Final Fantasy XVI

[Theozilla]

I let go of "the formula" when Square did: when they released X-2 and everything else that came after it. We've been doing this "but it's not *really* FF, is it?" dance in the fandom every single time post FFX. The answer is yes, it's all FF. At this point we've been in the "modern era" of FF for 20 years, since the Enix merger. Incidentally, that's longer than the initial run from I to X

Don't get me wrong, there's still a part of me that pines for the days we got a new world and story to sink our teeth into every one to two years but a time comes when you just need to let that go. They're going to do what they're going to do and you'll either like it or you won't.

All that said, yeah the old "band of misfits travelling the world to save it" trope is something I love about FF, but there's nothing to say that's not the case in XVI. And it doesn't necessarily need to be that either.

Yeah that's basically how I feel (though I don't really have the nostalgia in the same way since I only started playing FF games around 2011-2012 or so).

And while FFXVI may not have playable or even A.I. party members in combat (which I would miss), I don't doubt that the main character will still have major supporting characters/"a party" traveling with them in the story itself (like Heavensward did in FFXIV).

 

[LNK]

With each new Final Fantasy I don't know what I'm going to get. So the name "Final Fantasy" alone is meaningless to me.

This is my only point.

Just because you don't know what you're going to get in newer final fantasy games, that doesn't make the name meaningless for others though. That name still carries a lot of weight for a lot of us. I may not know what kind of combat system I'll get. Or if I'll have a core party that travels with me for the journey, but i know everything else is still there.

The trailers for FFXVI don't look to me like something specifically an "FF-fan" should be into because right now it doesn't seem to resemble anything from previous FF.

It may not resemble your idea of final fantasy, which is fine. What about other peoples' idea of final fantasy? That's why I brought up the people who never played anything before 13. Their whole idea of final fantasy is different from yours. Who's right and who's wrong, when it comes to "what is final fantasy?"

I disagree that 16 doesn't resemble anything from previous final fantasies, as well. I think you're being a little dishonest there.

 

[ultima786]

Uhh, that new trailer was fire

 

[JBedford]

I disagree that 16 doesn't resemble anything from previous final fantasies, as well. I think you're being a little dishonest there.

Because it features FF summons? It looks like an M-rated tale about an angry man going around murdering people who transform into monsters one-by-one to acquire their powers. I guess the probably evil empire in the background is very FF. Also the gameplay is DMC...

That's why I brought up the people who never played anything before 13. Their whole idea of final fantasy is different from yours. Who's right and who's wrong, when it comes to "what is final fantasy?"

I'm not talking about a personal idea of what Final Fantasy is. For our contexts, Final Fantasy is every roman numeraled Final Fantasy (every series gets wild in spin-offs). Each game the umbrella only widens, and there's not even a recent trend. X, XII, XIII, XV, and XVI each have vastly different combat. XV was the first action game, and yet XVI has already moved into the extremes of DMC-style action. How far we've come since the round-based system of FFI. (I'm sure the MMOs are each very much their own things too, I don't know).

It's not about old-style v. new-style. I'm talking old-style v. whatever they want to do this time. People who only played recent FFs were still not predicting this shift in gameplay. FF's identity can no longer be said to be in its gameplay.

I am primarily speaking about battle systems, because gameplay is king for me, and because it's hard to gather much else concrete from trailers.

 

[cold_spirit]

How can someone be such a Final Fantasy fan when the only guarantee is that the name includes the words "Final Fantasy" and Square's name will appear on it?

Some of the best advice I received in our current "age of content" is this:

Follow creators, not series or brands.

The lineage of FF creative leads spans generations. From Hironobu Sakaguchi, to Yoshinori Kitase and Hiroyuki Ito, to Tetsuya Nomura, Motomu Toriyama, and Naoki Yoshida. These people and the teams they lead are the true soul of FF, not summons or parties or whatever. At the end of the day, "Final Fantasy" is a brand name slapped on a bunch of video games to sell copies. What we're really following is the imagination of an extremely talented group of people. Personally, I think it's best when creators are allowed to make exactly what they want to make, even if it does push the envelope to some people. If that means FFXVI is a solo action-RPG, then so be it.

They're not bound to any formula, which is great for a developer but I think bad for a series. And if that doesn't ring even a little true then you can't be into many series.

Final Fantasy enjoys it's level of success as the most recognizable JRPG series in the world because of its spirit of reinvention, not despite it. Without that spirit, FF would still be in the shadow of Dragon Quest like it was on NES. It's the series' willingness to evolve that ensures we'll see FFXVII and beyond.

 

[LNK]

Because it features FF summons? It looks like an M-rated tale about an angry man going around murdering people who transform into monsters one-by-one to acquire their powers. I guess the probably evil empire in the background is very FF. Also the gameplay is DMC...

It also has heavy elements of fantasy, magic, the music, chocobos. Again, it has most of the core elements that all final fantasies have.

I'm not talking about a personal idea of what Final Fantasy is. For our contexts, Final Fantasy is every roman numeraled Final Fantasy (every series gets wild in spin-offs). Each game the umbrella only widens, and there's not even a recent trend. X, XII, XIII, XV, and XVI each have vastly different combat. XV was the first action game, and yet XVI has already moved into the extremes of DMC-style action. How far we've come since the round-based system of FFI. (I'm sure the MMOs are each very much their own things too, I don't know)

Yes, final fantasy has evolved from its first game. Even more so since SE was formed. Mario games evolved as well.
I don't get what point you're trying to make, besides you saying you don't get how people who claim to be ff fans, can say what I said.
When it comes down to it, it's true though. Whatever the creators put out under the name of final fantasy, is final fantasy. Just because they've changed their formula a bit, doesn't make it any less final fantasy. They decide what it is.

It's not about old-style v. new-style. I'm talking old-style v. whatever they want to do this time. People who only played recent FFs were still not predicting this shift in gameplay. FF's identity can no longer be said to be in its gameplay.

But, does it really matter, when it comes down to it? I get it does for you, but for people like me, it doesn't. Some of us don't make predictions about the gameplay. Especially because we didn't start from ff1

I am primarily speaking about battle systems, because gameplay is king for me, and because it's hard to gather much else concrete from trailers.

Already went over it, but there's summons/magic/bad guy/chocobos/fantasy medieval setting/music/Mc/story. Besides gameplay and possible lack of party members, it's got all the core elements.

 

[LNK]

Some of the best advice I received in our current "age of content" is this:

Follow creators, not series or brands.

The lineage of FF creative leads spans generations. From Hironobu Sakaguchi, to Yoshinori Kitase and Hiroyuki Ito, to Tetsuya Nomura, Motomu Toriyama, and Naoki Yoshida. These people and the teams they lead are the true soul of FF, not summons or parties or whatever. At the end of the day, "Final Fantasy" is a brand name slapped on a bunch of video games to sell copies. What we're really following is the imagination of an extremely talented group of people. Personally, I think it's best when creators are allowed to make exactly what they want to make, even if it does push the envelope to some people. If that means FFXVI is a solo action-RPG, then so be it.



Final Fantasy enjoys it's level of success as the most recognizable JRPG series in the world because of it's spirit of reinvention, not despite it. Without that spirit, FF would still be in the shadow of Dragon Quest like it was on NES. It's the series' willingness to evolve that ensures we'll see FFXVII and beyond.

It's the same reason why Nas is still putting out new music. After his untitled album, he evolved.

 

[Wol]

the first generations of the franchise maintained mostly the same identity because it was the same people at the helm (which also resulted in better consistency in quality and reception). PS2 era onwards had different teams developing their own games. Just look at the massive difference from XII to X or XV to XIII.

 

[Theozilla]

the first generations of the franchise maintained mostly the same identity because it was the same people at the helm (which also resulted in better consistency in quality and reception). PS2 era onwards had different teams developing their own games. Just look at the massive difference from XII to X or XV to XIII.

Though the technology of the time also limited how much variability could be done in a video game as well for the early FFs too.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

I think this was discussed long ago? Like even Sakaguchi commented on this stuff around 20 years ago or so?

 

[ultima786]

Follow creators, not series or brands.

While I appreciate what you are saying, the franchise itself does have an identity that is recognizable both in terms of imagery, spirit, and even quality. While I tend to be very closely tied to Nomura and Kitase, I am still going to watch FF closely as a whole. Afterall, this is Square's bonified franchise; they're gonna do whatever they can to ensure these games are all good. At least the mainline ones. There have been misses, for sure. But I've never regretted playing a Final Fantasy, even the ones I loved the least.

 

[Wol]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532541434708242432

Worth a read.

 

[Fiz]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532541434708242432

Worth a read.

I'm still not feeling it. The more I look at it, the more doubts I'm having.


The character designs really aren't inspiring to me. They feel so, same old, same old. Even Clives name makes me feel underwhelmed.

All this talk about Ivalice-inspired FF's and political storytelling also isn't helping. FF-T wasn't my thing, FF12 is the only FF I DNF'd because it started to drag and just lost steam for me and I'm not a grear lover of FF14... I mean its pretty good but not enough for me to rave over it.

The thought of only having Clive playable isn't resonating with me.

I don't even know what I think about it having an adult age rating. Thats new and when FF goes "dark and edgy" it can have mixed results. While FF6 and FF7OG did well, I have Dirge of Cerberus flashbacks.

I don't know, I will definitely be following it and picking it up. But I have this sinking feeling that its not going to do the western thing a well as western games and not do the Japanese thing a well as other Japanese games. If that makes sense.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Dirge of Cerberus didn't have an adult age rating lol

The more apt comparison would be FFXV and FF Type 0.

 

[Fiz]

Dirge of Cerberus didn't have an adult age rating lol

The more apt comparison would be FFXV and FF Type 0.

I meant the edge. Lol

I mean, we don't have much to go on. It came to mind because its darker and edgier.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'd say with 1000% accuracy that FFXV and especially Type-0 are far more edgier than Dirge of Cerberus.

Aside from the memorable character designs and Gackt's inclusion, DC is not nearly as heavy or tinged with pain and loss like those two games are.

Hell, how could I forget Stranger of Paradise, Final Fantasy Origin? That's edgier too

 

[Wol]

I'm still not feeling it. The more I look at it, the more doubts I'm having.


The character designs really aren't inspiring to me. They feel so, same old, same old. Even Clives name makes me feel underwhelmed.

All this talk about Ivalice-inspired FF's and political storytelling also isn't helping. FF-T wasn't my thing, FF12 is the only FF I DNF'd because it started to drag and just lost steam for me and I'm not a grear lover of FF14... I mean its pretty good but not enough for me to rave over it.

The thought of only having Clive playable isn't resonating with me.

I don't even know what I think about it having an adult age rating. Thats new and when FF goes "dark and edgy" it can have mixed results. While FF6 and FF7OG did well, I have Dirge of Cerberus flashbacks.

I don't know, I will definitely be following it and picking it up. But I have this sinking feeling that its not going to do the western thing a well as western games and not do the Japanese thing a well as other Japanese games. If that makes sense.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

It's OK if it's not your thing. But I don't see how XVI is edgy at all. The quality of the dialogues and voice-acting + non-focus on stylish flamboyant designs is a good indicator that it will be better than Doc lol (in terms of maturity, but also in general).

 

[Fiz]

It's OK if it's not your thing. But I don't see how XVI is edgy at all. The quality of the dialogues and voice-acting + non-focus on stylish flamboyant designs is a good indicator that it will be better than Doc lol (in terms of maturity, but also in general).

Its going to have an M-rating which isn't typical for FF and I would expect its taking on a darker, more adult tone. I wasn't seriously suggesting that it'll be like DoC, but, I'm not sure how this will be.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I’ve seen and heard the word “edgy” so much at this point that I have to think about what exactly people mean when they use it…like sometimes it’s a synonym for “mature” and other times it means trying too hard to be mature to the point of looking childish lol

 

[Fiz]

I’ve seen and heard the word “edgy” so much at this point that I have to think about what exactly people mean when they use it…like sometimes it’s a synonym for “mature” and other times it means trying too hard to be mature to the point of looking childish lol

Edgy can mean a whole bunch of things. Thats kinda my problem with the age rating. The BIB is my concern.

Slapping an 18 rating on it is a big change for FF and means what exactly?


Does it mean its more graphic?

Does it mean the story is darker, grittier, more on the nose, and more mature (thoughtfully dark, with compelling purpose and meaning)?

Or does it mean its going to be tryhard or "anime dark"?

If its the first, meh, but fine. The second is also fine, the latter... thats what I'm worried about. What dark often means in games and anime are the latter.


It is one of my lesser concerns, I'm just aware that M rated content is very unusual for SE whose model is almost entirely aimed at children and younger teens.

 

[Wol]

Edgy can mean a whole bunch of things. Thats kinda my problem with the age rating. The BIB is my concern.

Slapping an 18 rating on it is a big change for FF and means what exactly?


Does it mean its more graphic?

Does it mean the story is darker, grittier, more on the nose, and more mature (thoughtfully dark, with compelling purpose and meaning)?

Or does it mean its going to be tryhard or "anime dark"?

If its the first, meh, but fine. The second is also fine, the latter... thats what I'm worried about. What dark often means in games and anime are the latter.


It is one of my lesser concerns, I'm just aware that M rated content is very unusual for SE whose model is almost entirely aimed at children and younger teens.

Look at the team's past projects and you'll get an idea. I don't think it's their style to do anime dark just to look dark.

 

[Lulcielid]

Speaking of rating, FF16 doesn't have an official rating yet, only a provisorial +18 from PEGI.

 

[Fiz]

Speaking of rating, FF16 doesn't have an official rating yet, only a provisorial +18 from PEGI.

Nothing in that article suggests it won't be M-Rated/18, its repeating pretty much what I was saying about it being darker, edgier and more mature.

Its also worth noting that larger media companies are often sent press packs around major announcements that give key talking points relating to the product. So media companies highlighting stuff such as that this is a new, darker, edgier FF is likely indicated.

Its being pointed at the adult market and will be 18 in most places.

Look at the team's past projects and you'll get an idea. I don't think it's their style to do anime dark just to look dark.

This is the thing though, what projects are representative of this shift? While these games sometimes touch on more mature themes or ideas, and get dive into darker elements, they aren't aimed at an adult market. While some games have a PEGI 16, these are typically due to depictions of blood, suicide, smoking or drinking rather than because the content is more adult.

A 16 and 18 rating isn't just a result of more blood either, its typically the entire tone. So, this will likely be a very different experience to the FF's of the past.

FF moving into an 18+ age rating is a significant shift and puts FF into unchartered territory.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's not new though. FF Type 0 was rated the M equivalent in Japan, back when it was released only in Japan in 2011 and then when it released as an HD remaster in 2015.

And then there's Stranger of Paradise, FF Origin which came out in March. FF has dabbled and released 2 rated M games already.

FFXV came the close to an M but they somehow toned down some of the death and stuff. But FF has always dabbled in M themes. They're just going fully into it now.

 

[Fiz]

It's not new though. FF Type 0 was rated the M equivalent in Japan, back when it was released only in Japan in 2011 and then when it released as an HD remaster in 2015.

And then there's Stranger of Paradise, FF Origin which came out in March. FF has dabbled and released 2 rated M games already.

FFXV came the close to an M but they somehow toned down some of the death and stuff. But FF has always dabbled in M themes. They're just going fully into it now.

Firstly, the age rating is one of the lesser things that bother me. I know some FF games can reach into PEGI 16, and there have been some dabbling with spinoffs.

But, when I'm concerned about tone, FF Type 0 and Stranger of Paradise probably arent hallmarks to ease my concerns.

At the end of the day, I do not associate SE and the teams behind FF with adult content, I associate them with childrens and youth content; which is where the vast majority of their games sit. When the FF franchise steps outside of that we get mixed results.

Consistently, FF has been at its strongest when they have created content for younger audiences that have depth, complexity and maturity. When they have gone in heavier its often been stilted, a bit cringey, a bit "dark anime".