The most annoying fandom assumptions that make no sense and won't die.

[Gale]

All of the reasons listed are why Scarlet was one of my favorite FF7 characters, along with most of the Shinra executives. Sure, a vicious super-soldier with a god-complex summoning a meteor to destroy the planet is pretty bad, but somehow it didn't feel as filthy as saving Avalanche at the Northern Crater to execute them on live tv for publicity later.

 

[Tennyo]

I believe the term, "Love to hate," is relevant here. Scarlet is such a bitch, but that's what makes her endearing.

 

[Smaddy]

Found another~

Thats because Square never finished the story line, Aerith was supposed to have been revived... yea a lot was left out to meet a deadline

Yep, because of deadlines they baleeted that magic wand to revive Aerith.

 

[ForceStealer]

What I never understood about that one was, even if it were true, would it make you feel any better? I would think it would make you feel worse...

 

[Tennyo]

Reviving Aerith would take away the meaning of her character and cheapen her death. She'd just be a walking cliche.

 

[ForceStealer]

That's not what I mean. I always saw the reviving Aeris rumors coming from two sources: fanboys who wanted to keep up hope that there was a way, and the Internet that wanted to trick fanboys into doing tedious, meaningless tasks.

But THAT rumor did neither. So I never understood why it originated.

 

[Smaddy]

Reviving Aerith would take away the meaning of her character and cheapen her death. She'd just be a walking cliche.

They pretty much gave the fankids what they wanted anyhow, with AC. She wasn't literally/actually revived, but it was pretty darn close, when you looked at it from an audience standpoint (as opposed to the characters' standpoint of not actually seeing her). I thought what they did in AC borderlined on cheapening her death. They made her actual death very realistic. In AC it was like "I've been dead 2 years but lookit I can has all these weirdo supernatural powerz~!"

Say what you will, but Square really did an effective job on Aerith's death. I think some fankids fail to realize, the point is, she's supposed to die, it's supposed to upset you as a player. So I guess in a roundabout way, they're justified to feel like she should be able to come back. But it's pretty obvious, she's dead.

 

[S and G]

They pretty much gave the fankids what they wanted anyhow, with AC. She wasn't literally/actually revived, but it was pretty darn close, when you looked at it from an audience standpoint (as opposed to the characters' standpoint of not actually seeing her). I thought what they did in AC borderlined on cheapening her death. They made her actual death very realistic. In AC it was like "I've been dead 2 years but lookit I can has all these weirdo supernatural powerz~!"

Say what you will, but Square really did an effective job on Aerith's death. I think some fankids fail to realize, the point is, she's supposed to die, it's supposed to upset you as a player. So I guess in a roundabout way, they're justified to feel like she should be able to come back. But it's pretty obvious, she's dead.

And then Gameshark came along and fucked up everything...

 

[Makoeyes987]

Here's a fun one that fans ignorant of the Compilation say.

"The Compilation retcons everything."

True there are a few, but they are not nearly as numerous as some people bitch about.

In particular, the one that always is annoying is how the CC depiction of the Nibelheim Incident somehow ruins or changes the original in FFVII, when it doesn't change anything. The stuff that we see that's new in CC, was never shown in FFVII at all. It was expanded, not changed or contradicted.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

However, it does sort of cheapen a few things that there are so many AVALANCHE/Genesis clones/WEAPON attacks in major population centers in the past that the Compilation introduced, and nobody talks about it in the main FF7 game at all, that gives some of it a 'Villain of the Week' sort of impression.

 

[Makoeyes987]

However, it does sort of cheapen a few things that there are so many AVALANCHE/Genesis clones/WEAPON attacks in major population centers in the past that the Compilation introduced, and nobody talks about it in the main FF7 game at all, that gives some of it a 'Villain of the Week' sort of impression.

AVALANCHE was mentioned in the original FFVII as having existed before and raised a lot of hell for Shinra and people in the past. As for Genesis Copies, no one would really know who they were, or tell them apart from the other AVALANCHE terrorists who were terrorizing the populous at that time. Remember, Before Crisis and Crisis Core occur at the same time. Most people probably thought of it as more of AVALANCHE's attacks, especially with Shinra's propaganda machine at work.

I'm..not sure what WEAPON attacks you're talking about though, dude. If you're talking about Jade WEAPON, Jade never attacked anyone else but the Turks. It didn't attack any of the cities or people except those who killed Zirconaide.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

AVALANCHE was mentioned in the original FFVII as having existed before and raised a lot of hell for Shinra and people in the past.

Really? I'm curious as to this one, dude. That would be some interesting stuff, where is it?

As for Genesis Copies, no one would really know who they were, or tell them apart from the other AVALANCHE terrorists who were terrorizing the populous at that time. Remember, Before Crisis and Crisis Core occur at the same time. Most people probably thought of it as more of AVALANCHE's attacks, especially with Shinra's propaganda machine at work.

Even assuming that this is true that that people in Midgar and Junon really are absentminded to not notice an invading force with most of them having an extremely popular public figures hair and face, you still would figure that someone, if not many people, would bring up all of these battles in their urban centers.

People today are still talking about 9/11, and after events such as WWII, people in Stalingrad, Berlin, Kiev, scars of the battle, physical and mental dominated people's minds and conversation for years. People in FF7 don't really say shit about it. And you can cover up why a battle happened, the antagonists, and the details, but you can't hide or cover up a battle itself, so that's out of the question.

I'm..not sure what WEAPON attacks you're talking about though, dude.

Didn't the Turks fight Jade WEAPON in Midgar? Or was it Zirconaide? Either way, I know the Turks had SOME huge battle with SOMETHING in Midgar.

EDIT: So it had to have been Zirconaide. Even so, wouldn't people notice a huge monster jet flying around? People sure noticed Doom Gaze in FF6.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Barret mentions it, as well as a few NPCs in Cosmo Canyon and around Midgar. It's also stated in the Ultimania Omega how Barret's "New" AVALANCHE was inspired by the older one. Barret talks about said inspiration as well. The original founder of AVALANCHE who fought Shinra started the group in Cosmo Canyon.

*The anti-Shin-Ra organization*
One who participated in the Study of Planet Life began to question the conduct
of Shin-Ra due to their use of the Planet's Spirit Energy as mako. To protect
the life of the Planet, they began anti-Shin-Ra activites in various places.
Extreme conduct would follow on their part, and the explanation of Shin-Ra's
faults that they offered held that the life of the Planet was more valuable
than that of humans.

(Accompanying screenshot caption 1)
The anti-Shin-Ra organization AVALANCHE -- whose activites were aimed to
disrupt Midgar -- had the power to serve as an obstacle to Shin-Ra.

(Accompanying screenshot caption 2)
The AVALANCHE seen in the game was the new AVALANCHE, of which Barret was the
leader. Their base was the Seventh Heaven bar in the slums of Sector 7.

Suffice to say, Shinra had been dealing with this threat before, and they raised hell. Even better than Barret.

Even assuming that this is true that that people in Midgar and Junon really are absentminded to not notice an invading force with most of them having an extremely popular public figures hair and face, you still would figure that someone, if not many people, would bring up all of these battles in their urban centers.

LOL. Well, remember that most Genesis Copies wear masks, dude. The only ones that don't are the specialty ones like the G-Gunners, and G-Paladins. The grunts of the Genesis Army usually wear masks. And the freaky ones, usually are so ugly and disfigured that they don't even look like Genesis at all anymore. Maybe those that did bring up the fact they looked like Genesis were summarily threatened or made to "disappear" like those who knew the truth regarding Nibelheim.

People today are still talking about 9/11, and after events such as WWII, people in Stalingrad, Berlin, Kiev, scars of the battle, physical and mental dominated people's minds and conversation for years. People in FF7 don't really say shit about it. And you can cover up why a battle happened, the antagonists, and the details, but you can't hide or cover up a battle itself, so that's out of the question.

Well again, some people in Midgar do say that they heard of AVALANCHE before in the past and think its all stupid so...

Didn't the Turks fight Jade WEAPON in Midgar? Or was it Zirconaide? Either way, I know the Turks had SOME huge battle with SOMETHING in Midgar.

Jade WEAPON can be fought anywhere. From a populus place like Midgar, to an isolated area like Icicle Lodge. Depends on where you are in terms of service. And yeah, I'd equate that fight to how you ran into Deathguise in FFVI. It's stalking the skies and shit, but not many people say anything about it despite the fact its *there.* Most people just probably see it as another monster, since its only attacking people in the air, or whoever it sees as a target. It's not causing wanton destruction like Ultima WEAPON.

EDIT: So it had to have been Zirconaide. Even so, wouldn't people notice a huge monster jet flying around? People sure noticed Doom Gaze in FF6.

Well, monsters do attack in the world of FFVII. They probably saw it as that and due to the fact that Zirconaide wasn't allowed to become fully complete, it wasn't nearly as much of a threat as it could've been. The Turks were able to keep it as low key as they could before it became a huge threat like the WEAPONs in FFVII.

 

[S and G]

Jade WEAPON can be fought anywhere. From a populus place like Midgar, to an isolated area like Icicle Lodge. Depends on where you are in terms of service. And yeah, I'd equate that fight to how you ran into Deathguise in FFVI. It's stalking the skies and shit, but not many people say anything about it despite the fact its *there.* Most people just probably see it as another monster, since its only attacking people in the air, or whoever it sees as a target. It's not causing wanton destruction like Ultima WEAPON.

Jade WEAPON creates a black mist around itself too. Could explain why no-one saw it (although given the size of the fucking thing we're clutching at straws here)

Barret mentions it, as well as a few NPCs in Cosmo Canyon and around Midgar. It's also stated in the Ultimania Omega how Barret's "New" AVALANCHE was inspired by the older one. Barret talks about said inspiration as well. The original founder of AVALANCHE who fought Shinra started the group in Cosmo Canyon.

Yeah it's made clear in the Japanese script that Barret's AVALANCHE were not the original ones. Alo as a note of interest, the early materials show that a man named Mon Mos wrote a book on the Study of Planet Life. Perhaps that was to be the original founder's name and it was later changed.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Barret mentions it, as well as a few NPCs in Cosmo Canyon and around Midgar. It's also stated in the Ultimania Omega how Barret's "New" AVALANCHE was inspired by the older one. Barret talks about said inspiration as well. The original founder of AVALANCHE who fought Shinra started the group in Cosmo Canyon.

Ah, I see. That's all fine and good, but this impression wasn't conveyed in the game. Sure, Barret mentions that 'some dude from Cosmo Canyon thought up the idea and here we are yay', I'm aware that the original game says that Barrett didn't come up with the idea, but the game doesn't implicate that AVALANCHE is the new incarnation of an older, legitimate threat where entire armies invaded cities.

It would have taken very little effort in terms of writing for President Shinra, the Turks, or the Army (or even regular civilians) to have some lines detailing that AVALANCHE is the new version of an old threat that raised hell before in the past. The game did not give that impression.

And it makes a bit more sense when you consider that to most people, that Zir/Jade were perhaps viewed as a strong monster that Shinra dealt with, but even then, that doesn't excuse the fact that the common citizens don't address in the original game at all about the Genesis/AVALANCHE attacks in the past. It wasn't just some isolated shit, it was an attack by an entire army (two different armies at quite a few times) on major, fortified population centers.

And nobody has anything to say about it and it wasn't referenced in the original game at all.

Lame.

 

[S and G]

Oops, also forgot to mention that half of the time spent fighting Jade WEAPON actually takes place in an alternative dimension (WEAPON-D Mode) which means it could have been anywhere

 

[Makoeyes987]

Ah, I see. That's all fine and good, but this impression wasn't conveyed in the game. Sure, Barret mentions that 'some dude from Cosmo Canyon thought up the idea and here we are yay', but the game doesn't implicate that AVALANCHE is the new incarnation of an older, legitimate threat.

Well as I said, several NPCs in Cosmo Canyon and Midgar talk about how an older Anti-Shinra Organization terrorized the people and fought Shinra, and they're sick of it.

It would have taken very little effort in terms of writing for President Shinra, the Turks, or the Army (or even regular civilians) to have some lines detailing that AVALANCHE is the new version of an old threat that raised hell before in the past. The game did not give that impression.

Now that I agree with. Its strange they don't talk about how this group has the same name as the one they beat before, but perhaps anti-Shinra terrorist organizations are just so common place they just don't care anymore

And it makes a bit more sense when you consider that to most people, that Zir/Jade were perhaps viewed as a strong monster that Shinra dealt with, but even then, that doesn't excuse the fact that the common citizens don't address in the original game at all about the Genesis/AVALANCHE attacks in the past. It wasn't just some isolated shit, it was an attack by an entire army (two different armies at quite a few times) on major, fortified population centers.

Again, they say a bit of something and perhaps that monster attacks and terrorists aren't that new anymore. It's not like FFVII is a peaceful world, at all.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Well as I said, several NPCs in Cosmo Canyon and Midgar talk about how an older Anti-Shinra Organization terrorized the people and fought Shinra, and they're sick of it.

But...they don't. . The only mention of the previous AVALANCHE comes from Barret and him admitting that he didn't create it. Every other grievance about AVALANCHE from anyone else is in relevance to the current AVALANCHE.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm pretty sure there are a few in Cosmo Canyon and Midgar that do. Does I have to bust out my PSone memory card and look through my saves now?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Please do, bro! Or someone do. I'm curious.

 

[OWA-2]

Well, monsters do attack in the world of FFVII. They probably saw it as that and due to the fact that Zirconaide wasn't allowed to become fully complete, it wasn't nearly as much of a threat as it could've been. The Turks were able to keep it as low key as they could before it became a huge threat like the WEAPONs in FFVII.

Low key? If I record correctly, Zirconiade opened/created a type of alternate dimension above Midgar(the last dungeon), and after defeated, he made a loud roar and became glowing "snow" falling all over the city. Hard to miss something like that.

Oops, also forgot to mention that half of the time spent fighting Jade WEAPON actually takes place in an alternative dimension (WEAPON-D Mode) which means it could have been anywhere

WEAPON-D Mode is canon? I thought it was just an optional side-quest that happened after you defeat Jade Weapon with the only purpose of giving the player another chance to fight the Weapon again. At least, this is what I read in an interview with Nomura.

 

[S and G]

WEAPON-D Mode is canon? I thought it was just an optional side-quest that happened after you defeat Jade Weapon with the only purpose of giving the player another chance to fight the Weapon again. At least, this is what I read in an interview with Nomura.

It takes place in an alternative dimension with characters who are not otherwise occupied and thus has no effect on anyone else so it's neither here nor there whether it's canon. You are correct that WEAPON-D mode was just a side quest to give veteran players a chance to enter into an epic battle and has no bearing whatsoever on anything else. Canon or non-canon? Take your pick. I don't imagine the alternative dimension to be any different logically to Nero's Oblivion.

 

[OWA-2]

It takes place in an alternative dimension with characters who are not otherwise occupied and thus has no effect on anyone else so it's neither here nor there whether it's canon. You are correct that WEAPON-D mode was just a side quest to give veteran players a chance to enter into an epic battle and has no bearing whatsoever on anything else. Canon or non-canon? Take your pick. I don't imagine the alternative dimension to be any different logically to Nero's Oblivion.

But from what I heard, you can fight Jade an infinite number of times during WEAPON-D. That makes it noncanon because, different of other canon enemies and bosses, it NEVER dies.
Do you think the Turks kept fighting Jade all their lives until they died of old age? I don't.

 

[Ryushikaze]

So, I hear that if you have a game with a new game or endgame+ mode nothing's canon because you can refight things over and over.

Like the final boss of FFTA/2 not being canon since you can keep refighting them even as you keep your experience from battling them.

 

[S and G]

But from what I heard, you can fight Jade an infinite number of times during WEAPON-D. That makes it noncanon because, different of other canon enemies and bosses, it NEVER dies.
Do you think the Turks kept fighting Jade all their lives until they died of old age? I don't.

I think you've missed the point. Like Ryushikaze said, your logic is based on something that is deliberately present in the game to encourage replay value. Ryushikaze hit the nail on the head with the whole New Game+ argument. Part of WEAPON-D mode is where you have to rescue comrades who have been trapped in another dimension. Would you consider that the normal rescue mode is not there canon either because there is replay value to it and characters can be repeatedly detained by AVALANCHE? I understand what you're getting at, but what I don't get is why it's an issue. I don't particularly think it's canon either, but it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on any other aspect of my FFVII experience and I don't believe it should affect anyone else's.

But, that's just my opinion.