The new "Ghosts" from the Symphonic Trailer

[The Twilight Mexican]

Cloud is not actually a Sephiroth Clone, but actually Cloud Strife who grew up in Nibelheim and got beat up a lot. I thought this plot point was pretty clear by now. Sephiroth is lying to him to dehumanize him and remove his sense of agency.

He is a Sephiroth Clone -- but "Sephiroth Clone" doesn't mean "genetic duplicate of Sephiroth." It just refers to someone who was used in Hojo's Sephiroth Clone Project to test his Reunion Theory.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I predict that Cloud's encounter with Sephiroth takes place right after Reactor No. 1 explodes and right after the rest of the team have ditched him, and right before he runs into Aerith for the 1st time, making those wraith things much more specifically associate with him. My guess now is that they are his dark energy or manifestation of his will or whatever.

 

[jazzflower92]

He is a Sephiroth Clone -- but "Sephiroth Clone" doesn't mean "genetic duplicate of Sephiroth." It just refers to someone who was used in Hojo's Sephiroth Clone Project to test his Reunion Theory.

So more like Hojo's Experiment.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Interesting theory I read on reddit.
The "ghosts" are exactly that, they are the fragmented pieces of consciousness from the lifestream that cling to cloud due to his extreme mako poisoning. Mako being part of the lifestream meant that clouds essentially infested with these pieces of consciousness and aeris being an ancient is able to communicate with them or in this case manifest them.

At this point (that we know about) Aeris has never had a direct interaction with the lifestream e.g been exposed to mako in a condensed form or a lifestream vein. So when she touches cloud her inate powers as an ancient allow the fragmented pieces of consciousness to manifest as a physical manifestation of their former selves.

Perhaps it's a combination of Cloud's former-self in pieces before the Mako Poisoning and maybe Zack's spirit trying to call out to her for help or something since they seem to be coming from Cloud, but parts of Sephiroth and Jenova corrupted them to look like that and make things more difficult.

 

[Tashasaurous]

Could be that too.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

It could be so many things. It will be cool to find out what they actually are.

 

[Shademp]

New info provided by Hian, transmitted via Chip.

Hian

"Apparently, the black shadows that surround Cloud and Aerith are called Guardians of Destiny, or Unmei no Bannin 運命の番人

According to the official Japanese FFVIIR site

I did a google search, but this term is not associated with any OG walkthroughs or wiki articles etc in Japanese, so it doesn't seem to be a concept taken from the original"

-https://www.jp.square-enix.com/ffvii_remake/

So apparently the swoosh-swoosh are something totally new, neither the ghosts of the damned or JENOVA bits.

Scroll down to the "Story" summary on the official JP website and you'll find the name there.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

... Okay then.

 

[Shademp]

I hope it's just a flashy name that doesn't imply any fate-manipulating entities who exist outside of the timestream or whatever. That would really, really...not be a good concept to shove into FF7.

A few concepts are popping into my head from the name "Guardians of Destiny" and I don't like any of them. I am now, officially, truly concerned about the FFVIIR plot.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And that makes two of us, my friend.

But we'll always have Paris -- by which I mean this is an AU anyway.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That's how I'm looking at it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Guardians of Destiny..?

Wow. I have no idea what that even means.

LoL I guess.. We'll find out soon... And I highly doubt there's going to be any sort of plot line regarding a literal changing of destiny. That just doesn't even make sense.

This story is taking place in Midgar... Not the Historia Crux.

I just think it's a fancy title for them. And I still think they have a connection to Sephiroth... Why else place those things next to him?

 

[Shademp]

Maybe they are the "Guardians of Destiny" because Sephiroth is LITERALLY the chosen one, as foretold in an ancient prophecy. Their role is to guide the chosen one, Sephiroth, to godhood?!

PLEASE DON'T LET ANY OF THIS BE TRUE

 

[Makoeyes987]

...What ancient prophecy?

The one his Mommy wrote for him?

Cause he ain't no Ancient. He's a test-tube hybrid space alien baby.

Just knowing their name doesn't confirm or deny their connection to Sephiroth or even explain what they are. That's just a name.

Those things having that name doesn't imply a literal "fate" that's being threaded or whatever. Unless you believe Goddess Etro is now pulling the strings and everything's predetermined?

I think they're some sort of spirit of course but, they're obviously malevolent, going by their appearance. But the name is just a title. Like the giant planet monsters being called "weapons."

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't know what to expect it to mean, but it's funny: for the first time, all my prior expectations about what overall path the remake will "have to" take -- the story beats and plot developments of the original -- have been expunged.

I'm no longer certain if we should expect all the original sub-plots (e.g. Dyne, the Cave of the Gi, etc.) or even quite the same main events and ending.

All that just by three words.

 

[Shademp]

I certainly hope you are right, Mako. I hope it's just a silly name.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

As a follow-up to my previous post, I want to quote this post @Cannon_Fodder made just a few minutes ago:

Now that we know the first game is set entirely in Midgar, I'm curious to see if they move some events from the OG world map into Midgar. Like, maybe you run into Yuffie in a back alley and recruit her there, or Cloud tells the party about Nibelheim in Midgar, rather than in Kalm.
That might be a good way to expand the Midgar section while also making the next part a little more manageable in terms of development resources and time.

Prior to this "Guardians of Fate" thing, I wouldn't have thought any of this was too possible. But seeing what a change we already have -- who knows!

 

[Shademp]

Fingers crossed that "Guardians of Destiny" simply means "Messengers of the Reunion" (or some other, non-controversial thing) by some mental acrobatics.

 

[Keveh Kins]

Guardians of Destiny. G.O.D.

Sephiroth plans to become a God.

Ergo they are Sephiroth.

But Sephiroth has never operated through snappy wordplay before.

Thus this new rebooted Sephiroth is a character altogether different from the Sephiroth of old.

More streetwise... More lingual... It's the G to the O to the D. Y'all can call me Sephy C. Cause my mom's surname was Crescent. And she never learned her lesson. Fuckin' round with Jenova, now her kid causing havoc all over. Plate sidddddeeee!!! Yo!

...

Rapiroth

 

[ForceStealer]

It's not really worth getting worked up about until we have info about it that means anything.

Also, TIL "Fate" starts with a "D"

 

[Keveh Kins]

It's not really worth getting worked up about until we have info about it that means anything.

Also, TIL "Fate" starts with a "D"

Hush you, I'm a pasty white guy typing on my phone, we can't all be lyrical wordsmiths like Rapiroth

 

[Claymore]

Yeah, I wouldn't get too worked up until we find out more about what that title actually means. But it is a bit of a head-scratch.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

So, that Reddit thread is completely blank, so I'm not sure what was put there originally, but here I go anyways!

There's something else interesting about that particular phrase's construction:

《運命の番人》
• Another translation of 運命 is "doom" which carries a significantly different weight to it than "fate" or "destiny" would.
• Additionally, the term for the guard/watchman originated in individuals who were literally counted numerically for combat (which is why in a lot of languages the verb used for the phrase, "to count numbers" and the phrase, "to count on someone" are the same thing – since they refer to relying on a numerical force of individuals in a bonded tribal context. In Japanese this word is written out literally as 番 (number) 人 (person). The word 番号 in Japanese is used for a numerical series like a phone number, and another common usage is also in sequential groupings like 一番, 二番, 三番 (First, Second, Third) so my guess here is that we've got some subtle wordplay happening with the name and role of these entities.

If we're looking at this in a FFVII-specific context, we do have a known set of Doomed Numbered People who are also serving as destined watchmen or fated guards for Sephiroth's Reunion. In the original game they're just called the《マントの男》which is literally just マント (Cloak) and 男 (Man), which is very literal and is just literally a man in a cloak. If they're making these Reunion entities more supernaturally connected to the Lifestream, but still keeping the connection to the Sephiroth Clones who are all identified by numerical tattoos.

But why though? Where the hell is this coming from?


I think it's actually connected to one of the unresolved mysteries from the Original Game that has been a deep obsession of mine for a really REALLY long time (like since back in the ACF days), and that's Sephiroth's Death Cinematic, and the cleansing of his Red Lifestream within Cloud's body:

https://imgur.com/gXnHnNP

https://imgur.com/Op5rHaN

I always took that to be the implication about why Cloud manifested Geostigma within Advent Children, and if this is a relationship that they're attempting to develop REALLY early on – there's a number of possibilities for how they're going to spin that integration. The main thing that I can think of here is that it's a connection to both a poisoning of the Lifestream (like we see in Advent Children), as well as specifically there being THREE of them (like we also see in Advent Children). We know that the 思念体 (Remnants) are Sephiroth's will literally being manifested within the Lifestream itself to create the forms of Kadaj, Yazoo, and Loz in Advent Children, and I think that this is giving us a sense that these entities are already here in the form of wraith-like entities.

I'm suspecting that this non-physically manifested will is drawing the connection to the cult of the Cloaked & Tattooed individuals who are physical test subjects – since gathering together the children into a little brainwashed cult was very much Kadaj's jam in AC, it makes sense that these entities are the form that Sephiroth's will takes within the Lifestream to mess with Cloud, as his body is sitting in the North Crater.

If the Remake is really getting to redefine everything that's existed before, planting the seeds for the Remnants' metaphysical existence and motives is a really good call. Hell, it could even mean that we get to PLAY a version of Advent Children as a part of the main story that involves actually tracking down and beating Sephiroth for good and purging him from the Lifestream, as well as setting Cloud's mind at ease. On top of that, it also connects them to Aerith early on since she's related to ultimately overcoming them.


tl;dr – lots of speculation, but they're totally an early Lifestream-bound form of Kadaj, Yazoo, & Loz that Sephiroth is using to gather the cult of cloaked Reunion test subjects.





X

 

[Odysseus]

Wow, that's a really cool idea! At the very least, the wraith's resemblance to the black hooded men is surely no coincidence. While I'm not so sure they'd bring in Kadaj and co. from advent children, having this all relate back to the reunion is much preferable to having some vague, nebulous other-worldy entities guiding events.

 

[Shademp]

"Story" summary transcribed by reddit user whatswiththesefrogs :

星から吸い上げた生命エネルギー《魔晄》。
《ミッドガル》――八基の魔晄炉を有する階層都市。
魔晄によって世界を掌握した巨大企業《神羅カンパニー》と
星を守るために立ち上がった反神羅組織《アバランチ》が激突する。
元ソルジャーのクラウドは、傭兵として
アバランチの《壱番魔晄炉爆破作戦》に参加していた。
魔晄炉爆破の余韻響く八番街。
炎に包まれる街で、死んだはずの宿敵の幻影が揺らめく。
消し去りたい過去の幻影に導かれ、彼女と出会う。
花売りの女性が差し出した黄色い花。
花言葉は――《再会》
その刹那、ふたりを取り囲む黒い影――《運命の番人》。
今、想いが再び星を巡る。