Yu-Gi-Oh!

[DrakeClawfang]

That's what confused the shit out of me too! It wasn't Yubel though, it was Martin. Even before Martin became possessed by Yubel, he said his favorite card in his deck was "Phantasmal Martyrs." A Sacred Beasts support card. HOW THE HELL DOES HE HAVE SUPPORT CARDS FOR A GROUP OF CARDS THAT AREN'T EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE KNOWN ABOUT AND HIDDEN? That just was fucking stupid.

I know right?

I always figured that the Sacred Beasts could represent fallen angels from Heaven who raised hell on Earth and in order to defeat them, they had to be sealed away in said Emerald Tablet and good ole' Pegasus decided that it'd be a nifty idea to make THEM into cards too. I mean, the names of each of the Sacred Beasts corresponds to Judeo-Christian angels or figures:

Raviel = a romanization of Raziel, an archangel associated with the Sephira Chokmah.

Hamon = a prince of Heaven, mentioned in the Book of Enoch.

Uria = Uriah, the name of a Biblical Prophet in the Book of Jeremiah.

Armityle = Armisael an angel who's supposed to be called on to assist in childbirth, from the Talmund.

I mean, the creators had SOMETHING mythological/religious in mind, when they named these monsters, but they never actually did anything with it. Which pisses me off, cause it could've been so cool.

My idea was that the Beasts were born from TKB's Diabound, using the power of the Gods it had absorbed during his battle with Atem.

The GX manga is so fucking good and better written than the anime, it's not even funny. Manjoume is a fucking badass in the manga. And Kaiser Ryo is just...amazingly badass. The way he pwned him was fucking epic. And Cyber Eltanin is truly my all time favorite Cyber monster. It's just fucking amazing. I like that the manga let Ryo keep his deck, essentially the same, except gave him new monsters and support. The Cyber archetype was always really cool.

I liked Eltanin, except for Emergency Cyber. I hate cards that single-handedly create infinate combos (glares at Fucking Crow). BTW, I've renamed Crow in my mind. His last name is Crow, his first name is now "Fucking." So as far as I'm concerned, he's not Crow Hogan, he's Fucking Crow. And Fucking Crow fucking sucks.

EDIT - should we maybe rename the thread? How about "Generic Thread For Children's Card Games. They're Srs bzns!"

 

[crack]

I'd agree with you if we were only evaluating 5Ds on its first two seasons, but I gotta call bullshit on that one. The third season is close to becoming a trainwreck in terms of its plot and consistency. And whatever relevence it had connected to Incan culture and mythology has given up the ghost for giant robots and transformers.

I'll take your word for it, because I actually have to catch with half of Season 3 myself, but I assume they're introducing us to the Incan culture and mythology for a reason - maybe a build up like DM had?

A digital penguin dueling Anzu makes more sense than a giant cyborg shrimp living in a computer that's somehow orchestrating or behind the current events of robot people trying to create a circuit out of highways. DM had some strangeness to it, but those were usually confined to filler, and in the realm of "virtual world" arcs. Which while odd, at least remained confined to the recesses of virtual reality. The shit in 5Ds is real, which makes the technology insanity of DM look pretty damn tame.

Probably because it's set in the future...?

If you can create an army of robots to do your bidding and ride motorcycles, then why the fuck are you even having them bother with the pretense of playing cards? Give them some fucking laser guns or some shit.

Why would you play card game when you could just do the same in in DM and GX? I mean, hell, card games are serious business in the whole YGO universe.

Oh yeah, because even with this infinite technology, everything still comes down to cards. LOL rite. It's just incredibly jarring. But I'll still give this third season a chance to see where it goes.

Dude, most episodes of Yu-Gi-Oh are like that. I mean, why did Yugi not bother calling the cops on Pegasus when he kidnapped his grandfather's soul?

And ALL THOSE MAGICAL MILLENNIUM ITEMS, YET NO ONE USES THEM TO THEIR FULL EXTENT AND INSTEAD THEY PLAY CARD GAMES. Malik is a stupid bastard, why couldn't have have just taken all of Yugi's loved ones and killed them off slowly, to the point where the Pharaoh himself would have to obey every whim of Malik's orders and die a torturous, humiliating death?

card games > logic

EDIT:

EDIT - should we maybe rename the thread? How about "Generic Thread For Children's Card Games. They're Srs bzns!"

I agree with this. But I love how active this thread is again, even if there are only five other people posting.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Why would you play card game when you could just do the same in in DM and GX? I mean, hell, card games are serious business in the whole YGO universe.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I know right?

My idea was that the Beasts were born from TKB's Diabound, using the power of the Gods it had absorbed during his battle with Atem.

On that note, I wish they'd release Diabound as a real card.

I liked Eltanin, except for Emergency Cyber. I hate cards that single-handedly create infinate combos (glares at Fucking Crow). BTW, I've renamed Crow in my mind. His last name is Crow, his first name is now "Fucking." So as far as I'm concerned, he's not Crow Hogan, he's Fucking Crow. And Fucking Crow fucking sucks.

LOL technically it's not an infinite combo. It will eventually lead to a resolution. That shit even happens in real life to poor Light and Darkness Dragon.

Treeborn Frog for example, special summons itself during the standby phase if you control no spells and traps on your field. L&D will negate Treeborn Frog, but Treeborn Frog will activate its effect again, and L&D will negate it. It'll just happen again, and again, and again, until L&D is weak and Treeborn can finally leap out the grave.

Same goes for Spirit Monsters that return to your hand during the End Phase and Lightsworns who mill cards from your deck on the end phase. Their mandatory effects will continuously activate until they get to be done. Because L&D doesn't negate AND destroy, it leaves itself open to effects that are mandatory or capable of being activated again.

LOL Crow, is all I can say. He just can do some really borked up shit.

Probably because it's set in the future...?

There's a point though that one's Suspension of Disbelief gets broken. It's the future, but certain shit basically appears that makes you wonder how the fuck this could ever conceivably tie into a card game at all.

Why would you play card game when you could just do the same in in DM and GX? I mean, hell, card games are serious business in the whole YGO universe.

Not really the same thing, because the driving force behind the card game in DM and GX, were its mystical, supernatural roots. The cards were never just cards. They were channels into the spirit world. They were a game, as much as a ceremony of darkness and the occult.

Now...people in law enforcement are investigating cards that have unexplained glitches that make them somehow capable of inflicting real damage and murdering people? Cards have now become tools...of murder? The police force made an army of robots who play card games to enforce the law?

No. That is not the same thing, and you know it.

Dude, most episodes of Yu-Gi-Oh are like that. I mean, why did Yugi not bother calling the cops on Pegasus when he kidnapped his grandfather's soul?

A.) Blackmail from Pegasus.

B.)...You really think the police would believe his Grandfather's soul was trapped inside a a mad man's playing card, or a digital recording device? At worst they'd think it was a prank and throw him in jail. At best, they'd think Sugoroku had a stroke and needs to be hospitalized cause he's in a vegetative state. Something that bizarre is not going to be believed by the police.

And ALL THOSE MAGICAL MILLENNIUM ITEMS, YET NO ONE USES THEM TO THEIR FULL EXTENT AND INSTEAD THEY PLAY CARD GAMES. Malik is a stupid bastard, why couldn't have have just taken all of Yugi's loved ones and killed them off slowly, to the point where the Pharaoh himself would have to obey every whim of Malik's orders and die a torturous, humiliating death?

Yami Bakura wielded the Millennium Ring very effectively, murdering Pegasus with the Ring and stealing his eye. Or if in the anime, just overpowering Pegasus and stealing it. No pretext of games at all.

Yami Malik was a sadistic, hateful, expy of all of Malik's suffering and despair. His hatred made him want to slowly torture and toy with all of the people he felt would make Yugi feel despair. And torturing others via a Game of Darkness is pretty damn serious. He doesn't want Yugi to follow his orders, he just wants him to suffer and die, which he felt he was more than capable of doing in a "Millennium Battle." And he tried numerous times to shank Rishid, but Isis kept moving him.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

LOL technically it's not an infinite combo. It will eventually lead to a resolution. That shit even happens in real life to poor Light and Darkness Dragon.

Treeborn Frog for example, special summons itself during the standby phase if you control no spells and traps on your field. L&D will negate Treeborn Frog, but Treeborn Frog will activate its effect again, and L&D will negate it. It'll just happen again, and again, and again, until L&D is weak and Treeborn can finally leap out the grave.

Same goes for Spirit Monsters that return to your hand during the End Phase and Lightsworns who mill cards from your deck on the end phase. Their mandatory effects will continuously activate until they get to be done. Because L&D doesn't negate AND destroy, it leaves itself open to effects that are mandatory or capable of being activated again.

LOL Crow, is all I can say. He just can do some really borked up shit.

Move a Cyber to your hand, discard it to retrieve EC, use it to move another Cyber, discard to retrieve, etc etc. Sure yeah, eventually you'd run out of Level 10 Cybers, but still thins the deck, fills up the Graveyard and can do a ton of combo crap with cards that get Spell Counters.

Infinite loops are actually meant to be banned in the TCG. Just look at this: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Pole_Position.

And Crow, yes, Fucking Crow. After they put Akiza in a coma to get him back in the spotlight, any lingering tolerance I have for him is gone.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Move a Cyber to your hand, discard it to retrieve EC, use it to move another Cyber, discard to retrieve, etc etc. Sure yeah, eventually you'd run out of Level 10 Cybers, but still thins the deck, fills up the Graveyard and can do a ton of combo crap with cards that get Spell Counters.

Nothing wrong with that. It's a good card for a good duelist

The whole duel basically reminded me of how Yugi was able to turn Osiris's effect against itself when he dueled Malik's Pantomimer Rare Hunter, and basically caused the dude to deck out thanks to the infinite draw combo.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

The whole duel basically reminded me of how Yugi was able to turn Osiris's effect against itself when he dueled Malik's Pantomimer Rare Hunter, and basically caused the dude to deck out thanks to the infinite draw combo.

True, but Marik needed five-six cards to create that combo, and Yugi gave a 7th to make the infinite loop.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Infinite loops are actually meant to be banned in the TCG. Just look at this: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Pole_Position.

And Crow, yes, Fucking Crow. After they put Akiza in a coma to get him back in the spotlight, any lingering tolerance I have for him is gone.

But What Kaiser Ryo and Yugi did, technically wasn't infinite. It just was a long, continuous loop that reached a conclusion once a resource was finally exhausted. An infinite loop has to be something will never gain any sort of conclusion at all. Like trying to equip Snatch Steal on a Cyber Phoenix. The cards would cause a loop of resolution that would never end, because Cyber Phoenix doesn't negate AND destroy...it just negates, leaving Snatch Steal to try and resolve itself again, and again, and again. The game would never be able to continue because the resolution and negation of an effect would continue on endlessly.

Someone trying to activate Wave Motion Cannon's effect while L&D Dragon is on the field, would be another example. The player could continuously try to activate the burn effect to remove the spell card's counters and inflict damage, until L&D Dragon was finally unable to use its effect to negate it. It's not infinite; it only lasts until L&D Dragon finally gives up and lets the card have its way.

 

[crack]

Not really the same thing, because the driving force behind the card game in DM and GX, were its mystical, supernatural roots. The cards were never just cards. They were channels into the spirit world. They were a game, as much as a ceremony of darkness and the occult.

Now...people in law enforcement are investigating cards that have unexplained glitches that make them somehow capable of inflicting real damage and murdering people? Cards have now become tools...of murder? The police force made an army of robots who play card games to enforce the law?

No. That is not the same thing, and you know it.

No, it's not the same thing. I was just mainly replying what your comment about them using laser guns instead of playing cards, because physical force could have been used throughout DM and GX as well. And hopefully they'll give us an explanation.

A.) Blackmail from Pegasus.

B.)...You really think the police would believe his Grandfather's soul was trapped inside a a mad man's playing card, or a digital recording device? At worst they'd think it was a prank and throw him in jail. At best, they'd think Sugoroku had a stroke and needs to be hospitalized cause he's in a vegetative state. Something that bizarre is not going to be believed by the police.

I probably didn't give you the best example, but I'd have to say there were times throughout the series where calling law enforcement might have been a lot more handy than a card game, or the bad guys featured through Yu-Gi-Oh! could have done a lot worse.

Yami Bakura wielded the Millennium Ring very effectively, murdering Pegasus with the Ring and stealing his eye. Or if in the anime, just overpowering Pegasus and stealing it. No pretext of games at all.

I won't deny that they the character effectively used the Items to their advantage in the manga.

Yami Malik was a sadistic, hateful, expy of all of Malik's suffering and despair. His hatred made him want to slowly torture and toy with all of the people he felt would make Yugi feel despair. And torturing others via a Game of Darkness is pretty damn serious. He doesn't want Yugi to follow his orders, he just wants him to suffer and die, which he felt he was more than capable of doing in a "Millennium Battle." And he tried numerous times to shank Rishid, but Isis kept moving him.

I was talking more about Malik here - especially when he forced Yugi and Jounouchi to duel to the death. Malik really didn't use the Rod to it's full effect, when he could have done much worse. And while I do think Yami Malik was a sick bastard, he could have done much worse as well - for example, when he threatens Ishizu, he doesn't do anything but spite her with his words and leaves. He already had the Millennium Rod to his advantage, but hardly used power of the Rod to gain his way.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No, it's not the same thing. I was just mainly replying what your comment about them using laser guns instead of playing cards, because physical force could have been used throughout DM and GX as well. And hopefully they'll give us an explanation.

Hopefully, but I doubt it.

They haven't yet, and if anything, added even more plot holes to the table. Like how Crow's Blackwinged Dragon is now suddenly the Fifth Dragon.

I probably didn't give you the best example, but I'd have to say there were times throughout the series where calling law enforcement might have been a lot more handy than a card game, or the bad guys featured through Yu-Gi-Oh! could have done a lot worse.

LOL, like what? Most of the times, the problems they had were either supernatural, or something that even if they told the police, it'd have done no good.

"Mr. Policeman, the crazy Egyptian Twink is mind controlling my best friend and making me duel to the death with him!"-Yugi

"Who are you calling a twink, you bastard?!"-Malik

Police Officer: @___@;;;;;;

I was talking more about Malik here - especially when he forced Yugi and Jounouchi to duel to the death. Malik really didn't use the Rod to it's full effect, when he could have done much worse. And while I do think Yami Malik was a sick bastard, he could have done much worse as well - for example, when he threatens Ishizu, he doesn't do anything but spite her with his words and leaves. He already had the Millennium Rod to his advantage, but hardly used power of the Rod to gain his way.

Malik is a weird one, who suffers from Evil Overlord Syndrome. And again, he's too caught up in his revenge. He doesn't just want to kill Yugi. He wants to satisfy his vengence of 3000 years, as he so aptly puts it.

And when he realizes Jou isn't going to follow orders right, he does tell Jou to just stand there and cease dueling, thereby having both of them just drown in the ocean and die. Malik is just a sadist. And being a sadist means not going for the quick kill. It means trying to figure out the longest, most drawn out and painful outcome possible for your enemy.

As for Yami Malik, I think the reason he chose not to do Ishizu in that time, was because of the reason I said before. He's a sadist, and he gets a thrill out of the game. He took Malik's desire for revenge to an extreme. When he draws his knife on Jou, and Yugi, he says that he could kill them now, but it wouldn't be any "fun." So clearly he wants to make it fun and painful.

 

[crack]

LOL, like what? Most of the times, the problems they had were either supernatural, or something that even if they told the police, it'd have done no good.

The first episode, the duel with Kaiba? I mean, what the hell would have Kaiba done to make Sugoroku so weak to the point where he had to go the hospital? When they find out Malik is actually the real Malik, they don't suspend him, they don't do anything. And not even card games - the villains could have done a lot better being 'evil,' but instead chose to use card games as the prime source of their villainy.

"Mr. Policeman, the crazy Egyptian Twink is mind controlling my best friend and making me duel to the death with him!"-Yugi

"Who are you calling a twink, you bastard?!"-Malik

Police Officer: @___@;;;;;;

He could have made Yugi suffer a lot more if Malik had decided on more crazy shit.

And when he realizes Jou isn't going to follow orders right, he does tell Jou to just stand there and cease dueling, thereby having both of them just drown in the ocean and die. Malik is just a sadist. And being a sadist means not going for the quick kill. It means trying to figure out the longest, most drawn out and painful outcome possible for your enemy.

I would have used the Rod's abilities to its fullest, torturing and humiliating all of Yugi's friends and controlling them like puppets as slowly as possible, thus causing Atemu to feel the guilt and emotional pain, and eventually having his mental exterior be so shattered he's forced to murder Yugi's body and himself by the most humiliating and painful way.

That's much more effective, and I wouldn't have to use card games to gain the most pleasurable revenge.

Also, I'm not sadistic.

As for Yami Malik, I think the reason he chose not to do Ishizu in that time, was because of the reason I said before. He's a sadist, and he gets a thrill out of the game. He took Malik's desire for revenge to an extreme. When he draws his knife on Jou, and Yugi, he says that he could kill them now, but it wouldn't be any "fun." So clearly he wants to make it fun and painful.

He could have used the Millennium Rod to make it 'fun' though, right?

 

[Kai Schulen]

How can 5D's bore you? It has... MOTORCYCLES.

It doesn't! I've mostly been getting by speed subs on youtube while waiting for TNKP to catch up (which is gonna take forever at this rate) but I haven't had the time to watch for the past few weeks or so. Catching up nao~

LOL you should probably get that ADD checked out.

I dunno about GX. GX has so much filler and nonsense that you seriously could never know existed, and still get the plot right. I mean, you'd need an episode guide. Janime has a good one, here. Just read through it and look through the episodes that actually have important shit going on. There's so much filler that it'd be too numerous to list. Especially in Season 1 and 2. Season 3 and 4 is a bit better. Particularly four since it's shorter and the end of the series.

As for 5Ds, you need to buck up and watch all of it. Every episode is basically important...well. Until Season 3 and the WRGP arc begins. Then it basically contracted the filler disease and just keeps giving us stupid fucking "duel of the week" bullshit. I'm looking at you Crashtown, and Pearson arcs.

The WRGP has finally started and cool shit's finally going down..kinda. I mean, if you like a robot army of riding duelists attacking everyone in a Battle Royal duel, then yeah. Shit just got real. The arc now is like a mix of "Terminator," "Ghost in the Shell," and YGO. It's....certainly...something.

It's not ADD! ...I'm just unwilling to sit through all the filler. I just wanna watch cause of Yubel but I hate suddenly jumping into a series and not know what the hell's going on. Even though that happens all the time in YGO Danke for the episode guide!

And I am catching up on 5D's! Kinda. I kinda caught up to episode 90 or so and then I fell behind. Again.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The first episode, the duel with Kaiba? I mean, what the hell would have Kaiba done to make Sugoroku so weak to the point where he had to go the hospital? When they find out Malik is actually the real Malik, they don't suspend him, they don't do anything. And not even card games - the villains could have done a lot better being 'evil,' but instead chose to use card games as the prime source of their villainy.

The first episode is only a problem because DM decided to try to squeeze in all of the backstory between Kaiba and Yugi's first duel in a single episode. In the original manga, Yugi and his friends were literally broadsided with the fact Sugoroku was there at Death-T dueling Kaiba, and then right then and there he suffered a heart attack. Then, when it was over, Kaiba gave him an ultimatum. Either participate in the Death-T amusement park, or watch as his Grandfather dies and is driven mad by his attractions. Also goons were there with guns.

That first episode just was a problem from the get go, due to the premise of rebooting the anime plot.

Most of the villains use card games, because card games are connected to the ancient lore and magic of Egypt. You have to do the ritual of the game of darkness in order to use its powers completely. Pegasus had to do it for the Big 5 to get Kaiba Corp, Yami Malik did it because he wanted to out of insanity and revenge, and Bakura did the Dark RPG because he needed to in order to resurrect Dark Necrophades. The whole card game played perfectly in the plot. It wasn't just a game, it was a means to the magic.

He could have made Yugi suffer a lot more if Malik had decided on more crazy shit.

How was Malik basically driving everyone insane, keeping everyone frightened for their life, making Ryou Bakura disappear, and nearly giving Jou a heart attack and burning him alive, not enough?

I mean, what more could he have done, save for just straight up murdering him? Yami Malik already wants to go through the ritual of darkness, so outside of that, he was basically pretty damn serious.

I would have used the Rod's abilities to its fullest, torturing and humiliating all of Yugi's friends and controlling them like puppets as slowly as possible, thus causing Atemu to feel the guilt and emotional pain, and eventually having his mental exterior be so shattered he's forced to murder Yugi's body and himself by the most humiliating and painful way.

That's what Malik did. Was him trying to make Yugi break by dueling to the death mind controlled evil Jou (his best friend), and seeing Anzu die if he backed down, not count? Hell, he even dragged Kaiba into it with his brother. Malik tried to do all that.

That's much more effective, and I wouldn't have to use card games to gain the most pleasurable revenge.

Also, I'm not sadistic.

You're not looking at it from the subjective perspective of Yami Malik/Malik wanting to do things in the most painful way possible, while also utilizing the whole method of the Penalty Game and Game of Darkness. Yeah, that all works, but Yami Malik even says that the more people he sends to the darkness, the stronger he feels and the more his power over the darkness grows. The more hateful he became, the stronger he got. The more people he punished with the Millennium Rod's power, the more its power grew.

 

[crack]

The first episode is only a problem because DM decided to try to squeeze in all of the backstory between Kaiba and Yugi's first duel in a single episode. In the original manga, Yugi and his friends were literally broadsided with the fact Sugoroku was there at Death-T dueling Kaiba, and then right then and there he suffered a heart attack. Then, when it was over, Kaiba gave him an ultimatum. Either participate in the Death-T amusement park, or watch as his Grandfather dies and is driven mad by his attractions. Also goons were there with guns.

That explains a lot, I don't recall him suffering from a heart attack in the manga.

Most of the villains use card games, because card games are connected to the ancient lore and magic of Egypt. You have to do the ritual of the game of darkness in order to use its powers completely. Pegasus had to do it for the Big 5 to get Kaiba Corp, Yami Malik did it because he wanted to out of insanity and revenge, and Bakura did the Dark RPG because he needed to in order to resurrect Dark Necrophades. The whole card game played perfectly in the plot. It wasn't just a game, it was a means to the magic.

If that's true, did Bakura kill Pegasus off by playing a card game or did he kill him off with the Ring? Because otherwise, you don't necessarily need the cards to obtain the power the Items grant you.

How was Malik basically driving everyone insane, keeping everyone frightened for their life, making Ryou Bakura disappear, and nearly giving Jou a heart attack and burning him alive, not enough?

I mean, what more could he have done, save for just straight up murdering him? Yami Malik already wants to go through the ritual of darkness, so outside of that, he was basically pretty damn serious.

I'm not saying he didn't do a lot of crazy shit. But it wasn't necessary for him to feature playing a card game in order to overthrow Yugi and the Pharaoh. He doesn't need the cards in order to gain the power.

That's what Malik did. Was him trying to make Yugi break by dueling to the death mind controlled evil Jou (his best friend), and seeing Anzu die if he backed down, not count? Hell, he even dragged Kaiba into it with his brother. Malik tried to do all that.

But why not just do that without the card game?

You're not looking at it from the subjective perspective of Yami Malik/Malik wanting to do things in the most painful way possible, while also utilizing the whole method of the Penalty Game and Game of Darkness. Yeah, that all works, but Yami Malik even says that the more people he sends to the darkness, the stronger he feels and the more his power over the darkness grows. The more hateful he became, the stronger he got. The more people he punished with the Millennium Rod's power, the more its power grew.

Oh, yeahhhhh. I forgot about that; but I think that only applies to Yami Malik's case.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

If that's true, did Bakura kill Pegasus off by playing a card game or did he kill him off with the Ring? Because otherwise, you don't necessarily need the cards to obtain the power the Items grant you.

IIRC, the "ancient egyptian laser beams" is their way of dueling in their minds using their items.

But why not just do that without the card game?

....no! The card game is integral to the plot, the evil plot, of which Marik is the evil mastermind!

 

[ForceStealer]

I originally thought that the way Millenium Items worked completely revolved around victory in some sort of contest before being able to do something (like Yugi and that guy trying to assault Anzu. He makes him draw one card, wins, and then Mind Crushes him). It IS how Millenium Items are passed on. They can only be given willingly or won. But as for using their power...it seems to come in very random times besides that.

Another interesting thing, The Millennium Puzzle blocked Panik's fire, but Yugi seemed very concerned about the blades against Arkana. Would Yugi have not been able to stop the fire had he lost and was only protected because Panik was cheating?

 

[crack]

....no! The card game is integral to the plot, the evil plot, of which Melvin is the evil mastermind!

Fixed that for you.

Another interesting thing, The Millennium Puzzle blocked Panik's fire, but Yugi seemed very concerned about the blades against Arkana. Would Yugi have not been able to stop the fire had he lost and was only protected because Panik was cheating?

I don't think Yugi would have been able to block the fire if he had lost - being the victor, he was allowed to shield himself from the attack and Mind Crush Panik, but only after he won. The blades were shown throughout the battle, which I think explains why he was more concerned about the blades when he saw them, knowing that he was in a much more threatening position than just playing a card game against someone.

And speaking of Atem's power, I don't think he can randomly Mind Crush people, even if they were doing something bad. I think he'd have to win something in order to gain that power, but... I may be wrong.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That explains a lot, I don't recall him suffering from a heart attack in the manga.

He eventually suffered one, in route to the hospital or something. But the sheer shock and terror he endured in one of Kaiba's duel boxes just drove him over the edge.

If that's true, did Bakura kill Pegasus off by playing a card game or did he kill him off with the Ring? Because otherwise, you don't necessarily need the cards to obtain the power the Items grant you.

In the manga, Bakura just straight up used his Ring somehow to kill Pegasus and tear out his eye. In the anime, their dark powers clashed and Pegasus, too weak from his Game of Darkness with Yugi, couldn't defend himself, was paralyzed, and just...had the eye gouged out.

See, when two wielders of Millennium Items, of equal strength, confront each other, then they have to go through a Game of Darkness to settle the score. But if the difference in power is obvious, then the pretext of the game is no longer necessary. They balance each other out, unless the wielder is just a weakling.

I'm not saying he didn't do a lot of crazy shit. But it wasn't necessary for him to feature playing a card game in order to overthrow Yugi and the Pharaoh. He doesn't need the cards in order to gain the power.

Malik wasn't trying to gain any power from Yugi or Atem. Malik just wanted to straight up murder them, in the most painful, sadistic, and hateful way possible. And he only used the Millennium Rod to set up various "games" of death to make them suffer. There was no trying to get power. Just killing and torture.

But why not just do that without the card game?

Because he wanted to, and felt that would be best. He even said, through the Pantomimer rare hunter, that if Yugi refused his duel, he'd just have the Rare Hunter chase him, and then brutally murder him. Malik was clearly obsessed with not only killing Yugi, but also proving his superiority to him.

Oh, yeahhhhh. I forgot about that; but I think that only applies to Yami Malik's case.

Yeah, that's only for Yami Malik. In Malik's case, it came from his desire to not only humiliate and make Yugi suffer, but to prove his superiority to him via revenge.

I originally thought that the way Millenium Items worked completely revolved around victory in some sort of contest before being able to do something (like Yugi and that guy trying to assault Anzu. He makes him draw one card, wins, and then Mind Crushes him). It IS how Millenium Items are passed on. They can only be given willingly or won. But as for using their power...it seems to come in very random times besides that.

You're kinda right. In order to have a Game of Darkness...there has to be a game of some kind. But you don't necessarily need a game to use their power. Malik can brainwash people with the rod, regardless of any games. Pegasus can read your mind, regardless of any game. But in order to fully use its power and inflict a full Penalty Game, you have to do the ritiual.

Also, there wasn't any "winning" of Millennium Items. That was a dub concept thrown in, to hide the fact that Malik was just out for blood. You can be given a Millennium Items can just be taken and stolen, as long as you have the spiritual and magical power to use it. Thief King Bakura stole the items whenever he could and just used them. Game or no game.

Another interesting thing, The Millennium Puzzle blocked Panik's fire, but Yugi seemed very concerned about the blades against Arkana. Would Yugi have not been able to stop the fire had he lost and was only protected because Panik was cheating?

That was anime-only. In the manga, Panik instead, was dueling Yugi in a Duel Box, and had piano wire wrapped around his throat, and threatened to choke him to death and decapitate him if he lost. Yugi was fine with that, because the game he was playing against him was a Game of Darkness. When Panik lost, Yugi just inflicted a Penalty Game, making the guy think he was about to be hung on the gallows and then..well...he got hung.

I don't think Yugi's puzzle would've been able to stop buzz saws from tearing him to pieces. I don't think it works like that. As for how it stopped the fire, eh....I'm not sure. But he certainly can't really do telekinesis with his item.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Fixed that for you.

No, Marik is the evil mastermind, Melvin is his imaginary friend who likes to hug people. Silly whore biscuit!

 

[Makoeyes987]

And speaking of Atem's power, I don't think he can randomly Mind Crush people, even if they were doing something bad. I think he'd have to win something in order to gain that power, but... I may be wrong.

In the manga, when one of the evil teachers at his school was about to try to make Honda confess in giving a love letter to Miho, and threatened everyone in the class with expulsion if the person who wrote it didn't come forward, Yugi/Atem used the puzzle to inflict a penalty game on her, to make her think her face was falling off, and revealed how ugly she truly was inside.

 

[ForceStealer]

I don't think Yugi's puzzle would've been able to stop buzz saws from tearing him to pieces. I don't think it works like that. As for how it stopped the fire, eh....I'm not sure. But he certainly can't really do telekinesis with his item.

Well, I think it stands to reason that the Puzzle would have protected him if he had won and then Arkana/Malik decided to cheat and fling the blade at him anyway, as with Panik and the fire.
I was just musing if Yugi had somehow lost to Panik, then I suppose the Puzzle would not have been able to stop the fire...

It's interesting how each Millennium Item has a separate ability, but they all are capable of inflicting any kind of penalty game. THIS is what I loved about Yu-gi-oh! as a kid. I never gave a shit about the card game, I loved the concept of the Millennium Items. (I can to enjoy the card game in its own right, but its not why I watched the show)

 

[Lord Noctis]

You know, reading some of these comment it occurs to me how little I actually know about the original show, seeing as I've only seen the 4kids dub. Sad, I know.

 

[ForceStealer]

Even though I saw the Japanese more recently, I grew up on the dub, so I remember more of that too. Don't feel too bad

 

[Strangelove]

I got all my info about movie from Mako in this thread.

Your problem started there

A digital penguin dueling Anzu makes more sense than a giant cyborg shrimp living in a computer that's somehow orchestrating or behind the current events of robot people trying to create a circuit out of highways.

I want to see these things now.

 

[crack]

Alright, Mako, you win. You obviously know the manga and the show much better than I do,

No, Marik is the evil mastermind, Melvin is his imaginary friend who likes to hug people. Silly whore biscuit!

Well, at least you're not Florence.

I want to see these things now.

WATCH THE SHOW HITO.