Yu-Gi-Oh!

[Makoeyes987]

All right, so I finished my rewatch of DM. I have a question about the Memory Arc.

Is Atem's and Bakura's Shadow Game actively affecting the past, or no?
Now, obviously, the answer's yes as they show the modern time being ravaged by storms due to Bakura's ensuing victory in the past (which...doesn't really make any sense, but that's another matter).
So the question becomes, how? As they state several times, they are in Atem's memory. This is most apparent through the fact that no one seems to know his name, further they don't seem to think anything of the fact that they don't know it. Further evidence exists in that Yugi and friends can affect the world through thought.

Actually no, the "Ultimate RPG of Darkness" has no bearing on the actual timeline or past of reality. The reason why the present was being changed was because the result of the game would either ensure Atem would destroy Zorc for good (which he failed to do in the past) or Zorc would be revived in the modern world and would be free.

They were only in a fabricated, simulated world based upon the memories of the Pharaoh and Zorc/Bakura as the Game Master.

I understand that the Penalty Game might be changing the past, but how could the future be affected as they're playing? Even so, given that Atem still wins, why would the future be affected at all?

This isn't mean to be nitpicking really, just curious.

The Penalty Game was death, and the winner being able to make it back into reality alive.

 

[ForceStealer]

And Atem's and Seto's super brief duel with Seto under mind control was simply a function of things happening differently then they did in the real past? I thought it was weird that for all the times they flashed back to Seto's sorcerers fighting Atem's sorcerers and Seto fighting Atem they never actually showed it happen in the actual memory world.
In fact they said Seto was the next Pharoah anyway, and a good one.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And Atem's and Seto's super brief duel with Seto under mind control was simply a function of things happening differently then they did in the real past? I thought it was weird that for all the times they flashed back to Seto's sorcerers fighting Atem's sorcerers and Seto fighting Atem they never actually showed it happen in the actual memory world.
In fact they said Seto was the next Pharoah anyway, and a good one.

All those flashbacks in Battle City where we see evil sorcerer Seto dueling against Atem with his own army of sorcerers were filler flashbacks that were not shown in the original manga. In fact, they contradict what the facts are of the past. So I wouldn't put too much stock in those flashbacks of Atem and Seto dueling, especially when we see Seto and Atem with pale white skin, when their Egyptian appearances are rather dark skinned.

Yes, in the past, Seto and Atem *did* duel briefly thanks to Seto being brainwashed by Akinadin's evil spirit, but it was freed thanks to Kisara/Blue Eyes White Dragon, and he snapped out of it. Atem made Seto the next Pharaoh since he was dying and yes, he was the next Pharaoh after Atem who helped Egypt prosper after disaster.

Seto was the one who had the Memory Tablet carved, with the poignant poem of death and friendship on it.

 

[ForceStealer]

...so the anime just completely made them up...?

Not that that's uncommon, but usually if they do something like that they follow through with it rather than hope the viewers forget.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

All those flashbacks in Battle City where we see evil sorcerer Seto dueling against Atem with his own army of sorcerers were filler flashbacks that were not shown in the original manga. In fact, they contradict what the facts are of the past. So I wouldn't put too much stock in those flashbacks of Atem and Seto dueling, especially when we see Seto and Atem with pale white skin, when their Egyptian appearances are rather dark skinned.

That always bugged me too. I hated how at the beginning of Season 2, they show that Ishizu flashback where Kaiba is battling on of Atem's mooks, and then Season 3, another different flashback...Season 5, everything we were told prior to this was thrown out. They hype this huge, destined clash of rivals that will occur again, and in the end it was a huge downer. That tablet and everything we were told about Kaiba and Yugi's rivalry in Seasons 2-3 ultimately meant nothing, because Set was completely loyal to Atem.

I had a theory early on in the run - the spirit of the Millennium Ring was Set's spirit. Think about that, the spirit was Kaiba's past self, and it was Set who was the Big Bad Atem defeated in the past when he rebelled and tried to take over the kingdom. Imagine how that would have gone for a sec, no Zorc, no Thief King, just Set.

I think it would have been glorious, as opposed to Zorc who was just a Giant Space Flee from nowhere really. Or if you must have Zorc, cut out the Thief King and make Set the one conspiring with Zorc to rule the throne. And we can still have Aknadin, turning the loyal Set evil and tempting him to the dark side. Just pissed me off how Set ultimately had very little to do with the plot in the Millennium World when all prior seasons seemed to indicate he would be pivotal to the events of the past. And it would have made the Yugi-Kaiba rivalry more important, because IMO that was the one subplot consistent across the entire run of the series, that was the constant and it could and should have been the focus of the final story arc.

BTW, random - I made up the name "Barakhan" for the Thief King in my fanfictions. No clue why or where I thought of the name, but yeah, I call him Barakhan.

 

[ForceStealer]

Good luck convincing the fangirls to get rid of Bakura

But anyway I agree, Ishizu in season II was completely wrong. Nothing like that happened at all. There was that little mini-duel that lasted about 5 seconds, and somehow the Millennium Necklace was completely wrong? With no explanation? I know that's just a function of the anime and the manga, but come on.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

You could attribute this to the anime art style, but this is also a rather odd thing I noticed. The pharaoh's tablet? Do a cross-season comparison.

Also note in the Season 2 flashback, it looks like Set has the Millennium Key, which I know ended up with Shadi but still.

 

[ForceStealer]

Where? Just in that box next to him?

It is funny how he goes from just holding a generic staff to the Millennium Rod.

And another thing, not only were Ishizu's visions wrong, can't she READ ancient Egyptian? She could've just...you know, read the tablet

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Where? Just in that box next to him?

I meant in the second set of screencaps. The rest, exactly. They add the Eye of Ra, the "fins", and make the staff shorter. That's a pretty huge edit that tells me they obviously didn't plan for the Millenium Rod to belong to Set when they first introduced that tablet. If they *had* shown him holding the Rod, the recognizable Rod, it would have been a good thing to just gloss over and bring up later so fans can look back and go "ooooooooooh." Instead, fans look back and say "heeeeeeeeey!"

 

[Makoeyes987]

Actually, Zorc was heavily foreshadowed in the beginning of the manga, during the first Dark RPG Bakura threw everyone in. His character as Gamemaster was "Dark Master Zorc" who was the ancient evil that threw Monster World into ruin. He called it his "alter ego."

I'm not sure how you can say Set had very little to do with Millennium World, seeing as how he was one of the main Priests who helped Atem defeat Zorc/Bakura, and his subplot led to Akinadin falling into darkness with Zorc, with Set nearly killing Atem thanks to his father brainwashing him. Set was pretty pivotal.

Yugi and Kaiba were rivals, never enemies. At least, in terms of hatred and the fate of the world. Bakura was always the Millennium enemy who was slowly but surely taking each and every Millennium Item for himself, trying to kill Yugi, all of which led to the build up for the final confrontation in the ultimate Game of Darkness. Isis stated in Battle City that Priest Set/Seto was Atem's friend deep down, and that the memory tablet held one last poem for Atem:

Spoiler

"The corpse sinks to the floor...
The vessel becomes sand, becomes dust.
Even the brightest gold, even the sharpest sword...
Is wrapped int he sheath of time...
Woe to the Pharoah, for his body lacks even his name..

Time is the battlefield of souls...
I cry the song of battle, the song of a friend...
To the place far away where souls meet...
Guide me.

The anime screwed things up with the flashbacks because they were running too close to the manga and were basically having to fill in the blanks with what they thought. Those inconsistencies don't exist at all in the original manga. The huge destined clash between Yugi and Kaiba, was their match in Battle City. That was "the place far away where souls meet" and once that happened, their rivalry was resolved. Kaiba finally realized that he couldn't just keep chasing hatred and winning at the expense of his past. That he had to accept not just the future, but the past as well. Hence why he was able to let go and move onto his dream of building Kaibaland.

 

[ForceStealer]

lol, Bakura's an RPG nerd

Thanks for the manga connections, Mako, its pretty interesting. Maybe I'll get around to reading it someday.

It's funny with Set/Seto as, from the Japanese, there's absolutely no way to tell the difference. I know that Set is an Egyptian god, of course. It's just funny. They could double the t in Japanese but I'm still not sure which spelling would suggest what in English.
Just like Malik and Marik, again, you can tell because of the word play with Arabic, but strictly from Japanese, there's no way to know.

 

[Makoeyes987]

lol, Bakura's an RPG nerd

Thanks for the manga connections, Mako, its pretty interesting. Maybe I'll get around to reading it someday.

It's funny with Set/Seto as, from the Japanese, there's absolutely no way to tell the difference. I know that Set is an Egyptian god, of course. It's just funny. They could double the t in Japanese but I'm still not sure which spelling would suggest what in English.
Just like Malik and Marik, again, you can tell because of the word play with Arabic, but strictly from Japanese, there's no way to know.

That he is.

And yeah, good ole' Japanese is confusing like that. XD

 

[DrakeClawfang]

The anime screwed things up with the flashbacks because they were running too close to the manga and were basically having to fill in the blanks with what they thought. Those inconsistencies don't exist at all in the original manga.'

I really need to find some scans.

The huge destined clash between Yugi and Kaiba, was their match in Battle City. That was "the place far away where souls meet" and once that happened, their rivalry was resolved. Kaiba finally realized that he couldn't just keep chasing hatred and winning at the expense of his past. That he had to accept not just the future, but the past as well. Hence why he was able to let go and move onto his dream of building Kaibaland.

I get what you're saying but it doesn't work for me that Kaiba would just go "oh well, he's better" and the rivalry that had been a constant subplot for three seasons was just dropped.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Because, as Kaiba said himself, his real opponent wasn't Yugi, it was the hatred and spectre of his stepfather that he was trying to overcome. Yugi was just the fixation and representation of the past. As long as he felt burdened by the hatred of constantly trying to bury the past and erase it, he'd never be able to move on and be happy with the future. Yugi was his rival but not his enemy.

 

[crack]

This is a bit late, but I was wondering what all of you thought of this article:

http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=3300

 

[Makoeyes987]

This is a bit late, but I was wondering what all of you thought of this article:

http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=3300

 

[Lord Noctis]

You need more facepalms. This isn't enough.

 

[crack]

Obligatory.

 

[ForceStealer]

I can't get over how recent that article is...how long has it been since DM's been off the air? The movie came out...4? 5 years ago?

Boy, they sure are vigilant.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Obligatory.

I demand this be added to the facepalm gallery!

 

[ForceStealer]

So let it be written, so let it be done.

 

[crack]

I need some confirmation. Is Yugi the reincarnation of Pharaoh Atem, just how Priest Seth is the reincarnation of Seto?

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'd say he is, considering they look nearly identical and share numerous traits. But he's his own individual.

Sorta like Kikyou and Kagome.

It's never explicitly stated, but the story kinda says so for Yugi, Ryou Bakura, and Seto Kaiba.

Oh, and Isis, and Rishid. And...Sugoroku.

 

[ForceStealer]

Weird how reincarnations don't follow genetics
I was never quite sure, did they all have some blood connection to Egypt? No matter how trace? Or was it purely spiritual.

And you know I never actually put Rishid together with...whichever guy he was in Ancient Egypt (Millenium Key?)

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm dumb, don't mind me. I meant Shadi. Shadi is the reincarnation or descendant of Shada.