SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

LunarTarotGirl

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Lunarae
There are several things said. Nojima also basically says (paraphrase )"Nothing wrong with a love song and it does have elements of that" but that he also intended it to not be about just one person alone and made the lyrics broad (end paraphrase) he is not contradicting himself. He is saying it's not meant to be about just one person or relationship but to include all of them that are important for her. He said himself there are aspects of a love song but that's just not the whole purpose. It's about her.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
CA had the love song, and CT had the kiss. Nah, for me it would be like coming out and agreeing the takes that the date was about Aerith, Zack, Cloud and Tifa were correct.

Uematsu even said he hoped it was a love song that became a love song standard a standard for all love songs. Well I only go by what I am told, and officially they were rolling with it's a love song for a while. So now they go with it's not.

It was a big non optional moment. The side quests, date, etc, anything optional doesn't hold as much weight in debate.
To be fair, even without the song. Cloud and Aerith do have that moment in Chapter 14 in the “inter-space” or whatever it’s called. Lifestream White?
 
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CldS7

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Luffy76
CA had the love song, and CT had the kiss. Nah, for me it would be like coming out and agreeing the takes that the date was about Aerith, Zack, Cloud and Tifa were correct.

Uematsu even said he hoped it was a love song that became a love song standard a standard for all love songs. Well I only go by what I am told, and officially they were rolling with it's a love song for a while. So now they go with it's not.

It was a big non optional moment. The side quests, date, etc, anything optional doesn't hold as much weight in debate.

You have to be capping??? Saying the song is about Aeriths bonds and relationships is the same as saying Cloud asked about Zack in both dates cause he’s jealous and so he gave a jealous kiss???

It literally still can mean Aeriths love for Cloud. But she can love everyone else as well

How is that the same as saying Cloud was jealous of Zack. Pls be serious

 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
CA had the love song, and CT had the kiss. Nah, for me it would be like coming out and agreeing the takes that the date was about Aerith, Zack, Cloud and Tifa were correct.

Uematsu even said he hoped it was a love song that became a love song standard a standard for all love songs. Well I only go by what I am told, and officially they were rolling with it's a love song for a while. So now they go with it's not.

It was a big non optional moment. The side quests, date, etc, anything optional doesn't hold as much weight in debate.
But it IS a love song. It's a love song for ALL the people Aerith loves, not just one.
 

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
Your assumption was correct. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

My reasoning for that was because there was a comment a couple of scores back in the thread that didn't want anything brought from Twitter because it was felt that it was being brought up to mock and be condescending towards a ship, which was never the case it was just used to strengthen the argument against a particular point that was being misunderstood.

I meant no harm and no foul and I apologize.

No worries! :) And again, I personally don't see a problem when bring things from there when it's relevant/interesting since twitter is still the main source for ffvii infos, after all. We just need to be more mindful about what we are bringing from there, that's all.
 

CldS7

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Luffy76
Clds7 keep your personal attacks out of the thread, and to yourself. Nobody wants your mocking.

I’m not mocking anything

I’m asking why you think saying the song is Aerith singing about her love for everyone INCLUDING cloud

Is the same thing as saying Cloud was jealous of Zack that’s why he brings him up in dates…..

And pls @ me or quote me if you’re speaking to me….
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Why do they even want a Romeo x Juliet-esque story? Might be in the minority on this, but it's a terrible love story :mon:
To be fair, it’s a tragedy not a romance. And it’s actually more about the feud between their two families than it is about them.

I think people nowadays regard it as a star-crossed love but I don’t think Shakespeare’s message was about that really.

Dunno why I wanted to defend Romeo and Juliet but here we are.
 

Ruri

Pro Adventurer
You cannot have NPTK just about Cloud when Aerith has a history and a story before the two weeks she met and said goodbye to Cloud. Take off the pink glasses for a second and actually give Aerith some room to be a character that doesn't revolve around planet Cloud. It's not complex and it isn't an attack on their relationship. It's really simple. I think the problem lies with the people who grew overly attached to giving their own meaning to an obscure song and are now reacting in the wrong direction in light of the recent news.

Also @Maidenofwar , this isn't aimed only at you, mostly for the fandom you represent too. You cannot claim to have NPTK taken away, when Nojima just clarified it was never Cloud and Aerith's to begin with.
 

Empyrea

Pro Adventurer
To be fair, it’s a tragedy not a romance. And it’s actually more about the feud between their two families than it is about them
I also think it's a tragedy (and a bit of a cautionary tale).

I think people nowadays regard it as a star-crossed love but I don’t think Shakespeare’s message was about that really.
I hope not (on Shakespeare's message), 'cause it's the interpretation that it's a romance that I find terrible as a story xP
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I also think it's a tragedy (and a bit of a cautionary tale).


I hope not, 'cause it's the interpretation that it's a love story that I find terrible as a story xP
I think the point of the story is actually that warring factions can fail to see what is truly important, which is the people that exist within them, and this divide will only create a vicious cycle of tragedy.
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
Why do they even want a Romeo x Juliet-esque story? Might be in the minority on this, but it's a terrible love story :mon:
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Zerith is more star-crossed lovers.
And I see Tseng has similar role to Lawrence here; to unite the two with letter but failed.
The difference is:
  • one committing suicide so they dont reunite in heaven as they want since committing suicide is a sin
  • one being brutally murdered and rewarded to reunite
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
Uematsu even said he hoped it was a love song that became a love song standard a standard for all love songs. Well I only go by what I am told, and officially they were rolling with it's a love song for a while. So now they go with it's not.

It was a big non optional moment. The side quests, date, etc, anything optional doesn't hold as much weight in debate.
Sorry, going back to this because I didn't respond to the whole message but I don't get why you need a big non optional moment for debate, anyway. Like what would this love song even be a direct parallel to for the Tifa camp? The almost-kiss in Gongaga? I wouldn't say those two are on equal footing because you can't change anything in the Gongaga scene the way you can with Aerith's performance.

The song was never a good thing to use for debate because Aerith can sing it while Cloud holds hands with Tifa like a couple which undermines the whole idea that she's singing it for him, in my opinion, cause that makes him look like a callous asshole.

Uematsu didn't write the song, so his opinion on it should've been taken with a grain of salt from the start. Art is interpretive, that's why so many fans had different takes on the song. I'm sorry that your interpretation got debunked, but overall it's a win for Aerith.
 
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liuliuliu

Pro Adventurer
the argument is getting weird here. Why do you think it is a bad thing for the song to be about everyone Aerith loves? She is a character but she has a live before she meets Cloud. It is not even about Zack, it is also about her mother and Elmyra. Both of them she didn’t get a chance to say goodbye.
It feels like CAs only want Aerith to have and only have a love life, where everything she does resolves around her feelings for Cloud, but the author says “yah, she has a live that is not resolved around romance”
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
But it IS a love song. It's a love song for ALL the people Aerith loves, not just one.
I think my concern here is just "together evermore" and "our place" "our street" since it doesnt exist in JP lyrics.... then the rest of EN lyrics should be fine and less romantic. The three phrase is the most misleading one. JP mention city, place, street without "our". And "together evermore" is like the connotation of "suki" Tifa describe of her feelings for Cloud in TOTP novel.
 

CldS7

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Luffy76
the argument is getting weird here. Why do you think it is a bad thing for the song to be about everyone Aerith loves? She is a character but she has a live before she meets Cloud. It is not even about Zack, it is also about her mother and Elmyra. Both of them she didn’t get a chance to say goodbye.
It feels like CAs only want Aerith to have and only have a love life, where everything she does resolves around her feelings for Cloud, but the author says “yah, she has a live that is not resolved around romance”

It annoys me cause this is the exact same reason why they hate Tifa. “Why is her character so tied to Cloud!!! Why doesn’t she have anything else”

Now they’re getting mad at this??? Makes it make sense
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
I think my concern here is just "together evermore" and "our place" "our street" since it doesnt exist in JP lyrics.... then the rest of EN lyrics should be fine and less romantic. The three phrase is the most misleading one. JP mention city, place, street without "our". And "together evermore" is like the connotation of "suki" Tifa describe of her feelings for Cloud in TOTP novel.
Yeah, that's fair! I've heard in JP the song has way less romantic connotations, which makes perfect sense with what Nojima said in this interview. I think fans just need to reconcile with the fact that not all relationships are inherently romantic in nature. Cloud's English voice actor already tried to temper fan expectations by saying not all Clouds relationships need to be sexualized, but it seems people need to hear it for Aerith as well.

I'll never tell anyone to stop shipping their preferred couple, but sometimes you just gotta take the story at face value and then happily munch on fanon content instead.
 

Hix

Pro Adventurer
There are several things said. Nojima also basically says (paraphrase )"Nothing wrong with a love song and it does have elements of that" but that he also intended it to not be about just one person alone and made the lyrics broad (end paraphrase) he is not contradicting himself. He is saying it's not meant to be about just one person or relationship but to include all of them that are important for her. He said himself there are aspects of a love song but that's just not the whole purpose. It's about her.

Yeah, agreed with this. NPTK has elements of a love song because that's definitely been part of her life. The many months she spent with Zack and the years thereafter in which those feelings never dulled - to speak nothing of the influence he had and has in her life in other ways - are a large part of her life. But just a part.

So too, her relationship with Cloud. Confusion, uncertainty, do I like like him and do I even really know him, these are all things that are very much there in her present while singing. Nevertheless, it's a few days removed from her never even knowing he existed and a few days shy of her role in his life largely coming to a conclusion. It's important, if undefined, but just a part of what makes Aerith, Aerith.

One interesting thing to note is that, never mind how we interpret NPTK, it's clear her friends do not see it as a love song. Cloud makes no effort toward reciprocation, it doesn't ruffle Tifa's feathers in the slightest and the usual Yuffie teasing/banter is not present. They took it earnestly, at face value, as a song about Aerith's 21 years of life - just as Nojima had wanted.

And herein lies the rub, Aerith is an incredibly nuanced character with such a massive story that, were one to reduce it merely to circling those two short, Sephiroth-dominated, weeks with Cloud, one does an incredible disservice to her character. Aye, she's the last of the cetra, that alone is significant. She carries not one but two different ways of saving the entire world from destruction and the genes of her dead people. But underneath that is a complex and ultimately lonely person.

It can't be ignored that she has spent years waiting for her love to return to her as he promised, just as Elmyra waited for her own love to return each day when he never did. Compared to the two weeks of the events of the game, that 4 years of writing letters, wearing pink, continually asking about and hoping for Zack are a much more significant part of her story. So too her 15 years spent with Elmyra, comforts to each other in times when they needed it (and they certainly needed it a lot) are massive parts of her story, far far too big to be ignored.

This cannot be said of Tifa. I'm not trying to insult her by any means, but she was from early on wanting to be with Cloud as much as he with her. Her story is built on the foundations of being with Cloud, supporting him through his most difficult times and ultimately healing him. To project that role onto Aerith is to deny Tifa her own purpose in the story and, similarly, relegate all the importance that Aerith has as well. An assassination on all counts.

I hope all sides can learn a lesson from this. Clotis need to lay off the Aerith bashing. She's a deep, nuanced and beautiful character who was never a threat to them to begin with. Cleriths need to appreciate the game and Aerith for who and what they are, rather than what they want them to be. Ship who you like, by all means, but Nojima and Co deserve having their work and intended desire for it respected. I'll try harder to do this also.
 
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