SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 16 Spoiler Discussion

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
That's why I love taking the elevator because it's so fucking awkward and hilarious. :monster:

Especially when the poor fucking accountant lady is in front of the elevator door and Cloud just holds the sword at her face.

And then the guy on the cell phone somehow misses the 3 fucking intruders because he's just too busy talking.

LOL its hilariously bizarre, but I can accept the explanation Mayor Domino basically fudged around to ensure security footage got deleted and made sure to carefully divert anyone around away from them.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I think the existence of the neighborhood watches (where we see many members of said watches carrying around machine guns fragrantly in the open) in the various slums helps justify (though I will admit it doesn’t completely do so) Barret and Cloud’s lack of acknowledged conspicuousness, as it establishes that it’s not uncommon for some slum citizens to be packing packing serious heat.

But the suspension of disbelief is always going to be stretched more the less cartoony/abstract a piece of audio-visual media gets, that’s just a basic fact of speculative-fiction media.
 
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X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I never got the softlock in the air ducts (where you become unable to exit the optional employee scenes that you listen in on) but I did get this weird fashion statement. Or maybe it's just a counter-intuitive air draft going on. :monster:


Bahahaha, oh man. I bet there're plenty of other weird bugs in this Chapter that I didn't uncover, but I'm glad that the softlock isn't the only oddity there.



X :neo:
 
*copy-pasted from X-SOLDIER's thread for extra coverage*

English voice clips from the slums re-used in Chapter 16. I'm convinced there are a few more cases but I was unable to find recordings to confirm this. I have no idea to what degree, if any, that the Japanese game re-uses voice clips.


While NPC dialogue doesn't appear to be randomly assigned most of the time, I noticed that when I revisited the group watching TV in Chapter 8 that there were slight differences in what voice clips were available there. Or maybe it was just the faulty NPC detection mechanics glitching out on me.

It's worthwhile to note that inbetween slum-based chapters I never observed a single repeated voice clip. Some NPC text can be similar from time to time, but the voice used is always different. Repetition of voice clips only happened in Chapter 16.

If I'm not mistaken, there were also way more cases in Ch16 of an NPC only having one line of spoken dialogue instead of two. It is most common across the game for NPCs to have two different lines of dialogue that can be triggered.

EDIT: Managed to miss this one in video editing. Shinra employee says "Bet hundreds of people're still trapped under the rubble". Same text and voice clip as the guy at 0:34 in my video.
 
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I was hoping to bump into the Shinra Middle Manager pulling an all-nighter in the Shinra building, but I never did. It seems like kind of an obvious thing to do with him. That said, I suppose it would have strained belief too far, given that Barret is already strolling about like he owns the place, knocking over tables and bumping into people, and nobody recognises him as the Avalanche terrorist with the gun-arm.
 

Keveh Kins

Pun Enthusiast
Finished up this chapter and jotted down some thoughts.

- I very much enjoyed the memorial museum segments. What a ridiculously ostentatious display of self gratification. And of course President Shinra's exhibit is the first and the biggest.

- I also loved the whole propaganda video about the Ancients and Shinra spinning everything to sound like they're going to recreate that paradise. All of it felt very Disney, making the happiest place on earth. Ditto for the Neo-Midgar concept art, which looked like a Mass Effect style Utopia. Great contrast to the reality of current Midgar. Dark, industrial, falling into disrepair and utterly chaotic. I laughed very hard at the notion a meteor killed the Ancients. Like, I suppose technically it did, but just knowing Shinra is sitting on what really killed them made it very funny to me, in a twisted way.

- I felt Domino was a great reinterpretation of the character. Him being the inside man makes perfect sense and again it hits that sweet spot of not changing the essence of his original character but greatly expanding on it.

- I loved Hojo's dig at Aerith about basically harvesting her mother's corpse and the fetishistic way he spoke about her being perfect right down the cellular level.

- Red's voice is great. I think it fits nicely between being mature and bestial and also sounding young enough to convey that he's actually pretty inexperienced relative to his lifespan.

- I liked Cloud bumping into old colleagues.

- I still find the Whispers things a totally superfluous addition. The original handled things like Hojo not revealing Cloud's real identity much better. OG Hojo legitimately forgot about him because why would he bother remembering a failed experiment. It starts dawning on him by Costa Del Sol that Cloud has Jenova cells and is going to be part of the reunion. Then Hojo is disgusted that his theory is proven correct by someone he didn't even deem worthy of giving a tattoo. He doesn't reveal Cloud's true nature prematurely because he wants to see the reunion play out. It made no sense to me that he nearly revealed Cloud's nature here. Or that he even recognised him. A bum note in the writing for me.

- I liked that Palmer is such an unaccredited individual that everyone just ignores him claiming he saw Sephiroth. I also like the notion that Sephiroth is stalking the halls of this vast building, a nice bit of foreboding.

-Scarlet was Scarlet, I think they've depicted her very true to the OG. She's a great secondary character and I think she works best appearing in brief bursts throughout the entire story. Didn't care for her theme song though.

On the whole I really liked this chapter and there was enough nostalgia to keep me buzzing the whole way through.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
The original handled things like Hojo not revealing Cloud's real identity much better. OG Hojo legitimately forgot about him because why would he bother remembering a failed experiment. It starts dawning on him by Costa Del Sol that Cloud has Jenova cells and is going to be part of the reunion. Then Hojo is disgusted that his theory is proven correct by someone he didn't even deem worthy of giving a tattoo. He doesn't reveal Cloud's true nature prematurely because he wants to see the reunion play out. It made no sense to me that he nearly revealed Cloud's nature here. Or that he even recognised him. A bum note in the writing for me.

It makes more sense than not that Hojo would recognize him. Cloud was the (ordinary) teenager who fought Sephiroth and lived. Once the Compilation introduced the idea that the Turks were on the scene in Nibelheim and knew about this, it only made sense Hojo was shown taking special notice of him.

If he remembers the details of the acts to a play he researched and considers "pure drivel," surely he would remember this guy?

Even in the original game, which hadn't yet introduced the idea that Hojo knew Cloud fought and possibly killed his son, it seems that Hojo recognized him. As you said, at Costa del Sol he makes hints at the Reunion and Cloud's involvement in it -- so while the original game never told us that Hojo recognized Cloud during the raid on the Shin-Ra headquarters, he apparently did.
 

Keveh Kins

Pun Enthusiast
It makes more sense than not that Hojo would recognize him. Cloud was the (ordinary) teenager who fought Sephiroth and lived. Once the Compilation introduced the idea that the Turks were on the scene in Nibelheim and knew about this, it only made sense Hojo was shown taking special notice of him.

If he remembers the details of the acts to a play he researched and considers "pure drivel," surely he would remember this guy?

Even in the original game, which hadn't yet introduced the idea that Hojo knew Cloud fought and possibly killed his son, it seems that Hojo recognized him. As you said, at Costa del Sol he makes hints at the Reunion and Cloud's involvement in it -- so while the original game never told us that Hojo recognized Cloud during the raid on the Shin-Ra headquarters, he apparently did.

That's a fair point, and taking that into account, I can see why it's not a break from reason that Hojo recognises Cloud, but why would he want to reveal to Cloud he's not a Soldier?

Purely to fuck with him? It's a Hojo thing to do, to be fair.

I suppose at that point, Cloud is of little consequence to Hojo so he wouldn't think much of telling Cloud he's actually a Sephiroth copy.

I dunno, I can see the reasoning as to why he would reveal it to Cloud then and there. But at the same time I still feel there would be nothing lost if he had said nothing, apart from another Whispers intervention.

Mayhaps I'm just muddling up plot points and head canon. Wouldn't be the first time I've done it :monster:
 
I get the impression as though they used two different models for Red XIII. One for his introductory scene, where the streaks of red paint on his cheek makes a huge topological difference with the rest of the fur (it even looks like his skin is exposed rather than paint having been added). Then another one for the rest of game, where the fur doesn't look at all pushed down by the red paint.

Pretty sure the intention isn't for his skin to look exposed in that first shot, but each time I look that's the impression I get.
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Our stealth mission immediately goes south on the front gate, and we kill our way through the parking garage. Somehow, this doesn't raise the alarm.

Inexplicably, there is no one posted in the main entrance to the Shinra building at night. Then we do some parkour given convenient light fittings and cushions, and then security shuts itself down. And apparently the captive science experiments are just casually logged at the main reception for some reason. ' Excuse me, Ms Guard Hound, can you just put a pawprint here, thanks. We hope you enjoy your stay.'

Dammit, someone's helping us again. Can't let these leads have their own accomplishments, can we?

I climb the stairs because I remember it being more fun (I walk up, for extra effect). No elixir lying around this time, sadly, but they keep the core of the conversation. The floors all being numbered takes away from the effect somewhat. So we arrive at floor fifty nine and get cued into the tour guide...of the secure floors of the Shinra building? Okay.

I'm almost hoping that President Shinra is behind this, deliberately making AVALANCHE go through the exhibition about how great he is just to troll them. It's all made up for by the idea that somebody managed to rope Hojo into doing a tour guide segment in the exhibition. Whoever pulled that off deserves a bravery award.

Apparently Sephiroth has hacked the exhibition just to be a troll. Gotta pass the time somehow, I guess.

Aaaand Mayor Domino is behind it. He's an AVALANCHE plant. Sigh. Hart tries to gouge us for cash, but I don't bite despite having finally managed to make some money mercing in the previous few chapters. When did I scare an accountant, I don't remember that.

Our contact is helpfully displayed by the objective marker, which I imagine annoys people that paid out. He wants us to play video games to prove who we are. Done.

I briefly get distracted by video games like every good terrorist in the middle of a rescue mission. Why do Shinra sims always pit you against Shinra machines? 'Time to simulate the invasion of Wutai, in which you will be attacked by a bunch of your own backup gone rogue. In our experience, that happens a lot.'

I die in the last round, running out of MP again, and don't care enough to try again.

Chadley is just loitering in the recreation room, hacking into the system to check our progress. So far I've everything done except 200pc stagger and master all types of materia, so he's nothing to me.

We get to the conference room, and listen in on the vents. Very nice touch that we get a few other conversations en route.

We follow Hojo, mildly annoying him by threatening to put a few bullets through his skull, and he unleashes H2SO4 on us. It looks cool and I defeat the minions just to see if they ressurect like the others. They do. Okay. He's not too hard, and then we head to the main floor, where Hojo has uncharacteristically predicted that we will go down to a few soldiers, which seems odd after defeating a much more dangerous creature. It doesn't work, and then Hojo is kidnapped by ghosts, which confuses him a bit. We rescue Aeris, and then Cloud faints as we encounter Jenova.

Red XIII goes for Hojo's throat, and the ghosts are annoyed when Barret tries to stay behind.

We're off script again. I wasn't expecting this chapter to get so far, to be honest, so where do we go from here?
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I just noticed that too on my Hard Mode
Replay, maybe it’s meant to indicate that the elevator is the default route?

Nah. I honestly think that it's just one of the little things that got missed, because normally that'd've been accounted for in polish & testing – but Chapter 16 is where those little things start to slip through the cracks a bit. Those two paths should be as seamless as the Chapter 14 night time scenes.



X:neo:
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
I was looking around earlier, and as far as I can tell the iconic green pickup that the party escapes in is nowhere to be found in the lobby, it just shows up in time for the cutscene. Did I miss it?
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I was looking around earlier, and as far as I can tell the iconic green pickup that the party escapes in is nowhere to be found in the lobby, it just shows up in time for the cutscene. Did I miss it?
I believe it's on the second floor of the lobby to the right, you can go to that room/area for an item after you get the first keycard, but it's missable if you immediately go to stairs or elevators.
 
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Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
I believe it's on the second floor of the lobby to the left, you can go to that room/area for an item after you get the first keycard, but it's missable if you immediately go to stairs or elevators.
You mean the little side room with more cars in it? I didn't see it in there either but maybe I missed it.
 
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