Yu-Gi-Oh!

[crack]

Naw, you can't *refuse* a Game of Darkness. No matter how badass you are.

Wait, really?

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Game

The person being challenged doesn't need to accept it - I believe that Ghost Kotsuzuka originally didn't want to duel Bakura, but after he was encouraged by his friends (and Yami Bakura), he did.

...Not really. Atem, goads them and plays at their ego, but you really don't have to be a willing participant to a Game of Darkness at all. See Yami Bakura's "Dark RPG" Game of Darkness. Yugi and co. didn't even KNOW they were in a Game of Darkness until he inflicted a Penalty Game on them. Same goes for Shadi inflicting his Games of Darkness on those who he felt disrespected the Egyptian tombs. Games of Darkness can suck you in, regardless.

But nevertheless, Yugi and the gang assumed at that point they were just playing an innocent game with Bakura - they were (unassumingly) doing that on their own free will. If Bakura could have had just directly forced a Shadow Game onto someone, I can't understand why they would bother with Ryou not wanting to play with anyone at the start of the manga because he was afraid what would happen to Yugi and his friends if he did - implying that the only way Bakura could get around to allow the Game of Darkness to control Yugi and his friends. And Shaadi is a bit different from the rest - his Game of Darkness involves the use of his Millennium Item.

So again, I go back to my original statement - Yami Malik would be allowed the choice of whether or not he'd want to duel Atem if he were the one to initiate it.

And sometimes, you can inflict a Punishment Game on someone even *without* the ritual of a Game of Darkness in the first place. For example, when Pegasus killed Bandit Keith when he tried to rob him for the prize money, and Pegasus "punished" Keith for cheating in the duel with Jounochi.

At that point Bandit Keith already accepted the initial game just by entering Duelist Kingdom.

Speaking of, resident fangirls, is there any fanart of Yugi completely decked out in all the items? By the end of the show he's got all of them, but he still only wears the Puzzle (the rest are in a freaking duffel bag, lol). I don't remember him even using any of the others besides that one vision from the Necklace. Always thought he'd look pretty neat sportin' all of them (except maybe the Scale). And I guess no one can use the Eye without shoving it into their head

Hmmm, I'll look at my folders. I'm not sure if I have him pimped out in all the Millennium Items though, I'll check; do you want Atem (the Non-Egyptian version) or just Yugi?

 

[ForceStealer]

Doesn't matter to me

 

[Makoeyes987]

Wait, really?

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Game

The person being challenged doesn't need to accept it - I believe that Ghost Kotsuzuka originally didn't want to duel Bakura, but after he was encouraged by his friends (and Yami Bakura), he did.

I've given examples though of folks who never even accepted or tried to escape. Such as Shadi mind raping and killing the museum curator for defiling the tomb, or Pegasus putting Yugi through a Game of Darkness before even knowing it.

Yami Malik even says that the shadows won't go until someone's soul is devoured.

But nevertheless, Yugi and the gang assumed at that point they were just playing an innocent game with Bakura - they were (unassumingly) doing that on their own free will. If Bakura could have had just directly forced a Shadow Game onto someone, I can't understand why they would bother with Ryou not wanting to play with anyone at the start of the manga because he was afraid what would happen to Yugi and his friends if he did - implying that the only way Bakura could get around to allow the Game of Darkness to control Yugi and his friends. And Shaadi is a bit different from the rest - his Game of Darkness involves the use of his Millennium Item.

Most Games of Darkness *require* a Millennium Item, or at least, some form of magical artifact. Yami Malik even says to Atem when he tries to step into Yami Malik's Shadow Duel with Mai that "no one can stop a Game of Darkness."

Yami Bakura *did* force a Game of Darkness on Yugi and his friends, when he usurped control of Ryou's body, led them to the game, and started the game, with them being none the wiser. You can't just "refuse" it. Once the initiator starts it, its done. Consent isn't required. XD

So again, I go back to my original statement - Yami Malik would be allowed the choice of whether or not he'd want to duel Atem if he were the one to initiate it.

You can't refuse though. Once the game is initiated, there's no escape. When Ghost Kotsuzuka was in the Game of Darkness with Bakura, and he tried to back out, he couldn't get away. He was stuck in that space. Same goes for Yugi and Atem with Pegasus. Games of Darkness are not escapable. In 5Ds, a Duel of Darkness is surrounded by a barrier of impenetrable flame that no one can escape from until a victor is decided.

At that point Bandit Keith already accepted the initial game just by entering Duelist Kingdom.

Yeah, but a Penalty Game usually comes from a Game of Darkness's conclusion and the "loser" of the game, being dealt the penalty. There are several other instances where Millennium Item holders have inflicted penalty games just on the fly. Such as Yugi making the evil teacher who was about to expel Honda for giving a romantic puzzle to Miho, imagine her face was falling off, or Bakura making the gym teacher into a doll for trying to make Ryou have to cut his hair. I mean, it's sometimes not even necessary to even play a "game." Sometimes, offending a Millennium Item holder or threatening them with violence is enough to evoke their wrath without any lead in or preparation.

 

[crack]

I've given examples though of folks who never even accepted or tried to escape. Such as Shadi mind raping and killing the museum curator for defiling the tomb, or Pegasus putting Yugi through a Game of Darkness before even knowing it.

The museum curator accepted just simply by answering Shaadi's question. Like I said, Shaadi doesn't really count because he can't be affected even if he were to lose, because his Shadow Games only exclusively judge other people's hearts, not his. He doesn't have the risk of receiving a Penalty Game like his victims do. I'm not sure which Game of Darkness you're talking about, but the first duel Pegasus and Atem had was because he accepted it under coercion. On their second duel, he willingly duels Pegasus to save his grandpa, giving Pegasus the upper hand.

Most Games of Darkness *require* a Millennium Item, or at least, some form of magical artifact. Yami Malik even says to Atem when he tries to step into Yami Malik's Shadow Duel with Mai that "no one can stop a Game of Darkness."

I know no one can stop a Game of Darkness, but it's up to them whether or not they want to duel in a Game of Darkness in the first place. And not always willingly, as shown through some episodes.

Yami Bakura *did* force a Game of Darkness on Yugi and his friends, when he usurped control of Ryou's body, led them to the game, and started the game, with them being none the wiser. You can't just "refuse" it. Once the initiator starts it, its done. Consent isn't required. XD

Not knowingly. I know consent isn't required formally, but because Yugi and his friends were under the impression they'd be playing a normal game under Bakura, that's how they accepted willingly. Bakura's twisted like that, and he does the same thing to his previous victims as well.

You can't refuse though. Once the game is initiated, there's no escape. When Ghost Kotsuzuka was in the Game of Darkness with Bakura, and he tried to back out, he couldn't get away. He was stuck in that space. Same goes for Yugi and Atem with Pegasus. Games of Darkness are not escapable. In 5Ds, a Duel of Darkness is surrounded by a barrier of impenetrable flame that no one can escape from until a victor is decided.

But that's because Ghost Kostsuzuka accepted the duel with Bakura without knowing it was a much sinister game he'd be playing. Again, you don't have to directly know you're playing a Game of Darkness if you already accept the duel, which is seen throughout the series. It's inevitable.

5Ds concept is not the same.

Yeah, but a Penalty Game usually comes from a Game of Darkness's conclusion and the "loser" of the game, being dealt the penalty. There are several other instances where Millennium Item holders have inflicted penalty games just on the fly. Such as Yugi making the evil teacher who was about to expel Honda for giving a romantic puzzle to Miho, imagine her face was falling off, or Bakura making the gym teacher into a doll for trying to make Ryou have to cut his hair. I mean, it's sometimes not even necessary to even play a "game." Sometimes, offending a Millennium Item holder or threatening them with violence is enough to evoke their wrath without any lead in or preparation.

Wait, so then what Game of Darkness's were they playing then? Because the Game of Darkness's would then require that the other player at risk as well, which Atem wasn't when he was confronting that evil bitch or when Bakura turned the gym teacher into a doll. And I agree that the Millennium Item holders can inflict Penalty Games without even playing a game, but a Game of Darkness is where both players lives are at risk.

CRAP NOW I HAVE TO REWATCH EVERY SINGLE EPISODE AGAIN. Thanks a lot.

Doesn't matter to me

Alright.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The museum curator accepted just simply by answering Shaadi's question. Like I said, Shaadi doesn't really count because he can't be affected even if he were to lose, because his Shadow Games only exclusively judge other people's hearts, not his. He doesn't have the risk of receiving a Penalty Game like his victims do. I'm not sure which Game of Darkness you're talking about, but the first duel Pegasus and Atem had was because he accepted it under coercion. On their second duel, he willingly duels Pegasus to save his grandpa, giving Pegasus the upper hand.

LOL, okay. If all it takes to be dragged into a Game of Darkness, is to answer a question, or unwittingly participating in any imaginable way, then isn't that pretty much, without consent? It's not like you're given an option to say "no" with any informed consent or knowledge. You're *in* it, whether you like it, know it, or not. A Game of Darkness, is a Game of Darkness. The "game" was basically a game of "truth or lie." Even if there really isn't a "risk" its still a game...a ritual..using dark magic.

I know no one can stop a Game of Darkness, but it's up to them whether or not they want to duel in a Game of Darkness in the first place. And not always willingly, as shown through some episodes.

But again, consent isn't necessary. Consent requires informed knowledge and a span to say no without any jeopardy. That's never, ever shown.

Not knowingly. I know consent isn't required formally, but because Yugi and his friends were under the impression they'd be playing a normal game under Bakura, that's how they accepted willingly. Bakura's twisted like that, and he does the same thing to his previous victims as well.

But that's my point. XD

You can't escape or turn it down. You're either not given a choice, or by the time you realize it, it's already underway. XD

But that's because Ghost Kostsuzuka accepted the duel with Bakura without knowing it was a much sinister game he'd be playing. Again, you don't have to directly know you're playing a Game of Darkness if you already accept the duel, which is seen throughout the series. It's inevitable.

...But that's essentially the same thing. Heck, all it took for Mai to get into the Game of Darkness was standing in the same *ring* with Yami Malik. She had no opportunity at all to say no. He just raised his Rod up, and the darkness surrounded them. How could she refuse or back out? Omg, that sounds...so damn dirty. Wow.

5Ds concept is not the same.

Uh huh, of course.

Wait, so then what Game of Darkness's were they playing then? Because the Game of Darkness's would then require that the other player at risk as well, which Atem wasn't when he was confronting that evil bitch or when Bakura turned the gym teacher into a doll. And I agree that the Millennium Item holders can inflict Penalty Games without even playing a game, but a Game of Darkness is where both players lives are at risk.

Well I was just saying that you don't necessarily need to be in a "game" to get inflicted with a penalty. No consent or anything necessary. All it takes is just pissing them off.

CRAP NOW I HAVE TO REWATCH EVERY SINGLE EPISODE AGAIN. Thanks a lot.

No problem.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Just tossing this out, there's an old but pretty badass mega-crossover fic of Yugioh, Digimon, Pokemon and Card Captors. It uses a card tournament format, where the mysterious Zero Muto has set up a tournament on his private island with the promise of ultimate power to the winner. The card game format is totally revamped, actions and battles happen in real-time. Like how Digimon in Season 3 fought while the Tamer slashed cards, imagine that but with Yugioh, Pokemon and Card Captor monsters and cards too (real Pokemon exist, but they also have cards).

Zero's ultimate plan is revealed to

Spoiler

summon Exodia and rule the world. Jeri/Juri from Digimon is the human vessel for Exodia's spirit, and its implied Yami Yugi had a crush on her when he knew her in Ancient Egypt. Zero is using the digital world and the Shadow Realm's powers to turn the entire tournament into a Shadow Game, and using the energy of the duelists in the tournament he'll gather enough power to manifest Exodia from Jeri.

So yeah, its a cool story, I could link if you like. I don't remember specifics besides the general plot, but there's a lot of cool fight scenes, including where Yami brawls with a Giant Gengar, and Henry battles Kaiba. Rika and Ash get a romantic subplot, and Henry and Joey hang out. Zero is a cool villain too, they don't reveal who he is until the very end, but when they reveal his true identity it's a real doozie.

 

[crack]

LOL, okay. If all it takes to be dragged into a Game of Darkness, is to answer a question, or unwittingly participating in any imaginable way, then isn't that pretty much, without consent? It's not like you're given an option to say "no" with any informed consent or knowledge. You're *in* it, whether you like it, know it, or not. A Game of Darkness, is a Game of Darkness. The "game" was basically a game of "truth or lie." Even if there really isn't a "risk" its still a game...a ritual..using dark magic.

But again, consent isn't necessary. Consent requires informed knowledge and a span to say no without any jeopardy. That's never, ever shown.

But that's my point. XD

You can't escape or turn it down. You're either not given a choice, or by the time you realize it, it's already underway. XD

...But that's essentially the same thing. Heck, all it took for Mai to get into the Game of Darkness was standing in the same *ring* with Yami Malik. She had no opportunity at all to say no. He just raised his Rod up, and the darkness surrounded them. How could she refuse or back out? Omg, that sounds...so damn dirty. Wow.

Will reply to all this as soon as I rewatch all the episodes, including season 0 and just some manga volumes. The more I talk to you the more I confuse myself.


Also, Atem, I'm afraid I don't have any fanart of him with all of the Millennium Items.

 

[ForceStealer]

Damn, well thanks for looking

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Just tossing this out, there's an old but pretty badass mega-crossover fic of Yugioh, Digimon, Pokemon and Card Captors. It uses a card tournament format, where the mysterious Zero Muto has set up a tournament on his private island with the promise of ultimate power to the winner. The card game format is totally revamped, actions and battles happen in real-time. Like how Digimon in Season 3 fought while the Tamer slashed cards, imagine that but with Yugioh, Pokemon and Card Captor monsters and cards too (real Pokemon exist, but they also have cards).

Zero's ultimate plan is revealed to

Spoiler

summon Exodia and rule the world. Jeri/Juri from Digimon is the human vessel for Exodia's spirit, and its implied Yami Yugi had a crush on her when he knew her in Ancient Egypt. Zero is using the digital world and the Shadow Realm's powers to turn the entire tournament into a Shadow Game, and using the energy of the duelists in the tournament he'll gather enough power to manifest Exodia from Jeri.

So yeah, its a cool story, I could link if you like. I don't remember specifics besides the general plot, but there's a lot of cool fight scenes, including where Yami brawls with a Giant Gengar, and Henry battles Kaiba. Rika and Ash get a romantic subplot, and Henry and Joey hang out. Zero is a cool villain too, they don't reveal who he is until the very end, but when they reveal his true identity it's a real doozie.

Can't say I like the sound of the RikaxAsh thing, but otherwise it sounds fuckin' awesome.

Link, please!

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Can't say I like the sound of the RikaxAsh thing, but otherwise it sounds fuckin' awesome.

Link, please!

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1291211/1/DDM_Digimon_and_Duel_Monsters

 

[Celes Chere]

Jaden's hair is not main-character status worthy.

I know, rite? Fucking faail.

@you still- That comic was so sweet. *sniffles*

Give her a break.

No. She fails too. She makes me tear my hair out in the Manga, annoying is pretty much the only way I can describe her, and also the nicest way.

Jou's duel against Marik was better, frankly.

OMG a thousand times yes.

is there any fanart of Yugi completely decked out in all the items?

Good question, but I have never seen a fanart like that. HEY CRACK I'LL RACE YOU TO SEE WHO CAN FIND IT FIRST.

 

[ForceStealer]

Good question, but I have never seen a fanart like that.

And why the hell not?! See, if these people spent less time obsessing with their yaoi fantasies and more time drawing awesome stuff, I'd take fanart more seriously.

 

[Celes Chere]

Aww, come on bby. Don't deny your hidden feelings.

 

[ForceStealer]

Lol. See this is why, even if I could draw, I wouldn't make it as a fanartist because I'd think of decking Yugi out in all the Millenium Items, Mind Crushing the world before I thought of Jounouchi and Bakura goin' at it

 

[crack]

Good question, but I have never seen a fanart like that. HEY CRACK I'LL RACE YOU TO SEE WHO CAN FIND IT FIRST.

You challenging me?

It doesn't exist if I don't have it. Or at least, any of good quality.

And why the hell not?! See, if these people spent less time obsessing with their yaoi fantasies and more time drawing awesome stuff, I'd take fanart more seriously.

There is a lot of awesome fanart out there, you're just asking for the wrong things.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well of course I'm generalizing, but its not like I'm asking for something particularly odd. And you also have to admit that there is an overwhelming amount of yaoi.

Actually, forget yaoi, I'd argue too much fanart is wasted on pairings in general where it could be spent on more badass stuff *dodges tomato*

 

[crack]

Well of course I'm generalizing, but its not like I'm asking for something particularly odd. And you also have to admit that there is an overwhelming amount of yaoi.

I would imagine that Atem sporting all the Millennium Items would look rather odd, especially because one of them is worn by a women. Unless he's carry all that shit, it'd look a bit ridiculous to see him have the Ring and Puzzle and Necklace over his neck, while he's holding the Rod and Key on one hand and holding the Scale and Eye on the other.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's more general fanart and single-character fanart than yaoi. It depends on what you mean by pairing fanart though - two characters being portrayed romantically, or just... two characters like the one I have on my signature? If you mean the second, there's definitely more yaoi out there (for YGO, at least).

 

[ForceStealer]

I would imagine that Atem sporting all the Millennium Items would look rather odd, especially because one of them is worn by a women.

You're saying this about a kid who wears belts on his neck with surprising regularity.

Replace the bondage with the Millennium Necklace, along with the Ring and the Puzzle (one of them on a shorter rope than the other), the Eye in his head, the Key in one hand, the Rod in the other, and the scale...on a table next to him The stone in Kul Elna is wearing all of them, dammit.

(and I mean romantically)

 

[crack]

You're saying this about a kid who wears belts on his neck with surprising regularity.

Replace the bondage with the Millennium Necklace, along with the Ring and the Puzzle (one of them on a shorter rope than the other), the Eye in his head, the Key in one hand, the Rod in the other, and the scale...on a table next to him The stone in Kul Elna is wearing all of them, dammit.

(and I mean romantically)

What does Yugi's taste in fashion have to do with the artists?
The closest I have is Atem holding the Millennium Ring, sorry. But if there's something else you want I'll post.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well it looks like we have some more new clips from the opening and ending. Looks like this might be the last though.

Behold! Elemental Hero Neos Knight!

This looks like one of the coolest moments in the duel, right here. Paradox fusing with Sin Truth Dragon looks fucking awesome. It looks like it's painful, which makes sense since he's paying half his life to do it. Hell, his badass D-Wheel blows up in the process.

Another thing I noticed was that when he activated Paradigm Shift...it split into 3 cards and they had the color of the God cards. What an interesting little allusion there...

 

[Celes Chere]

Yes, Crack. I am challenging you. >=D I haven't come close to finding anything like it, though. T^T And not all fanart is Yaoi, just all of the fanart in my folder is Yaoi! With random JoeyMai and AkiYusei.

It's not my fault all the straight pairings suck in YGO. :/

But yeah, there's plenty of badass fanart out there, so I don't know what you are smoking. Like this:

Spoiler: look at me lol

 

[crack]

Nope, still haven't seen one anywhere. I doubt there is one of what FS described, unless you or I were to draw it. But you're right, there's a lot of YGO fanart that aren't yaoi.

I wish there was a YGO fanart thread besides the one on 4chan. I would spam this thread buuuuuuuut.

And for the record, he is smoking crack.

This looks like one of the coolest moments in the duel, right here. Paradox fusing with Sin Truth Dragon looks fucking awesome. It looks like it's painful, which makes sense since he's paying half his life to do it. Hell, his badass D-Wheel blows up in the process.

That's a fucking huge monster. And he temporarily does look like he's in pain.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's a really good fanart of Yugi there. Very nice. Love that Dark Magician Girl sig as well. Speaking of Dark Magician Girl, did you ever see her YGO 10th Anniversary Artwork for her card that was done by Kazuki Takahashi personally? Same goes for Dark Magician too. It looks so cool.

You know a lot of people love to give Judai crap, and while he is kinda silly and dense, he certainly grew the hell up in Season 4 and became a badass thanks to Yubel fusing with him, that's why.

I just love Judai in episode 172, here. Basically pulling a John McClane as he tries to escape the explosive deathtrap that is the Kaiba Corp building after defeating Saiou in a duel stadium that oddly enough, looks like the stadium Yugi and Kaiba had their first duel in, in episode 1. I mean, fuck. It pretty much shows the guy's a spry little bastard when he needs to be. Which also explains how he's able to basically leap from building to building as he tries to dodge Cyber End Dragon trying to kill him in the 10th Anniversary movie.

Also, an interesting bit from the YGO 10th Anniversary animation book has been translated, in regards to the final episode of GX. Namely, the duel between Yugi and Judai.

Spoiler

In the movie Guide, it is revealed that the Yugi that appeared in the GX Finale was actually Older Yugi, whom had supplanted his memories into a replica of his past self. Judai never went into the past, rather, Yugi had somehow initiated some Shadow magic of some sort, and had entered Judai's mind, and implanted his own memories of the YGOS1 time. By doing so, he could duel Judai with cards and abilities he no longer had. It was all an illusion.

Said info comes from here. That being said, it seems like Yugi post DM is still quite the special snowflake. And his deck holds some magic.

 

[ForceStealer]

Also, an interesting bit from the YGO 10th Anniversary animation book has been translated, in regards to the final episode of GX. Namely, the duel between Yugi and Judai.

Spoiler

In the movie Guide, it is revealed that the Yugi that appeared in the GX Finale was actually Older Yugi, whom had supplanted his memories into a replica of his past self. Judai never went into the past, rather, Yugi had somehow initiated some Shadow magic of some sort, and had entered Judai's mind, and implanted his own memories of the YGOS1 time. By doing so, he could duel Judai with cards and abilities he no longer had. It was all an illusion.

Said info comes from here. That being said, it seems like Yugi post DM is still quite the special snowflake. And his deck holds some magic.

Spoiler

Really? That's...interesting. How could he still have magic without the Millennium Puzzle? Also odd that he'd create that whole illusion and pretend to be both young Yugi and Yami Yugi, lol. I suppose that does mean he can still see Atem when he wants (Awww).
Don't get me wrong, that's pretty cool, just...unexpected.

 

[ForceStealer]

All right, so I finished my rewatch of DM. I have a question about the Memory Arc.

Is Atem's and Bakura's Shadow Game actively affecting the past, or no?
Now, obviously, the answer's yes as they show the modern time being ravaged by storms due to Bakura's ensuing victory in the past (which...doesn't really make any sense, but that's another matter).
So the question becomes, how? As they state several times, they are in Atem's memory. This is most apparent through the fact that no one seems to know his name, further they don't seem to think anything of the fact that they don't know it. Further evidence exists in that Yugi and friends can affect the world through thought.

I understand that the Penalty Game might be changing the past, but how could the future be affected as they're playing? Even so, given that Atem still wins, why would the future be affected at all?

This isn't mean to be nitpicking really, just curious.