FFVII REMAKE CONFIRMED

[ForceStealer]

That's what I figured the "my turn" was referencing

 

[Jairus]

True enough, Teioh, though it was different with Sephiroth in that when the game first came out, it wasn't known beforehand what would happen to Aerith. With Jessie, though, we do, just not how. And it would be having Reno (or maybe Tseng) with all the years of fandom behind them do something that they hadn't before. I'm just not sure what effect it would have, is all. But having one of them do it and kill your teammate and friend would certainly emphasize their supposed lethality much more directly than just the plate drop alone, I think.

 

[Sephira]

True enough, Teioh, though it was different with Sephiroth in that when the game first came out, it wasn't known beforehand what would happen to Aerith. With Jessie, though, we do, just not how. And it would be having Reno (or maybe Tseng) with all the years of fandom behind them do something that they hadn't before. I'm just not sure what effect it would have, is all. But having one of them do it and kill your teammate and friend would certainly emphasize their supposed lethality much more directly than just the plate drop alone, I think.

If it's indeed Reno who ends up killing her, there will be people who will despise him and people who will keep liking/loving him. This fandom is super huge and everyone has different tastes -I love, adore Sephiroth and there's people who doesn't like him at all- and that's completely okay. As for me, I wouldn't stop liking Reno if he does that, but then again, I doubt they will have him doing something like that. A whole fandom won't stop liking a character just because he or she ends up killing another one, that pretty much depends on people's bias.

 

[ForceStealer]

I generally feel people that like villains are "loving to hate" them. And that can by itself still be far more iconic/marketable then bit parts on the 'good guy' side. (Vader was much more popular than the OG Biggs and Wedge, for example.)

Though I know it's a little more complex with the Turks as fanfic writers want to make them tortured souls :fainting couch:

 

[Jairus]

You think being in at least half the game, if not a bit more, is still just a bit part, Force? I guess that makes Aerith a bit character then...

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm talking about the original you goofball, the only one anyone has played. The one (and compilation) which has determined these characters' marketability for cheap throwaway merch like a button at an event.

 

[Sephira]

I generally feel people that like villains are "loving to hate" them. And that can by itself still be far more iconic/marketable then bit parts on the 'good guy' side. (Vader was much more popular than the OG Biggs and Wedge, for example.)

Though I know it's a little more complex with the Turks as fanfic writers want to make them tortured souls :fainting couch:

Thing is villains tend to be interesting and charismatic (it's not as if the good guys aren't) but they have that je ne sais quoi that makes them super attractive, and not just physically speaking.

And The Turks are definitely not tortured souls *Laughs* but no, I don't really picture Nomura and Kitase having Reno killing her like that, especially after his comical moments during Advent Children.

 

[Jairus]

I see, but shouldn't it be kept in mind what they will be, not just what they were, and thus market accordingly?

And Sephira, I do admit it's a little farfetched about him killing her, I just thought that if they wanted to make the Turks darker and less comic, emphasizing their willingness to murder, that would be one way to do it.

 

[Ite]

He fights 3 heavily-armed people, including the SOLDIER, multiple times in the OG, though.

Actually there’s only one non-optional fight, when you’ve got him backed into a corner — the fight ends when he takes his chances on a 25-meter drop, and he’s out of commission, potentially until the final confrontation on Disc 2. Rude says that he’s itching for a rematch, but what does that look like? You can confront him in Gongaga (it’s a targeted ambush, he has backup and the element of surprise, and still flees) the Gelnika (has backup, the element of surprise, and you have him cornered) and the final confrontation, where you can let him walk away or make him run.

That’s not really a “Now it’s my turn!” kind of character. Assuredly, Cloud cuts down those guys and then Reno goes in for a Loz attack, instead of thinking “hey this unexpected obstacle just cut down all my men, maybe I should recalculate my odds. They were... Mako eyes...” The new church fight is expansion at the expense of characterization, like everything else I’ve seen.

 

[Sephira]

I see, but shouldn't it be kept in mind what they will be, not just what they were, and thus market accordingly?

And Sephira, I do admit it's a little farfetched about him killing her, I just thought that if they wanted to make the Turks darker and less comic, emphasizing their willingness to murder, that would be one way to do it.

I'm sure they would find a way to make them less comic, more aggressive, perhaps... but that would be too much, I think. We all know this is a reimagination more than a remake per se, but I don't think they would completely strip away the funny essence of The Turks.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

@Mr. Ite
Wow, I don't know if I've ever found so much fault in an assessment from you. XD
---

Anywho, if we see the Avalanche crew die before the plate drops, in an odd way, isn't that going to make Reno seem less culpable than he did in the original game? At least for them. Unless he kills them personally, of course, but I'm not expecting that.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

Actually there’s only one non-optional fight, when you’ve got him backed into a corner — the fight ends when he takes his chances on a 25-meter drop, and he’s out of commission, potentially until the final confrontation on Disc 2. Rude says that he’s itching for a rematch, but what does that look like? You can confront him in Gongaga (optional, he has backup and the element of surprise, and still flees) the Gelnika (has backup, the element of surprise, and you have him cornered) and the final confrontation, where you can let him walk away or make him run.

That’s not really a “Now it’s my turn!” kind of character. The new church fight is expansion at the expense of characterization, like everything else I’ve seen.

He's also a character that commits mass murder because of orders. If his orders are to isolate Aerith from interlopers and/or anti-Shinra agents (like Avalanche), is he just going to slink away and let mooks handle it?

Also, he's the first one after Cloud and Aerith in the OG, isn't he? He just never catches up there because he's no Mario to Cloud's Donkey Kong.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Cloud's Donkey Kong.

?

 

[oty]

I think they should tough the Turks out, not exactly make them scary or deadlier, but make it seem like they are more powerful. And it seems that will happen, by the way we have seen them. I dont think it's so farfetched to think SE isnt making them more serious somewhat. I do believe that, in the essence, they are a more comical group of characters, simply because there were so many funny moments they appeared back in the original, it was clear they were somewhat of a comical relief. Not that they were laughable, or they were useless, more like they had their own rules, not exactly super controlled by Shinra.

Also, apparently Kitase is going to be at Taipei Gaming Show, that also seems to make a division between "Trailer" and "Old trailer". I dont wanna get my hopes up, and I could have been baited, but what can we expect here?

 

[Ite]

@Mr. Ite
Wow, I don't know if I've ever found so much fault in an assessment from you. XD

I‘m choosing to see that as a compliment, lol. I don’t mind disagreeing on this point. What they do with the Turks won’t break FF7 in half, imo, as much as I want every element of the changes to be to my taste. When I go to Hamlet, I’m not gonna be miserable if they don’t nail Rozencrantz. I just like slippery, shadowy, measured Turks. There’s an opportunity to have more of that, but what I’ve seen is big dick energy and full frontal attacks — 1v1 with Reno, then Rude taking on two opponents at once. Not to my taste.

 

[Sephira]

I think they should tough the Turks out, not exactly make them scary or deadlier, but make it seem like they are more powerful. And it seems that will happen, by the way we have seen them. I dont think it's so farfetched to think SE isnt making them more serious somewhat. I do believe that, in the essence, they are a more comical group of characters, simply because there were so many funny moments they appeared back in the original, it was clear they were somewhat of a comical relief. Not that they were laughable, or they were useless, more like they had their own rules, not exactly super controlled by Shinra.

Also, apparently Kitase is going to be at Taipei Gaming Show, that also seems to make a division between "Trailer" and "Old trailer". I dont wanna get my hopes up, and I could have been baited, but what can we expect here?

Exactly, I think they are going to make them more powerful and a bit more serious -which is great!!- but without completely stripping away their funny side. Is true that they were way funnier in Advent Children than in the original game, but they do have their comical moments. And they're perfect like that.

 

[oty]

I think they should tough the Turks out, not exactly make them scary or deadlier, but make it seem like they are more powerful. And it seems that will happen, by the way we have seen them. I dont think it's so farfetched to think SE isnt making them more serious somewhat. I do believe that, in the essence, they are a more comical group of characters, simply because there were so many funny moments they appeared back in the original, it was clear they were somewhat of a comical relief. Not that they were laughable, or they were useless, more like they had their own rules, not exactly super controlled by Shinra.

Also, apparently Kitase is going to be at Taipei Gaming Show, that also seems to make a division between "Trailer" and "Old trailer". I dont wanna get my hopes up, and I could have been baited, but what can we expect here?

Apparently, he's gonna be there for an hour and a part of that is going to be dedicated to signings, that have limited people (I believe 30 max)

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I‘m choosing to see that as a compliment, lol.

It mostly is!

 

[Jairus]

I'm sure they would find a way to make them less comic, more aggressive, perhaps... but that would be too much, I think. We all know this is a reimagination more than a remake per se, but I don't think they would completely strip away the funny essence of The Turks.

True, I can see that. And as I said, it was just a hypothetical example. I doubt it'll really happen like that.

Anywho, if we see the Avalanche crew die before the plate drops, in an odd way, isn't that going to make Reno seem less culpable than he did in the original game? At least for them. Unless he kills them personally, of course, but I'm not expecting that.

Well, true he wouldn't be killing them, but Shinra still would, and it would have much more of an impact on us to actually see it happen than to simply hear about it from Cloud after he, Tifa, and Barret escape. And speaking of that, something I've always wondered about that moment in the original game is, why didn't Cloud go back and get Jessie before they escaped? She was still alive when he left her, hurt but not dead, and she was right near the top. I can understand not going back for Biggs and Wedge, they were all the way at the bottom, but Jessie was right there only twenty feet or so away and they just left her. Cloud could have had her on his back or something when they escaped on the wire. Then she could have spent the bulk of the game recuperating with Elmyra and Marlene, which would have kept the rest of the story unchanged.

Oh and when is this Taipei Game Show? I really hope it's a new trailer.

 

[Ite]

something I've always wondered about that moment in the original game is, why didn't Cloud go back and get Jessie before they escaped? She was still alive when he left her, hurt but not dead, and she was right near the top. I can understand not going back for Biggs and Wedge, they were all the way at the bottom, but Jessie was right there only twenty feet or so away and they just left her. Cloud could have had her on his back or something when they escaped on the wire. Then she could have spent the bulk of the game recuperating with Elmyra and Marlene, which would have kept the rest of the story unchanged.

They had about ten seconds to get on the wire. Even if you’re as bad with the PS1 controls as my wife was, the escape sequence is almost instant. There was no time to get her. Is this honestly something you have always wondered about? The pillar was exploding before Tseng’s chopper even left.

 

[Jairus]

They were running around for several moments before Barret even saw the wire. The scene doesn't proceed until you talk to him and he does. There's just a bunch of rumbling but the explosion doesn't really escalate until you actually escape. So there was time. Not much, sure, but still a little. And I have wondered about it, yes.

 

[oty]

True, I can see that. And as I said, it was just a hypothetical example. I doubt it'll really happen like that.



Well, true he wouldn't be killing them, but Shinra still would, and it would have much more of an impact on us to actually see it happen than to simply hear about it from Cloud after he, Tifa, and Barret escape. And speaking of that, something I've always wondered about that moment in the original game is, why didn't Cloud go back and get Jessie before they escaped? She was still alive when he left her, hurt but not dead, and she was right near the top. I can understand not going back for Biggs and Wedge, they were all the way at the bottom, but Jessie was right there only twenty feet or so away and they just left her. Cloud could have had her on his back or something when they escaped on the wire. Then she could have spent the bulk of the game recuperating with Elmyra and Marlene, which would have kept the rest of the story unchanged.

Oh and when is this Taipei Game Show? I really hope it's a new trailer.

February 6-9th, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm not sure I know exactly what I thought, but there's definitely an argument to be made that they each die after Cloud talks to them. They both get the...trailing...off....ellipses... with the last thing they say to you. But they may be passed out.

In the remake it looks like machine gun fire is destroying the stair case (the Nomura Cloud-Tifa hand reach). So now there may not be a way to get back.

And furthermore, the fact that time doesn't technically move until you talk to Barret doesn't really have bearing one what is "actually" happening. Obviously the implication is that the pillar is blowing up NOW. There's not time to run back down the stairs. I mean what is this, Rinoa hanging off a cliff in VIII?

 

[Jairus]

Except that as I said, Jessie was practically right at the top, so there wouldn't have been many stairs to run down in the first place. And I think the pause in time does matter, as it shows that for several moments, they're just running around and the explosion hasn't really peaked yet, just the uppermost parts starting to blow and pieces starting to fall. But there was likely at least a minute or two in between that and when Barret found the wire given that they had time to stand there and gape in the first place. Just barely enough for Cloud to have gone back for Jessie while Barret searched for an escape route. No reason they couldn't have done both at the same time. And remember, Cloud's bound to be a little faster than the average person because of his Jenova enhancements, not just stronger.

And there's no way to tell from the trailer if the staircase-blowing moment in the remake happens before or after you reach Jessie. It's possible, due to certain dialogue at the start of the TGS trailer that we only hear but don't see said, that she actually makes it up to the top with Barret alive and unharmed this time and her end comes there and not on the stairs. It's just a guess, but in the trailer, Tifa called out to both Barret and Jessie but we never actually see her doing it. Then Barret responds, again without us seeing him talk, asking her where she and Cloud have been, which could be from the moment they reach the top of the pillar rather than the ghost attack in the slums where the dialogue plays over in the trailer. But dialogue tends to be mixed up and rearranged in trailers, so it's a good bet it doesn't actually come from the ghost attack scene at all. And later in the trailer, we see Barret and Jessie running up the stairs and leaving Biggs, Wedge, and some other folks behind. The last we see, Jessie is a little ahead of Barret on the stairs but they're both past where most of the fighting seems to have been going on. So it's possible she's there with Barret this time when Cloud and Tifa reach the top.

 

[ForceStealer]

A "minute or two" after the explosions have already started? No way.

But whatever, I know it's no use discussing "what ifs" that involve Jessie with you.