Final Fantasy XVI

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532501682386374656

 

[ph14basicbitch]

I feel pretty meh about this, but I'll still play it because it's a main numbered FF game.

The story presented in the 2 trailers doesn't really grab my attention, the characters nor their designs really stick out. Many of them look like they were designed in FF14's character creator lol. I've played multiple games where you can only control 1 dude, but I just don't associate that w/FF at all - my first FF was 6, and going around and re-obtaining my gang in the World of Ruin was definitely part of the experience. Here we have no party members, just Clive swapping between each summons and seemingly using a magic spell (triangle) and a "special" related to each summon (circle).

The game is "takes place in ye olden days" but has a distractingly out of place modern UI with a future-y font that reminds me of FF13 and a spam of piss yellow damage numbers flying at the player, bright neon green glowing HP bar, blah blah. Tbh, I would be more interested in the game if it turns out that Clive was wandering around fucking the other Dominants to get Eikon powers (the trailer shows him in bed with Garuda's dom mommy), but alas - there's no way Square-Enix would subject their white male protagonist to that lol.

As someone who used to really love FF14 but now just sees it as "something you log in to every 3mo", I'm sure this will be a Sure Fine Video Game made by YoshiP and the boys, and all of the FF14 stans who think YoshiP is single handedly saving the company will surely celebrate its release, but right now I just can't bring myself to care that much. Like Sprites, I also thought this trailer was, idk, weird?

Relatedly: I am very tired of "Fantasy = British".

Is that Ifrit fighting Ifrit at the very end? Maybe Clive punching his out of control lil bro

There is a spot in the trailer where they show Phoenix on the left side (player character), then "Eikon of Fire" w/Ifrit's icon on the right as the enemy, Ifrit uses Hellfire, and Phoenix gets 1 shot by the move, so it seems he already 1 shot lil bro.

 

[Theozilla]

The aesthetic of FFXVI is far more FFTactics than FFXIV though, which isn’t a surprise since a good chunk of the devs are Tactics and other Ivalice veterans.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532493430911389700

 

[ph14basicbitch]

My remark was that the characters look like they were designed in the FF14 character creator, not that the aesthetic is FF14. As in, you could open up the FF14 character creator and make a few of these characters right now without using FF14 mods. There is a joke on Twitter right now that the Leatherworker guild NPC is Benedikta, for example.

But on the subject of specific names:
- The character artist of 16 is Kazuya Takahashi, who did not work on Ivalice, but is a staff artist on FF14. It seems some of his art for FF14 is mistaken for Akihiko Yoshida's, who did work on Ivalice and also did some of the FF14 expansion key artwork.
- Hiroshi Minagawa worked on both Ivalice and 14, yes. His signature as a UI designer is, from what I recall from his FF14 Fanfest appearance, that he will always pick icons that visually communicate over just using text which is why so much of FF14 is "icon-ified" (e.g. the grand company seals are icons with numbers next to them, the beast tribe tokens are icons with numbers instead of "Storm Seals: xxx"). We haven't really had a chance to see this in FF16 yet, though I do assume the summons having portrait icons w/identifying colors on Clive's player bar are some of his influence.

 

[Theozilla]

The tweet I linked didn’t specifically mention Kazuya Takahashi though? It mentioned Kazutoyo Maehiro?

As for characters looking like they could be created in the FFXIV, character creator, I am not sure if that is that meaningful, since the point of the character creator is that it can create a great variety of characters.
The in-game engine character graphics of FFXIV is basically just a lower visual fidelity version of the style the SE Image Studio Division (aka formerly Visual Works) does for Final Fantasy in general for the past 10+ years or so.

 

[ph14basicbitch]

I brought up Kazuya Takahashi because:
1) My remark was about the character designs, and he is the actual character designer.
2) You brought up "it isn't the FF14 aesthetic, it's the Ivalice aesthetic". But Takahashi's work is, as I mentioned, sometimes mistaken for the work of Yoshida (one of the Ivalice art people) which Takahashi himself is not one of the Ivalice game artists.

 

[cold_spirit]

Here's my quickest of quick gameplay analysis.

L2:
Switch Eikon powers (trailer shows up to 3)

Up, Right, Down on D-pad:
Use items

Triangle:
Use magic/projectile (screenshot below shows Aero)

Square:
Attack

X (or Cross lol):
Jump

Circle:
Eikon ability (screenshot below shows Deadly Embrace)

R2:
Now this is where things get interesting. Pressing or holding R2 appears to switch the actions of Triangle and Square. From the trailer, Garuda turns Aero into Wicked Wheel and Attack into Gouge. These are probably powerful moves with special properties like ATB abilities in FFVIIR.





Lastly, you can see Clive switch Eikon mid-combo at 00:57. This system appears to be similar to DMC: Devil May Cry's angel and demon weapon switching, which is a good thing because it felt very fluid in that game.

 

[ph14basicbitch]

There's also the Odin gauge that pops up and starts building when Clive uses the alt skills on triangle and square:



I'm guessing it's related to the orange yellow gatorade gauge being full at 3 (when he uses the alt Garuda skills, there's no Garuda meter that pops up, but he also isn't at 3 bars), or maybe it's related to how the other games had a mechanic w/Odin and doom/death?

Edit: I guess this screenshot kind of also shows the stagger mechanic on regular mobs, if you can see it under the spam of yellow 13s. The bosses stagger bar is probably the one under their HP bars, and I'm guessing the markers/dashes indicate where the boss phase changes are. Certainly an improvement over FF7R not having an in-game indicator on their HP bars about when they phase change and/or when the stagger resets lol.

Edit 2: I forgot to include this one when I posted, but here Clive is using Shiva, with Garuda and Phoenix as the other 2 Eikons in waiting, but his R2 skills on the bottom right include purple icons one of which is a thunder skill. I guess you can set the R2 commands to be another Eikon's powers as these must be Ramuh's. (I thought you might get locked into only using your current Eikon's skills.)

 

[cold_spirit]

Yeah not sure what the orange yellow gatorade bars are for. It doesn't appear that using the alt square or triangle actions consume them. They also don't appear on Clive early in the trailer when he has more than one Eikon. My guess is that it's some mechanic that's added after the timeskip.

Good catch with the stagger! Interestingly, it doesn't look like you build up the stagger bar like in VIIR, but chip away at it at first. Below is a screenshot of Clive using a big move on the Coeurl and you can see that both it's HP and stagger bars are being depleted.



Then once staggered, you build it back up?

 

[ph14basicbitch]

Yeah I think it works more like the break gauge in Stranger of Paradise? Where the enemy starts with [x] gauge and you whittle it down. I thought the vertical lines represented phase changes or something, but after re-watching the trailer it seems they're just visuals to communicate "this is where 50% is" to the player.

I believe what your arrow is pointing to in the 2nd screencap is the stagger bar acting as a timer for the staggered state - when it fills up, the enemy is un-staggered.

Edit: My interpretation of the "loading bar" around the triangle and square magic is a recast timer.

After he uses Wicked Wheel, the icon fades (indicating it's on cooldown), and the loading bar-y effect starts.

 

[cold_spirit]

One final thing to note, you can see bar build up around Aero while Clive is attacking the Coeurl. Maybe completing it upgrades it to Aeroa? Regardless, this game definitely encourages aggression as so many meters go up and down as you attack.



I have to say, this game looks rad. I'm a bit too battle-hardened to get "hyped" like I did as a kiddo, but I'm certainly looking forward to XVI and think it has the potential to be the best single-player FF since X (and I like XII and XIII !!!)

 

[Wol]

gameplay-wise this is looking like the best put together action system ever done by SQ. But this is no surprise given the designer also worked on Dragon's Dogma and DMCV.

somehow it reminds me of the first XIII teaser, which featured a target render cinematic system + big numbers and indicators popping up in the screen. It looks cinematic as fuck.

Also the summon designs are incredible, very gritty and detailed.

 

[Roger]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532504266019164160

 

[Wol]

I somewhat agree with the opinions regarding characters and world looking a bit bland or at least not particularly unique, but is this really important?

Development wasn't a clusterfuck
Localization and voice-acting is not sounding cringy
Battle system done by a highly competent designer
Music and presentation on point

This is looking like a case of substance over style and I prefer it this way tbh if the end product is solid enough.

 

[Torrie]

What my FFXV experience has taught me is that the characters only seem bland until you've spend a while with them and let them grow on you. I'm semi-excited about XVI because it's the first real time that I've been able to share the hype about the development and news with other FF fans, but I'm currently more on board with futuristic rather than medieval style and atmosphere, BUT it's promising to be a case of AAA dark fantasy AND it's a Final Fantasy game after all, so yeah, I'm excited anyway!

 

[Theozilla]

I don’t think we’ve seems enough of the world/environments for it to be fairly judged as “bland”.
I can more understand that feeling for the character design sensibilities, as it is definitely going for the more muted and grungy style of FFTactics than the more stylistic flourishes that FFXII (and FFXIV) had.

The only major issue that I am worrying about, is that it seems like Clive is our only playable character; and we don’t even have A.I. party members?
And to be clear, I am not necessarily trying to argue that the game will be bad with only Clive as the only playable character (and maybe the Eikons when you take control of them).
It’s more that I think (and likely others as well) that having party members (and typically playable ones) is an element pretty integral to the Final Fantasy franchise, particularly the main numbered single player entries (it’s part of why character switching being added to FFXV made many happy, or people enjoying the added Trusts and NPC-RP solo duties with the supporting cast in FFXIV are enjoyed by many FF fans). So the game could be game of the year quality, but at the same time I might still feel like something is missing if party members/other playable characters are a feature absent in the game.

 

[Fiz]

I don’t think we’ve seems enough of the world/environments for it to be fairly judged as “bland”.
I can more understand that feeling for the character design sensibilities, as it is definitely going for the more muted and grungy style of FFTactics than the more stylistic flourishes that FFXII (and FFXIV) had.

The only major issue that I am worrying about, is that it seems like Clive is our only playable character; and we don’t even have A.I. party members?
And to be clear, I am not necessarily trying to argue that the game will be bad with only Clive as the only playable character (and maybe the Eikons when you take control of them).
It’s more that I think (and likely others as well) that having party members (and typically playable ones) is an element pretty integral to the Final Fantasy franchise, particularly the main numbered single player entries (it’s part of why character switching being added to FFXV made many happy, or people enjoying the added Trusts and NPC-RP solo duties with the supporting cast in FFXIV are enjoyed by many FF fans). So the game could be game of the year quality, but at the same time I might still feel like something is missing if party members/other playable characters are a feature absent in the game.

This is where I am. It wont be a deal breaker if there isnt a group of playable characters, but it will be something I'll judge negatively because its part of why I enjoy FF and JRPG's. Also, if FF moves away from group based combat, then action RPG's that have a group will become thin on the ground again.

 

[JBedford]

I'm not interested. Never especially been a fan of action combat games. I choose to play FF, and I choose not to play DMC.

I think the lack of a party is the real killer. I don't know why this game is a mainline Final Fantasy game. I mean I'm all for each FF having its own identity and constantly mixing things up, but there's a point where I question why it even has the brand. Is FF nothing more than a flavour of summons? Sometimes there's crystals?

Ordinarily a mainline FF would be something I habitually play (unless it's an MMO), but since this is just another game, whether this goes on my to-play list will depend entirely on if it reviews very well.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I feel like someone should make an alignment meme of "What is a Final Fantasy," with FFXVI being the Chaotic/Rebel Neutral.

FF1 would be the starting point of Lawful/Purist Good/Traditional.

FFXIII would be the Lawful/Purist Evil/Radical.

 

[Fiz]

I'm not interested. Never especially been a fan of action combat games. I choose to play FF, and I choose not to play DMC.

I think the lack of a party is the real killer. I don't know why this game is a mainline Final Fantasy game. I mean I'm all for each FF having its own identity and constantly mixing things up, but there's a point where I question why it even has the brand. Is FF nothing more than a flavour of summons? Sometimes there's crystals?

Ordinarily a mainline FF would be something I habitually play (unless it's an MMO), but since this is just another game, whether this goes on my to-play list will depend entirely on if it reviews very well.

I feel like someone should make an alignment meme of "What is a Final Fantasy," with FFXVI being the Chaotic/Rebel Neutral.

FF1 would be the starting point of Lawful/Purist Good/Traditional.

FFXIII would be the Lawful/Purist Evil/Radical.

Lol. Well, FF for me is:

Proper storytelling that while serious doesn't take itself too seriously.

Group of unlikely heroes going up against unimaginable odds. Underdogs vs the machine - basically.

Character classes of some description with defined roles for each character.

Different types of people from different backgrounds coming together, learning about each other/how to accept each other for a greater cause.

Reads the rule of increasing stakes and goes "meh, hold my beer" and somehow pulls it off.

Blends fantasy, magic, often sci-fi or "tech" and superhero type character design.

Chocobos, summons, moogles, and other wacky stuff that shouldn't be there but also, totally should.


Isn't that basically FF's identity? Either way, its how I see the series and a single playable character goes against a load of that.

 

[LNK]

I'm really getting terra/ff6 vibes when it comes to the eikons. Based on the dialogue in this trailer, it's seems like the dominants turn into the them. If one dies, a new one can take their place. Not exactly like Terra being able to transform into an esper, but you get what I'm saying.

I can't wait to play this game. Not the biggest fan of action combat games, but ff7 remake wasn't exactly turn based, and I loved that combat system. Maybe I'll be able to get a ps5 for retail when this comes out lol

 

[Theozilla]

I think since greater emphasis on a “lead character” since FFVII and then the release of FFXI and FFXIV, and also the greater success of spin-offs like Crisis Core and other titles, the concept of multiple playable characters has become viewed (for better or for worse depending on one’s tastes) as a less essential element of “Final Fantasy” than the other common elements that there are a consensus on.

And yeah the Dominant/Eikon system basically sounds like how the Avatar in ATLA/TLoK works, but with one for each summon (at least that’s how it’s “supposed” to work, the two Ifrits at the end of the trailer is definitely supposed to be a twist/wrench in the system).
It’s also similar to the Holy Blood or Crests in some of the Fire Emblem games, with the inheritance of a magical quality being tied to social standing in society.

 

[Wol]

well having one playable character might result in more customization options (both in the battle system and gear options).

I doubt there won't be at least guest characters at some points.

Having a party travelling together is way more fun though.

 

[Fiz]

I've not read the entire thread so I don't know whether this has been brought up, but there is something I find off about the UI and the XVI thread on ResetEra has started pointing stuff out about it. The UI has carried over the sci-fi scheme similar to XIII+ which is a weird decision in a medieval fantasy game.

I find the trailer too "flashy" overall though, like, some restraint and thoughtfulness with the magic design would be nice.

I'm really getting terra/ff6 vibes when it comes to the eikons. Based on the dialogue in this trailer, it's seems like the dominants turn into the them. If one dies, a new one can take their place. Not exactly like Terra being able to transform into an esper, but you get what I'm saying.

I can't wait to play this game. Not the biggest fan of action combat games, but ff7 remake wasn't exactly turn based, and I loved that combat system. Maybe I'll be able to get a ps5 for retail when this comes out lol

Thats an interesting point, I hadn't made the connection.

 

[Wol]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532504252664381447

First one looks more generic, second looks almost like a painting.