Yu-Gi-Oh!

[ForceStealer]

And naw, that's a 4Kids dub plot contrivance they added that wasn't in the original story. Malik, and Yami Malik wanted to kill Yugi and Atem. He wasn't interested in the Millennium Puzzle at all. That's why he had brainwashed Jou try to chuck the pieces of the puzzle into the ocean. He wanted Atem dead, out of revenge.

I know that's what normal Malik wanted and that 4kids had changed that, but I wasn't sure which Yami Malik wanted. He was certainly picking up Millenium Items (Bakura's Ring and...I presume the Eye too though no one mentioned it)

 

[crack]

I dunno, Yugi's never seemed to turn down a Shadow Game when Pegasus or anyone else has started one. Besides, Yami Malik wanted the Millennium Puzzle or...revenge or something, can't remember.

I doubt Yami Malik holds the same pride and honor that Atem does, but would rather play by his rules, even if it meant temporarily holding back. Throughout the series you see the duelist's play by their own free will, and if Atem was the one challenging him, I'm pretty sure Yami Malik wouldn't accept from the knowledge that he wouldn't be the one conducting whatever screwed up shit he had in mind.

I also doubt Kaiba would've let him back out.

If he surrendered even before the game started, I don't think Kaiba would be able to do much about that.

I know that's what normal Malik wanted and that 4kids had changed that, but I wasn't sure which Yami Malik wanted. He was certainly picking up Millenium Items (Bakura's Ring and...I presume the Eye too though no one mentioned it)

A souvenir from his victims? He's messed up.

 

[ForceStealer]

But if the duel already started, there's not really an issue, if Yami Yugi started the Shadow Game before Yami Malik did, it would have played out.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I know that's what normal Malik wanted and that 4kids had changed that, but I wasn't sure which Yami Malik wanted. He was certainly picking up Millenium Items (Bakura's Ring and...I presume the Eye too though no one mentioned it)

Yami Malik only took the other Millennium Items because they increased his power, and it was his "spoils of victory." The only thing he truly wanted overall, was to kill Atem, Yugi, and then everyone else in the world. He was just utterly insane and violent.

I doubt Yami Malik holds the same pride and honor that Atem does, but would rather play by his rules, even if it meant temporarily holding back. Throughout the series you see the duelist's play by their own free will, and if Atem was the one challenging him, I'm pretty sure Yami Malik wouldn't accept from the knowledge that he wouldn't be the one conducting whatever screwed up shit he had in mind.

Well, the thing with a Game of Darkness, is that you can't stop it, no matter what the rules are. A battle between two Millennium Item holders must go by the Duel of Darkness's initiator's rules. Because that's what the game is based around.

When Yami Bakura dueled Yami Malik, and Yami Malik initiated the Game of Darkness, Yami Bakura had no choice but to play by Malik's rules. Even though he's just as powerful as Yami Malik, the "ritual" couldn't be stopped and had to be performed by the rules. You can't back out or try to change them.

If Atem initiated a Game of Darkness against Yami Malik, Yami Malik would have to play as well.

 

[ForceStealer]

And would not that have been better?

Also, rules HAVE been changed though. Atem switched Bakura's souls in their Shadow Game during Duelist Kingdom.

 

[crack]

But if the duel already started, there's not really an issue, if Yami Yugi started the Shadow Game before Yami Malik did, it would have played out.

Only if Yami Malik willingly accepted to the duel.

Ahh crap now I need to rewatch this duel again.

Well, the thing with a Game of Darkness, is that you can't stop it, no matter what the rules are. A battle between two Millennium Item holders must go by the Duel of Darkness's initiator's rules. Because that's what the game is based around.

When Yami Bakura dueled Yami Malik, and Yami Malik initiated the Game of Darkness, Yami Bakura had no choice but to play by Malik's rules. Even though he's just as powerful as Yami Malik, the "ritual" couldn't be stopped and had to be performed by the rules. You can't back out or try to change them.

If Atem initiated a Game of Darkness against Yami Malik, Yami Malik would have to play as well.

But Yami Bakura accepted Yami Malik's Game of Darkness. Throughout the series Atem gives his victim the choice of either playing or not, and all of them (foolishly) accept because they consider him weak; in fact, that's the case with all of all three yami's - they only initiate the duel, but it's the duelist's choice whether or not they accept. Yami Malik would have most likely only willingly played unless he was the one who determined the rules of the game, not Atem.

And would not that have been better?

I doubt Yami Malik would have accepted unless it was under his terms.

 

[ForceStealer]

Ahh crap now I need to rewatch this duel again.

Honestly I found that duel kind of lame. It's just, I dunno, wasn't very exciting. The duel with Pegasus was better, and the rules don't even make any sense in Duelist Kingdom. Jou's duel against Marik was better, frankly.

By the way, many thanks all for letting me nerd out about Yu-gi-oh like I never could when I was younger. Much appreciated

 

[Strangelove]

The Atem-centric one is Japanese, but the one focusing on Yugi is actually Korean. I'll show both though:

Spoiler: Atem

Spoiler: Yugi

Actually, I have no idea who Atem is I thought they were both about the same character.

Also foiled again by my ignorance of Korean. I thought the card at the end looks a bit Korean.

 

[crack]

Honestly I found that duel kind of lame. It's just, I dunno, wasn't very exciting. The duel with Pegasus was better, and the rules don't even make any sense in Duelist Kingdom. Jou's duel against Marik was better, frankly.

WAT

The Yami Malik vs. Atem duel was fucking awesome, the duel with Pegasus was so cheesy. I mean, he couldn't read through Atem's mind because of his FRIENDS? There was nothing like that in the duel between Y. Malik and Atem, but just plain sadistic evil plot twists and sacrificial lambs.

By the way, many thanks all for letting me nerd out about Yu-gi-oh like I never could when I was younger. Much appreciated

Just helping out.

Actually, I have no idea who Atem is I thought they were both about the same character.

Also foiled again by my ignorance of Korean. I thought the card at the end looks a bit Korean.

Actually I thought they were the same person too when I first watched the show.

But, there are some differences - Atem's height is taller, but probably because he stands up more confidently. Atem's hair also has more yellow spikes, and the shape of their eyes and overall face structure is different. Their personalities also really contrast.

Text was too small for me to translate anyways.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And would not that have been better?

Also, rules HAVE been changed though. Atem switched Bakura's souls in their Shadow Game during Duelist Kingdom.

Actually, that was Ryou who did that, through sheer force of will. Kinda like what Malik did with Yami Malik. And that's a filler duel anyways so who cares.

Honestly I found that duel kind of lame. It's just, I dunno, wasn't very exciting. The duel with Pegasus was better, and the rules don't even make any sense in Duelist Kingdom. Jou's duel against Marik was better, frankly.

Really? Yami Malik's duel with Yugi and Atem was one of my favorite duels, period. It was so damn violent and intense, especially when Atem had Obelisk direct attack Yami Malik and he sent him flying several feet, and have him cough up blood. XD

But yeah, the duel against Pegasus was one of the best ones in the series too. That's when Yugi played my favorite monster in all of YGO. Magician of Black Chaos. God, that monster is so badass.

Only if Yami Malik willingly accepted to the duel.

Ahh crap now I need to rewatch this duel again.

Naw, you can't *refuse* a Game of Darkness. No matter how badass you are.

But Yami Bakura accepted Yami Malik's Game of Darkness. Throughout the series Atem gives his victim the choice of either playing or not, and all of them (foolishly) accept because they consider him weak; in fact, that's the case with all of all three yami's - they only initiate the duel, but it's the duelist's choice whether or not they accept. Yami Malik would have most likely only willingly played unless he was the one who determined the rules of the game, not Atem.

...Not really. Atem, goads them and plays at their ego, but you really don't have to be a willing participant to a Game of Darkness at all. See Yami Bakura's "Dark RPG" Game of Darkness. Yugi and co. didn't even KNOW they were in a Game of Darkness until he inflicted a Penalty Game on them. Same goes for Shadi inflicting his Games of Darkness on those who he felt disrespected the Egyptian tombs. Games of Darkness can suck you in, regardless.

And sometimes, you can inflict a Punishment Game on someone even *without* the ritual of a Game of Darkness in the first place. For example, when Pegasus killed Bandit Keith when he tried to rob him for the prize money, and Pegasus "punished" Keith for cheating in the duel with Jounochi.

 

[ForceStealer]

I mean, he couldn't read through Atem's mind because of his FRIENDS?

Well, yes, THAT part was dumb. But the friends stuff is dumb every time it shows up.
You know what actually bugged me MORE about that part than the concept was the fact that it was COMPLETELY unnecessary. Atem drew Mystic Box, Pegasus can't read it because of friends, but Atem plays it immediately anyway. So would it have even mattered if Pegasus had read it?

And yes, Mako, the Magician of Black Chaos is awesome. And one of the occasional props to the English version, the way the music went silent just while you heard the whiff of the Magician twirling his scepter. Awesome.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well, the reason why Pegasus couldn't read Yugi/Atem's mind was because Atem was so focused and determined thanks to the bonds he held with his friends and partner, that it was the only thing Pegasus could see. It's cheesy yes, but if you steel your mind and focus it on something, then it kinda makes sense that someone who's peering into your mind would be unable to see nothing else but the thing your focusing on.

That's my two cents on that part of the duel anyways.

 

[ForceStealer]

But still unnecessary as Pegasus couldn't have done anything before he played it anyway.

The biggest problem with it is it essentially made the whole Mind Shuffle thing meaningless because they could have just been determined in the first place.

 

[Makoeyes987]

But still unnecessary as Pegasus couldn't have done anything before he played it anyway.

The biggest problem with it is it essentially made the whole Mind Shuffle thing meaningless because they could have just been determined in the first place.

Well the fact that Yugi nearly died, thanks to having his spirit energy exhausted trying to play the Game of Darkness thanks to the "Mind Shuffle, would naturally cause Atem to "limit break" and get even more driven and determined to win, thinking of Yugi and his friends there.

I'd say thanks to Yugi sacrificing himself to give him the key card to win, Atem was able to focus enough to pull that. Its so shonen, it works.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Another interesting thing about Games of Darkness is how they're treated in the YGO GX manga.

In GX, the main antagonist is

Spoiler

an evil ka spirit named Tragoedia. It was the ka belonging to a thief from Kul Elna (the town Thief King Bakura came from) who had secretly integrated into Pharaoh Atem's court as their astrologer, in hopes of being able to find the secrets of the royal tombs and treasures, and send word back to his fellow thieves. When he learned the truth of village's massacre, he tried to assassinate the pharaoh.

When the Seven Priests removed his ka from his body, the ka was still able to function and resist, and even when sealed in the stone tablet, it held its consciousness and will. So they had to break it apart and seal it away due to it still retaining its power.

When Atem and the Millennium Items, left the world of the living, a team of archeologists found Tragoedia's resting place, and it possessed them. And slowly but surely it made its way across the world, possessing the head of the American Duel Academy.

Tragoedia can give people the ability to play Games of Darkness by giving them a portion of his soul, sealed in stone, and thus possess them. And because of Atem and the others no longer existing in the world, he can run free.

Because of this guy, Games of Darkness still exist, and even now.

 

[ForceStealer]

And is all that completely ignored in the anime? (I haven't watched it)

 

[Makoeyes987]

And is all that completely ignored in the anime? (I haven't watched it)

The anime of YGO GX, and the manga of YGO GX, are entirely different stories, because they are two different continuities.

There's the manga continuity of YGO, and then the anime continuity of YGO.

In the manga, the card game is called "Monsters and Wizards." In the anime, its called "Duel Monsters."

Also in the manga, Pegasus is killed by Bakura when he steals his Millennium Eye, while in the anime, Pegasus is just weakened but survives.

Judai in the manga, gets Winged Kuriboh from his friend Koyo Hibiki (instead of Yugi, as in the anime), a Duel Monsters/Monsters and Wizards Pro League champ who taught him the game when Judai stayed in the hospital after breaking his leg playing baseball.

Spoiler

Koyo was given Winged Kuriboh by Pegasus, after winning a junior division duel of Magic in Wizards. Winged Kuriboh was originally a ka that was used to judge the sins of criminals by taking out their "heart" and putting it on the Millennium Scales to be weighed against the Feather of Ma'at. Winged Kuriboh used to be white, but when he melded with the heart of the Kul Elna thief, his fur turned black, due to sheer weight of his sins.

The games of Darkness in GX are about the same as the one in the YGO manga. Mainly, the person who gets the Punishment Game goes into a coma, being repeatedly tortured in their mind, and never wakes up, and they eventually will die. Kinda like what happened to Mai.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah but there's at least some similarity between DM and the manga, minus the extra arcs the anime put in. That's a pretty major plot point to just ignore for the GX anime.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well when I say that the GX anime, and the GX manga are different, I mean extremely different. It's basically an entirely new story, with the same characters.

The manga is more in line with the original YGO series than the anime. Judai's deck is different too, as is his past.

 

[ForceStealer]

Speaking of things that could or should have been done, in the first episode of the Doma arc, when the guy with the monocle uses the Seal, and Atem says something about knowing magic and the Puzzle lights up. Then the light goes out and the guy says something about the Seal being older so therefore better than the Millenium Items (which is also weird, why is older better?). My question has always been, from the moment I saw it, what was he trying to do?! He couldn't been trying to cancel it out or overpower it because...well, I dunno it was a card, it would technically count as breaking rules, wouldn't it?
So what was he trying to do? Show off? Start a Shadow Game? Blind the guy and run away? That's always bugged me, lol.

And then, after all that, the Millenium Puzzle does manage to overpower the Seal on two different occasions (once allowing Yugi to take Atems place when he loses, and again at the end...with some help from the friendship deus ex machina)...so what the hell?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Speaking of things that could or should have been done, in the first episode of the Doma arc, when the guy with the monocle uses the Seal, and Atem says something about knowing magic and the Puzzle lights up. Then the light goes out and he says something about the Seal being older so therefore better than the Millenium Items (which is also weird, why is older better?). My question has always been, from the moment I saw it, what was he trying to do?! He couldn't been trying to cancel it out or overpower it be...well, I dunno it was a card, it would technically count as breaking rules, wouldn't it?
So what was he trying to do? Show off? Start a Shadow Game? That's always bugged me, lol.

Yeah, he was trying to over power it, with the power of the Millennium Puzzle. I mean, why would he let himself be put into a Game of Darkness by the Orichalchos if he could stop it?

And the brokenness of the Orichalchos and the fact it trumps the originating items that created duels of darkness in the first place, not to mention the very game of Duel Monsters itself, is one of the many reasons I find Doma to be utterly cracked and stupid at times.

And then, after all that, the Millenium Puzzle does manage to overpower the Seal on two different occasions (once allowing Yugi to take Atems place when he loses, and again at the end...with some help from the friendship deus ex machina)...so what the hell?

Welcome to Doma!Fail.

Sometimes its best to just smile and nod at the Doma arc. Maybe Yugi's utter desperation, and the fact that he was trying to take Atem's place as the soul to be stolen, was what allowed for the puzzle to break through. And really, Yugi wasn't exactly *breaking* the seal. That seal was just a representation of the barrier that was created that kept him from being able to switch places with Atem during the duel. He only put himself back in his own body, and Atem back in the puzzle. The actual seal itself was still there in reality.

 

[ForceStealer]

Meh, I mostly just wanted my avatar to happen more often. I found the magic and the Millennium Items all having their own abilities and stuff far more interesting than the card game anyway.

Speaking of, resident fangirls, is there any fanart of Yugi completely decked out in all the items? By the end of the show he's got all of them, but he still only wears the Puzzle (the rest are in a freaking duffel bag, lol). I don't remember him even using any of the others besides that one vision from the Necklace. Always thought he'd look pretty neat sportin' all of them (except maybe the Scale). And I guess no one can use the Eye without shoving it into their head
But just think how good you'd be if you actually used all of them in the game. Read someone's mind with the Eye, see the future with the Necklace, read their soul with Key if you want, use the soul of the Pharoah to augment your skills. You'd be a dueling god!

 

[Makoeyes987]

Meh, I mostly just wanted my avatar to happen more often. I found the magic and the Millennium Items all having their own abilities and stuff far more interesting than the card game anyway.

Speaking of, resident fangirls, is there any fanart of Yugi completely decked out in all the items? By the end of the show he's got all of them, but he still only wears the Puzzle (the rest are in a freaking duffel bag, lol). I don't remember him even using any of the others besides that one vision from the Necklace. Always thought he'd look pretty neat sportin' all of them (except maybe the Scale). And I guess no one can use the Eye without shoving it into their head

Yup, to use the Millennium Eye, he'd have to gouge out one his own and put it in its place. So you can scratch that one out.

The necklace lost its power except for that brief moment.

And unless Yugi/Atem had intentions of brainwashing people, the Milennium Key and Rod really wouldn't do them any good XD

So that just leaves the Scales. And Yugi had no real desire to judge people's sins, nor did he have the Feather of Ma'at.

So yeah, there's really not much he could've done with them.

 

[ForceStealer]

Didn't the necklace just stop working for Isis? Since the Rod altered the future and she lost faith in it, or something.

And you could still just stab the guy with the Rod if you lost

 

[Makoeyes987]

Didn't the necklace just stop working for Isis? Since the Rod altered the future and she lost faith in it, or something.

And you could still just stab the guy with the Rod if you lost

Naw, it states the Necklace lost all of its power.

And now you're thinking like Yami Malik.