Improve Crisis Core Thread

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I'd say "slowly" works in a couple of ways. First of all, Zack isn't very bright, and he's deeply personally committed to his view of SOLDIER as heroes and Shinra as "great". One after another he finds himself in situations of creasing moral dubiousness, and the people and institutions he admire increasingly reveal their feet of clay. At first he makes excuses for them, and at first it's easy, but it becomes increasingly more difficult. To some extent, then, the fact that he ends up in one of Hojo's test-tubes is a consequences of his own moral failings, or at least his determination to see Shinra through rose-coloured glasses so as not to have to admit his own errors of judgement.

I'd like to see Zack, at first, being less nice and more selfish. More ruthlessly ambitious, more motivated by money, more toying with Aerith's affections, more shallow in his attachments generally, gregarious and superficial in his use of the word "friend". I'd have loved to see him experience some real growth in chracter as he realises the mistakes he's made, the true depths of his feeling for Aerith, his hopes for starting over and being a better man. And then not getting the chance because the kind of man he wants to be is the kind of man who would sacrifice himself for a comatose invalid who is, at best, an acquaintance.

I agree with everything Ody says.

 

[Ite]

Lot of overdue thanks in this old thread. Great ideas all.

 

[Odysseus]

I won't lie, one of the biggest reasons I consider CC to be the worst the compilation had to offer is because deep down I know it could have been so, so much more than it was. Dirge had no such expectations attached, it wasn't trying to be an integral story to the original, it was a cheap tie in and it owned it. Crisis Core played at being the true successor to the FF7 name and it squandered it at pretty much every turn. It's not a terrible game, but playing it just makes me disappointed.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I guess since my progress was 1. ACC, 2. CC, 3. OG, I worked my way up to the greatness instead of starting with it and then going downhill.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I guess since my progress was 1. ACC, 2. CC, 3. OG, I worked my way up to the greatness instead of starting with it and then going downhill.

Good thing you started with ACC, though -- had it been step 2 first, you'd never have made it to 3.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I mean... the order I more or less consumed the Compilation in was this... and I made it through just fine.

1. General Cultural Osmosis
2. BC/CC
3. OG
4. ACC
5. DoC

Although that probably explains why I've never really wanted CC to be so much rewritten from the ground up and more for it to just get a proper remaster with a console game's worth of space devoted to it.

It also definetly re-frames what the central conflict of the Compilation is. Which to me is less the Cloud vs Sephiroth conflict and more The Planet's Children vs Jenova's Children conflict. With the interesting outcome that only one of Jenova's Children actually wants to be "Jenova's Child" while the rest outright reject Jenova'a influence. Either by forcibly removing themselves from the conflict (Angeal) or running so hard in the opposite direction from Jenova that they wind up siding with the Planet instead (Genesis, Cloud, Kadaj). Sephrioth is the only one who embraces being a monster and he's really the only one causing major problems for the Planet.

 

[Clement Rage]

I don't think that's much of a fix so much as replacing the story, but I still don't think it works.

That version requires Angeal to be an unapologetic villain... and Zack's bestest friend and role model, which causes all kinds of problems.

If Zack makes excuses for him, that requires another character to the scapegoat. If Genesis isn't there, then you either have to make another character to fill that role or give it to Hollander, which raises more questions of how he can make Angeal do anything.

On the other hand, at some point Angeal-Genesis would lay out his reasoning to Zack, which goes like this "Shinra experimented on me before I was born, and as a result I am slowly and painfully rotting alive. I want to be cured, and if that's impossible at least make them pay for what they did to me."

Now instead of Genesis, it is Zack's best friend making the pitch. Why would he not agree and desert?

If he doesn't like the collateral damage of his methods, then that's a heroic motivation, but you don't want Zack to be heroic. So why would he stay with Shinra?

I've never actually played CC because I never owned a PSP. It seems like the best of the Compilation for me, followed by Dirge.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I don't know, I'd just like everyone in the game to demonstrate a little more intelligence and complexity of character.

Why does it require Angeal to be an unapologetic villain? I mean, he's not exactly a good guy as it is - but Zack thinks he's a good guy, they all think they're good guys. They don't actually know what a real hero is; they don't have any role models, any examplars. They start asking questions but they struggle to find answers. Plus, they're completely absorbed in the glamour and camaraderie of SOLDIER. Angeal and Genesis only turn their backs on Shinra when they see the extent to which it has damaged them personally. I would like to see Zack's moral awakening coming to him slowly and with difficulty, and making his sacrifice reluctantly, not because he's caught up in the fantasy of becoming a hero, but because it's just the right thing to do. And I'd prefer to see him dead in the rain afterwards, rather than flying up to heaven with Angeal.

It would be kind of a downer, though.

 

[cold_spirit]

Throughout the game the player is given big and small moments to relate with infantry of Shinra's Public Security Division. Whether it's the competition between SOLDIER or befriending Cloud, the grunts are treated as people. They want to protect the public and desire to become heroes, essentially making them no different from Zack.

So why do you kill hundreds of Shinra grunts in the ending? Why does Zack, and by extension the developers, not see the hypocrisy in this? How many grunts that day are 16-year-old kids just following orders, no different than the one Zack is trying to protect? The scenario has a juvenile understanding of the story it told up to that point.

The cherry on top is the cheesy pop song and portrayal of Zack ascending to heaven. "Would you say I became a hero?" No you weirdo.

Instead of reciting his motto he should've appealed to reason with the Shinra grunts. Asked them to reflect on what evil the company has ordered them to do. I think it'd be neat if some infantry spoke up in agreement and some dismissed Zack, believing the propaganda instead. Maybe a fight would break out and Zack gets shot by a stray bullet, leaving him with enough strength to escape but not enough to defend himself against the three infantry who hunt him down. That way they could still have all the DMW effects present which was the whole reason they implemented that intrusive mechanic.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Yes. It would work better if he was killed by a couple of grunts and a sergeant with a specific grudge against or dislike for SOLDIER, rather than a whole company of Shinra troopers.

 

[ForceStealer]

To be honest I always kind of assumed the ascending to heaven bit was just in Zack's head, not literally happening. But I guess it could represent seeing the other side of the annoyingly inconsistent people turning into Lifestream immediately after death. (Which I don't mind in combat, to be clear, just in cutscenes.)

 

[Makoeyes987]

Throughout the game the player is given big and small moments to relate with infantry of Shinra's Public Security Division. Whether it's the competition between SOLDIER or befriending Cloud, the grunts are treated as people. They want to protect the public and desire to become heroes, essentially making them no different from Zack.

So why do you kill hundreds of Shinra grunts in the ending? Why does Zack, and by extension the developers, not see the hypocrisy in this? How many grunts that day are 16-year-old kids just following orders, no different than the one Zack is trying to protect? The scenario has a juvenile understanding of the story it told up to that point.

There is no hypocrisy.

They're trying to kill you.

Considering Zack specifically makes it a point to not kill his opponents, even Wutai soldiers who dedicated their lives to his destruction, the fact Zack fights for his life at the bitter end makes perfect sense.

Considering it's the company he gave his life to, trying to end his and Cloud's life. There's zero hypocrisy killing in self defense the goons who are trying to take your freedom and life after already losing 4 years as is.

Zack has no fucking reason to justify wanting to be free. He's a human being, he's not a Test Sample. It's why Cissnei didn't need to be reasoned with, or whatever Turk he met on the way. They knew the order was wrong from the start and chose to let him live and they eventually defect. Because they're human. As if talking to a gauntlet of soldiers with guns drawn, backed up with attack helicopters would have made any difference. LOL they were there for one and one reason only.

Whoever they are is not Zack's problem. He's literally fighting for his life. He cannot be responsible for his life, Cloud's life and the lives of his would be executioners. That's some moralistic nonsense run amok. The entire perspective is skewed backwards. You blame Shinra for throwing red shirt MPs into a SOLDIER 1C meat grinder, not the SOLDIER who's a victim of human experimentation for 4 years fighting to save his veggie-brained best friend and fighting for his life to not die or become a black cloaked zombie.

 

[Clement Rage]

Why does it require Angeal to be an unapologetic villain?

Because Ody said so.

his mentor is a vindictive, jealous psycho who tries to burn the world to the ground before his life expires from degradation.

Also, copy technology. There's no deniability in Angeal creating monsters with his face as his henchpeople.

He needs henchpeople, for gameplay reasons. You could take out copy tech entirely and make them just SOLDIER deserters, but if you do that, Zack has no reason not to abandon Shinra and sign up. The comraderie, the glamour, the pride, those all came from Angeal.

The motivations don't make sense anymore if we try to play things this way, it doesn't work.

On the ending they're kinda between a rock and a hard place. If Zack punches out a 200 foot tall monster in the previous scene, you can't have him die to three infantry in the next scene.

But a giant massacre doesn't really fit the tone either. A sergeant with a specific grudge against SOLDIER doesn't fit the scene, because then the player dislikes that guy rather than blame his bosses.

Maybe a speech where they talk about the damage Angeal and Genesis have done, and they can't let another 1st go rogue? Or else they swarm him with waves of low level experiments and machines fro the early game, each wave letting the DMV breakdown thing happen, and then the trooper finish him? That would actually be consistent with the OG, which goes (battle offscreen) Zack comes back and gets shot running away.

 

[Odysseus]

If I'm continuing to dream up an alternate version of CC, I'd have it so the segment of the game where Zack and Cloud are on the run would be longer and more involved. You'd see Zack's physical abilities start to degrade as he gets worn down from his time roughing it. He couldn't go into towns for fear of Shinra capturing him. By the time he gets to Midgar he would be worn down enough mentally and physically that three grunts (or just a less ludicrously large group) would be enough to take him out.

Also I didn't mean for people to get hung up on "Angeal and Genisis as one character." I don't care that much about it, it was just an idea I had in the moment. I really just wish the game focused more on Zack's fantasy of being a hero clashing with the role he actually fills and the deranged people around him.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I really just wish the game focused more on Zack's fantasy of being a hero clashing with the role he actually fills and the deranged people around him.

CC already focuses on this plenty. The entire theme of CC is this in fact. Most of the interactions Zack has with Angeal and Genesis after they desert result in him realizing how much this thing called Jenova is causing them to go crazy. And how Shinra is the reason they even have issue with Jenova to begin with. Which culminates in the Nibelehim Reactor where he's seeing someone go crazy from being tied to Jenova (by Shina) for the 3rd time... only this time... Sephritoh goes crazy in a way Angeal and Genesis never went crazy. Neither Angeal and Genesis actually like being monsters. Sephrioth meanwhile all but admits he is one after seeing what was in the Nibelehim Manor and never really fights against the idea that he is one.

The thing is... there's really two different "definitions" the term "SOLDIER" is being applied to. One is the actual organization in Shinra, the other is the morals associated with it. And a lot of CC is about how those aren't the same thing and everyone is being forced to chose between them. Pretty early on, it's established that Shinra has a lot of shady stuff going on in it about SOLDIER... especially once you hit Modeoheim where "SOILDIER" and "Jenova Cells" are finally linked up for Zack. And after he kills Angeal, he has a lot more problems with SOLDIER, the organization. But he never lets go of the ideas he associates with it...

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I never got the impression that it was the Jenova in the SOLDIERs that was making them go crazy. As I understood it, the "craziness" was the reaction of their human psyche to their impossible dilemma. We could argue the definition of "crazy" till the cows come home, but neither Genesis nor Angeal ever struck me as certifiably insane. They were derailed, certainly; bitter, angry, vengeful, and, in Angeal's case, ultimately filled with despair. But they weren't mad.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Obviously those with FFVII hindsight and the perspective/knowledge of AVALANCHE know that "SOLDIER honor" was created as bullshit propaganda by the Shinra media to gin up support for their corporate ownership of the world. Sorta like this image here.


But the thing is, is the people believed this shit. SOLDIER protects the people, etc etc. That's how young people got hyped and hopeful to join up and make a difference. Angeal and Zack bought into it's message of good, like superheroes trying to protect the masses. They chose to live by it, even in the face of finding out their corporate overlords were lying and it was all space alien experiments. Yet, they made it their own. Zack's SOLDIER pride isn't the same thing as Heidegger's or Scarlet's. It may be fake in terms of its origins but it meant something to Zack, since he lived by it and died by it.

I never got the impression that it was the Jenova in the SOLDIERs that was making them go crazy. As I understood it, the "craziness" was the reaction of their human psyche to their impossible dilemma.

It was Jenova. The Remake especially makes this clear. Those who come into close proximity to it or learn of their connection to it, especially those who carry its cells, get messed up mentally. They change.

Sephiroth's mind fractured upon realizing the truth and being in proximity to it. Genesis learned the truth of his Jenova connection and lost it, killing his own parents and the village. Angeal flipped out on Zack, had an existential crisis, suffered brain fog, and eventually turned his destructive impulses inward via suicide by SOLDIER.

Jenova mentally corrodes those especially close to it. It can induce madness. Only those with especially strong wills and ego can resist it, and if they cannot, they either become vegetables or they crack.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

1. How did the Remake make that clear? What new information did it contain? As far as I can remember, the only people in the Remake with Jenova cells are Cloud and Sephiroth. Their mental issues, and the existence of a psychic link between them, have been well established ever since the OG. Even so, I wouldn't say that Cloud acts like a "crazy" person.
2. I'm talking about the impressions I formed when I played Crisis Core. That was over ten years ago. The information contained in the Remake, such as it is, wasn't available to me then. I'm saying that Angeal and Genesis did not act like crazy people.
3. I have lost interest in SE's retcons. As far as I'm concerned, the Remake is a whole new world.
4. In my original post, I said I would have been happier if Angeal and Zack had been more cynical, more selfish, and less naively obsessed with acting out storybook heroes.

 

[Makoeyes987]

1. How did the Remake make that clear? What new information did it contain? As far as I can remember, the only people in the Remake with Jenova cells are Cloud and Sephiroth. Their mental issues, and the existence of a psychic link between them, have been well established ever since the OG. Even so, I wouldn't say that Cloud acts like a "crazy" person.
2. I'm talking about the impressions I formed when I played Crisis Core. That was over ten years ago. The information contained in the Remake, such as it is, wasn't available to me then. I'm saying that Angeal and Genesis did not act like crazy people.
3. I have lost interest in SE's retcons. As far as I'm concerned, the Remake is a whole new world.
4. In my original post, I said I would have been happier if Angeal and Zack had been more cynical, more selfish, and less naively obsessed with acting out storybook heroes.

Those who are "Jenova's children" and learn of their connection to it, mentally break. Angeal, Genesis and Sephiroth all suffer a form of mental disruption and violent lash out upon this revelation. If that's not violent insanity and madness, I don't know what is. Especially when you take into consideration that Jenova is an entity bent on total destruction. Of course those instincts would bleed through into the hosts of its cells.

Furthermore Hojo himself has become unglued and obsessed with it thanks to his proximity to it. The Remake alludes to Jenova's mental disruption properties and then spell out here.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266663071876931586

Jenova messes with the minds of those near it. And it's not retcon. This is has been alluded to heavily throughout FFVII's history and just outright confirmed. Some people assumed Jenova was in control of Sephiroth for years, due to how stark his change was upon learning the truth of his birth in Nibelheim and misunderstanding it's plot. And that's because Sephiroth did change mentally. Those connected to Jenova sometimes do. Sephiroth may be in control of Jenova but it still changed him.

Its all connected because the same creators are basing the whole series on this lore. And Zack and Angeal are no more naive than 90% of the FFVII population who live in a Shinra world where they believe what the Corporation say because of misplaced trust. Heroism and beliefs aren't childish naivety, why else do heroes even exist and Superheroes are a popular genre to this day? The problem was they lived in a world where the information they were given was based on lies. If Zack and Angeal were truly naive, they wouldn't have begun to question their own existences.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

It has nothing to do with Remake TBH, Remake just confirms what we were already seeing. It has everything to do with the OG and Crisis Core and actually paying attention to what people are saying and how they react to things. Every time I look up the actual Crisis Core scripts (and Ultimania entries), I'm amazed at how well it fits with the OG and and lines up with everything else we know from the OG about Sephrioth and Jenova.

Zack is far from stupid. He knows Angeal and Genesis aren't acting how they normally when they desert. And that it's got... something to do with that massive wing they can now manifest. Both of them found something out that... completely reoriented their priorities about things Zack knows was important to them. It can't not be a small issue. And then he finds out in Modeoheim that it has something to do with Jenova Cells. Which he... actually doesn't think Hollander is lying about. There's good reasons he is slowly freaking out in Nibeleheim about Jenova... and it's because he's seen what happens when she is brought up twice already...

Sephrioth isn't stupid either. He's just torn between wanting to help his friends when he knows something bad happened to them that somehow set them against Shinra. Which... he knows is suicide. He grew up in Shinra. And sometimes... you really don't want to know what is happening in Shinra. And yet Angeal and Genesis found something out. And... he kinda turns a blind eye to whatever that is. It frankly amazes me that Sephrioth the last person to find out Jenova was involved in Project Sephrioth while everyone else knows more about it in some way than he does. Just... how did that happen???

The two places this all comes together is at Modeoheim and Nibelheim. They are pretty much mirrors of each other for Project G and Project S. Both involve the... products... of the Projects learning about the Projects and how they were produced from the projects. And that the Projects involved Jenova (via Hollander and the Nibelehim Manor). And that information really gives all of them a mental crisis about what they are... if they're something of Jenova's ultimately or not. Both the "products" of Project G choose to not be "of Jenova". One of them would rather die, the other wants to get the Jenova problem fixed (and doesn't mind asking the Planet to do so). The product of Project S is... almost enthusiastic about finally getting the reason they don't feel like they are like everyone else validated. And all but runs into Jenova's waiting arms of wanting to take it out on the Planet.

Ironically, DoC's Ultimania straight-out confirms something was going on with Jenova and Seprhoith at Nibelehim on its timeline of the Compilation... and that came out before CC...

5 Years Ago
Sephiroth, Zack, and Cloud and dispatched to Nibelehim's mako reactor.

After finding reference materials from the Jenova Project inside Shinra Manor, Sephrioth becomes convinced he is an Ancient. Coming into contact with Jenova awakens something within him, and with Jenova's head in his possession, he razes Nibelehim to the ground. Soon after, Cloud casts Sephrioth into the LIfestream.

Hojo experiment on Cloud and the other survivors of Nibelehim to produce clones of Sephiroth that will prove his theories about Jenova and Reunion.

It's probably also significant that... Jenova's powers run on people's subconscious desires/feelings/thoughts/needs. And the only way to really "block" Jenova's influence is to have a really strong will of your own and have a solid understanding of who you are as a person. So fixating on the idea of becoming a monster (weather you want to be one or not) is... probably not a great thing to do if you've got Jenova Cells in you. More so if you've got Jenova's DNA modifying aspects. Which are the aspects that lead to... cellular degradation when those effects go off. And the cellular degradation is linked to... mental inhibitions becoming... practically non-existent. Which explains a lot about why Angeal and Genesis' reasoning starts going crazy in the first place...

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I don't disagree with any of that. I just disagree with the use of the word "crazy" to describe them, or that their reactions to learning the very disturbing truths about their own origins and Shinra are outside the normal range of reactions any human being with superpowers might display, whether they had Jenova in them or not.

I mean, obviously the fact that they have Jenova DNA in them is what enables their superpowers, the manifestation of the wing etc..., but I never got the impression that their reaction to discovering all this was controlled or directed by Jenova, or that she took possession of their minds, sent them mad, and drove them to do things that were out of character for them. If that is indeed what the creators intended us to take away from Crisis Core, then you're obviously a more observant player than I am.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well adjusted people don't respond to finding out harsh truths about their lives by burning down where they live, turning their back on all they know and murdering their parents. All before dedicating themselves to a systematic campaign of destruction and vengeance.

No one except extremely disturbed and destructive types of people. Like Sephiroth. Or Kadaj. Or Genesis. The fact that every character that inherits Jenova's cells:

1.) Responds to the "truth" of their birth by murderously lashing out at their caregivers.

2.) Destroying their surroundings.

3.) Dedicating themselves to a cause of destruction.

4.) Seeking out Jenova and becoming whole through it.

5.) Spouting a wing.

Is a pretty glaring commonality that unites all of them. Them being experiments of the Jenova Project, having similar reactions to simliar circumstances....Sephiroth, Genesis and Angeal reflect something about their Jenova status and how it messes with people's minds. However, Angeal stops himself and resists the most destructive of urges because he's a good person, but he still ends up violently turning those urges inward because he knows he's becoming a monster.

Jenova isn't as mindless or dormant as it appears. The novella about Aerith's childhood shows that, since it was calling for Reunion even before Sephiroth instructed it to. And SOLDIERs who survive the procedure with mako and jenova cells can still end up becoming Sephiroth Copies, because they can eat away at someone's mind over time. It takes a strong will to not only survive that procedure but resist the effects Jenova can have over you just in general.

Ironically, DoC's Ultimania straight-out confirms something was going on with Jenova and Seprhoith at Nibelehim on its timeline of the Compilation... and that came out before CC...

That's a damn good point, I forgot about that. Yeah, it's been hinted at for awhile, the Remake just confirms it outright. Those who come into contact with Jenova get effected. Their minds get changed. Especially if they carry it's cells. They've been hinting at it for awhile.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

It's... kind of all over Crisis Core from the very beginning of Chapter 2 that Sephrioth and Zack don't think what Genesis and Angeal are doing is "normal" for either of them. The way the two of them are acting throws both Sephrioth and Zack off-balance and that's part of why they both hold on so long to the idea that Genesis and Angeal could come back to Shinra.

In fact, you could go so far as to say that what starts the bonding process between Zack and Sephiroth is that they both don't want to kill Angeal and Genesis but instead want to figure out what is going wrong with them so they can fix it. Angeal making Zack kill him at the end of Chapter 6 is... kinda where things change... for Sephrioth at least. Zack never really lets go of that hope that he can help both of them get over whatever is wrong with them.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

OK, sure. All I'm saying is that it didn't strike me, while playing Crisis Core, that I was supposed to think Angeal and Genesis had "gone crazy" and that Jenova was responsible for this. It never struck me either that Sephiroth and Zack thought Angeal and Genesis were acting weird because they'd lost their minds. Rather, I gained the impression that Sephiroth and Zack believed Angeal and Genesis had a reason for what they were doing, and that their apparently crazy actions would be explained once the secrets they were hiding were out in the open. Sephiroth and Zack wanted to know why their friends/mentor were doing these things, so that they could help them.

I'd just like to point out that Lazard responds to being infected with Jenova by giving up his thoughts of revenge and becoming a better person. And yes, I'm aware that's the Angeal in him. Clearly the Angeal is stronger than the Jenova.

I think we are talking at cross-purposes here.

 

[Clement Rage]

SOLDIER actually does do a lot of monster hunting to protect the citizens, it's not like their heroism is a complete illusion

If I'm continuing to dream up an alternate version of CC, I'd have it so the segment of the game where Zack and Cloud are on the run would be longer and more involved. You'd see Zack's physical abilities start to degrade as he gets worn down from his time roughing it. He couldn't go into towns for fear of Shinra capturing him. By the time he gets to Midgar he would be worn down enough mentally and physically that three grunts (ora less ludicrously large group) would be enough to take him out.

How would that work in gameplay and story terms? That's not snark, genuinely, how would you do that without becoming a boring slog or screwing up the pacing? Plotwise, something of note has to happen, or else it's just empty time.

Angeal and Genesis grew wings. It's not like they can just go back to work as though nothing happened. They have no choice but to desert, because the other best case scenario is being dissected by Hojo.

Genesis finds out that his entire hometown is Shinra Employees, that it was a zoo enclosure specifically built to contain him. He didn't just burn down his home for no reason.

They want to find out more about what happened, and since Hojo is out, Hollander is their best bet. Sadly, he's not up to the task. Angeal very briefly aligns with Genesis, then splits from him once they start making monsters from his cells.

1.) Responds to the "truth" of their birth by murderously lashing out at their caregivers.

2.) Destroying their surroundings.

3.) Dedicating themselves to a cause of destruction.

4.) Seeking out Jenova and becoming whole through it.

5.) Spouting a wing.

Angeal only did number 5. Angeal's influence actually was a positive influence on Lazard. He didn't try to kill himself for no reason, Hollander is making monsters from his cells and he doesn't want that to continue. He fuses with Hollander's lab specimens so Hollander (and Shinra) no longer has any Angeal Cells to make monsters with (which is why Hollander is so upset Angeal is destroying all his samples.)

Genesis' goal is not random destruction, he's trying to get healed. He tries to kill Hojo on Hollander's Orders, but changes his mind when Hojo says 'LOL, you think Hollander can help you?' You sure killing me is a good idea?'