SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Final_Heaven]

Ok then but that also makes all the CxT moments on the way to Shinra tower, etc non romantic/not shippy

I wouldn't say that just because that involves a lot of physical touching between the two that shows that they're very comfortable with each other and their physicality with each other is how they express themselves. Cloud is no wordsmith.

The shippiest Clerith moment for me is the high five arc

The shippiest Cloti moment for me is their heart-to-heart in Cloud’s room at the end of chapter 4

Nah, the shippiest moment is actually the 5 seconds before Tifa shows up where Cloud shows reluctance to leave her since he enjoyed her company so much.

The shippiest Cloti moment is Cloud telling Tifa that she's beautiful since that's the first time that Cloud's ever shown initiative with a woman or Cloud giving Tifa the flower when Cloud was already explained that it's a flower meant for a reunion between lovers. If you even tell Aerith "I'm good" when she tries to offer you the flower, she responds with saying that it'll make his girlfriend happy which then prompts him to ask how much.

Given that she's trying to protect him from getting hurt right there, I don't think we can put a whole lot of stock in the case she's making.

I feel like we should since they've already said that most of Aerith's words and actions are dripping with meaning.

Anyways, it's clearly a reference to what she says in the OG Golden Saucer Date where realizes that the Cloud she's seeing isn't the real Cloud except this time she knows her time in the world is short on top of sensing that Cloud's not right in the head.

A reference to this from the OG btw:

“I’m looking for you.“…"So you won’t have a breakdown.” - what Aerith told Cloud had many deep meanings. Aerith detected that the present Cloud is not the real him during their encounters. She knows it because of her mysterious, inherent ability. -pg. 29, FFVII Ultimania Omega (Aerith knows the real Cloud bit cleriths in the ass because in the remake she tells Cloud his feelings aren’t real.)

 

[Yumelinh]

I think we don't need to go as far as interpreting the "It's just your imagination!" as proof that whatever Cloud's felt in his time of confusion was fake. This would disqualify his relationships with pretty much everyone throughout most of the game and we know that's not true.

However, I'm with @Purple here as I also really don’t know 100% what the writers wanted to achieve in that scene. The words "not real" and "imagination" are a clear indication she wasn't talking about her death at this specific moment and I would prob not given it much thought if we didn't know Cloud isn't his full self right now. I hope there's a callback to it in the next games, but for now, I'm more inclined to believe this is simply a nod to what she said to him in their Golden Saucer date, and that's she's aware that something is quite not right with him right now ( which goes along with this Aerith knowing things her OG!Self only got to learn much later in the game.)

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I feel like we should since they've already said that most of Aerith's words and actions are dripping with meaning.

I'm saying that her attempt to protect him is the meaning.

However, I'm with @Purple here as I also really don’t know 100% what the writers wanted to achieve in that scene. The words "not real" and "imagination" are a clear indication she wasn't talking about her death at this specific moment and I would prob not given it much thought if we didn't know Cloud isn't his full self right now.

I took that as the narrative's greatest allusion to her death there -- or as she's more likely thinking about it in that moment, being gone/never seeing him again. She wants to keep him from being hurt when she's gone, so she's trying to persuade him that what he feels isn't real anyway.

 

[Final_Heaven]

I'm saying that her attempt to protect him is the meaning.



I took that as the narrative's greatest allusion to her death there -- or as she's more likely thinking about it in that moment, being gone/never seeing him again. She wants to keep him from being hurt when she's gone, so she's trying to persuade him that what he feels isn't real anyway.

I think we don't need to go as far as interpreting the "It's just your imagination!" as proof that whatever Cloud's felt in his time of confusion was fake. This would disqualify his relationships with pretty much everyone throughout most of the game and we know that's not true.

However, I'm with @Purple here as I also really don’t know 100% what the writers wanted to achieve in that scene. The words "not real" and "imagination" are a clear indication she wasn't talking about her death at this specific moment and I would prob not given it much thought if we didn't know Cloud isn't his full self right now. I hope there's a callback to it in the next games, but for now, I'm more inclined to believe this is simply a nod to what she said to him in their Golden Saucer date, and that's she's aware that something is quite not right with him right now ( which goes along with this Aerith knowing things her OG!Self only got to learn much later in the game.)

The other words that I've seen used are "It's not real/It's all in your head/It's an illusion".

It's definitely referencing that Cloud is not himself. If OG! Aerith can sense that Cloud isn't the real him then Remake! Aerith should too especially since she seems stronger with her abilities here.

I think the insinuation is that while the real Cloud retains all his memories, he might feel differently about certain things than the Cloud with the manufactured personality. You don't know what the real Cloud thinks of anything until he comes back again. You can only guess using clues.

Maybe, fake Cloud is in love with Aerith while real Cloud loves her platonically. Maybe real Cloud shares his feelings with fake Cloud in that department instead. Could be that the real Cloud hates Yuffie for instance but fake Cloud likes her.

Which is why I'm hoping that the last game is just all the real Cloud and showing how his relationships with people have changed.

Like..the real Cloud and fake Cloud aren't exactly two separate people but they're not exactly the same person either.

He has a split personality.

 

[Purple]

Nah, the shippiest moment is actually the 5 seconds before Tifa shows up where Cloud shows reluctance to leave her since he enjoyed her company so much.

The shippiest Cloti moment is Cloud telling Tifa that she's beautiful since that's the first time that Cloud's ever shown initiative with a woman or Cloud giving Tifa the flower when Cloud was already explained that it's a flower meant for a reunion between lovers. If you even tell Aerith "I'm good" when she tries to offer you the flower, she responds with saying that it'll make his girlfriend happy which then prompts him to ask how much.

I think we can both agree that “shippiest” moment is highly subjective lol but yours are valid too

 

[Yumelinh]

I took that as the narrative's greatest allusion to her death there -- or as she's more likely thinking about it in that moment, being gone/never seeing him again. She wants to keep him from being hurt when she's gone, so she's trying to persuade him that what he feels isn't real anyway.

That could be it...but trying to persuade him in believing his feelings aren't real will not make it any less real or prevent him from being hurt at all tho.

Telling someone what they feel isn't real will not suddenly make anything less painful for them. That's not how feelings work.

As I said, isn't the scene itself but the wording that is weirdly placed there. Having her simply saying " you'll get hurt" or "It's pointless!" would have been a much appropriate way to achieve what you implying here.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's definitely referencing that Cloud is not himself. If OG! Aerith can sense that Cloud isn't the real him then Remake! Aerith should too especially since she seems stronger with her abilities here.

Yes, it's also perceiving he isn't himself. I'm not saying that it isn't. But I'm saying that she's citing that in her well-intentioned attempt to protect him. Referencing accurate information to get him to a misleading destination, for his own good.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I think it is something like it's pointless or there's no use something like that in some language Yumelinh! I will have to recheck where I found that and see~

 

[Purple]

I hope there's a callback to it in the next games

I think the callbacks we’re gonna get are the actual plot points of FF7 OG. Aerith’s death, Lifestream sequence. Maybe a future Avalanche plotline for Barret and we get to meet the members he was talking about. On a superficial level, the resolution scenes seem like a little nod to the fans created by the devs.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That's not how feelings work.

And they aren't always logical either. You're surely not going to ask for hard logic in Aerith's emotionally fueled attempt to achieve an effect with someone else's emotions?

If we're going to talk logic, the effort to protect his feelings (as well as keep him from coming after her) was never going to work in the first place. But she's already shown that she's the type to try doing what she thinks is best even if it's bound for failure.

As I said, isn't the scene itself but the wording that is weirdly placed there. Having her simply saying " you'll get hurt" or "It's pointless!" would have been a much appropriate way to achieve what you implying here.

That same idea of it being pointless is being communicated, though. And "it isn't real" strikes my Western ears as a much more natural way to say that if trying to persuade someone about their own feelings.

 

[MasterMoogle]

Given that she's trying to protect him from getting hurt right there, I don't think we can put a whole lot of stock in the case she's making.

But that's an assumption. A good assumption, but still just an assumption.

I think we can both agree that “shippiest” moment is highly subjective lol but yours are valid too

Objectively speaking, the shippiest moment is between Cloud and Andrea Rhodea. I mean, he outright confesses ON STAGE in front of several people, including Aerith, how much he loves Cloud.

That and Wedge's odd relationship with his cats.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Apparently it was Italian!

 

[billy22]

The whole 'not real/imagination' is far more likely alluding to Cloud's current mental state than it is Aerith's death imo. To use that specific phrasing to a man currently experiencing frequent hallucinations, in a coma 5 years, and has half of his history mixed up says as much.

If she was more alluding to her own death and was only looking to protect him, there are far better ways to write that.

Such as:

"You'll only get hurt."
"I can't/don't/will not love you in return."
"Find someone else, it'll make you happier."

etc, etc.

 

[Yumelinh]

And they aren't always logical either. You're surely not going to ask for hard logic in Aerith's emotionally fueled attempt to achieve an effect with someone else's emotions?

If we're going to talk logic, the effort to protect his feelings (as well as keep him from coming after her) was never going to work in the first place. But she's already shown that she's the type to try doing what she thinks is best even if it's bound for failure.

My point is that she could have achieved this (of trying to protecting his feeling) much better in more simple ways. It's not about being logical or illogical for the matter, but about thinking that you could make someone feel less pain by try to leading them into believing their feelings weren't real, that would require me to believe Aerith is that much clueless about how feelings works which I don't think she is.

I'm not even saying you're the wrong here, I'm just saying the wording there is weirdly placed which gives room to a lot of interpretations.

That same idea of it being pointless is being communicated, though. And "it isn't real" strikes my Western ears as a much more natural way to say that if trying to persuade someone about their own feelings.

Well, I'm from the west, too, but for me, "pointless" and "not real" have two completely different vibes. The first being much more fitting as to why he shouldn't fall in love with her no matter what ( "it's pointless" bc she's going to die anyway) while "not real" simply discredit his feelings altogether.

 

[a_apple]

Given that she's trying to protect him from getting hurt right there, I don't think we can put a whole lot of stock in the case she's making.

I don't think she is making that stuff up, it's such a specific thing to say, something if you played the original, with a much bigger context.
She knows he isn't himself and is in the middle of a mental breake down were he often can't tell what's real and what's not. The idea that she is trying to make him doubt his own feelings instead of just saying that she doesn't love him or loves somebody else makes no sense and seems pretty fucked up.
The way how the scenes plays out makes me believe girl is 100% genuine here.
Also there is that mirroring between C/A and Z/A scenes, that obviously plays into the idea that something is off here.

 

[Final_Heaven]

The whole 'not real/imagination' is far more likely alluding to Cloud's current mental state than it is Aerith's death imo. To use that specific phrasing to a man currently experiencing frequent hallucinations, in a coma 5 years, and has half of his history mixed up outright lie says as much.

If she was more alluding to her own death and was only looking to protect him, there are far better ways to write that.

Such as:

"You'll only get hurt."
"I can't/don't/will not love you in return."
"Find someone else, it'll make you happier."

etc, etc.

Exactly.

Well, I'm from the west, too, but for me, "pointless" and "not real" have two completely different vibes. The first being much more fitting as to why he shouldn't fall in love with her no matter what ( "it's pointless" bc she's going to die anyway) while "not real" simply discredit his feelings altogether.

I think it is something like it's pointless or there's no use something like that in some language Yumelinh! I will have to recheck where I found that and see~

That same idea of it being pointless is being communicated, though. And "it isn't real" strikes my Western ears as a much more natural way to say that if trying to persuade someone about their own feelings.

Apparently it was Italian!

Sounds like a bad translation of that line then

We're gotten a lot of Ultimania translations with those lines and they've all translated it similarly.

The more literal translation is that "it's in your imagination/it's in your head".

"It's not real" was used for English.

"It's an illusion" was used for Mandarin.

"It's pointless" doesn't really carry those connotations that the rest do.

Yes, it's also perceiving he isn't himself. I'm not saying that it isn't. But I'm saying that she's citing that in her well-intentioned attempt to protect him. Referencing accurate information to get him to a misleading destination, for his own good.

I will say this though....if the devs were trying to canonize Cloti explicitly in-game for everyone by the end of Remake, this would be the way to do it by having Aerith bow out before her death, invalidate Cloud's romantic feelings for her and nudge him towards Tifa.

And I would even say that it'd be in-character for her since she's read part of the OG's plot, she knows she won't live that long, she knows Tifa and Cloud have a special bond, she knows this isn't the real Cloud and also both are her best friends and she would want them to be happy.

Not saying that is what's going to happen but it's a route that they may have accidentally stumbled upon.

But still, it's all that I could think about when I saw this scene:

What's going through her head in this scene? She seems so pleased.

 

[minami758]

This is just to the general discussion about Aerith's "imagination" line.

For the record, I’ve always been in the camp that Cloud’s attraction to Aerith was deliberately intended to be fleeting and transient (it’s very mono no aware). Aerith very much played into Cloud’s idea of what a hero should be and she always enjoyed stroking his ego, which is why he took a liking to her in the first place. She was part of a fantasy he built up around himself — that he was a strong SOLDIER, a knight in shining armor — and when she dies that fantasy does too. Cloud says as much himself in the game after he regains his identity: “I can’t remain trapped in an illusion anymore. I’m going to live my life without pretending.”

It doesn’t make Cloud and Aerith’s bond that they develop any less real, but the romantic aspect of it was always tinged with a semblance of Hollywood-esque imagination (as well as Zack's shadow, to a certain point), which is, in my opinion, what Aerith’s line (“it’s your imagination/it’s not real”) is referencing.

(And the real tragedy is that Cloud created this fantasy in the first place for the sake of Tifa.)

I could write an essay on how both Aerith and Zack represent a perfect ideal in an imperfect world, and that’s why they both must die, but that’s not really LTD related and I don't have time, so I won’t.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

But that's an assumption. A good assumption, but still just an assumption.

She has literally no other reason to be doing what she's doing, though. "Whatever happens, don't do [X]" is an attempt at protecting something. Who else could she be trying to protect in this situation?

Well, I'm from the west, too, but for me, "pointless" and "not real" have two completely different vibes. The first being much more fitting as to why he shouldn't fall in love with her no matter what ( "it's pointless" bc she's going to die anyway) while "not real" simply discredit his feelings altogether.

Well, I don't know what to say. In my mind it only makes sense the other way around. XD It can only be somehow "pointless" if it isn't real, but it can't be pointless if it is real.

I will say this though....if the devs were trying to canonize Cloti explicitly in-game for everyone by the end of Remake, this would be the way to do it by having Aerith bow out before her death, invalidate Cloud's romantic feelings for her and nudge him towards Tifa.

And I would even say that it'd be in-character for her since she's read part of the OG's plot, she knows she won't live that long, she knows Tifa and Cloud have a special bond, she knows this isn't the real Cloud and also both are her best friends and she would want them to be happy.

Not saying that is what's going to happen but it's a route that they may have accidentally stumbled upon.

Well, if they are going to go that route, they need to not have Cloud fighting her on it. XD

 

[a_apple]

Yes, it's also perceiving he isn't himself. I'm not saying that it isn't. But I'm saying that she's citing that in her well-intentioned attempt to protect him. Referencing accurate information to get him to a misleading destination, for his own good.

It's probably both, Aerith already knows Cloud isn't his real self, maybe the entire Zack thing is actually influencing his feelings maybe she knows real Cloud has a hard on for Tifa whatever it is, she knows should this feelings grow, then her death would be a much harder hit for him.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Something I also wanted to bring up was that this Cloud has already experienced a sense of loss when it comes to Aerith, Sector 6 scenario (it's not Zack because in story recap it says "Cloud's heart skips a beat"), as well as what Nojima said in the Ultimania, about if you know what happens to Aerith later in the story the c14 stuff would make sense immediately.

 

[Final_Heaven]

Well, if they are going to go that route, they need to not have Cloud fighting her on it. XD

Well, he was a little less combative in Japanese.

They have to if they want to prolong the Love Triangle though. There is 0% chance that Aerith won't be a Golden Saucer Date option.

But maybe in Part II...with the Whispers gone, she might think she a chance after all and then in Part III, she realizes that no, it's gotta be this way .

 

[Master Bates]

All these allusions of possible prior knowledge and I'm just really amused with this image in my head of Aerith (and Sephiroth) actually and physically reading the OG script lmao.

 

[youffie]

I got curious about the Italian translation since people mentioned it, and apparently Aerith doesn't say "You can't fall in love with me", but "We can't fall in love (with each other). It'd be pointless". The dialogues are generally much more synthetic and condensed, too, probably because it's just subtitles.

I have no thoughts on this for now and I'm not sure if it's good or bad, just wanted to clear this up (also because I think the more notable change is the we, as if she's telling that to herself as well)

 

[MasterMoogle]

I got curious about the Italian translation since people mentioned it, and apparently Aerith doesn't say "You can't fall in love with me", but "We can't fall in love (with each other). It'd be pointless". The dialogues are generally much more synthetic and condensed, too, probably because it's just subtitles.

I have no thoughts on this for now and I'm not sure if it's good or bad, just wanted to clear this up (also because I think the more notable change is the we, as if she's telling that to herself as well)

I'm not sure the Italian version is relevant to the original intent of the scene. SE seems to be quite irresponsible with their dubbing and localization.

 

[looneymoon]

Re: Aeriths dream dialogue

Within this game, I thought this scene is one of the stronger lead ins to "Hollow." I mentioned in an earlier that Cloud cant really ever get closure for whatever his relationship was with Aerith. The fact that they were never a thing (it's not real!) makes this worse. Aerith seems to know things, but I think in trying to protect Cloud from a lot of confusion, she is probably making him more confused. After all, the "dont fall in love with a courtesan member of an ancient race who is destined to die" is pretty much the classic romance trope Cloud and Aerith are written around - we as the audience know there's more going on though.