SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Yoru]

It’s definitely been retconned. But you know people will almost assuredly act like it’s still true.

I think it's good. He can have several girlfriends and still be a good match for Aerith.

That's not much compared to Cloud's hall of fame, if what Cult Clerith says about him to justify his love for Aerith is anything to go by.

 

[GamerSkull]

It's a really frustrating talking point because yes, Zack does flirt with other women BEFORE he meets Aerith. Is that a crime now? It's so disingenuous lmao

Yeah, the only other time is when he asks Cissnei out to dinner. Which I think is pretty early on.

 

[Rin]

Yeah, the only other time is when he asks Cissnei out to dinner. Which I think is pretty early on.

He also asks Cloud out to dinner which people pointedly ignore (we all know why) and he gets annoyed when the other troopers invite themselves out with them because he wanted it to be just him and Cloud. Guess he's cheating on Aerith with Cloud, too.

 

[GamerSkull]

He also asks Cloud out to dinner which people pointedly ignore (we all know why) and he gets annoyed when the other troopers invite themselves out with them because he wanted it to be just him and Cloud. Guess he's cheating on Aerith with Cloud, too.

You mean when he invites him in Junon?

I think it’s pretty clear that Zack definitely only has eyes for Aerith after the timeskip.

His dying thoughts are of her. He goes back to Midgar, which is actually the worst place to go considering his situation, in order to be with her.

 

[Eerie]

After all this time it did not occur to me what Japanese fans call the ship. I guess it’s クラテイ? But is that really Clatty or is it supposed to be Cloti transformed through the famous katakana loan word funhouse mirror?

It's Kurati normally but clatty is the google translation lol. Basically Cloud and Tifa mashed together as usual for Japanese pairings names [Kura(udo)Ti(fa)].

Edit: for Zack, I think in BC (and Maiden), his characterisation was only relying on what Aerith said in Gongaga so.... since she was in denial, yeah.

 

[Hellenic]

After all this time it did not occur to me what Japanese fans call the ship. I guess it’s クラテイ? But is that really Clatty or is it supposed to be Cloti transformed through the famous katakana loan word funhouse mirror?

I honestly didn't even know they had a ship name. I just assumed they always refer to the pairings with just the character names straight up.

 

[Rin]

You mean when he invites him in Junon?

I think it’s pretty clear that Zack definitely only has eyes for Aerith after the timeskip.

His dying thoughts are of her. He goes back to Midgar, which is actually the worst place to go considering his situation, in order to be with her.

Yeah in Junon & I think in one of the DMW clips? Which is also where he invites Cissnei to dinner too if I remember right.

Anyway, I agree. He only has eyes for Aerith and Nojima already outright stated that Zack was never wavering between Cissnei and Aerith, and that Zack views his relationship with Cissnei platonically, so I wish people would stop trying to use it as a gotcha already lol.

 

[pxl_pushr]

It's a really frustrating talking point because yes, Zack does flirt with other women BEFORE he meets Aerith. Is that a crime now? It's so disingenuous lmao

It’s high treason according to some…

 

[null]

Didn’t he tell Cissnei to get lost so he could call Aerith? A true player wouldn’t ignore the girl right in front of him lol.

 

[imach0c0]

There's no lyrics on "Words Interrupted by Fireworks"
Uematsu compose music score/BGM inspired by the script he read about specific scene or character
i.e I'm sure many people think FF7AC OST titled "Cloud's Smile" is about the moment he smiles to Zack & Aerith, but Uematsu said he composed that based on Cloud's shy smile on Tifa
People also think "Aerith's Theme" created for Aerith's death scene, and although it's played there, originally Uematsu wanted to compose different song if only he knew Aerith would die

IIRC - I think Nobuo Uemtasu composed Aerith's Theme with the image of Aerith waiting for Zack at the station. There was a line in the scenario he was given where Aerith waited and waited every single day (something along the lines of that). I vaguely remember this interview was published in a pamphlet (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[overheat28]

Cissnei offers to rub suntan lotion on him at the beach. Dude is like "go do something else". Cissnei then correctly guesses he wants to call Aerith.

Pretty girl in bikini offers to rub lotion on him and all this dude can think about is calling his girl back home.

Not to mention the fanclub email where Cissnei herself debunks the flirt accusations.

Zack "womanizer" Fair, lmao.

 

[pxl_pushr]

IIRC - I think Nobuo Uemtasu composed Aerith's Theme with the image of Aerith waiting for Zack at the station. There was a line in the scenario he was given where Aerith waited and waited every single day (something along the lines of that). I vaguely remember this interview was published in a pamphlet (correct me if I'm wrong).

That makes sense to me. Aerith’s theme always sounded somber to me, but I always assumed it had to do with the ultimate fate of the character. I can get a sense of longing from it, so the idea of her waiting for Zack checks out.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Get the conversation back on track please folks, a friendly reminder that this particular section is a little more strict than the rest of the board so try to keep meme'ing and off-topic discussion to an absolute minimum. This is obviously not referring to the few posts immediately prior to mine

Please and thank you

I assure you, it's actually been fairly relevant to the topic, and preferable to the shitshow that made us implement the rules in the first place.

After all this time it did not occur to me what Japanese fans call the ship. I guess it’s クラテイ? But is that really Clatty or is it supposed to be Cloti transformed through the famous katakana loan word funhouse mirror?

The latter, though Clatty is closer to a literal version. Ku Ra U Do is how you spell Cloud in Kana.

It's Kurati normally but clatty is the google translation lol. Basically Cloud and Tifa mashed together as usual for Japanese pairings names [Kura(udo)Ti(fa)].

I honestly didn't even know they had a ship name. I just assumed they always refer to the pairings with just the character names straight up.

In Japan, ship names for heterosexual couples are basically always the man's first few kana/gana followed by the woman's. So KuraTei for Cloud and Tifa (you don't fully pronounce all of these letters, Te followed by an i becomes Ti, fu followed by a is Fa, etc. ) ZaEru for Zack and Aerith, If we were shipping Barret and Myrna it would be BarMyr. Sometimes you get cutesier portmanteaus but that's the rules.

For same sex couples the same rules apply, you just pick one of them to come first.

Also, fuck Usagi Drop. With a chainsaw.

 

[GamerSkull]

After looking at a recent reply that Shinra Archeology Department made, I was subjected to shipping tweets against my will.

Saw someone say in response to some video or post about Tifa (can’t remember since I clicked off as soon as I read it) that Tifa was some background side character compared to Aerith and “what game did they play?”

God, I’m so confused. Maybe this is why Nomura and Nojima aren’t afraid. They know that no matter what, the opposing side will still thrive on some bizarre headcanons that they’ll pretend is 100% canon.

Seriously, I’m so confused.

Each side is super confident in their victory, so that means one of us has to be delusional. I really hope Part 3 clears that up.

 

[Rin]

After looking at a recent reply that Shinra Archeology Department made, I was subjected to shipping tweets against my will.

Saw someone say in response to some video or post about Tifa (can’t remember since I clicked off as soon as I read it) that Tifa was some background side character compared to Aerith and “what game did they play?”

God, I’m so confused. Maybe this is why Nomura and Nojima aren’t afraid. They know that no matter what, the opposing side will still thrive on some bizarre headcanons that they’ll pretend is 100% canon.

Seriously, I’m so confused.

Each side is super confident in their victory, so that means one of us has to be delusional. I really hope Part 3 clears that up.

It will, but the losing side will act like it won't, so we'll still be here lol. Just be prepared for that. It genuinely doesn't matter what SE does. The fighting will continue.

 

[Ryushikaze]

After looking at a recent reply that Shinra Archeology Department made, I was subjected to shipping tweets against my will.

Saw someone say in response to some video or post about Tifa (can’t remember since I clicked off as soon as I read it) that Tifa was some background side character compared to Aerith and “what game did they play?”

Tifa is listed as a heroine of the game. She is labeled as such on the same page that lists Cloud as the hero and sandwiched between him and Aerith, in fact. Anyone saying she's a side character is huffing the copium, and we're not even to her biggest scenes yet.

God, I’m so confused. Maybe this is why Nomura and Nojima aren’t afraid. They know that no matter what, the opposing side will still thrive on some bizarre headcanons that they’ll pretend is 100% canon.

Seriously, I’m so confused.

Each side is super confident in their victory, so that means one of us has to be delusional. I really hope Part 3 clears that up.

I with all confidence will state that it is the other side.

 

[GamerSkull]

It will, but the losing side will act like it won't, so we'll still be here lol. Just be prepared for that. It genuinely doesn't matter what SE does. The fighting will continue.

Yeah, that’s true. At least with most regular fans the matter will be settled.

 

[imach0c0]

Cissnei offers to rub suntan lotion on him at the beach. Dude is like "go do something else". Cissnei then correctly guesses he wants to call Aerith.

Pretty girl in bikini offers to rub lotion on him and all this dude can think about is calling his girl back home.

Not to mention the fanclub email where Cissnei herself debunks the flirt accusations.

Zack "womanizer" Fair, lmao.

I think the "womanizer" discourse comes from Zack mentioning having "multiple girlfriends" in OG (JP). I have not seen the original JP script so I am not sure if that is a mistranslation or if this was the actual JP script.
@Ryushikaze Do you have insight on this?

There was also the Maiden novel where Aerith calls out Zack's flirty ways. (This is not canon material but there are some people who still believe it to be)

If "multiple girlfriends" was a confirmed in OG (JP), it seems to be retconned because there is no mention of Zack having multiple girlfriends in the Ultimanias or other official FFVII media in the compilation. Ultimanias have mentioned how Aerith is special to Zack. The "girlfriend" that Zack mentions in his letter to his parents is implied to be Aerith. And in an interview, Nojima said that he did not intend for Zack to waver between Cissnei and Zack.

On a side note - I think womanizer is the incorrect term to describe Zack because he wasn't involved with multiple women at one time nor was it implied that he did anything sexual with them. I read his character as someone who is charming and playfully flirtatious. And when he met Aerith, he was only committed to her.

 

[GamerSkull]

Tifa is listed as a heroine of the game. She is labeled as such on the same page that lists Cloud as the hero and sandwiched between him and Aerith, in fact. Anyone saying she's a side character is huffing the copium, and we're not even to her biggest scenes yet.


I with all confidence will state that it is the other side.

That’s just it. I don’t necessarily want to “win”. I just want confirmation that I’m not delusional and that I had the media literacy skills to understand the original story.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think the "womanizer" discourse comes from Zack mentioning having "multiple girlfriends" in OG (JP). I have not seen the original JP script so I am not sure if that is a mistranslation or if the was actually written.
@Ryushikaze Do you have insight on this?

There was also the Maiden novel where Aerith calls out Zack's flirty ways. (This is not canon material but there are some people who still believe it to be)

If "multiple girlfriends" was a confirmed in OG (JP), it seems to be retconned because there is no mention of Zack having multiple girlfriends in the Ultimanias or other official FFVII media in the compilation. Ultimanias have mentioned how Aerith is special to Zack. The "girlfriend" that Zack mentions in his letter to his parents is implied to be Aerith. And in an interview, Nojima said that he did not intend for Zack to waver between Cissnei and Zack.

On a side note - I think womanizer is the incorrect term to describe Zack because he wasn't involved with multiple women at one time nor was it implied that he did anything sexual with them. I read his character as someone who is charming and playfully flirtatious. And when he met Aerith, he was only committed to her.

Womanizer has a negative connotation because it implies a lack of loyalty. There’s almost an implication of “serial cheater” with it.

I think it’s more accurate to say Zack was a “ladies man” in that he wasn’t a two-timer but just had insane rizz so he was often not turned down.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I think the "womanizer" discourse comes from Zack mentioning having "multiple girlfriends" in OG (JP). I have not seen the original JP script so I am not sure if that is a mistranslation or if this was the actual JP script.
@Ryushikaze Do you have insight on this?

So, FFVII International is a direct port of the English Language edition. There are not any changes from the US release as far as I am aware, and that includes any changes to the Zack segment (which was first added into the US version, it being more feature complete than the JP original).
So what I am thinking is that this is a misunderstanding of when Zack is talking about having a place he can creash for awhile but "the mother lives there too" which is a clear nod to Aerith and Elmyra.

There was also the Maiden novel where Aerith calls out Zack's flirty ways. (This is not canon material but there are some people who still believe it to be)

So, even if we count Maiden, we can explain that easily. In Crisis Core, Zack is extremely flirty towards Aerith. Just Aerith. She's teasing him.

If "multiple girlfriends" was a confirmed in OG (JP), it seems to be retconned because there is no mention of Zack having multiple girlfriends in the Ultimanias or other official FFVII media in the compilation. Ultimanias have mentioned how Aerith is special to Zack. The "girlfriend" that Zack mentions in his letter to his parents is implied to be Aerith. And in an interview, Nojima said that he did not intend for Zack to waver between Cissnei and Zack.

On a side note - I think womanizer is the incorrect term to describe Zack because he wasn't involved with multiple women at one time nor was it implied that he did anything sexual with them. I read his character as someone who is charming and playfully flirtatious. And when he met Aerith, he was only committed to her.

Yeah, Zack is a one woman man. A wife guy.

That’s just it. I don’t necessarily want to “win”. I just want confirmation that I’m not delusional and that I had the media literacy skills to understand the original story.

I think you can rest easy. You are not delusional. The people who are arguing against literal textual and metatextual statements are delusional.

 

[pxl_pushr]

That’s just it. I don’t necessarily want to “win”. I just want confirmation that I’m not delusional and that I had the media literacy skills to understand the original story.

Here’s something I do to kind of “check myself”. First, stop and remember that we’re talking about a Final Fantasy game. One entry in a a catalogue of anthology stories that all hover closely around eachother in terms of narrative and character complexity.

So while polyamorous answers to the LTD make for funny memes and appealing fanfiction… that’s not FF.

A guy building a life with another character to pass the time as he waits to die and reunite with his true love… that’s not FF.

You can see FF7 DNA in most of its immediate titles. It’s no accident that Kefka and Sephiroth get compared as villains, because S is an evolution of K.

In short, if you have no problem decoding any other FF title, then FF7 should be simple… IF you actually pay attention. There’s some wiggle room, but not nearly as much to justify some of the more extreme takes. Even if Cloud started to develop feelings for Aerith, fact is that he’s Team Tifa at the end of the day.

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah, I just don’t like being called delusional for what I consider to be pretty obvious things that occur in these games.

I understand most other FFs just fine, so I don’t see how I can be so far off the mark with this particular one.

Most of the time I’m confident but sometimes, I hear the other takes and I just begin to wonder…

 

[looneymoon]

I'm at Temple of the Ancients and Cloud/Tifa is heavily being pushed despite my C/A playthrough. It's super awkward.

Cloud is going crazy, much to no one's surprise. The team is hella under reacting to his behaviour. I am actually super confused at this point, because I can't decide if Tifa is the only dumbass waifu, or if Aerith is as well. I guess with Aerith I can at least assume she can see the future or some shit.

I'm so tired. They fumbled the romance so hard. So hard that the entire plot feels so fucking broken.

(ngl I'm containing this in the LTD thread because I don't want a fanboy essay about how wrong I am for thinking this shit is bad)

 

[frosty]

It's a really frustrating talking point because yes, Zack does flirt with other women BEFORE he meets Aerith. Is that a crime now? It's so disingenuous lmao

Is weird cos Zidane and Tidus do the "ladies man" schtick aka flirt, hit on other women, put on Casanova act but shown to want to emotionally support / be protective of only the main love interest but no one writes essays about that shit