SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
No, no I do get that. I'm just defending the play's intention. I agree with you there's nothing particularly Romeo & Juliet about it. If nothing else, FFXV is absolutely going for the tragic star-crossed lovers angle and it ends with them actually being reunited in death, not smiling at your two dead friends who are also in love walking into the afterlife together while you stay to live out your life with your family.
It's funny, as I have reason to suspect that even the ending you get in the base version of the game isn't them reuniting in death but rather a depiction from the "true" ending depicted in the novel. And before that novel I figured it actually was them being dead/ new Astrals together.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
I want Zack/Aerith to be acknowledge as one of star-cross lovers story especially in the video game history. Everytime I tried to edit Wiki, the admin always revert it back and put Cloud/Aerith
I couldn't agree more. Strange that the Admins keep changing your edits. I think that once the 3rd game is released Z/A will be more appreciated.
 

CldS7

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Luffy76
This is not a war on ships and never been about ships, it’s a war on the literal narrative and plot of the game. That’s why this discourse has continued for nearly 30 years.

It’s always been a war on narrative and trying to change the entire biggest reveal of the entire game

its so critical to the narrative that to me even acknowledging the LTD dynamic means you have not played the 2nd disk or you refuse to even acknowledge anything that happens

This is literally the most critical part of FF7

Cloud acknowledging his faults and that he could never become something he was not (Soldier), but it never mattered to Tifa and he always enough for her. By saving him like this he was able to beat Sephiroth and then save the world. To contrast Sephiroth who could not acknowledge the revelations of what he found in Nibelheim and went off the deep end.

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Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
Regarding NPTK, based on the EN lyrics alone, I always assumed (wrongly) that it was about Zack/Cloud, even though many people have pointed out before that the song in JP had a much broader meaning. Personally, as beautiful as the song is and how magical the whole scene was, it turned out not to be very relevant in the end for the story, as it didn't add any new information (if it was about Aerith's feelings for Cloud, we already knew that) nor was it brought up as a plot point afterward. So, I was pretty okay to let CA fans have this. The same thing goes for the whole Hollow discussion in Remake, tbh lol.

That said, I do feel that knowing for a fact that this song is about Aerith's feelings for everyone she holds dear does make the scene even better. I know this might sound condescending coming from a CT, but truly, this is supposed to be Aerith's game! Her farewell to everyone and everything she holds dear... Having that song focus on this rather than just one person is so much better for her character and makes the whole scene much more heartbreaking. Especially because honestly, as much as Cloud and Aerith are dear to one another, when it comes to romance, they didn't really have that many meaningful moments in this game to justify her singing a love/farewell song on a stage all about him.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Regarding NPTK, based on the EN lyrics alone, I always assumed (wrongly) that it was about Zack/Cloud, even though many people have pointed out before that the song in JP had a much broader meaning. Personally, as beautiful as the song is and how magical the whole scene was, it turned out not to be very relevant in the end for the story, as it didn't add any new information (if it was about Aerith's feelings for Cloud, we already knew that) nor was it brought up as a plot point afterward. So, I was pretty okay to let CA fans have this. The same thing goes for the whole Hollow discussion in Remake, tbh lol.

That said, I do feel that knowing for a fact that this song is about Aerith's feelings for everyone she holds dear does make the scene even better. I know this might sound condescending coming from a CT, but truly, this is supposed to be Aerith's game! Her farewell to everyone and everything she holds dear... Having that song focus on this rather than just one person is so much better for her character and makes the whole scene much more heartbreaking. Especially because honestly, as much as Cloud and Aerith are dear to one another, when it comes to romance, they didn't really have that many meaningful moments in this game to justify her singing a love/farewell song on a stage all about him.
I never liked this narrative of Aerith world falling apart and hyper focusing on Cloud. I don't know, I may be biased. But it doesn't make too much sense. Like we see when we meet her (be it Zack or Cloud) she's kinda the neighborhood idol. Everybody love her and she loves and cares for everybody in return. Midgar is her home and she's kinda ok with the idea to stay there and never seek what's behind the wall. In the end, she has to flee the city and the call of adventure takes over, like her birth mom promised her.

We see during the game she thinks about Midgar or her mom waiting for her. That's Aerith for me. That song makes much more sense as a love letter to her "family" than just a guy she doesn't really know (and won't know in her mortal life) and who's kinda on the fence with her new best girlfriend.
 

CldS7

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Luffy76
I never liked this narrative of Aerith world falling apart and hyper focusing on Cloud. I don't know, I may be biased. But it doesn't make too much sense. Like we see when we meet her (be it Zack or Cloud) she's kinda the neighborhood idol. Everybody love her and she loves and cares for everybody in return. Midgar is her home and she's kinda ok with the idea to stay there and never seek what's behind the wall. In the end, she has to flee the city and the call of adventure takes over, like her birth mom promised her.

We see during the game she thinks about Midgar or her mom waiting for her. That's Aerith for me. That song makes much more sense as a love letter to her "family" than just a guy she doesn't really know (and won't know in her mortal life) and who's kinda on the fence with her new best girlfriend.

I hate the narrative cause it literally take away from Tifas arc in the same game

It’s like subconsciously they want to take everything important Tifa has

Their whole argument is literally the point of Mideal and Tifa leaving the crew
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
This is just a reaaaally bad joke but how long until some people shipping Zack and Elmyra? You know it’s gonna happen.

Honestly, I thought this scene was pretty good though. Feel like she hated him before the events of the game.
 

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Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
This is just a reaaaally bad joke but how long until some people shipping Zack and Elmyra? You know it’s gonna happen.

Honestly, I thought this scene was pretty good though. Feel like she hated him before the events of the game.
Oh it'll happen, although I thought Cloud was supposed to be the one whose into older women.

I just took this as more evidence that Zack is "the one" for Aerith. Elmyra to Cloud? LEAVE MY DAUGHTER THE FUCK ALONE! Elmyra to Zack? NEVER GO AWAY EVER AGAIN!!!!!!
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Oh it'll happen, although I thought Cloud was supposed to be the one whose into older women.

I just took this as more evidence that Zack is "the one" for Aerith. Elmyra to Cloud? LEAVE MY DAUGHTER THE FUCK ALONE! Elmyra to Zack? NEVER GO AWAY EVER AGAIN!!!!!!
To be fair, I think she said what she said to Cloud because of Zack.

But it really just seems it was more that Aerith’s heart was broken because he disappeared.

Of course she mentions that SOLDIERs traded a normal life for power so I dunno.
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
This is just a reaaaally bad joke but how long until some people shipping Zack and Elmyra? You know it’s gonna happen.

Honestly, I thought this scene was pretty good though. Feel like she hated him before the events of the game.
The same people who ship Tifa and Barret. I think you see where this is going.

Actually, I invented the ship on Feb 29 lmao, it's really just a joke
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
To be fair, I think she said what she said to Cloud because of Zack.

But it really just seems it was more that Aerith’s heart was broken because he disappeared.

Of course she mentions that SOLDIERs traded a normal life for power so I dunno.
True, but apparently she took that stance right the fuck back immediately after meeting Zack XD And who could blame her, Zack has that son in law energy.
 

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
Regarding NPTK, ngl, I was pretty sure it was for Zack, then I was like, yeah, I guess it could be Aerith's song to express what she felt for Cloud, as it links up to the ending and the dream date, and the whole "like like", and the fact that they hold hands on their date, and hold hands at the end.
I think like the rest of you, I felt it was such odd framing for Cloud and Tifa to be holding hands and both looking so pleased at themselves during Aerith's big romantic power ballad to Cloud.

I did NOT expect Nojima to be all "I meant it to be written for ~ everybody ~ "

Perhaps now with the added context, the visual imagery of Cloud holding Tifa's hand at the Gold Saucer syncs up with the end of OG, where Tifa rests her head on Cloud's chest and they want to go and see Aerith - together. And it would make so much sense now that if he does repeat to Tifa in P3 to "Lets go meet her" line if the interpretation is that she knew she was dying, and wanted to one day reunite/ meet all of them again.

Also, I know everyone is happy, it gives Aerith more depth yadda, yadda, she loves her friends etc. etc. - it's all good - but in retrospect can we just talk about how...incredibly baity the marketing for Rebirth was starting from the TGA trailer? The fall-and-almost-kiss, the "love song" trailer that they edited interspersed with close-ups of Cloud's face gazing in awe at Aerith (with her suddenly impressive pipes), the scenes of them in the final chapter holding hands in the social media count down teasers.

I don't "ship" CA, but I think if I were invested in the relationship and it's progress from Remake, and I was holding on to the developer interviews that "both girls will be equal". I'd feel that they really pulled the rug out from under me. I can....sort of understand why people shipping Cloud/Aerith might be displeased with the devs.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
It was good for marketing but I agree it was mean to the CA fans. Although, some of them were hella smug so it’s karma for the more extreme ones. However, I do feel for the general CA fans.

Although, I will saw a lot of trailers tend to be baity in order to sell copies, it’s not exclusive to FF. But yes, it was still mean and they probably shouldn’t have done it.

But in its defense, the song is the theme for the whole game and the trailer only had two CA moments in it besides that. I definitely think it seemed more CA at the time, but watching it back. It’s only those two moments, both occurring in the gondola.

Trailer also has some Zerith.
 

CldS7

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Luffy76
Regarding NPTK, ngl, I was pretty sure it was for Zack, then I was like, yeah, I guess it could be Aerith's song to express what she felt for Cloud, as it links up to the ending and the dream date, and the whole "like like", and the fact that they hold hands on their date, and hold hands at the end.
I think like the rest of you, I felt it was such odd framing for Cloud and Tifa to be holding hands and both looking so pleased at themselves during Aerith's big romantic power ballad to Cloud.

I did NOT expect Nojima to be all "I meant it to be written for ~ everybody ~ "

Perhaps now with the added context, the visual imagery of Cloud holding Tifa's hand at the Gold Saucer syncs up with the end of OG, where Tifa rests her head on Cloud's chest and they want to go and see Aerith - together. And it would make so much sense now that if he does repeat to Tifa in P3 to "Lets go meet her" line if the interpretation is that she knew she was dying, and wanted to one day reunite/ meet all of them again.

Also, I know everyone is happy, it gives Aerith more depth yadda, yadda, she loves her friends etc. etc. - it's all good - but in retrospect can we just talk about how...incredibly baity the marketing for Rebirth was starting from the TGA trailer? The fall-and-almost-kiss, the "love song" trailer that they edited interspersed with close-ups of Cloud's face gazing in awe at Aerith (with her suddenly impressive pipes), the scenes of them in the final chapter holding hands in the social media count down teasers.

I don't "ship" CA, but I think if I were invested in the relationship and it's progress from Remake, and I was holding on to the developer interviews that "both girls will be equal". I'd feel that they really pulled the rug out from under me. I can....sort of understand why people shipping Cloud/Aerith might be displeased with the devs.

the marketing was stupid for sure. Its kinda weird they focused the resolution scene in Remake about 'dont fall in love with me' but its not really referenced at all and they did a complete bait and switch with the Game Awards trailer as well.

Kinda curious if it was all supposed to have a meta meaning or they just did it cause lol
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
the marketing was stupid for sure. Its kinda weird they focused the resolution scene in Remake about 'dont fall in love with me' but its not really referenced at all and they did a complete bait and switch with the Game Awards trailer as well.

Kinda curious if it was all supposed to have a meta meaning or they just did it cause lol
From what I hear, and this could actually be untrue. They weren’t sure if they were gonna be greenlit to go past Part 1. So they included stuff in it that could be a way to “end” it with Part 1 by giving both shippers things and saying the Unknown Journey will continue. That way, if there wasn’t a Part 2 most of the fans would have “gotten their fix”, I guess.

And an unknown journey could at least leave people their imaginations.
 

CldS7

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Luffy76
the both girls being equal statement doesnt mean Tifa and Aerith have to have the exact same relationships and dynamics just to satisfy the Ultras of each fandom

its just like what Cody said tbh
 

CldS7

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Luffy76
From what I hear, and this could actually be untrue. They weren’t sure if they were gonna be greenlit to go past Part 1. So they included stuff in it that could be a way to “end” it with Part 1 by giving both shippers things and saying the Unknown Journey will continue. That way, if there wasn’t a Part 2 most of the fans would have “gotten their fix”, I guess.

And an unknown journey could at least leave people their imaginations.
wow I never knew that man, that is fascinating. Does explain the mini resolution scenes that could just be stand ins. Damn
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
wow I never knew that man, that is fascinating. Does explain the mini resolution scenes that could just be stand ins. Damn
Take it with a grain of salt, it’s just what I’ve heard but I have no sources so I’m not sure if it’s 100% true.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Regarding NPTK, ngl, I was pretty sure it was for Zack, then I was like, yeah, I guess it could be Aerith's song to express what she felt for Cloud, as it links up to the ending and the dream date, and the whole "like like", and the fact that they hold hands on their date, and hold hands at the end.
I think like the rest of you, I felt it was such odd framing for Cloud and Tifa to be holding hands and both looking so pleased at themselves during Aerith's big romantic power ballad to Cloud.

I did NOT expect Nojima to be all "I meant it to be written for ~ everybody ~ "

Perhaps now with the added context, the visual imagery of Cloud holding Tifa's hand at the Gold Saucer syncs up with the end of OG, where Tifa rests her head on Cloud's chest and they want to go and see Aerith - together. And it would make so much sense now that if he does repeat to Tifa in P3 to "Lets go meet her" line if the interpretation is that she knew she was dying, and wanted to one day reunite/ meet all of them again.

Also, I know everyone is happy, it gives Aerith more depth yadda, yadda, she loves her friends etc. etc. - it's all good - but in retrospect can we just talk about how...incredibly baity the marketing for Rebirth was starting from the TGA trailer? The fall-and-almost-kiss, the "love song" trailer that they edited interspersed with close-ups of Cloud's face gazing in awe at Aerith (with her suddenly impressive pipes), the scenes of them in the final chapter holding hands in the social media count down teasers.

I don't "ship" CA, but I think if I were invested in the relationship and it's progress from Remake, and I was holding on to the developer interviews that "both girls will be equal". I'd feel that they really pulled the rug out from under me. I can....sort of understand why people shipping Cloud/Aerith might be displeased with the devs.
If you watched the montage video for the Game awards segment yes. If you watched the full trailer, it was not CA focused that much to be honest.

Like I said at the time when CA was all smug and shit, the trailer was mostly just the Gold Saucer side of Aerith. And with OG we know Tifa can be dated, can be Rosa etc etc. So again, their fault if they felf baited. Someone who knows the game could easily understand it was just one side of the coin.

And yes dev said the girls would have the same screentime (basically) but they never said it would be used with the same atempt. Aerith is not a romance option. Now we know. As someone mentioned, Cloud VA did warn shippers before the release of the game. You can love someone. But this love doesn't have to be romantic. Game seems pretty clear. We can't accuse them to be baity anymore.
 

liuliuliu

Pro Adventurer
and I was holding on to the developer interviews that "both girls will be equal"
i think this is literally reading too much into a line. Hamaguchi said they balanced the screen time for both girl, it is not they balanced their relationship developments with Cloud or their screen time with Cloud etc…
I don’t understand why people’s expectations were set so high to “yah, both girl will have the same amount of lovey dovey moments with cloud” from there..
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
i think this is literally reading too much into a line. The developer side they balanced the screen time for both girl, it is not they balanced their relationship development with Cloud or their screen time with Cloud etc…
I don’t understand why people’s expectations were set to “yah, both girl will have the same amount of lovey dovey moments with cloud” from there..
Not saying it’s anyone in this thread, but I definitely think some fans only see Aerith/Tifa as love interests to Cloud and don’t see the other aspects of importance they have.

Some of those fans would then take that line to mean romantic screentime.
 

Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
Not saying it’s anyone in this thread, but I definitely think some fans only see Aerith/Tifa as love interests to Cloud and don’t see the other aspects of importance they have.

Some of those fans would then take that line to mean romantic screentime.
It's really ironic how "both girls" and extreme CAs keep saying that Tifa is more than a love interest to Cloud and yet they absolutely refuse to accept that Aerith had the role of being more than a love interest*. I don't even get why people keep saying love interest derogatorily? They're all fictional characters, they all have specific roles. Who cares if it's well-written.

*It's even more annoying when they're like, "Tifa is more than a love interest (derogatory)" and then follow that with "Well, she's kind of pointless to the story. Cloud, Aerith and Sephiroth are the real main characters."
 
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