Final Fantasy XVI

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
It's always British accents because that's the one you can use without offending people. Making up an accent is hard work, but if you use, say, an Indian accent for Archadia, people ask things like 'are you saying the Indians are evil imperialists?'

French would be more accurate for medieval history, I think, but general audiences might get confused.

This is funny because the whole British = stand in for all of Europe is a big pet peeve of mine. Especially in productions that are specifically placed somewhere in Europe (the most recent example I could think of being HBO's Chernobyl - great series, but I was really annoyed by everyone being British in Ukraine). Not really to do with FF16, I just wanted a reason to complain about that :sadpanda:
 
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Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
when the protagonist does that angry face at the end of the trailer, i don't know what it is but there's still a softness to his face and i find it hard to take his rage seriously. it's like an angry puppy to me

00j8ASk.jpg
 

Prism

Pro Adventurer
AKA
pikpixelart
Oh right, forgot about them. Still haven't had any gay men though, have we?
Heh....this guy forgot about the best characters in the game. Even then, they were just heavily implied, not strictly official. They haven’t gone out and explicitly made gay characters. I’m sure it’ll happen sooner than later.

Regarding the races of Final Fantasy characters, Mako’s the one I’m in the closest alignment to right now. Final Fantasy characters are ethnicity-vague designs that draw heavily into Japanese beauty standards, usually adopting features from a wide array of IRL peoples.

While it’s true there’s some idealization of foreign facial features in Japan, this is not entirely true - “sunken-in eyes with huge noses” is the other side of that coin - Japanese society holds both of those beliefs regarding western faces. I feel like Cloud and Aerith take western features and put them on a Japanese facial frame. Even Barret has some Asian influence on his features, IMO.

Anyway, yeah, fantasy worlds shouldn’t play by our historical rules. In anime, intended ethnicity is really best indicated by the names used. Spike Spiegel is probably Jewish, Ayukawa Madoka is Japanese.

Edit: the use of British accents is a localization choice, too. Not necessarily indicative of original intent. Still, with names like “Joshua...”
 
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Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
Heh....this guy forgot about the best characters in the game.
In my defense, I never even got far enough into XIII to get Fang in the party. I just couldn't manage that game.
Inb4 @Fangu kills me lol.
In anime, intended ethnicity is really best indicated by the names used. Spike Spiegel is probably Jewish, Ayukawa Madoka is Japanese.
If I recall, they only picked "Spike Spiegel" because it sounded cool. I want to believe though.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
French would be more accurate for medieval history, I think, but general audiences might get confused.

Actually no, because what is French in medieval history? There's langue d'Oc and langue d'Oïl that separate North and South and then a myriad of local languages with people who weren't able to understand their 50km away neighbours LOL. Yes, I'm the historical nerd, it's me. Also, I don't fucking care about historical accuracy for a game that's called Final FANTASY because I want a game that's playing with the fantastic side.

All in all it depends on how the creators want to build their world. They can have *some* accuracy by saying that women aren't on the battlefield, and then blast you away with one of the most important characters being a woman on the battlefield. Did women fight in the past? Yes, there have been women fighting, but we also know that compared to men on the battlefields, they were very few and between. It doesn't mean they were never fighting as well as don't mean they were a usual sight (I remember the tomb of a woman with a sword by her side, for example, from early medieval ages, something like 8th or 9th century?). So they would be historically accurate if they chose to portray one or two women on the battlefield. As well as if they chose to have none.

But seriously, it's just the reveal trailer, so there is way more to come. The interesting tidbit is that indeed, this time around the summons seem to possess a human (maybe also alien races? Who knows) to come to fight. Question is: why do they accept to be summoned, do they have something to gain from this? The summoner's body seem to have an especially high value, and I'm not sure it's 100% a good thing? For example, how come a kid is one? Is there some trade off, are they chosen at birth by the summon? It seems there can be only one of a type at once, so the fact that there are two fire types, is that just this one time around, or are the summoners multiplying, meaning that they also lose "value"? I'm guessing it's all linked to the crystals, and I wonder how the gameplay around this will be.
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Eerie, I stand corrected. I remember hearing somewhere that French was more the language of trade and diplomacy than English, but obviously everything varies.

I mean, they could be talking about Shiva, who certainly does stand out. Given all the other games in the series, there's no reason to really believe that there will be any fewer women on the battlefield than any other game.
 

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
1600463652797.png
I don’t see Japanese features on display here, I see Western European features. But maybe that’s just me.
 
I’m not “looking to be offended” jesus, I just said that the “women aren’t warriors” trope in a make believe world is a cringey thing to do.

I disagree. It depends on the kind of world you want to present, the kind of story you want to tell, the messages you want to convey.
Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a make-believe world in which war is considered a very low-class activity, only disposable people are warriors, and women are too powerful and important to be wasted on the battlefield. I'd love to see a make-believe world that didn't make warrior synonymous with hero.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
French became much more important later on, during the French Renaissance indeed. That's when the Academy was created, the king wanted a sophisticated language and that's how it was born. But even then it remained a court thing, France is sadly known for hunting down its various languages during the 19th century - when France became France through French. French was a tool to allow people to feel French first and foremost.

I think women in battles in this FF game are likely to hold positions of power. So, like that Shiva summoner, probably.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
This is why I said "in YoshiP we trust". Right now I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not about to ignore red flags either. The truth is we don't know how this game is going to go with regard to its female characters, so we shouldn't be getting down on people for feeling some kind of way about potential issues when the last mainline entry did set a poor precedent.
In fairness to XV -- and owing largely to the decision to present its narrative in a fragmented form -- basically anyone who wasn't Noctis was lucky to get a thoroughly explored present and backstory. And for that matter, going off the base game itself at launch, even he didn't get that.

If we go with all of the media available at launch (the game, the movie, the OVA, and the little audio drama) ... I guess Prompto does alright in that regard? But not even that much better than Lunafreya or Ravus?

If we look at the final state of the game plus all DLC and other media, Gladio still doesn't come out all that great. Prompto and Ignis do come out great, as do Lunafreya and Aranea. Iris and Cidney do slightly less well than Gladio. Ravus and Cor arguably do better than Gladio.

Really, there's so many ways to approach analyzing XV on this -- but given that there's not a whole lot of character development for anyone who isn't Noctis (just character exploration), most of the cast comes out about the same relative to one another. We get to know who they are in the present and a general sense of what makes them who they are. Even Cidney had this in the base game.

Now, inarguably we spend less time with any female characters than we do the Chocobros, but that's a whole separate topic from how they're handled when they are around -- and also a mostly unavoidable result given the deliberate (one-off) design structure of the story as a roadtrip between bros. If looking at this metric, we end up with some wildly different results again depending on the point in ongoing support for the title we look at and what media we're including.

Going off just the base game at launch, of the female cast, Iris and Aranea do best in this regard by far, and comparable to one another. Incorporating all media at the launch of the game, Lunafreya probably comes out a little better than they do. Taking stock of the final state of the game plus all DLC and media, Lunafreya comes out better (in exploration, development, time spent with her, etc.) than most FF female characters. Aranea comes close to this. Iris and Cidney are now far behind -- but probably still not too far behind Gladio. :awesome:

tl;dr: There's nothing to be worried over. :monster:
 

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
I disagree. It depends on the kind of world you want to present, the kind of story you want to tell, the messages you want to convey.
Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a make-believe world in which war is considered a very low-class activity, only disposable people are warriors, and women are too powerful and important to be wasted on the battlefield. I'd love to see a make-believe world that didn't make warrior synonymous with hero.

You might’ve enjoyed my D&D world, where my matriarchal anarchocommunist elven society put warriors so low on the social pecking order that the women saw no value in becoming warriors. This, however, I kind of realized was partly motivated by my desire to use elven warriors as meat for the grinding, and didn’t want to senselessly slaughter a bunch of women in a game of make believe with my friends. Is that sexist? I’m not sure, but it definitely was coming from a meta perspective and not immersed in the world (an anarchocommunist matriarchy would surely have some women who wanted nothing more than to bash in the heads of dinosaurs and gremlins).

Do I think that the “a woman on the battlefield will stick out like a sore thumb” is a trope so vile that is CANCELS the game? Absolutely not. It’s just tiresome and makes me wince, because if there is a meta reason for it, I must assume that meta reason is about not rocking the patriarchy’s boat, rather than some high-falutin concept that will challenge medievalist thinking, while appearing medievalist. I feel like something like that would have taken more of a centre stage in this trailer, like, say, having a female character with a name.
 

leowhy77

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
LeoWHY
Just a suggestion that shall we not too “over analysed and conclusive” especially concerning the game inherited world culture thing (race/sex oriented) for now? It’s just the beginning of a <5mins trailer!

From the trailer where it didn’t show any female playable character, my guess it’s dev decision to reserve her for the upcoming trailers... to give us a “wow” factor....

Remember the general crowd reactions when FF7R showing off Tifa? People had been highly anticipating Tifa’s final design and the result was... well, I think that’s a similar motive here...
 

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
Just a suggestion that shall we not too “over analysed and conclusive” especially concerning the game inherited world culture thing (race/sex oriented) for now? It’s just the beginning of a <5mins trailer!

From the trailer where it didn’t show any female playable character, my guess it’s dev decision to reserve her for the upcoming trailers... to give us a “wow” factor....

Remember the general crowd reactions when FF7R showing off Tifa? People had been highly anticipating Tifa’s final design and the result was... well, I think that’s a similar motive here...

You’re quite right, Leo. For my part, I’m interested to learn more about the high status woman at the war council and her quasi-Irish accent (is it deliberate? :P) but for now all things are unknown — remember how similar FFXV was to the Shakespeare trailer of Versus XIII.
 

leowhy77

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
LeoWHY
You’re quite right, Leo. For my part, I’m interested to learn more about the high status woman at the war council and her quasi-Irish accent (is it deliberate? :P) but for now all things are unknown — remember how similar FFXV was to the Shakespeare trailer of Versus XIII.

I can only say probably for now? lol

Anyway a bit of diversion... I am amazed by the Malboro fighting sequence... I mean the latest version I seen this creature is in FF7R simulator and this one is in the wild and very nasty looking...

And what about little enemy’s the player fight? Some kind of magical mutated monsters?

I also wonder what the battle concept they introduce this time... the magic seems directly generated from their body so it’s in born or infused with “crystals( this game main theme)? What I mean is how is this compare to Materia in FF7 or Guardian Force in FF8...

Last but not least, can I roughly interpret this game theme as humans factions are fighting among themselves and summon monsters are also fighting among themselves?
 

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
Last but not least, can I roughly interpret this game theme as humans factions are fighting among themselves and summon monsters are also fighting among themselves?

I get the same notion. I took from the logo that the humans would be swept up in a godswar, and that the squabble of human factions will give way to a supernatural threat playing both sides against the middle — again, it’s very Ivalice in a way that has me salivating.

I love that logo and the whole idea of Ifrit vs. Phoenix. Fight fire with fire!! Make a go BIG BOOM!
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
I kind of realized was partly motivated by my desire to use elven warriors as meat for the grinding, and didn’t want to senselessly slaughter a bunch of women in a game of make believe with my friends. Is that sexist?
In the context of your dnd campaign I'd say it doesn't really matter, but I'm now wondering whether it's more sexist to keep women out of battle because "it would be senseless to slaughter women," or if it's more sexist that you think it's fine for men to be disposable meat for the slaughter.
 
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