Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
It's not like they sat down and signed a contract to that effect.
The way things are going perhaps that should be the answer. SE has all three sit down and sign a contract. Divide everything evenly.
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
The way things are going perhaps that should be the answer. SE has all three sit down and sign a contract. Divide everything evenly.
BlankBeat
Pro Adventurer
For years, Ryu & others have tried to dismiss Cloud's continued feelings for Aerith by saying he also has continued feelings for Zack.It's not like they sat down and signed a contract to that effect.
But the clear distinction is that only Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa are in the officially established love triangle.
The Zack counterpoint is irrelevant. Zack is being used as a red herring.
Tifa isn't jealous of Cloud's continued feelings for Zack. Why? Because Zack isn't Tifa’s "love rival" like Aerith is.
Remember: Cloud only "wavers" between Aerith & Tifa. Cloud never "wavers" to Zack.
Tifa is jealous of Cloud's continued wavering for her "love rival" Aerith.
Until Ryu is in an officially established love triangle and starts to waver towards his wife's "love rival," his example is irrelevant.
And the reason I'm so adamant about this is because we have heard FOR YEARS the whole... "Well, Cloud has continued feelings for Zack, too!!" nonsense.
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Master Bates
Do you enjoy your life?
- AKA
- Mr. Koiwai
*tries to paint a picture in my head*
ROFL How? How are we gonna make something like this official?
Tell me, please.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
Now that I think about it, maybe SE will add that dynamic in the later half of the Remake project. I think that would create an interesting back and forth with the gang and the Turks.
It would also give Cloud a wake up call, that his childhood friend doesn't necessary mean that she will be with him. Not saying that Cloud couldn't be with Aerith either. It is an interesting focus point and storyline dynamic.
Lestat
He/him
- AKA
- Ergo, V
Skill
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
This was kind of my point with the contract observation. That isn't how affections and jealousies and whatnot get estsblished.
Okay, but we're not in the past any longer. As I've been trying to tell everyone in here, what we choose to say or do today is on us. It's a choice that we make today, not something put on us years ago.
(By the way, this is the remake thread, and you're citing material about the original game. That goes in a different thread.)
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
About the whole Zack influence thing. That is one thing I can't get behind. That always bothered me because I felt that Cloud is himself and he has the free will to fall in love with whomever he wants. Whether it be with Tifa or Aerith or Barrett for that matter. I believe through the course of natural events that Cloud does develop feelings for Aerith.
However, I do feel that there are a couple of instances in the game where Aerith is reminded of Zack through Cloud. She even says so through dialog.
Master Bates
Do you enjoy your life?
- AKA
- Mr. Koiwai
I considered making a photoshop for Ryu's triangle and then present the diagram to TLS in a referendum to make it official.
But I remembered my photoshop skills are more photoshop kills so I abandoned the idea right away.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
(this might be OT) If we are to go by where we left off in the remake I think the first town should be Kalm if I remember correctly. I think there will be a lot of character development. Especially between Cloud and Tifa.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this where we are suppose to find out about the Nibelheim incident for the first time. There are going to be some really sweet moments between them two.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this where we are suppose to find out about the Nibelheim incident for the first time. There are going to be some really sweet moments between them two.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Or, more likely, awkward. XD
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
I have a feeling we'll get more subtle hints of Rude caring for Tifa
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
but that doesn't push my narrative.
Honestly yeah, Cloud is so cringy. Kinda like this entire thread to be honest.
billy22
Pro Adventurer
I lost even more catching up to this waste. Several pages nitpicking about wall street dresses and dances, and then nitpicking the nitpicking. Fucking hell
No, it's because he's a dude and Cloud's straight.
I think...
We won't get that lucky.No, they must put an end to this LTD conclusively so that my ghost will not haunt the planet once I'm finally in my grave. I don't care what it is, just end this so I can rest in peace.
The optimistic side of me hopes it went like this:
Nomura: "You know, this twitter and tumbler the kids these days are using is telling me romance in FFVII is a big deal. We should remake it with even more romantic angst. That's what they want. And maybe- and I'm not sure about this part yet- at the end of the decade in the final game, we can officially close the love triangle. What do you guys think?"
Nojima & Kitase: "Hmm...Nomura-san, we aren't sure...."
Nomura: "Also I don't want to have to keep answering these fucking stupid LTD questions when I retire."
Nojima & Kitase: "YES! LETS DO IT NOW!"
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
@BlankBeat I think people are mainly confused as to what your overall point of your posts are. Everyone here acknowledges that Cloud has feelings for both girls, so I am not sure what you're responding to other than to bemoan past toxicity in this thread. Not to say that's unwarranted, but that was pointed a few pages ago and a lot of people apologized and agreed to move on.
For the record - I too was a contributor to that, and apologize and would rather move on
It's been years now - surely some petty arguments about shipping isn't still your primary way of engaging in what is now pretty large franchise?
For the record - I too was a contributor to that, and apologize and would rather move on
It's been years now - surely some petty arguments about shipping isn't still your primary way of engaging in what is now pretty large franchise?
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
At that point Nojima will be like and I quote from Cloud "I need my money that you owe me."
I honestly would love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation for sure. I definitely don't envy any of them. Especially dealing the LTD portion of the game.
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
I have a feeling we'll get more subtle hints of Rude caring for Tifa
I hope not. Tifa must not be taken away from Cloud by a handsome bald guy that is way more cooler than him.
BlankBeat
Pro Adventurer
I honestly don't know how much clearer I can be:@BlankBeat I think people are mainly confused as to what your overall point of your posts are. Everyone here acknowledges that Cloud has feelings for both girls, so I am not sure what you're responding to other than to bemoan past toxicity in this thread. Not to say that's unwarranted, but that was pointed a few pages ago and a lot of people apologized and agreed to move on.
For the record - I too was a contributor to that, and apologize and would rather move on
It's been years now - surely some petty arguments about shipping isn't still your primary way of engaging in what is now pretty large franchise?
Ryu, and others, have spent YEARS saying Cloud's continued feelings for Aerith aren't noteworthy because Cloud also has continued feelings for Zack.
But the difference is that Zack isn't in the love triangle. Zack isn't Tifa's "love rival." Cloud never "wavers" to Zack.
Ryu's example is apples & oranges when compared to Tifa's jealousy over Aerith.
I won't let this common misconception go unchecked. It has been around for years and needs to officially be debunked.
After years of spreading misinformation, Ryu should finally acknowledge his example isn't valid.
Yet here he is... spewing the same tired nonsense.
If you truly want all of us to move forward (like Aerith does in regards to Zack), hold him accountable for making a false comparison.
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Enthralled
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- a dude
His continued feelings are so not noteworthy they get mentioned in Dirge of Cerberus' material despite actually having no relevance to that game.
I dunno what this history thing you guys have is, but if you really did spend years downplaying a very obvious tragic arc about two very important characters because you favor one other important character then that is pretty lame. Especially since, let's be honest, it probably required a very arcane rationale to pull off and convince yourselves of.
And yes, Zack is a bad counterpoint. He almost certainly still misses his friend Zack, just as he misses Aerith who never had a very platonic relationship with him at all. Saying otherwise to me is just petty. It's without basis and treats Cloud like he's not an empathetic person for no real improvement to the story. It isn't necessary for character growth and in fact treats Cloud's relationships to the deceased as no longer consequential.
I dunno what this history thing you guys have is, but if you really did spend years downplaying a very obvious tragic arc about two very important characters because you favor one other important character then that is pretty lame. Especially since, let's be honest, it probably required a very arcane rationale to pull off and convince yourselves of.
And yes, Zack is a bad counterpoint. He almost certainly still misses his friend Zack, just as he misses Aerith who never had a very platonic relationship with him at all. Saying otherwise to me is just petty. It's without basis and treats Cloud like he's not an empathetic person for no real improvement to the story. It isn't necessary for character growth and in fact treats Cloud's relationships to the deceased as no longer consequential.
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Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
I got that, and don't misunderstand here, I am not attacking you. However the thing is this works both ways. You have to take some to get some. It seems in the threads that you are so determined that it is my way or the highway. At least that is what I am taking from your posts onto this thread. If that is not the case I do apologize but you have to also be able to accept the other peoples point of view in the thread as well. Whether it is canon or not. That is the whole reason this thread exists. So we can talk through our differences.
Edited to add, this includes myself. I have made my peace with this.
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
I mean, fair enough... I guess? I was never really a fan of Ryu's arguments either but why's it gotta be so pointed and personal you know?
You're acting like he's casually going around advising people to inject detergent or something. It's not that big of a deal.
You're acting like he's casually going around advising people to inject detergent or something. It's not that big of a deal.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Cloud is clueless haha. He wouldn't know what to do anyway:-p
Graymouse
Pro Adventurer
Sad, and true. I wouldn't think Tifa would do that to Cloud, especially in his state of mind at the moment. I mean the entire reason she (pushed/forced) Cloud into Avalanche was to keep an eye on him because she knows that some things are not right with him.
Mako, is some serious drugs man! Especially for Cloud who has been swimming in it for 5 plus years!
Lets be honest here, Cloud's state of mind is really messed up and is very easily influenced. He is a tragic character. Luckly for him he has Tifa, Aerith, and Barrett and later the entire gang to help keep him grounded.
I think if Shinra really played their cards right and captured Cloud, and have him work for Shinra again. Avalanche, would not have a chance against Cloud at all. Shinra would easily won the day. I wonder why the Devs never did that angle....
Enthralled
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- a dude
Aerith still does the bulk of the softening. Saying "everyone" when we have scenes which only exist to show how Cloud stops being a dope proper around her is ducking the issue by trying not to commit. But the fact that you choose to highlight a minor crone to relate it back to Tifa... that's so insubstantial. Marle mostly is there to say "this Cloud is no good" early on so we get the picture.
Tifa is not jealous of Cloud's rapport with Aerith like your fiance is with your friend. Your fiance just wishes she could be as fun for you. Tifa is actually worried Cloud likes Aerith more than as a friend or comrade. Why do they include this if it's trivial? Why does it continue into AC?
If it's just Tifa misunderstanding, which we know it or at least agree it isn't, why do they drag it out for that long? Why doesn't Cloud just shoot it down there and that be the end of it? Usually when one character mistakenly thinks another character likes someone else that is used to create tension among the characters, but here Aerith and Tifa are very friendly so that can't be it. The drama around these relationships has always been Aerith tragically dying by Sephiroth's hand and Tifa struggling to admit her feelings or feeling she's losing Cloud, not misdirected suspicion and animosity.
This is pretty transparent to me. Once the subject becomes about Cloud and Aerith's dynamic we can no longer assume scenes and character dynamics deliberately put in the game mean anything and that's it's all just too ambiguous (when it isn't at all). But once we have an opaque idea that Aerith wants Cloud to go after Tifa instead of her, and the Ultimania strongly suggests this is because Aerith suspects she is not long for this world, that becomes the final word and that no dramatic developments will happen later.
half my posts are about how you guys treat things as obvious givens except when it comes to Cloud and Aerith. Just pointing that out.