SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
HAHAHA, oh wow, this is gonna be good. Please tell me who said this because I do wanna bookmark that for laughter 3 years from now.
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
Go ahead. That's what this place is for afterall. Also welcome.hello all! i’ve been lurking since rebirth, and this is my first post, but i’m afraid i have a lot to say haha.
zack and aerith have always been my favourite characters since the original in 97, and even though they are my ultimate coupling, i was always into cloud x aerith in that game. this is because tifa was my most disliked character, and i accepted that zack was dead and that aerith could move on. however, i did also accept that, when aerith died, cloud could move on with tifa.
rebirth in particular has made me change my mind about everything completely though, and i wanted to get others’ opinions on a few things regarding this love triangle/square. is it okay to write long posts here? is there a character limit? i’ve never posted on a forum before, so i don’t want to instantly annoy everyone
Nancy
Lv. 25 Adventurer
This was written from someone on YouTube lol
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
This was supposedly some comment in youtube, though it was a person in reddit mentioning it so i don't have actual proof of the comment itself, but the redditor basically said that Cloud kissed her to make her stop talking, which could be about the insecurities yeah.
Sacky
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- SackyBoy
i spoke with this person on a different video they wrote many long paragraphs. At first they said not here to start any shipping wars but....
then had the most outlandish takes XD
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
If SE decided to make that a contributing factor, I'd buy it.
Indeed we are.
Then we wonder how high their now gaseous forms might ride on the thermal updraft.
I'll call up the guys at Manner Co. They'll live it.
I love the continuum of it. Pete quipping casually? You're gonna be webbed upside down outside the local police station. Pete lecturing you about how awful you are with no jokes? You're going to the hospital. Pete dead silent? Hope someone who can hold him back is nearby.
Maximum effect, maximum justification.
It's hard to remember but even now Pete does get a break once in awhile.
Now imagine that being the final words in this thread: No disputes. It gives me a warm feeling to think of it.
Poor Wanda.
Yeah, that
Cyke is funny, adaptations always play into his stoic, tightly wound side to the point of making him unlikable (all the better to shill Logan) and forget how casually quirky and fun he can be. How much beer Logan owes him over billiards, for instance. To see him go for it, as you said, you really gotta go to the comics.
I love BtVS and always will, but it was undeniably at its best when it might be over at any time.
I'm missing a reference I think.
Then the sourcebook needs added emphasis and QFFT everywhere. But I'm not going to Twitter to do it, I cba
No one is prepared for Grotesqueries. No one.
Third cousin, twice removed.
hello all! i’ve been lurking since rebirth, and this is my first post, but i’m afraid i have a lot to say haha.
zack and aerith have always been my favourite characters since the original in 97, and even though they are my ultimate coupling, i was always into cloud x aerith in that game. this is because tifa was my most disliked character, and i accepted that zack was dead and that aerith could move on. however, i did also accept that, when aerith died, cloud could move on with tifa.
rebirth in particular has made me change my mind about everything completely though, and i wanted to get others’ opinions on a few things regarding this love triangle/square. is it okay to write long posts here? is there a character limit? i’ve never posted on a forum before, so i don’t want to instantly annoy everyone
Welcome an' shit
Do not fear the long post, it's much preferable to spam posting to get your thoughts out.
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
It's some guy in youtube comments it seems, but i cropped the name on purpose so people can't go hound their ass about it. As bad as these takes are, i don't wanna point people to go after these people.
nars305
🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
So basically they will continue to not like the story of FF7 because they want to change every thing that is being set up lmao.View attachment 16911
Have fun guys
EDIT: Also in case it's not clear, this is not a list i made for those who might lurk here and don't know my angle on this stuff yet. I just saw it in Twitter and brought it here to spice things up a little.
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
Welp i guess abzy linked it here anyway. Check that if you're interested on who posted it.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I think this is a troll, leave them be lmao.View attachment 16911
Have fun guys
EDIT: Also in case it's not clear, this is not a list i made for those who might lurk here and don't know my angle on this stuff yet. I just saw it in Twitter and brought it here to spice things up a little.
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
If they produce lists like that then not sure what they are trying to start if not wars.
abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
Stiggie asked for it, Sorry, shoud've dm'd them.
Just on that note, no, I don't condone any harrassment of the person who posted the comment. Anybody who blatantly harasses people is no friend of mine.
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
That or some person who didn't make the list in the most rational of mind when writing it. Just some fun little takes that no one should take seriously though yeah.
zinniawoods109349
Lv. 1 Adventurer
- AKA
- zinnia
thank you everyone for being so welcoming! i guess this post will contain spoilers for rebirth btw.
so! when i played remake and aerith said to cloud “you can’t fall in love with me. even if you think you have, it’s not real”, i thought at the time that she was saying that because cloud was actually mistaking zack’s feelings for his own. so i ended up believing that cloud had picked up some of zack’s feelings in the same way that he picked up some of his abilities and memories. i actually thought this line also killed the love triangle straight away (i chose to ignore that when it came to dialogue choices though because i still didn’t care for tifa, and i didn’t know their plans for zack). when i read later that aerith was also partly speaking to herself, it still made sense because it seemed that, while she thought she was in love with cloud, it was actually just her feelings for zack being stirred up because of their similarities.
if aerith knew that cloud was simply just in love with tifa instead or that he had overestimated his feelings, why would she specifically say that his feelings aren’t “real” rather than that he’s just mistaken or wrong? it just feels a bit too specific. is it possible that, at this point, cloud has feelings for aerith but maybe doesn’t understand them and that this aerith from the future knows this and also knows that theyre not real because of the zack situation? we all know that zack spoke about nothing else on the way back to midgar haha (“not interested? imma tell you anyway”) so why can’t cloud pick up his feelings if he can pick up everything else?
it also makes sense with aerith wondering what kind of feelings she has for cloud at the end of rebirth. she already said in remake that they’re not real, so the end of rebirth is when she realises that, surely? to me, it seemed as though she was realising they’re not romantic when they were talking in the church. but, regardless of zack, she’s already said they’re not real, so is there really ambiguity anyway about how she feels towards cloud?
overall, i was wondering whether it could be that cloud has feelings, or thinks he does, for both tifa and aerith in remake and rebirth but that, in part three, he realises (like aerith already has) that his feelings for aerith aren’t real and are a manifestation of zack’s feelings and that he only has feelings for tifa? this could also mean that if players showed a preference towards aerith in the first two games, it still makes sense in terms of the story because cloud had those thoughts and feelings at that time, even though they were misguided? this could explain why he was jealous about aerith finding another date in the gold saucer and why barrett told him to pick one. if he only has feelings for aerith because of zack, then it also means that he can’t be accused of simply settling for tifa after aerith dies because they were never his feelings to begin with, whereas his feelings for tifa were always his own. hope i make sense haha.
has anyone discussed before whether cloud’s feelings for aerith are only a manifestation of zack’s feelings?
it is possible though that i’m now just trying to convince myself to make myself feel better because zack……
i loved how every time zack or aerith looked at the sky, it showed the other looking back, and i loved how their lines mirrored each other. i didn’t really think too much about the zack x aerith x cloud triangle i created for myself until that marlene scene though… safe to say that marlene has now replaced tifa as my most disliked character haha (only joking)
my heart broke in two when i saw that scene, not to mention the next one where he has her bow wrapped around his hand and tries to save cloud because of aerith’s feelings towards him (would’ve been funny if he picked biggs after recalling that memory though
). it dawned on me then that zack was back now in some sort of capacity and, as he is my favourite, i NEED him to be with aerith haha.
the final date that aerith had with cloud made me uncomfortable. i didn’t really get all the zack references, but when she mentioned “our place”, i was so surprised that she would say that to cloud. hasn’t he only been there with her like once or something? zack practically lived there. i’ve seen people deny that this date has any significance to the crisis core date, but when zack and biggs walk from near the church to sector 5, someone says in the background “a lot of good dates started right here…”, so i feel like the developers definitely had the crisis core date in mind.
in rebirth, i still gave all the preferable responses to aerith and the non-preferable responses to tifa because that’s how i’ve always played ff7 (and i didn’t consider zack since he wasn’t in the game much until the end). quite early on though, i found my 27-year dislike for tifa starting to change, and aerith even started to annoy me a bit, which really surprised me.
it seems more obvious to me than ever in remake and rebirth that cloud and tifa fit much better than cloud and aerith… zack and aerith also fit better than cloud and aerith (i bet cloud resents the day zack offered aerith that one date since she hasn’t stopped making everything a date since haha).
even though i supported cloud x aerith for 27 years and disliked tifa for the same amount of time, i just don’t think that i can deny that, in rebirth, cloud has clear feelings for tifa and that his feelings for aerith are more ambiguous. i think it’s a big deal that tifa and cloud kissed regardless of whether it was canon because final fantasy don’t hand out kisses too lightly. cloud also had the perfect opportunity to kiss aerith and didn’t take it (he initiated the kiss with tifa so i don’t think confidence was at play here, and why not kiss her if it’s not canon anyway? this was a very deliberate choice). i was upset for aerith when cloud wouldn’t sit next to her in the GS date, and i thought it was a bit odd for tifa and cloud to hold hands while aerith was singing if the song was meant to be about aerith’s romantic feelings for cloud (as some people have said).
does anyone else think that the song is about both cloud and zack in particular? i think that all the lines about the cobbled street could refer to cloud and that all the lines about promises and meeting again someday could refer to zack. cloud is literally stood right next to her when she writes the song, why does she need to wait for the day to meet him again? i also think cloud only made a promise to aerith at the end of the game and not before writing the song? i could be wrong about that, but i know for sure that, in the last conversation zack and aerith ever had, zack promised that he would see her again, and we know shes been waiting for at least 5 years since she never stopped writing letters. the flowers on the church floor surround aerith on stage when she sings the lines “Till the day that we meet again. At our place, just let me believe. In the chance that you'll come.” it’s in the developers interest not to be direct about it referring to zack if they intend to create suspense for part three regarding whether they’ll reunite.
i think (hope) aerith will walk/fall into the church in part three while zack is sitting there.. and i just hope for her sake that he sees her from the right angle
(i have a theory for what cloud says in the GS date to aerith, which i’ll post next!)
so! when i played remake and aerith said to cloud “you can’t fall in love with me. even if you think you have, it’s not real”, i thought at the time that she was saying that because cloud was actually mistaking zack’s feelings for his own. so i ended up believing that cloud had picked up some of zack’s feelings in the same way that he picked up some of his abilities and memories. i actually thought this line also killed the love triangle straight away (i chose to ignore that when it came to dialogue choices though because i still didn’t care for tifa, and i didn’t know their plans for zack). when i read later that aerith was also partly speaking to herself, it still made sense because it seemed that, while she thought she was in love with cloud, it was actually just her feelings for zack being stirred up because of their similarities.
if aerith knew that cloud was simply just in love with tifa instead or that he had overestimated his feelings, why would she specifically say that his feelings aren’t “real” rather than that he’s just mistaken or wrong? it just feels a bit too specific. is it possible that, at this point, cloud has feelings for aerith but maybe doesn’t understand them and that this aerith from the future knows this and also knows that theyre not real because of the zack situation? we all know that zack spoke about nothing else on the way back to midgar haha (“not interested? imma tell you anyway”) so why can’t cloud pick up his feelings if he can pick up everything else?
it also makes sense with aerith wondering what kind of feelings she has for cloud at the end of rebirth. she already said in remake that they’re not real, so the end of rebirth is when she realises that, surely? to me, it seemed as though she was realising they’re not romantic when they were talking in the church. but, regardless of zack, she’s already said they’re not real, so is there really ambiguity anyway about how she feels towards cloud?
overall, i was wondering whether it could be that cloud has feelings, or thinks he does, for both tifa and aerith in remake and rebirth but that, in part three, he realises (like aerith already has) that his feelings for aerith aren’t real and are a manifestation of zack’s feelings and that he only has feelings for tifa? this could also mean that if players showed a preference towards aerith in the first two games, it still makes sense in terms of the story because cloud had those thoughts and feelings at that time, even though they were misguided? this could explain why he was jealous about aerith finding another date in the gold saucer and why barrett told him to pick one. if he only has feelings for aerith because of zack, then it also means that he can’t be accused of simply settling for tifa after aerith dies because they were never his feelings to begin with, whereas his feelings for tifa were always his own. hope i make sense haha.
has anyone discussed before whether cloud’s feelings for aerith are only a manifestation of zack’s feelings?
it is possible though that i’m now just trying to convince myself to make myself feel better because zack……
i loved how every time zack or aerith looked at the sky, it showed the other looking back, and i loved how their lines mirrored each other. i didn’t really think too much about the zack x aerith x cloud triangle i created for myself until that marlene scene though… safe to say that marlene has now replaced tifa as my most disliked character haha (only joking)
my heart broke in two when i saw that scene, not to mention the next one where he has her bow wrapped around his hand and tries to save cloud because of aerith’s feelings towards him (would’ve been funny if he picked biggs after recalling that memory though
). it dawned on me then that zack was back now in some sort of capacity and, as he is my favourite, i NEED him to be with aerith haha.the final date that aerith had with cloud made me uncomfortable. i didn’t really get all the zack references, but when she mentioned “our place”, i was so surprised that she would say that to cloud. hasn’t he only been there with her like once or something? zack practically lived there. i’ve seen people deny that this date has any significance to the crisis core date, but when zack and biggs walk from near the church to sector 5, someone says in the background “a lot of good dates started right here…”, so i feel like the developers definitely had the crisis core date in mind.
in rebirth, i still gave all the preferable responses to aerith and the non-preferable responses to tifa because that’s how i’ve always played ff7 (and i didn’t consider zack since he wasn’t in the game much until the end). quite early on though, i found my 27-year dislike for tifa starting to change, and aerith even started to annoy me a bit, which really surprised me.
it seems more obvious to me than ever in remake and rebirth that cloud and tifa fit much better than cloud and aerith… zack and aerith also fit better than cloud and aerith (i bet cloud resents the day zack offered aerith that one date since she hasn’t stopped making everything a date since haha).
even though i supported cloud x aerith for 27 years and disliked tifa for the same amount of time, i just don’t think that i can deny that, in rebirth, cloud has clear feelings for tifa and that his feelings for aerith are more ambiguous. i think it’s a big deal that tifa and cloud kissed regardless of whether it was canon because final fantasy don’t hand out kisses too lightly. cloud also had the perfect opportunity to kiss aerith and didn’t take it (he initiated the kiss with tifa so i don’t think confidence was at play here, and why not kiss her if it’s not canon anyway? this was a very deliberate choice). i was upset for aerith when cloud wouldn’t sit next to her in the GS date, and i thought it was a bit odd for tifa and cloud to hold hands while aerith was singing if the song was meant to be about aerith’s romantic feelings for cloud (as some people have said).
does anyone else think that the song is about both cloud and zack in particular? i think that all the lines about the cobbled street could refer to cloud and that all the lines about promises and meeting again someday could refer to zack. cloud is literally stood right next to her when she writes the song, why does she need to wait for the day to meet him again? i also think cloud only made a promise to aerith at the end of the game and not before writing the song? i could be wrong about that, but i know for sure that, in the last conversation zack and aerith ever had, zack promised that he would see her again, and we know shes been waiting for at least 5 years since she never stopped writing letters. the flowers on the church floor surround aerith on stage when she sings the lines “Till the day that we meet again. At our place, just let me believe. In the chance that you'll come.” it’s in the developers interest not to be direct about it referring to zack if they intend to create suspense for part three regarding whether they’ll reunite.
i think (hope) aerith will walk/fall into the church in part three while zack is sitting there.. and i just hope for her sake that he sees her from the right angle
(i have a theory for what cloud says in the GS date to aerith, which i’ll post next!)
Well, they did literally say that if it didn't come true we could laugh at em. I aint gonna hound em now, but I'm definitely bookmarking that to keep them to their word XD
I am planning on making a victory lap video after part 3 comes out with takes like that one combined with the spanish laughing man meme and the benny hill song or something. I actually want another song but can't remember the name.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
I honestly don't know if it's worth it. Personally, I just intend to "celebrate" my ship with the content the game will offer me and that's all.
"You're not even worth ruining my joy with your negativity" kind of spirit.
abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
So, if you're talking about the cinematic at the very end, then I don't think he actually promised her anything. Well, he did of course, but that's not quite the wording used in Japanese.
Correct me if I'm wrong, the word for promise in Japanese is "約束" or "yakusoku", but what he says here is "きっと" or "kitto".
What is essentially being said here is:
Cloud: "Aerith, I'll find Sephiroth."
Aerith: "definitely?"
Cloud: "definitely"
...or that's what I think is being said. I'm no expert on Japanese, so others here who are much more experienced might be able to give a better answer.
Cloud promising Aerith fits the context here, but there's thematic relevance to promises in ff7, especially to Cloud. So it's important to know when it is and isn't being used.
Ryeleigh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Rye
That entire thing is so wrong, it can't be real lmao.View attachment 16911
Have fun guys
EDIT: Also in case it's not clear, this is not a list i made for those who might lurk here and don't know my angle on this stuff yet. I just saw it in Twitter and brought it here to spice things up a little.
To be honest, I tend to ignore Aerith's resolution in Remake because I felt it was too weird and out of place. Like, for the most of Remake Cloud was bristling, defensive and grumbling around Aerith (which is not to say he doesn't care, Cloud cares about everyone, particularly if the other character has shown their own vulnerabilities to him first). The game also framed Jessie/Aerith/Cloud interactions particularly in similar ways. Then after, what, a day of that Aerith drops the bomb of "Don't fall in love with me. It's not real" (paraphrased), which felt as if she was talking to the player and herself more than Cloud.
So my first reaction to Aerith's resolution was "Okay????" and I think it's still "Okay????" until Part 3 maaaaaybe reframes it. Maybe, lol.
Hmm... do you mean Cloud's feelings in general or do you mean specifically romantic feelings that Cloud may or may not have for Aerith? Because if it's the former, I don't think I'd like that because Cloud is allowed to have his own feelings for Aerith. He says it himself: they're friends. If it's the latter, you need to first prove that he does, indeed, have romantic feelings for Aerith, lol.
So I guess canonically I wouldn't quite like it but I could see it as something interesting to explore in a fan fic.
I'm curious, though, why is Tifa your most disliked character? XD
Nojima already confirmed (several times, lol) that the song is about everyone. But even before that confirmation, I thought the song was ambiguous enough to fit ZA, CA and CT.
Also, welcome!
Well, the thing is, there are plenty of reasons why someone could consider something to be "not real". I think a lot of people take a much to scientific approach to it rather than a human one.
If my father lost his memories in some accident, and then falls in love with his nurse in the hospital and has no interest in the 70 year old woman that is my mother, would that infatuation be real after he regains his memories a week later?
Simply the fact that my father would not have his memories and the experiences and meaning that come with those memories is enough to say that his feelings for the nurse aren't "real". Simply because they never would have happened if my father were in full control of his faculties.
I don't think Cloud needs Zacks feeling for Aerith to reasonably conclude that it's "illusory" as Aerith calls it in Japanese. If Cloud is not really being himself and is in ANY WAY repressing some of his feelings or memories regarding Tifa then it makes sense to say it's not real. Because if Cloud were fully aware of his history with Tifa he would likely not be developing the same feelings, because he would be acting different and as a result feeling different. Similarly we have to ask if Aerith would develop feelings for Cloud if he were his real self, and not emulating Zack. She might be able to switch her affections to real Cloud once she has affection for fake Cloud, but that's like training wheels, you're easing her into it.
There are several things here that need to be untangled.
1: Aerith liking Cloud because she's projecting her feelings for Zack onto him.
2: Aerith liking Cloud because his behavior is similar and she likes that behavior BECAUSE it's Zacks behavior.
3: Aerith liking Cloud because she intrinsically likes that sort of behavior but she doesn't know that in this case the behavior comes from Zack
4: Aerith liking Cloud because of behavior representative of REAL Cloud, but would not have been initially interested if it weren't for the Zack element.
5: Aerith liking Cloud because of behavior representative of REAL Cloud, and she would have fallen for that Cloud REGARDLESS of whether or not Zack had ever existed.
6: Cloud just liking Aerith as a friend
7: Cloud liking Aerith because he literally has Zacks emotions.
8: Cloud liking Aerith because he has a changed personality while his real one wouldn't have been interested.
9: Cloud liking Aerith because he has a different set of memories than his normal ones, and his normal ones would have prevented him from falling in love
10: Cloud liking Aerith because his emotions for Tifa are undermined by his fake persona.
11: Cloud liking Aerith because she allows him to play out his Soldier fantasy
12: Cloud liking Aerith but really wanting Tifa more but that is being prevented by outside forces.
13: Cloud genuinely liking Aerith because his real self simply likes her and would be liked her more than Tifa regardless of happenstance.
For it "not to be fake/illusionary" Both 5 and 13 need to be true, and this is simply unlikely.
Hell, even then it could still justify calling it fake simply because "it won't lead anywhere and you'll end up with Tifa anyway".
The question that I want answered really is whether chapter 14 remake Aerith is before or after Rebirth dream date Aerith, it seems to me after.
Oh yeah, ad nauseum XD Although the reverse is more often discussed since we have more info on it. In case of Cloud for Aerith we don't even know IF he has any romantic feelings for her, so not much to discuss. As for non-romantic feelings, I don't see why Cloud wouldn't develop those for anyone so.
Well, in Japanese it goes a little differently, although I can't quite remember what he says there XD At the very least it doesn't imply that he's gonna save him so that he can screw his girlfriend or something. Weird english translations abound.my heart broke in two when i saw that scene, not to mention the next one where he has her bow wrapped around his hand and tries to save cloud because of aerith’s feelings towards him (would’ve been funny if he picked biggs after recalling that memory though
Another bad translation, it should be "a place of memories" since, as many people have already stated. It's not "their place", they literally spent about 5 minutes there and didn't even meet there so. Meanwhile the Zack and Aerith keyart for Crisis core was specifically altered to include the church, make of that what you will.
Well, we know the song is about everyone she met during her journey, the writer already confirmed that. Also, there is again a lot of bad translation in this song that makes it way more pointed in the english version than the Japanese one (honestly I hate this song btw, I have so many complaints about it). But yeah, I do tend to think it was Zack inspired, mostly since its writing is connected to her being informed that Cloud remembers Zack. It might be about everything but her experiences in regards to Zack must have inspired it since that's literally the bulk of her growth during Rebirth. And when it comes to Cloud and/or Zack it obviously becomes a bit of a meaningless distinction because the two are very much linked both in reality through the Jenova cells, but also in Aeriths experience in that regardless of Cloud ACTUALLY being Zack she is juxtaposing the two in some way regardless and trying to sift through those emotions.
Anyway, I still don't get why you didn't like Tifa. I mean, I'd get it if you were a hardcore Clerith but you seem to prefer Zerith, so what was your issue with Tifa? It's hard for me to imagine a more difficult to dislike person.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
There are a lot of rumbling thoughts there so I'll try to answer some of it; basically, the LT has always been an illusion that was answered in the OG with the Lifestream scene.thank you everyone for being so welcoming! i guess this post will contain spoilers for rebirth btw.
so! when i played remake and aerith said to cloud “you can’t fall in love with me. even if you think you have, it’s not real”, i thought at the time that she was saying that because cloud was actually mistaking zack’s feelings for his own. so i ended up believing that cloud had picked up some of zack’s feelings in the same way that he picked up some of his abilities and memories. i actually thought this line also killed the love triangle straight away (i chose to ignore that when it came to dialogue choices though because i still didn’t care for tifa, and i didn’t know their plans for zack). when i read later that aerith was also partly speaking to herself, it still made sense because it seemed that, while she thought she was in love with cloud, it was actually just her feelings for zack being stirred up because of their similarities.
if aerith knew that cloud was simply just in love with tifa instead or that he had overestimated his feelings, why would she specifically say that his feelings aren’t “real” rather than that he’s just mistaken or wrong? it just feels a bit too specific. is it possible that, at this point, cloud has feelings for aerith but maybe doesn’t understand them and that this aerith from the future knows this and also knows that theyre not real because of the zack situation? we all know that zack spoke about nothing else on the way back to midgar haha (“not interested? imma tell you anyway”) so why can’t cloud pick up his feelings if he can pick up everything else?
it also makes sense with aerith wondering what kind of feelings she has for cloud at the end of rebirth. she already said in remake that they’re not real, so the end of rebirth is when she realises that, surely? to me, it seemed as though she was realising they’re not romantic when they were talking in the church. but, regardless of zack, she’s already said they’re not real, so is there really ambiguity anyway about how she feels towards cloud?
overall, i was wondering whether it could be that cloud has feelings, or thinks he does, for both tifa and aerith in remake and rebirth but that, in part three, he realises (like aerith already has) that his feelings for aerith aren’t real and are a manifestation of zack’s feelings and that he only has feelings for tifa? this could also mean that if players showed a preference towards aerith in the first two games, it still makes sense in terms of the story because cloud had those thoughts and feelings at that time, even though they were misguided? this could explain why he was jealous about aerith finding another date in the gold saucer and why barrett told him to pick one. if he only has feelings for aerith because of zack, then it also means that he can’t be accused of simply settling for tifa after aerith dies because they were never his feelings to begin with, whereas his feelings for tifa were always his own. hope i make sense haha.
has anyone discussed before whether cloud’s feelings for aerith are only a manifestation of zack’s feelings?
it is possible though that i’m now just trying to convince myself to make myself feel better because zack……
i loved how every time zack or aerith looked at the sky, it showed the other looking back, and i loved how their lines mirrored each other. i didn’t really think too much about the zack x aerith x cloud triangle i created for myself until that marlene scene though… safe to say that marlene has now replaced tifa as my most disliked character haha (only joking)
my heart broke in two when i saw that scene, not to mention the next one where he has her bow wrapped around his hand and tries to save cloud because of aerith’s feelings towards him (would’ve been funny if he picked biggs after recalling that memory though
the final date that aerith had with cloud made me uncomfortable. i didn’t really get all the zack references, but when she mentioned “our place”, i was so surprised that she would say that to cloud. hasn’t he only been there with her like once or something? zack practically lived there. i’ve seen people deny that this date has any significance to the crisis core date, but when zack and biggs walk from near the church to sector 5, someone says in the background “a lot of good dates started right here…”, so i feel like the developers definitely had the crisis core date in mind.
in rebirth, i still gave all the preferable responses to aerith and the non-preferable responses to tifa because that’s how i’ve always played ff7 (and i didn’t consider zack since he wasn’t in the game much until the end). quite early on though, i found my 27-year dislike for tifa starting to change, and aerith even started to annoy me a bit, which really surprised me.
it seems more obvious to me than ever in remake and rebirth that cloud and tifa fit much better than cloud and aerith… zack and aerith also fit better than cloud and aerith (i bet cloud resents the day zack offered aerith that one date since she hasn’t stopped making everything a date since haha).
even though i supported cloud x aerith for 27 years and disliked tifa for the same amount of time, i just don’t think that i can deny that, in rebirth, cloud has clear feelings for tifa and that his feelings for aerith are more ambiguous. i think it’s a big deal that tifa and cloud kissed regardless of whether it was canon because final fantasy don’t hand out kisses too lightly. cloud also had the perfect opportunity to kiss aerith and didn’t take it (he initiated the kiss with tifa so i don’t think confidence was at play here, and why not kiss her if it’s not canon anyway? this was a very deliberate choice). i was upset for aerith when cloud wouldn’t sit next to her in the GS date, and i thought it was a bit odd for tifa and cloud to hold hands while aerith was singing if the song was meant to be about aerith’s romantic feelings for cloud (as some people have said).
does anyone else think that the song is about both cloud and zack in particular? i think that all the lines about the cobbled street could refer to cloud and that all the lines about promises and meeting again someday could refer to zack. cloud is literally stood right next to her when she writes the song, why does she need to wait for the day to meet him again? i also think cloud only made a promise to aerith at the end of the game and not before writing the song? i could be wrong about that, but i know for sure that, in the last conversation zack and aerith ever had, zack promised that he would see her again, and we know shes been waiting for at least 5 years since she never stopped writing letters. the flowers on the church floor surround aerith on stage when she sings the lines “Till the day that we meet again. At our place, just let me believe. In the chance that you'll come.” it’s in the developers interest not to be direct about it referring to zack if they intend to create suspense for part three regarding whether they’ll reunite.
i think (hope) aerith will walk/fall into the church in part three while zack is sitting there.. and i just hope for her sake that he sees her from the right angle
(i have a theory for what cloud says in the GS date to aerith, which i’ll post next!)
Rebirth plays on the illusion of the LT, but Welonz who doesn't know anything about FFVII except for the LT completely missed Aerith's feelings for Cloud until the church scene.
If you think about it like that then Aerith's line from Remake "if you think you did (fall in love with me), it's an illusion". What she's saying there is that you can fall for the illusion, but it's mostly a breaking down the 4th wall and she's talking not only to herself, but also to the players. The players see the prettiness, they see the dates, they see Cloud being gentle with her (not all times) and they isolate those moments and rely mostly on Aerith's feelings rather than Cloud's. However, because they see Aerith's interest in him, they also think that those same feelings are shared by Cloud... however Rebirth does show us when Cloud is interested by a girl, it shows us how he reacts to Tifa and their interactions, it shows us romance plot-driven between the two. Even bad answers to Tifa aren't that bad, compared to bad answers to everyone else (because just like in the OG, you can't be mean to Tifa).
There is a thematic with the LT that flies over a lot of heads: CA pushes the illusion, CT the reality, the truth. So CT is not always pretty, but it's grounded in reality and that's why Rebirth hits you with it because Tifa has an effect on Cloud that no one else has: Cloud relies on her to believe in himself, and this is why only her opinion matters in the NC scene in the OG. It's only through her eyes that he can be himself, why Aerith sends back the image of Zack, which is part of the illusion. To the players, the illusion relies on the heroxwhite mage, pink, introvertxextrovert type of pairing, Aerith has BIG scenes like the red dress reveal etc. so it makes an extra impact on the player. But it does crumble once you get to the core of FFVII and the Lifestream scene; Cloud is not a hero, Aerith thinks she moved on but maybe she didn't in the end, Cloud prefers his introvert childhood friend and indeed their dynamic works better - at least for introverts they do! Tifa still makes him do tons of things without pushing for it and respects his comfort zone, we see them grounding each other through PTSD episodes, we see them enjoying their intimate talks which always have Cloud go "we'll talk more later on". It's the guiding thread of the whole game, how Cloud wants to deepen his relationship with Tifa, how much they are rediscovering each other and I personally feel that's going to play a big part in p3 in the Lifestream scene.
And then chapter 14 does push big time the illusion, with Cloud literally creating an illusionary world where he saved Aerith - and I think that what he did is also what happened when he met Tifa: he created an illusionary world where he had Zack's role, because he was the figure he looked up to, the hero he wanted to become... for Tifa.
Cloud will have eventually to confront the reality, in the Lifestream and after, but I think the ending of Rebirth gave CA some closure in how it cannot happen because he simply doesn't see her that way, and maybe even she doesn't see him that way, although I do think her feelings for him are definitely romance-coded. She at least crushes on him, IMHO, but when she compared those feelings to the ones she has for Zack, it just doesn't hold a candle; Zack has way too much an impact on her compared to Cloud (there's also the thing that they dated for 2 years, when she knew Cloud for a big whooping 18 days).
For NTPK, I suggest you watch this special talk with Nojima, Uematsu and Nomura. Nojima explains very plainly what he meant with those lyrics (keep in mind though that he wrote them in JP and they are rather different than the EN version). It made me enjoy Aerith a lot more.
ViolaaFox
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Viola A. Fox
View attachment 16911
Have fun guys
EDIT: Also in case it's not clear, this is not a list i made for those who might lurk here and don't know my angle on this stuff yet. I just saw it in Twitter and brought it here to spice things up a little.
I don't even know where to start. wtf.
Are these the same people who wanted nothing to be changed in the story?