC firmly grasps Tifa and Cloud's relationship... so he obviously DOES know
Your "doesn't know" quote is now null and void
This is what proves Cloud's reaction to Aerith's death stems from his love for her:Oh you didn't really show or say that. You just showed a animated gif of Cloud grieving over Aerith's dead body and said " If this doesn't prove that Clerith is canon I don't know what is " Which made it look like you believe that grieving equals true love. I'm glad that's not the case BB because to be honest that sort of concerned me.
Nomura talks about *AVOIDING* the cliche' where the, "protagonist loves someone very much and has to sacrifice himself and die in a dramatic fashion to express that love." So how did they avoid the cliche'? Instead of having the protagonist die, they had the person the protagonist was in love with die."Back at the time we were designing the game, I was frustrated with the perennial cliche where the protagonist loves someone very much and has to sacrifice himself and die in a dramatic fashion to express that love. We found this was the case in both games and movies, both eastern and western. But I wanted to say something different, something realistic. I mean, is it right to set such an example to people?"
Kitase wanted to express, through Aerith's death, what it feels like when you lose someone that you, "LOVED VERY MUCH". Then, he releates it directly to Cloud by saying sometimes people think, "If I had known this was coming I would have done things differently". It is obvious that Cloud's love for Aerith and her death was meant to highlight exactly what Kitase wanted to convey."In the real world, things are very different. You just need to look around you. Nobody wants to die that way. People die of disease and accident. Death comes suddenly and there is no notion of good or bad attached to it. It leaves, not a dramatic feeling, but a feeling of emptiness. When you lose someone you loved very much you feel this big empty space and think 'If I had known this was coming I would have done things differently.' These are the feelings I wanted to arouse in the players with Aerith's death relatively early in the game. Feelings of reality and not Hollywood."
We adore the prediction because SE says it becomes "more painful" after Aerith's death. The only way it can become more painful is if there was a mutual romance that could have led to the prediction coming true.I don't why Cleriths really love and adore this whole prediction thing and use it as proofs for their ship because Cait Sith was really unreliable. In the Gold Saucer it took him about five tries to get a decent prediction. Plus he has a prediction about a wedding but also a prediction that Cloud's summer is going to be a awesome one, judging by what occurs through out Final Fantasy VII i don't think that Cloud had a awesome summer
So to sum up, at that point Cloud decided he didn't give a shit about Tifa and was more concerned about Aerith who he had only met about 3 hours before? Are you serious.In fact, this is what I said prior to that post: "There are plenty of example that show us Cloud cares for Tifa. But did Cloud rescue Tifa from Don's mansion because Cloud was wavering towards Tifa? Sadly, I think Cloud was still wavering towards Aerith at that point because the script tells us so. Cloud only went inside Don's mansion because he didn't want Aerith to go alone."
So...everyone's rants about how Cloud has shown care for Tifa are irrelevant because I agree with you guys. I was talking about one scene in particular.
1. Cloud did not have all of his memories associated with Tifa yet.So to sum up, at that point Cloud decided he didn't give a shit about Tifa and was more concerned about Aerith who he had only met about 3 hours before? Are you serious.
Look at the script.Cloud WAS in the process of thinking of a way to get into Don Corneos mansion WITHOUT endangering Aerith or Tifa further. Aerith just came up with a fast solution that he would never of thought of himself. Do you really believe that Cloud wouldn't have tried to rescue Tifa? That he would have just given up?
...but Cloud only thought of "busting in" when Aerith asked him to go with her.If Aerith hadn't come up with the crossdressing idea then Cloud would probably have decided to send her some place safe while he busted in there.
As I've stated before...Don't you see how bizarre the story becomes when you constantly view it through a prism of Cloud/Aerith?
Cloud is clearly trying to think of a way. EDIT: You assume that there were only 2 options 1) Bust on in there 2) Allow Aerith to go in alone.Aerith "Hey, this looks like the Don's mansion. I'll go take a look." "I'll tell Tifa about you."
Cloud "No!! You can't!!"
Aerith "Why?"
Cloud "You DO know... what kind of... place this is, don't you?"
Aerith "Then, what am I supposed to do? You want to go in with me?"
Cloud "Well being a man, that'll be pretty hard. Besides if I bust in there, it'll cause too much commotion." (Aerith is giggling.)
Cloud "But, I just can't let you go in alone... Oh, man......" "First, we'll need to find out if Tifa's alright...." "What's so funny, Aerith?"
Aerith "Cloud, why don't you dress up like a girl? It's the only way."
Cloud "WHAT!?" (Aerith speaks to the doorman.)
Aerith "Just wait. I've got a cute friend I want to bring."
Cloud "Aerith! I can't....."
Aerith "You ARE worried about Tifa, aren't you? Then come on, hurry!"
[Sequence of events follows, in which Cloud gets various feminine items.]
...because he said he didn't want Aerith to go alone?If Cloud didn't care about Tifa, why did he go along with the crossdressing plan?
Elmyra said (in-front of Cloud) that once Aerith has made up her mind, there is no point in trying to convince her otherwise.If all Cloud cared about was Aerith he would have kept her out of there. No point in risking her safety for Tifa's sake.
After Cloud agreed to go in Don's mansion because Aerith asked him to and because he was worried for her safety, he agrees that the next course of action is to see if Tifa is alright.Uh, BlankBeat, your trying to prove Cloud is unconcerned for Tifa isn't gonna work. Even if he wasn't the first to suggest a doable way in, there are two quotes from THE SCRIPT(same one your trying to use to prove he doesn't care) where Cloud expresses concern for Tifa's safety. One Octo just posted, another while he examines nasty panties in prep for the infiltration.
Cloud did the Mako reactors for money.I think I've reached a dead end here. I'm expected to believe that Cloud who is currently assuming the persona SOLDIER Zack, would not have been able to infiltrate the Don's Mansion, even though he'd previously infiltrated 2 high security Mako reactors?
But Cloud only thought of ways to get in after Aerith asked him to go with her.Aerith just came up with the fastest solution, however unconventional. Aerith never had to go into the place in the first instance! She could have just gone home or somewhere else safe.
BlankBeat said:So of course he's going to say, "...well, if it's to save Tifa..." -- that's the plan he agreed to because of his desire to keep Aerith safe.