Definitive and Absolute Power Tier List.

[Ryushikaze]

Saw your last post after making mine. Have since edited post for ultra lazy calculation of energy.
Will look for better information on required values of TNT to achieve the result achieved in the square and recalculate from that.

 

[Deus]

To clarify; there is just some shit you're never going to know. Ever.

This isn't a philosophical argument about if god exists or if we have a soul.
It's a discussion of a fictional universe. Are there things we'll never know about the fictional universe? Yes. But that's why you don't argue them...because you don't know.

If you don't know something and can't prove it then it has no worth in a debate of hard facts.

So are you just going to just pretend that stuff doesn't exist until you know?

I believe in God so no, I don't need absolute proof for everything.
When it comes to making a direct claim about something however, I do want proof. I think God exists but I won't say "well I think God exists therefore He does."

It's my belief and has no place in a debate. Neither does other unsubstantiated speculation.

You fill in the holes based on what you DO know. Not allowing yourself to speculate is just inflexibility that doesn't do you any favors and actually IMPEDES your intellectual growth.

I already said you're fully entitled to speculate. It's just speculation has no place in arguments such as these.

And I'll take the pics and conclusions Mako and Ryu have made to people who can do maths better than I can.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

This isn't a philosophical argument about if god exists or if we have a soul.
It's a discussion of a fictional universe. Are there things we'll never know about the
fictional universe? Yes. But that's why you don't argue them...because you don't know.

So according to you if you don't have hard facts than it's not worth wondering at all?

If you don't know something and can't prove it then it has no worth in a debate of hard facts.

But this isn't a debate of hard facts, you're just trying to strongarm it into one. Around here, when we debate and we don't know the answers for sure, we speculate based within reason. There are some things we aren't going to know for sure, at least not right now. Until then, we speculate and theorize.

I believe in God so no, I don't need absolute proof for everything.
When it comes to making a direct claim about something however, I do want proof. I think God exists but I won't say "well I think God exists therefore He does."

It's my belief and has no place in a debate. Neither does other unsubstantiated speculation.

There's nothing wrong with wanting proof, nothing at all. But if you're not going to get it, you speculate. In fact, in most cases this is how you get your proof. Do you think early scientists just went "WELL WE DON'T HAVE ANY HARD FACTS ON WHY PEOPLE GET SICK SO WHY BOTHER" No. They speculated, and speculated, and speculated, and every bit of speculation was reasonable enough to where they could eventually build up and discover some hard core facts.

I already said you're fully entitled to speculate. It's just speculation has no place in arguments such as these.

Says who? You?

 

[Dashell]

It's a discussion of a fictional universe. Are there things we'll never know about the fictional universe? Yes. But that's why you don't argue them...because you don't know.

I guess Temor Flare was actually just full of candy. And when it would hit Edge, it would rain candy upon all the residents. See what I did there?

You can make an educated guess based on things, I mean why are you so against that?
(sorry I've been watching, I'll stay out from now on but this is bugging me)

 

[Cat Rage Room]

(sorry I've been watching, I'll stay out from now

You absolutely do not have to apologize for taking part in a conversation. Join in, you're more than welcome.

 

[Dashell]

Yeah I dunno why I said that XD
It's just so much more fun to watch you guys

But I want to know why you shouldn't speculate based on the information given in a debate like this. Why do you need stuff spoon fed to you? Why is common sense not allowed?

 

[Deus]

Um, you do realize common sense is entirely subjective?
If we defies common sense as something we can all easily tell as true then no, it's not common sense. Why? Because I and several other people in the past have debated Bahamut wasn't a citbysuter.

Therefore if it was common sense, we all would have no room to ssay no and you wouldn't have to use calcs to prove it can.

Mako, can you get a screenshot of the actual size of the first attack and the damage it caused? Seems like the best you'll have is scaling up from that; determining the size of the blast, how much damage it caused and then how many times larger the ultimate attack is.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Um, you do realize common sense is entirely subjective?
If we defies common sense as something we can all easily tell as true then no, it's not common sense. Why? Because I and several other people in the past have debated Bahamut wasn't a citbysuter.

Therefore if it was common sense, we all would have no room to ssay no and you wouldn't have to use calcs to prove it can.

Every inhabitant of FF7 is made of cheese.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Sephiroth has two penises.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The Buster Sword is made from Styrofoam.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Red XIII is really a member of a species of sentient lampshades native to Gaia.

 

[Dashell]

Cloud loves AerithSephiroth

(OH I so went there)

Sephiroth has two penises.

BTW did you know all male snakes have two penises?

 

[Deus]

How delightfully immature.

 

[Ryushikaze]

How have we gone from 'Here are some -admittedly fast and loose- numbers to, well, this?

Cut it out, both sides.

And where are you taking it, out of curiosity?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

How delightfully immature.

Hey, I need some hard facts before you even begin to try to argue any of these points.

 

[Dashell]

How have we gone from 'Here are some -admittedly fast and loose- numbers to, well, this?

Mog was trying to prove that common sense isn't as subjective as Dues was saying, I believe.

I mean really, common sense should really be applied to things like this. I mean if we can't use speculation and logic, what do we have left?

 

[Deus]

And where are you taking it, out of curiosity?

A forum full of science nerds. The people I mentioned earlier who debae ST vs. SW only using calcs and actual facts.
Though ST is pretty much pwned by SW in every debate, sadly.

They're just a lot better at math than I am.

I mean really, common sense should really be applied to things like this. I mean if we can't use speculation and logic, what do we have left?

It's not common sense, though. It's a conclusion based on flimsy fallible interpretations.

It's also directly opposed to common sense if we say it can citybust since Cloud has never literally tanked anything of that magnitude.
In fact the number of beings and things in FFVII who can blow up a city can probably be counted on a single hand.

 

[Dashell]

It's also directly opposed to common sense if we say it can citybust since Cloud has never literally tanked anything of that magnitude.

... uh supernova? IT destroyed planets... didn't this come up?.. or did I misunderstand? What do you mean by tanked?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

... uh supernova? IT destroyed planets... didn't this come up?.. or did I misunderstand? What do you mean by tanked?

To be fair, the imagery displayed during Supernova's animation is an illusion (biggest hint: none of the planets in the animation exist in FF7).

I'm not sure whether its power is largely physical or spiritual though, you'd have to ask Mako or Ryu.

 

[Deus]

I wonder if he really did (and actually could) use Super Nova if it would destroy Spira?
OH SNAP.

Though I kid. I can't remember if the nonsensical connection they made up said they existed in the same solar system.

 

[Ryushikaze]

A forum full of science nerds. The people I mentioned earlier who debae ST vs. SW only using calcs and actual facts.
Though ST is pretty much pwned by SW in every debate, sadly.

They're just a lot better at math than I am.

SD.Net?
Spacebattles?

It's not common sense, though. It's a conclusion based on flimsy fallible interpretations.

Actually, considering Bahamut was rising so far above, when previously he had not cared about splashback from his shots, that this blast is ludicrously stronger, to the point where he was ascending to fire from safety kinda tells us the level of destruction we might see.

It's also directly opposed to common sense if we say it can citybust since Cloud has never literally tanked anything of that magnitude.

Actually, it's not, given Cloud's previously demonstrated nigh indestructability.

In fact the number of beings and things in FFVII who can blow up a city can probably be counted on a single hand.

The Mako Cannon, any WEAPON, that's seven already.

The 10-7 connection involves a space colonization and lost technology. They may or may not be the same solar system.

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

Sephiroth has two penises.

I knew the Masamune was too long to be a sword!

 

[Deus]

SD.Net?
Spacebattles?

Actually it's an anime forum with a lot of SB and SD.net regulars on it. Naruto Forums.

And I'm not posting ti until I can get the screens of its first attack and the destruction it caused. I'll tryand get them myself if Mako is gonna be gone for a while.

Actually, considering Bahamut was rising so far above, when previously he had not cared about splashback from his shots, that this blast is ludicrously stronger, to the point where he was ascending to fire from safety kinda tells us the level of destruction we might see.

And all of that proves citybusting how?

Actually, it's not, given Cloud's previously demonstrated nigh indestructability.

Cloud has never tanked a skyscraper bust, let alone a citybuster.

The Mako Cannon, any WEAPON, that's seven already.

Now you're just disregarding what we plainly see.

A Charged close-range attack from a WEAPON didn't come within a mile of citybusting.

Diamond's attack did about the same though admittedly it wasn't charging and it wasn't as close.

Saying any WEAPON can citybust is just ignoring the evidence.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Actually it's an anime forum with a lot of SB and SD.net regulars on it. Naruto Forums.

Which SD.net regulars?

And I'm not posting ti until I can get the screens of its first attack and the destruction it caused. I'll tryand get them myself if Mako is gonna be gone for a while.

Fair enough.

And all of that proves citybusting how?

It proves Bahamut Tremor wanted to be outside a certain blast radius.

Cloud has never tanked a skyscraper bust, let alone a citybuster.

He has however fallen from a height of over 50 meters and landed without injury on several occasions.

Now you're just disregarding what we plainly see.

A Charged close-range attack from a WEAPON didn't come within a mile of citybusting.

Diamond's attack did about the same though admittedly it wasn't charging and it wasn't as close.

Saying any WEAPON can citybust is just ignoring the evidence.

Not in one hit, but I didn't say in a single hit. If you can get it done, you can get it done. Sapphire was a threat to Junon. Not one that was instant vaporization, but not even atomic bombs atomize a city.

Hell, not even any all planetbusts are the same.

 

[Deus]

Which SD.net regulars?

I'm not sure how much they post on there but they always reference it. I only know their usernames on NF anyway.
On NF they go by Endless Mike, Crimson Dragoon and Pipboy. A guy called TWF/The White Fang sucks Wong off so much I assume he posts there but I don't like the guy so I'm not counting him.

Though Pipboy doesn't post anymore sadly. Not on NF anyway.

I'm not a big fan of SDN myself. I like more of what I've seen of SB and I know they belong there too.

It proves Bahamut Tremor wanted to be outside a certain blast radius.

Fair enough.

He has however fallen from a height of over 50 meters and landed without injury on several occasions.

Fair enough. Though falling from a large distance doesn't mean you can tank energy blasts capable of reducing cities to craters.

Though if it does, then Geese Howard is even more awesome than I thought.

Not in one hit, but I didn't say in a single hit. If you can get it done, you can get it done. Sapphire was a threat to Junon. Not one that was instant vaporization, but not even atomic bombs atomize a city.

Well I was thinking more in one hit but I guess over time they could do it.

The things I would say are capable of taking out cities in one hit in FFVII are AC/C Sephiroth, Omega and Chaos, the Mako Cannon and Meteor and Holy. So six. And they're all a bit above Bahamut Sin which is one reason I'm having such a hard time buying his citybuster.

Hell, not even any all planetbusts are the same.

That's true but even the easiest way to 'splode a planet, attacking its core, would probably require a fair bit of power. Though I'm honestly not sure on that.