SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Graymouse]

One Cloud X Aerith argument that I always found hilarious when it is mentioned. Is the argument against the Zack and Aerith pairing, It is when Aerith says "Look Forward, Not backwards." Those very words are detrimental to the CLoud X Aerith pairing. Without you ever realizing it you are discrediting your own argument.

Yeah, I've noticed that one before and it really stumps me. Either we are moving on, which case Cloud should also move on from the girl he knew for a week, or we are not moving on, in which case Aerith shouldn't move on from Zack.

For some reason they only like defending moving on when it's from Zack, even though that was a 2 year relationship that Aerith wasn't over 5 years later, and Cloud/Aerith was a 1 week thing for which he felt nothing as far as we know but guilt 2 years later.

I guess when you are set in your ways one does not think that the same rule should apply to both situations. We can only move on when it is about Zack and Aerith. (2 plus year relationship) so it is alright for Aerith to move on to be with Cloud But, when it is about Aerith and Cloud (1 month relationship) Cloud suddenly is not allowed to move on from Aerith to be with Tifa. The math does not balance the equation at all. It has too many imaginary numbers involved.

 

[Eerie]

For LTD purpose, I shall point out that in Hojo’s lab, in French Aerith says “you came” using “vous”, which means she adresses everyone, but seeing she says it when both Cloud and Tifa are on screen, I think this is why they used vous, to include both Cloud and Tifa. I am not sure how the JP translates this scene though, which is implied.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Yeah, it looks like the fortune and good luck stuff isn't as important or prevalent in the Remake as it was in the OG.

Re: Aerith's behavior
So she begins to recreate the experiences she had with Zack with Cloud — "one date," flower picking, "I want to spend more time with you." At the same time, this Aerith also somehow knows certain things about the future, so she can probably sense that Cloud has some larger role to play in the fate of the Planet. Then she asks Cloud if he knows Zack, but she doesn't get the answer she wanted. She tells Cloud she must be bumming him out, but she's actually bumming herself out.

Wait a second.
She's treating Cloud as Zack's replacement, he's just a placeholder for her wish, and she knows that things will end badly?! That's worse than she just being inmature and wanting to have a bit of fun!
DAMN.

And at this point she's already attached. Aerith was a lonely kid; she probably didn't have many close friends as a child, so she latches herself onto Cloud (not to mention Tifa) when she meets them. So, I get it. I don't really like how she goes about it (i.e. putting obstacles in her house so Cloud can't leave I failed this minigame so many times) but, I get it.

Ugh, I disliked that too. WTF Aerith, I understand now why she didn't have any friends growing up! Imagine being a kid and a girl introduces herself and latches to you like that and she's everywhere you go! She's too intense sometimes, maybe Elmyra should have taught Aerith some social acceptable behaviour and not coddle her that much and keep coddling her well into her twenties.

Re: Gold Saucer, Aerith and Cloud have already had their date, no? In the game there's a point where Cloud's like, "I wanna get paid" and Aerith's like, "you're getting paid right now." So does that mean the only owed dates are Aerith/Tifa and Cloud/Tifa?

It looks like that, yes.
Maybe this time is Tifa who goes on a date with everybody?
But Aerith and Tifa must happen, I demand it!

 

[minami758]

Ugh, I disliked that too. WTF Aerith, I understand now why she didn't have any friends growing up! Imagine being a kid and a girl introduces herself and latches to you like that and she's everywhere you go! She's too intense sometimes, maybe Elmyra should have taught Aerith some social acceptable behaviour and not coddle her that much and keep coddling her well into her twenties.

Aww, cut her some slack. She's trying her best, lol.

For LTD purpose, I shall point out that in Hojo’s lab, in French Aerith says “you came” using “vous”, which means she adresses everyone, but seeing she says it when both Cloud and Tifa are on screen, I think this is why they used vous, to include both Cloud and Tifa. I am not sure how the JP translates this scene though, which is implied.

This is interesting. In Japanese she says 来てくれたんだ, so there are no pronouns, but I assume she's speaking to both of them. Cloud responds with ああ (aa), then Tifa says Aerith's name, and Aerith says Tifa's name. It's a nice moment between all three of them.

 

[Eerie]

Yes, looking at the picture, she's not talking to Cloud only, because the three of them are in the scene. This is why the French assumed "vous" I guess. But I remember Maiden talking about it as a clerith motif, and I just don't see it, not for this scene, because of how it happens. It amuses me though that this "you came and it's all that matters" is both a cloti and clerith motif lol. The girls are more similar than what it looks!

 

[Ruri]

@DutchDread

Yeah, that argument really doesn't sit well with me. I've heard that line before and it's not a good thing. Not everyone is good at outright saying no to people, when people are being clear that they don't want to do something, you shouldn't pressure them into it. Cloud was imo very adamant about getting back to sector 7, said it repeatedly, but Aerith simply ignored him or pressured him into complying. I felt really uncomfortable about it.

Fair point, Dutch. I do agree she was pushy and crossed a line on a personal level and I can't really excuse that behavior completely. Especially for myself as a person who can't say no, and I pay for it, it resonates very well with me.

I was trying to draw from Cloud's previous assertiveness in other situations in his capability to confidently say no. I got to him being adamant to get his money from Avalanche/Tifa because even then he got strung around for a bit until his natural softness towards Tifa made him bend and be more flexible about things. Which isn't really an example, and a very tiny one at that, of him saying no but more where he steps up to someone and puts his foot down and tells them what he wants in that moment instead of going along with things.

 

[Eerie]

I think, in chapter 3 with Tifa, Cloud is so adamant about money because he's trying to project himself as an adult, and what do adults do? They're responsible about money. I immediately thought that it's how someone who's just started on life would try to react to be "good" and on the safe side. So in ch3, he's trying to get that sorted out without taking in consideration how he feels exactly, especially since he's still having his "tough exterior" to crack - which it does in ch4, as Tifa immediately notices when she comes into his room to make sure he's not going to disappear without a word again.

 

[Strangelove]

i wish they had added some shenmue-esque elements where cloud gets his money but you make him spend it all on collecting capsule toys

 

[Master Bates]

But I honestly thought he badly needed the money to buy himself a new pair of underwear.

 

[Ryushikaze]

i wish they had added some shenmue-esque elements where cloud gets his money but you make him spend it all on collecting capsule toys

What are Matreria if not Gachapon of power?

 

[Strangelove]

you should have been able to buy those materia ices with the little summon things in them

patch this in, square

 

[looneymoon]

can't wait til we're scouring LTD tidbits in an outsourced FF7 mobile gatcha game

 

[Makoeyes987]

Imagine if Aerith showed up as an ally in Final Fantasy VII G-Bike.

...We'd be in real trouble.

Because then we would be doing that.

 

[DutchDread]

I think, in chapter 3 with Tifa, Cloud is so adamant about money because he's trying to project himself as an adult, and what do adults do? They're responsible about money. I immediately thought that it's how someone who's just started on life would try to react to be "good" and on the safe side. So in ch3, he's trying to get that sorted out without taking in consideration how he feels exactly, especially since he's still having his "tough exterior" to crack - which it does in ch4, as Tifa immediately notices when she comes into his room to make sure he's not going to disappear without a word again.

Maybe, I think it's mostly because that's just the start of his delusion of being a mercenary, and therefore, logically the point he'd still be most mercenary-ish. It steadily declines in the presence of Tifa and Avalanche, and is already basically gone by the time he gets to Aerith in the remake.

People often say that Cloud becomes himself with Aerith, but I've never put much stock in that, since, well, duh. Tifa caused his persona, avalanche is a terrorist organisation, and he's literally being a mercenary for them. Of course he'd start acting less like that if you remove him from that environment, but in the remake he basically gives up isntantly.

 

[MasterMoogle]

I thought it was really cool, that Tifa has one part of that earring and Cloud has the other.

The other earring was given to Cloud by Marle, who serves a similar function in Tifa's life as Claudia's dream scene serves in Cloud's life. Marle ships Cloti.

 

[MasterMoogle]

hmmmmm......okay wait I can make this connection......

So Caith Sith is controlled by Reeve. Reeve's mother lives in Midgar. Denzel stays with her for a while. Denzel is the love child of Aerith and Cloud. Denzel is the adopted child of Cloud and Tifa.

Caith Sith is a cloti shipper. He obviously only told that Clerith fortune to help Cloud realize he didn't want to marry Aerith.

Caith Sith also wears a red cap, the colour of Tifa's eyes, and a gold crown, the colour of Cloud's hair. Plus Tifa held a cat once and Cloud had a side quest searching for cats.

Edit: responding to Ody, I would say that Aerith's scene in remake is more plot relevant than the other 2, but she wasn't given any extra points this time. I think they might actually keep an equal point system. Also part of my understanding for pushing the gold saucer date was so players would have special scenes to fall in love with Aerith before she died. This time we have had an entire game to love her, so may be less needed.

Chronologically speaking, it's more likely Denzel is Zack and Aerith's kid

 

[DutchDread]

Chronologically speaking, it's more likely Denzel is Zack and Aerith's kid

Dude, holy, Imagine if they actually made that canon, that would be the biggest plot twist in history XD

Clerith shippers be like "well, that just proves that Aerith wanted Cloud to raise her child with her, Clerith confirmed" XD

 

[Ryushikaze]

Chronologically speaking, it's more likely Denzel is Zack and Aerith's kid

I remember a ridicukous shitpost i made years and years back about how Denzel was Cloud and Tifa's water tower baby.
It waa deliberately as dumb as it sounded.

 

[Sasseli]

Different topic, but it just occurred to me. The argument that Aerith is over Zack. I don’t really get it, because at the same time, it is proclaimed that Cloud isn’t allowed to be over Aerith. Isn’t that a kind of double-standard?
I mean, if Aerith can move forward (if indeed she can), then Cloud should be as much able to move forward. Right?

I hope this isn’t off-topic in any kind of way. It just started bugging me, I don’t know, why.

 

[Final_Heaven]

Different topic, but it just occurred to me. The argument that Aerith is over Zack. I don’t really get it, because at the same time, it is proclaimed that Cloud isn’t allowed to be over Aerith. Isn’t that a kind of double-standard?
I mean, if Aerith can move forward (if indeed she can), then Cloud should be as much able to move forward. Right?

I hope this isn’t off-topic in any kind of way. It just started bugging me, I don’t know, why.

Exactly. It goes against the story. Cloud is going to eventually move on (if you believe that he he hasn't already).

Basically Cloti:

 

[Ruri]

I think this is why you bump into people diminishing Zack's relationship to Aerith a lot too. It's either, the double standard argument: Aerith is allowed to move on from Zack but Cloud cannot move on from Aerith and proceeds to give you pictures of random flower fields, and diminish the C/T relationship post OG in order to support that. Or, watering down Aerith and Zack with quoting the OG: 'nothing serious' and she called him a 'ladies man' in order to push that interpretation that it wasn't on the same level as C/A. They're right. It was on a better level. I think the remake has done a good job of emphasizing that Aerith and Zack were serious and possibly there's still some story left for them both in this bizarre AU/AT. Maybe, but I know I'm not one of those particularly clutching my pearls at the prospect of Aerith and Zack getting some development.

 

[DutchDread]

Exactly. It goes against the story. Cloud is going to eventually move on (if you believe that he he hasn't already).

Basically Cloti:

One thing that makes me shiver though, he wasn't inevitable :S, he could be stopped, specifically by going back in time so I don't like this parallel

Is a good example though of why you shouldn't turn back decisions. I felt nothing when the snap happened, because I knew Marvel didn't have the balls to make it stick, and they didn't.
Also hope to god that they're not gonna bring Tony back somehow.

 

[LNK]

Wasn't Tseng going to deliver 80 something letters to Zack from Aerith? 80!? I wouldn't consider that a "not serious" relationship lol

 

[ForceStealer]

How did Tseng even get those anyway? I guess maybe Zack had like a P.O. Box at the Shinra Building?

 

[Cat on Mars]

Wasn't Tseng going to deliver 80 something letters to Zack from Aerith? 80!? I wouldn't consider that a "not serious" relationship lol

Aerith is persistent, I give her that.