SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[RhinoKart]

Yes, Cloud does have a hero complex (thanks to Tifa... lol). That's why I don't give too much credence to those scenes, even if I think that they are nice and shippy, because those you mentioned have been thought out by the devs like that (they literally answer each other, so it's totally done on purpose). It's ok to consider them shippy I mean, they are, but to me that's not the deep root of my own ship.

One thing that makes me feel like some of these moments are shippy is just their inclusion in general

To me asking if someone is OK really isn't a ship moment for anyone, whither it be for Tifa, Aerith, Barret or in this case Wedge.

If you watch Cloud he is really taking a look at Wedge to make sure that he isn't bleeding or something isn't really broken. I just think it just Cloud protecting and making sure that his friends are all good. Nothing more Nothing less.

Umm excuse me, why are you putting down my CloudxWedge OTP like that?!

But yeah you are totally right. Cloud is just a protective/friendly person, despite trying hard to not appear that way.

 

[MasterMoogle]

"Cloud becomes Aerith's bodyguard and fends off the Turk who attacks them" From "Second Chance Meeting" story digest/play by play/playback in the game (L2)

You mean the Turks who aren't actually a threat to her? The Turks who she has "dealt with before"?

The only person Cloud was defending during that scene was himself. Aerith was never under any threat.

This is why you don't rely on external material, especially when it contradicts what's in the game.

 

[Graymouse]

"Cloud becomes Aerith's bodyguard and fends off the Turk who attacks them" From "Second Chance Meeting" story digest/play by play/playback in the game (L2)

I am sorry but I feel that Cloud was forced into being her bodyguard and did not really agree to the terms of being her bodyguard in the first place. Of course this how I am viewing the scene. I don't think there is any romance in this at all.

 

[Maidenofwar]

It's not external material, it's in the game, from when you press L1, and it doesn't contradict anything, it's just a summary of the events that have taken place.

**

"Shall we mosey on over" "Let's"

"So what's next for you?" "A little bit of bodyguard work"

 

[Sasseli]

大丈夫です?

Spoiler

だいじょうぶですか Are you alright?

Isn't it just 大丈夫? ?
Adding ですか makes it formal speech.

 

[Ruri]

@MasterMoogle

The Kitase quote from the original was from me firstly. That was several pages ago and my post back then was using the basis of character concepts all the way back from creation. This is not what this thread is intended for and I did realize this a while back and I do apologize for it. It is very easy get off track in this thread but no excuses and all that.

The unique design of Aerith and Tifa as double heroines never changed though. It is just now more solidified with the remake and they both still have a romantic link with Cloud. One much greater than the other but not dismissing the other either.

 

[MasterMoogle]

It's not external material, it's in the game, from when you press L1, and it doesn't contradict anything.

**

"Shall we mosey on over" "Let's"

"So what's next for you?" "A little bit of bodyguard work"

The bodyguard angle seems like an inside joke, mostly on Aerith's part. Like I said, it's her framing. Cloud plays along. This is further made evident by the fact that:

1) Cloud doesn't mention the date.
2) Aerith refuses to be a damsel.
3) up to that point, the Turks were never a threat to Aerith.

It's only shippy in that it's an excuse for them to interact with eachother, IMO. And certainly, some shippy things happen during their travels together.

 

[Yumelinh]

My position is that there was something there, but nothing on the same level as what Cloud has with Tifa, and surely not enough to be called romantic love. Attraction? Sure. Affection? I could see that too.

Then I guess you weren't making your point very clear. It was just coming off as total refusal that there was anything btw these two. Like I personally agree with you about it being more of an attraction/favor/like something was starting there (for lack of better words from my side) than anything else, but even I couldn't feel this point in your posts. But at the same time, if people want to interpret it as love there's nothing much that can't be done to counter otherwise because whatever they truly felt there was simply left to player's interpretation. Also, attraction/affection in itself can be romantic in nature, so it isn't wrong to be interpreted as such.

The problem of course is that both of their feelings are being tainted by Zack.

It depends. In the beginning, yes, but Aerith did state her desire to meet the real Cloud, which means that she was able to see past Zack's shadow and was ready to try to move on, she ends up not having the time to do so, but she did voice her wish. As for Cloud, he never had Zack's feelings, only his memories, so It doesn't count for him.

Zack was really not big of a deal in OG, only for Aerith's side maybe, but that was it. Compilation/Remake changed that ofc. But in OG he was really more of a plot device than a character tbh ( and I'm saying this as someone who looooves Zack, but it's true)

 

[Sasseli]

I love how the Remake "One date" scene almost exactly mirrors the CC "One date" scene, which in turn was a reference to the OG in the first place.
But now you see the gestures and expressions and all and it's so heartbreaking that Aerith exactly mimics Zack while saying that.

And I did have a lasting impression of Zack even in the OG. His death scene with Cloud silently staring up in despair was too powerful to forget. Even if he was only a plot device then.

 

[minami758]

But now you see the gestures and expressions and all and it's so heartbreaking that Aerith exactly mimics Zack while saying that.

Aerith's JPN line of "I'm not sick of you yet" is "I want to spend more time with you," which is also a direct reference to Zack/CC, for what it's worth.

 

[Graymouse]

Isn't it just 大丈夫? ?
Adding ですか makes it formal speech.

I am not 100% on it but what I understand is yes, I think it really depends on who you are talking to. If you are talking to a family member, 大丈夫 should be fine. If you are talking to someone who has a "higher society class" 先輩 Senpai, means "upper class-man" you would add more formal parts of speech. This is done in formal settings such as schools and business offices.

In everyday speech, I don't think the Japanese use formal Japanese. Also, "desu ka" (kinda makes the statement into a question)

Again I am not the resident Japanese, I just know enough to be considered "dangerous" if you know what I mean. So, I could be completely wrong here.

 

[Sasseli]

Aerith's JPN line of "I'm not sick of you yet" is "I want to spend more time with you," which is also a direct reference to Zack/CC, for what it's worth.

You're right. That's one of many reasons im playing it in JPN. Translation and, of course, the voices. The more I hear the English voices the less I like them tbh (Cloud and a few others being the exceptions).

@Graymouse You don't need ですか to form a question, though. That's one of many great things about Japanese.
I studied it in university once, but alas, most of it is forgotten.

 

[MasterMoogle]

Then I guess you weren't making your point very clear. It was just coming off as total refusal that there was anything btw these two. Like I personally agree with you about it being more of an attraction/favor/like something was starting there (for lack of better words from my side) than anything else, but even I couldn't feel this point in your posts. But at the same time, if people want to interpret it as love there's nothing much that can't be done to counter otherwise because whatever they truly felt there was simply left to player's interpretation. Also, attraction/affection in itself can be romantic in nature, so it isn't wrong to be interpreted as such.

Probably because the LT rubs me the wrong way. I feel so bad for Aerith because she's always going to get the short end of the stick. I understand that Cloud isn't to blame for his issues, but it's not endearing. It's messed up.

Sometimes this comes through in my posts.

 

[Graymouse]

You're right. That's one of many reasons im playing it in JPN. Translation and, of course, the voices. The more I hear the English voices the less I like them tbh (Cloud and a few others being the exceptions).

@Graymouse You don't need ですか to form a question, though. That's one of many great things about Japanese.
I studied it in university once, but alas, most of it is forgotten.

You are right, you can use a slight uptick in your voice to do that. Also, you can figure it out by the context of what is being said as well. Japanese is such a romantic language that I really love! It is almost musical if you think about it.

Edited to add: I guess what I am trying to say is that I think Japanese is a melodic language.

 

[Yumelinh]

I love how the Remake "One date" scene almost exactly mirrors the CC "One date" scene, which in turn was a reference to the OG in the first place.
But now you see the gestures and expressions and all and it's so heartbreaking that Aerith exactly mimics Zack while saying that.

And I did have a lasting impression of Zack even in the OG. His death scene with Cloud silently staring up in despair was too powerful to forget. Even if he was only a plot device then.

Yes! This scene was really powerful!! But I always wished we could have seen more of him in OG, so in the end of the day, I was really happy when CC was announced. CC Zack was such a gift!! I love him!!

Aerith's JPN line of "I'm not sick of you yet" is "I want to spend more time with you," which is also a direct reference to Zack/CC, for what it's worth.

"I have 23 tiny wishes. But I'm sure you won't remember them all.
So I wrote them all into one.
I want to spend more time with you."

It was definitely a direct reference and I don't think I will ever recover from that

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.

This whole thing began with you saying "Cloud only knew Aerith for about 3 weeks. Maybe a bit less, or a bit more" as a refutation to this comment from Sasseli: "I do think that the creators intended for Aerith to fall in love with Cloud. No, they definitely did(there's too many quotes to deny it)."

Again, it is plain as day that your argument here was that this timeframe is too short for romantic love to form. Thus, you were applying an anecdotal-at-best claim for people in general to these characters in particular.

Are you done now with this pointless goose chase of deflecting?

No, he just let her frame the nature of their partnership while he just tagged along when they made their escape back to Sector 5. If you can point me to a specific quote where he agreed to be her bodyguard in exchange for a date, I'd love to hear it.

You're shifting the goal post now.

Your claim was that Cloud never agreed to be her bodyguard. I pointed out that he not only does as she requested, making sure they both escape to the rooftops, but he also says himself that he's going to be her bodyguard -- right after they get out of the church, Aerith asks him "So... what's next for you?" and he replies "A little bit of bodyguard work."

You were the one who quoted Kitase, who was talking about the original, if I recall. Neither you, nor I are the only ones guilty of bringing up the original, or the compilation, or external material.

I didn't say that you were. I've overlooked a good bit of it for the sake of not ripping a number of posts apart. Why are you so unwilling to stay on point in a conversation? =|

I said that if you're insisting on analyzing the original game like a standalone piece, take it where people aren't referencing developer input with every reasonable expectation that it be acknowledged ... rather than disrespectfully thrown back in their face the way you have been doing.

As far as I know, AC is still canon(correct me if I'm wrong). You can't just write it off because it came out a decade later.

You were the one applying guilt to (your claim) of the purpose of Aerith's role in the creation of the original game!!

"There's a lot of misunderstanding regarding Aerith's role in Cloud's story. Disregarding her role in the overarching story, her role in Cloud's story is simply to function as a source of guilt."

It isn't going unnoticed, by the way, that you discard the actual commentary of the developers when you don't like it ... while justifying your incorrect claims about the story in comments like this where you reference the development of the game ... but for which you don't have any actual developer annotations to cite.

Oh, and you're again ignoring the entirety of my post. To quote myself:

"After going back to some scenes in the original, I'll also mention Aerith's death is also meant to help Cloud reconnect with his emotions and realize he's not just a "puppet" as Seph calls him. "

Alright, let me slightly reword what I said then:

"No reasonable interpretation of Cloud's association with Aerith in the original game would be that it's all focused around guilt on the basis of that scene. =|"

Now can I get an actual reply there instead of yet another insulting, face-slapping, ineffectual attempt at deflection? =|

 

[Eerie]

While I'm at it, Hollow is totally Cloud's feelings towards Aerith:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264837269531160578

Sounds very romantic to me, mmh? It plays during sector 5 part of the game, so yeahhhhhhhh, have fun denying that.

 

[Graymouse]

Probably because the LT rubs me the wrong way. I feel so bad for Aerith because she's always going to get the short end of the stick. I understand that Cloud isn't to blame for his issues, but it's not endearing. It's messed up.

Sometimes this comes through in my posts.

Not to be melodramatic here, but in all honestly I think most of us here can agree to that. SE needs to end the whole LT thing in the FF7 Remake Project. I believe once this project is complete I think the Devs will retire and we will not get any more FF7 content for the foreseeable future. Hopefully when this is all said and done, there will be nothing left to add or to discuss and fans are just going to have to accept however it ends.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Also Cloud has a "I could stick around a bit" line in the church, he's really not being that put upon.

 

[Yumelinh]

While I'm at it, Hollow is totally Cloud's feelings towards Aerith:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264837269531160578

Sounds very romantic to me, mmh? It plays during sector 5 part of the game, so yeahhhhhhhh, have fun denying that.

There's actually a whole thread about w/ this one and more info about the creative aspect of the song. I personally thought it was about Aerith at first, but after reading all the info there, it seems more about a general song about all the things Cloud lost, including his own self.

Edit: I just saw you posted it there as well ^^

 

[Graymouse]

While I'm at it, Hollow is totally Cloud's feelings towards Aerith:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264837269531160578

Sounds very romantic to me, mmh? It plays during sector 5 part of the game, so yeahhhhhhhh, have fun denying that.

If I am reading the room correct, I think this is a joke. If so, ignore this.

I do believe it is from Clouds point of view, but I think it is more about Zack. Zack was Clouds BFF and you think of it that way, It will fall into line with what Nojima says in that interview. Zack was a very important person to Cloud. Since CC so I can see it that way. I don't think it is about Aerith, simply because Aerith hasn't died yet. So, not sure why Cloud would be Hollow at that point.

It was the background music in sector 5, but I think you guys are reading too much into that. Again that is just me.

BTW: When Cloud and company came through Sector 5 after the plate falls, is it still the background music? If so, than that proves my point, it wasn't just put there for the purpose of it being about Aerith. It was just put there as a background theme.

 

[Yeji738494]

It sounds like the devs themselves have different interpretations of hollow lol

 

[minami758]

If Cloud and Tifa get "Midgar Blues" then surely Cloud and Aerith get "Hollow," right?

In all honesty, I think Hollow is a bit harder to crack because it's a theme song for this particular game. Cloud could be "hollow" in many different ways at this point, and given the emphasis in the interview on "rain," I'm inclined to believe it's more about Cloud's "hollow" identity and the fact that Zack died (on a "barren wasteland"), leading to this false persona. Tifa also finds Cloud at the train station while it's raining, which is what triggers that persona.

But at the same time I could also see it alluding to Aerith's death, though she hasn't actually died at this point in the game yet, so I'm also not sure there. If Hollow were the theme song to the entire "Complete Remake" experience, then yeah I think it's mostly about Aerith, but if they have another theme song for the next game then it's probably not about Aerith, if that makes sense.

ETA: The musical composition has some similarities to "Price of Freedom," and while it does play in Sector 5, it does also play when Zack shows up at the end.

 

[Sasseli]

"A ballad for a man who lost something important to him"
- Zack
- Aerith (could be a reference to the OG future, what minami says)
- himself
- his home and family

If so, it means all those things together for sure. Cloud has lost a lot after all.

 

[Eerie]

It could be hard in that sense that Nojima could have written the lyrics while thinking about something, and then the devs using the music in sector 5, changing the meaning a bit. Honestly, I just think it's Aerith given it's the sector 5 music.