The Pros of Final Fantasy X-2

[Makoeyes987]

Jecht and Tidus became real manifestations in the real physical world of Spira. That's the difference. Anyone from Dream Zanarakand could've become real like that, if they had gotten into contact with Sin and taken to Spira. They're born from spirit energy, live real lives, and have children in their dream world. They're "real" in that sense, and go to the Farplane. But they aren't "physically" real, like a real person in Spira.

It's actually confirmed in the FFX-2 Last Mission Ultimania.

**Connection with Tidus?**
The appearance and voice of Shuyin resemble Tidus, but the two are completely
different in actuality. Shuyin is a man of the past; he lived 1000 years ago
in Zanarkand, the metropolis city of summoners. Tidus, a pyreform, was a
resident of its summoned replica, Dream Zanarkand.

Be that as it may, Dream Zanarkand was in fact created with the idea in mind
that it be the ideal [representation] of Zanarkand's existance, a wish given
form. Since its existance was the model for everything in Dream Zanarkand,
this extends to its inhabitants also. When thinking about this with regard to
Tidus, one cannot deny the possibility that this was the case with his
personage and Shuyin. However, most inhabitants of Dream Zanarkand would marry
one another and have children, continuing the cycle of life. For this reason,
the genes of the dream's inhabitants began to blend in a complicated way, and
with these impurities, the duplication of Shuyin's personage cannot be
certain. Even if it is true that Shuyin was the model for Tidus, this would
not mean that their connection is close.

So Shuyin was the basis of the "dream" of Tidus, but Tidus and Shuyin are individuals and not the same because they have different parentage, experiences, backgrounds, etc. Tidus may be a dream based on Shuyin, but he has his own life, and is not his clone.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

But they aren't "physically" real, like a real person in Spira.

No, they're physically real. Dream Zanarkand is an actual, physical location on Spira. The FFX Ultimania even has it on the world map.

 

[Tetsujin]

Wut. It's not physical.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yes, it is. It is an actual physical location on Spira.

 

[Tetsujin]

No. No, it's not. Don't make me repeat it.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

No. No, it's not. Don't make me repeat it.

Well, I guess the Ultimania is wrong then. Besides, even without the Ultimania, you can use the logic the game gives us; Summons are always manifested as real, corporeal things in the real world; there is no indication that a summon can/does exist outside of the 'plane' of the rest of the world.

 

[Strangelove]

How could Sin travel to Zanarkand (and then Tidus to Spira) if it wasn't a place that physically existed somewhere?

 

[Tetsujin]

Except that there is a difference between summoning an Aeon and something as abstract as a dream.

Also, quote the Ultimania to back up your argument.

Dream Zanarkand doesn't exist as a physical place. Living persons can't even enter it because of that. Only beings without an actual flesh and blood body can go there.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Except that there is a difference between summoning an Aeon and something as abstract as a dream.

Except that summons have to exist in the real world, period. Summons HAVE to physically exist in FFX's world.

Also, quote the Ultimania to back up your argument.

Once I find it. However, I know what I saw and I know what I read. Someone translated the Ultimania and stated, and SHOWN a picture of DZ's location on the world map.

Dream Zanarkand doesn't exist as a physical place. Living persons can't even enter it because of that.

Living persons can't enter it because nobody knows where it is. Why do you think Sin was created in the first place? (hint; the Ultimania states its relatively near Baaj Island)

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Only beings without an actual flesh and blood body can go there.

Tidus has an actual flesh and blood body. His origin as part of a larger 'summon' is different than everyone elses, but his flesh and blood are constructed of pyreflies just like every other physical object/person in Spira.

Granted, his physical makeup as being a PYREFLY person is different than everyone else, but he's not like a ghost or anything.

 

[Tetsujin]

Living persons can't enter it because nobody knows where it is. Why do you think Sin was created in the first place? (hint; the Ultimania states its relatively near Baaj Island)

That's complete nonsense.

Yu Yevon is summoning the dream of the Fayth. A literal, fucking dream. It is not a physical place.

Why Sin was created? Because Yu Yevon uses it as a darn armor so he can safely summon from its inside.

Tidus has an actual flesh and blood body.

Again no. He is actually made of pyreflies. That is not "actually" flesh and blood.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

That's complete nonsense.

Yu Yevon is summoning the dream of the Fayth. A literal, fucking dream. It is not a physical place.

Why Sin was created? Because Yu Yevon uses it as a darn armor so he can safely summon from its inside

Welp, argument over.

 

[Strangelove]

Yu Yevon is summoning the dream of the Fayth. A literal, fucking dream. It is not a physical place.

Maybe it's not a literal dream

 

[Makoeyes987]

I forgot. That's right. It's near Baaj Temple.

It's no lie. The Dream Zanarkand location, while a non-physical dimension, also has a physical representation and location on Spira. It's like an aeon. It's near Baaj Temple. It's shown in the FFX Ultimania. There's no reason for us to lie about it.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=2000008&topic=42779551

Here is the proof.

 

[Tetsujin]

Now I'm confused you fucking faggots.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

the truth hurts

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's not confusing. When a fayth dreams an aeon, a physical manifestation of it pops up into Spira.

Dream Zanarkand is literally one huge, mega-aeon that is being dreamed up by a multitude of Fayth. There is a physical manifestation of this. Like an aeon. It is Dream Zanarkand, and no human has ever found it because it's so far away, and Sin guards it, killing people and anyone stupid enough to try to get there.

 

[Nikkolas]

So Shuyin was the basis of the "dream" of Tidus, but Tidus and Shuyin are individuals and not the same because they have different parentage, experiences, backgrounds, etc. Tidus may be a dream based on Shuyin, but he has his own life, and is not his clone.

I've already read that passage and all it does is confirm exactly what I already said.Tidus is not based on Shuyin because Tidus is not the deream created by the Fayth in Shuyin's likeness. He is at most a descendant of that dream as the translation points out. Their connection may not be close as Tidus be the descendant of the dream of Shuyin created hundreds of years ago.

 

[Channy]

Shuyin > Tidus. That is all you'll ever need to know.

I have a question tho about SpiraxAeons that maybe someone can fill in for me. I don't have the ultimania book but it may not even be elaborated in it. But here goes.

There's Zanarkand and Dream Zanarkand. Dream Zanarkand is basically like a big old memory that's somehow tangible and physical, yes? IRL Zanarkand is basically the ruins of Old Zanarkand 1000 years ago, the one Shuyin and Lenne are supposed to be from, yes? But what of the Aeons throughout time?

The first Aeon was an unacquirable Aeon, Lord Zaon... for some reason you can't acquire him. But it was always my understanding that whenever a Summoner Grand Summons, their Summon is put into a Temple and thus, acquirable for later Summoners. So Lady Yunalesca and Lord Zaon were the first Summoner and Aeon/Fayth. Done in Zanarkand, so his Fayth is in Zanarkand.

BUT it's described somewhere in the game that Sin always comes back after 10 years (was it 10 years? Or he just comes back randomly?). So if Sin comes back every 10 years, shouldn't there be a lot more Aeons/Fayth to acquire? There's only 8 acquirable aeons, plus Lord Zaon which makes 9 (successful notable) Grand Summons in the history of Spira. But if Sin comes back after 10 years, that only accounts for 100 years at the most. What happens in that 900 year gap?

 

[Nikkolas]

Shuyin > Tidus. That is all you'll ever need to know.

Believe me. I know this.

Question 1: Why are there only 8 aeons? Because only 8 (well would it be more? Are the Magus Sisters 3 spirits I guess?) chose to become Fayth. Also with the exception of Yojimbo, Fayth are located in temples. And since there are only that many temples, that's how many Fayth there are.

Question 2: What happened in the other 900 years? Sin wrecked shit. The High Summoner defeated him and then he came back and wandered around for a while until another came along and beat him and so-on and so-forth.

As for why you can't acquire Zaon, after he defeated Sin, he became Sin. So when the Zaon-Sin was defeated, his spirit went away and found itself in the Via Infinito. So his soul wasn't in the Fayth statue anymore so that's why you can't summon him or any of the other Guardians who gave their lives for their summoners.

Also note, Seymour's mother (Anima) is a Final Aeon. Yet he never used her to defeat Sin. Then Yuna comes along and she too can acquite and summon Anima.This prompts a theory I've heard that all summons are Final Aeosn who just weren't used.

 

[Strangelove]

I was going to say that I think Final Aeon only were with their summoner because they have a bond, which is what makes them so powerful. But you can get Anima, which was Seymour's Final Aeon

When a summoner defeats Sin, Yevon takes over their Aeon and used it to make the next Sin, so maybe after that happens the Fayth ends up like Zaon (empty and dead)?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The first Aeon was an unacquirable Aeon, Lord Zaon... for some reason you can't acquire him. But it was always my understanding that whenever a Summoner Grand Summons, their Summon is put into a Temple and thus, acquirable for later Summoners. So Lady Yunalesca and Lord Zaon were the first Summoner and Aeon/Fayth. Done in Zanarkand, so his Fayth is in Zanarkand.

Wait, huh? Not every Aeon was someone else's Final Aeon. Some of the Aeons were around long before Sin existed. Once an Aeon is used for a Final Summoning, it becomes Sin, and can never be used again.

By the way, an Aeon intended to be a Final Aeon only has its strength when wielded by the Summoner that the Final Aeon was made for. So Seymour summoning Anima could beat Sin by itself, but Yuna using Anima just results in a pretty strong Aeon.

BUT it's described somewhere in the game that Sin always comes back after 10 years (was it 10 years? Or he just comes back randomly?). So if Sin comes back every 10 years, shouldn't there be a lot more Aeons/Fayth to acquire? There's only 8 acquirable aeons, plus Lord Zaon which makes 9 (successful notable) Grand Summons in the history of Spira. But if Sin comes back after 10 years, that only accounts for 100 years at the most. What happens in that 900 year gap?

There have only six people, including Yuna, to have ever beaten Sin. Only Six High Summoners. A Calm can last from a few months to a year. After Yuna beat Sin, it was gone for good, hence the Eternal Calm. Braska's Calm only really lasted a year or so. The other 900 years are indeed Sin wrecking shit.

BTW, Grand Summon is just a term for Yuna's Overdrive. The term you're looking for is Final Aeon.

 

[Channy]

Alright, so from what I gathered, (which I also completely neglected to remember ) Summoner summons a Final Aeon. Final Aeon -> Sin. I totally knew this too, but just forgot. But that raises then another question.

If every Aeon a Summoner makes into their Final Aeon, and they only get one Final Aeon which becomes Sin and then later dies when a new Aeon comes around... Where DO the Aeons come from that are in the Temple?

When you go talk to them after acquiring the airship, they all speak to you about Sin, but it never really says if they're the Summoner, or the Guardian. But the Magus Sisters are three individuals which made me think of Guardians, because three people can't be one Summoner.

Then again, Lulu talks about the Summoner she guarded earlier on before Yuna, who died in the Cavern of the Fayth. Yojimbo is that Summoner, so does that mean then are all the other Aeons in temples Summoners? But didn't all the Summoner's just die after summoning the Final Aeon?

...Can anyone make ANY sense of all this?

 

[Tennyo]

@ Mog:

I don't think all of the current aeons in FFX were around before Sin. I've always had a theory that there were others but I think they were probably in the war of a thousand or so years past. All of the current Aeons are former residents of Zanarkand that volunteered to be Fayth so that they could summon the Dream Zanarkand and also so that they could be used by Yu Yevon to defeat Bevelle. Well that eventually went haywire. lol

That said I wonder how one becomes a Fayth or even creates a Fayth. Could the denizens of Spira make more Fayth if they ever wanted?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

If every Aeon a Summoner makes into their Final Aeon, and they only get one Final Aeon which becomes Sin and then later dies when a new Aeon comes around... Where DO the Aeons come from that are in the Temple?

People can voluntarily become Fayth. Before Sin, residents of Zanarkand did this to keep the art of summoning alive, and after Sin, people all over Spira did it to keep the rest of them alive. I assume it takes a special calibre to become a Fayth, so there aren't too many now. However that's partly because Zanarkand, which was full of summoners and fayths, is presently a black, greasy crater on the map.

When you go talk to them after acquiring the airship, they all speak to you about Sin, but it never really says if they're the Summoner, or the Guardian. But the Magus Sisters are three individuals which made me think of Guardians, because three people can't be one Summoner.

Wait, huh? There's a possibility that some of the summons you obtain were someone's Final Aeon/Guardian, but you don't HAVE to be a Final Aeon to be a fayth. You can volunteer yourself for it regardless and be a regular strength Aeon.

Then again, Lulu talks about the Summoner she guarded earlier on before Yuna, who died in the Cavern of the Fayth. Yojimbo is that Summoner, so does that mean then are all the other Aeons in temples Summoners? But didn't all the Summoner's just die after summoning the Final Aeon?

A summoner cannot become an Aeon/Fayth whatsoever.

Yojimbo is that Summoner, so does that mean then are all the other Aeons in temples Summoners?

Wait WHAT are you talking about? Yojimbo is an Aeon, not a Summoner.