The most annoying fandom assumptions that make no sense and won't die.

[OWA-2]

I think you've missed the point. Like Ryushikaze said, your logic is based on something that is deliberately present in the game to encourage replay value. Ryushikaze hit the nail on the head with the whole New Game+ argument. Part of WEAPON-D mode is where you have to rescue comrades who have been trapped in another dimension. Would you consider that the normal rescue mode is not there canon either because there is replay value to it and characters can be repeatedly detained by AVALANCHE? I understand what you're getting at, but what I don't get is why it's an issue. I don't particularly think it's canon either, but it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on any other aspect of my FFVII experience and I don't believe it should affect anyone else's.

But, that's just my opinion.

It's not an issue to me either. I'm just curious about the story of the Compilation.

And yeah, you have a good point. Weapon-D Mode can be canon.

 

[S and G]

It's not an issue to me either. I'm just curious about the story of the Compilation.

And yeah, you have a good point. Weapon-D Mode can be canon.

I think we've all learned something today...

*Cue melancholy South Park reflective music*

Much like Cait Sith's accent, SND, virus-spreading aliens, Rufus' BC haircut, Christopher, AC's motorbike physics, Red XIII's lifespan, the Gold Saucer's rapid construction, Heidegger's laugh, the purpose of competing against the Invincible Teioh, mistranslations that resulted in Tseng's death, Deepground's existence, Last Order's wrongful storytelling, Shalua only being about 12% human by the end and pretty much anything else that occurs in the FFVII universe...

...we may have to take this one at face value...

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Is it really reasonable to object that SE didn't work more about AVALANCHE prior to the events of FFVII into the original game? I'm guessing it [BC] was only developed in such detail subsequently, when the (surprising?) popularity of the Turks made SE decide to give them their own game in which they would be slightly nicer people. It also goes some way towards the rehabilitation of Reno (did they expect him to be so popular?) - when one considers that, accrding to BC, he's spent years fighting an organisation that came within a hair's-breadth of annihilating all life on earth, dropping the plate on Sector 7 to eliminate that organisation doesn't seem like quite such a cold-bloodedly bastardly thing to do. Soooo, anyway, when creating BC, SE had to slot the new piece of the puzzle into the existing shape of FFVII.
No doubt the Ultimania says that I'm completely wrong about this. Bring it on!

 

[Tennyo]

But...they don't. . The only mention of the previous AVALANCHE comes from Barret and him admitting that he didn't create it. Every other grievance about AVALANCHE from anyone else is in relevance to the current AVALANCHE.

The way I see it, Avalanche is Avalanche is, well, Avalanche. People talk about what they are doing now, sure, but that's because they are active again now. Most people probably don't even realize this is a separate group, aside from maybe a few in Sector 7 who probably all sympathize with then anyway if they do know. And that's making an assumption, they may not even know.

By saying that Avalanche is blowing up the reactors, do they really need to clarify, "Oh, this isn't the same group as before, it's just a new group with the same name," or even mention that it is the same group as before? It's just Avalanche, regardless of who is in it. They say Avalanche, people probably assume that it is the same group as before come back from hiding.

I mean, if Al-Qaeda when dormant for several years then suddenly came back with new members, the majority of us wouldn't need to be told who they are again. Same goes for the populace of Midgar/FFVII. I'm sure they remember and just don't care enough to differentiate, or even know enough to do so.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

No I mean, the difference between that and your example, is whether or not that people know its the same AVALANCHE or not isn't really a concern. The funny thing is how none of the previous attacks by their entire armies on major population centers is never mentioned ever.

I mean, if Al-Qaeda when dormant for several years then suddenly came back with new members, the majority of us wouldn't need to be told who they are again

"It's like 9/11 all over again!"

9/11, like the Mako Reactor is one thing that got blown up. One thing, and it's STILL being talked about. What if Al-Qaeda invaded New York en masse? It would be mentioned every day for decades.

 

[Tennyo]

Oh I get what you're saying now. Sorry I guess I didn't quite understand.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

It's one of those things that could easily be fixed with a remake, so it's not a plot hole or a big deal or anything, but it is an imperfection created by the Compilation.

 

[Tennyo]

Very true. Just because nobody says anything to the party doesn't mean they don't know about it. But it would be a fun thing to add.

I think of the radio Tifa was listening to at the beginning of ACC. Such a small thing, but I feel like it added so much!

 

[ForceStealer]

By saying that Avalanche is blowing up the reactors, do they really need to clarify, "Oh, this isn't the same group as before, it's just a new group with the same name," or even mention that it is the same group as before? It's just Avalanche, regardless of who is in it.

Well...Shinra may have for the sake of their reputations. They likely would have noted that they DID crush AVALANCHE and that this is just a copycat group.

 

[minimosey]

That Zack is the Man in the Pipe. Bitch is dead, let it go. The character models even have different eye colours.

This one has always bothered me, because...what would it say about Aerith, that she can see her lost love in Cloud but not when he's actually in front of her?

Cloud wasn't any different before and after the lifestream event.

I think this is a bit confusing for players because the group accepts him back easily after all that's happened, and he becomes the party leader again. That's a pretty high level of trust and seems odd if he became a radically different person. He certainly behaved differently, though, especially because he was more aware of himself.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

I've just met someone who is convinced that Lucrecia tried to kill herself while pregnant with the intention of killing Sephiroth, and that the reason why Vincent told her Sephiroth was dead is because the thought of Sephiroth being dead would make her happy. She also believes Jenova is Sephiroth's real mother, Jenova used Sephiroth and drove him into madness, and that Sephiroth is not human in FF7.

http://indre666.deviantart.com/art/Lucrecia-and-Jenova-98214455

How does anyone come up with this stuff?

 

[Cthulhu]

and that Sephiroth is not human in FF7.

That's actually true for the majority of the game.

 

[Smaddy]

I've just met someone who is convinced that Lucrecia tried to kill herself while pregnant with the intention of killing Sephiroth, and that the reason why Vincent told her Sephiroth was dead is because the thought of Sephiroth being dead would make her happy. She also believes Jenova is Sephiroth's real mother, Jenova used Sephiroth and drove him into madness, and that Sephiroth is not human in FF7.

http://indre666.deviantart.com/art/Lucrecia-and-Jenova-98214455

How does anyone come up with this stuff?

I read that convo... holy misinformation Batman! I don't know where some people get their information from.

The real topper is when she says that Jenova is Sephiroth's real mother.

The sad thing is, most people like that would prefer to stay misinformed and try to put down anyone just trying to help them.

 

[Cthulhu]

Actually, wipe your mind and replay the game without paying too much attention to the story - you'd come to the same conclusions. Not everyone reads up on things and etc, .

 

[Kikyou]

The real topper is when she says that Jenova is Sephiroth's real mother.

She isn't the only one who still believes this. :/

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

That's actually true for the majority of the game.

Well, the image of Sephiroth that we see isn't the human Sephiroth, but assuming that extension of Jenova is being controlled by Sephiroth's mind/will/motivations—the Sephiroth that is in the Northern Crater—would you say that Sephiroth is no longer human? I don't care to argue either way, which is why I told her it was debatable, especially in the context of his motivations. It's not like it was a discussion of his physical abilities or something, where I would be much more likely to accept the statement "he's not human so he's not bound by the same rules as humans." But as far as the psychology of his mind is concerned, I would be less willing to just say "well he's not a human so he doesn't have to think like a human."

Furthermore, as far as Lucrecia is concerned about her son, he is very much human. So even if Sephiroth were no longer "human" post-Nibelheim and no longer bound by the psychology of humans, I don't think that would matter to Lucrecia. At least in the sense that it wouldn't excuse his actions or her responsibility for his fate.

Actually, wipe your mind and replay the game without paying too much attention to the story - you'd come to the same conclusions. Not everyone reads up on things and etc, .

But the sad thing is that she has "read up" on it. =( I'm thinking that maybe she's one of those "fans" who have only read up on it and never actually played the games.

Thinking that Lucrecia tried to kill herself to destroy the unborn Sephiroth just boggles my mind any way you slice it. I don't see where that's ever implied at all.

 

[Smaddy]

I could understand where somebody might think Jenova is Sephiroth's real mother-
- They state it many times throughout the game.
- Vincent is optional; many people don't recruit him (often because Lost Number is such a pain to fight); if you don't recruit him, you never learn the true story.

But I don't understand why someone would think Lucrecia tried to kill herself in order to destroy Sephiroth. I suppose you could come to that conclusion, but there is no evidence to back it up.

 

[Loxetta]

- Vincent is optional; many people don't recruit him (often because Lost Number is such a pain to fight); if you don't recruit him, you never learn the true story.

Now that you mention it -- does anyone else think it was really retarded for Sqex to make it this way? I can understand Vincent being optional, but they should have made the stuff about Lucrecia come out into the open even if Vin never joined the party. It's not exactly unimportant information.

More on topic: I think the only misinterpretation that pisses me off is when people claim Cloud is emo just because he was depressed in AC/C. Srsly, show me ANYBODY that wouldn't be depressed after the amount of hell that kid went though.

 

[Smaddy]

Now that you mention it -- does anyone else think it was really retarded for Sqex to make it this way? I can understand Vincent being optional, but they should have made the stuff about Lucrecia come out into the open even if Vin never joined the party. It's not exactly unimportant information.

I've always thought that too. It's extremely important information. It's like a secret within a secret- first you have to go through the trouble to figure out how to obtain Vincent (which, without a guide could be quite difficult) and then you need to find Lucrecia in that cave, which is pretty hidden in itself. To this day, I have people arguing with me, saying you can't dock the Submarine in that lake. So even something as trivial as that could hold you back from finding the cave.

Maybe they did it on purpose, to make it a mystery? I don't know. But if you never find that bit of the story, it's a very different game, and you're left with a misconception.

More on topic: I think the only misinterpretation that pisses me off is when people claim Cloud is emo just because he was depressed in AC/C. Srsly, show me ANYBODY that wouldn't be depressed after the amount of hell that kid went though.

Yeah. I couldn't imagine seeing a friend/traveling companion/ potential love interest

Spoiler

be murdered before my eyes, not to mention right before the murder, losing control of my body and trying to kill her myself.

Plus the thing that triggered her being put in that position was his fault

Spoiler

giving the Black Materia to Seph, then proceeding to beat her up

...

I think they retconned a little on his personality, but then again you could say that after things calmed down, he had time to think and reality set in really hard on him.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Did you seriously just spoiler tag Aerith's death? Holy shit dude, that's like

Spoiler

DARTH VADER IS LUKE'S FATHER OMG!!1

The thing is, they all went through some amount of hell and Cloud's the one having such a hard time moving on that he's damaging those around him. It's the fact that he's not just brooding, but he's having a negative effect on those around him. It's selfish.

But I don't understand why someone would think Lucrecia tried to kill herself in order to destroy Sephiroth. I suppose you could come to that conclusion, but there is no evidence to back it up.

Not only is there no evidence to back it up, nor any implications that it was ever the case, but there is evidence that explicitly says she tried to kill herself after Sephiroth was born. Not to mention DoC.

I don't care if it's hidden. It's stupid to try to argue the particulars of an event you never played/guide you never read/movie you never watched/etc., period.


...The smart ads are giving me stuff about unplanned pregnancy and ultrasounds, lawl.

 

[Smaddy]

Spoiler

No

I didn't spoiler-tag Aeris' death. Force of habit? Guess I'm just too

Spoiler

nice

.

I agree that it's dumb to even say that about Lucrecia trying to kill herself, and yes maybe people shouldn't argue points about things they haven't read/seen/played, but does that stop them from doing so anyway? No... idiotic assumptions are part of what makes the internet go 'round.

I could fill a book with silly, crazy assumptions from people who haven't even played FF7, let alone found the secrets within it. People who are asking for a prequel to DOC starring Cloud. People asking what "meteorfall" is.

 

[Dashell]

Sorry if this has been talked about but I hate the assumption that Sephiroth wasn't even trying in AC/C. Someone left this comment on one of my youtube vids:

You know, it is pretty retarded that the good guy always wins in stuff like this. Even Tetsuya Nomura confirmed that at no point in Advent Children did Sephiroth even remotely try. He basically let himself lose. I guess they had to bullshit that to have a legit excuse for Cloud winning.

Don't you just love it when people make up their own Nomura quotes?

Also yeah... stabbing Cloud 8 times... if you don't stab someone at least 9 times you aren't even trying, everyone knows that.

 

[Eerie]

I've never heard about this one, wow... I mean, Sephiroth not even trying? He sure looked like he tried to me o___o' But then again, YT might be the most retarded place when it comes to comments.

As for Cloud, I'll admit that AC really did a lot of damage to his personality. IMHO, they only realized this after, when they saw the fans' reactions, and that's why they explained a lot of things in ACC and fleshed him out way more. Which was a good thing, but yeah, it was too late for a lot of people who only painted him as 'emo' afterwards - especially those who discovered the FF7 universe with AC. >_<

 

[Cthulhu]

Also yeah... stabbing Cloud 8 times... if you don't stab someone at least 9 times you aren't even trying, everyone knows that.

Also yeah... that was only added in ACC, everyone knows that. The quote which supposedly quotes Nomura refers to AC, which isn't ACC .

 

[Dashell]

Wait so there was actually a quote that said that?... thought he just made it up XD
where is said quote?

Also srsly, what on earth does Sephiroth have to do to prove he's trying?