SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Yumelinh]

I really don't think Nakama is such a huge deal, Cloud calls Tifa Nakama too.

He doesnt call her weird, he's saying things are strange because she's acting differently and it's not her, and they are because

Spoiler

they are in a weird dying world, it's literally an alternate reality that is ending, Cloud senses there is something off with this place and Aerith behaviour

Edit; I shouldn't call the other world weird either Dx, I'm sure the others in that world wouldn't appreciate getting their world called weird either, they're just trying to carry on as normal even though the world is ending.

Edit 2; Aerith says this is "My dream", but part of it is her saying this, because I don't think she wants to disturb Cloud further and potentially freak him out by showing him the full truth of that world and everything really going on, the end of the Temple of the Ancient events in Rebirth also go towards explaining this.

I disagree a little bit with what you said about the 'nakama' line here :

Spoiler: Spoileeeers

It became a huge deal because of the context of the scene, ie. calling her a 'nakama' after what was supposed to be an intimate moment between them is a big deal. Aerith's reaction afterward also reinforces this interpretation. To put it in perspective, it would be the same as Cloud calling Tifa his 'nakama' after she said that "getting ahead of myself again" gs date line. Even if you consider the small dialogue change between HA/LA, Aerith still goes on explaining she 'likes' Cloud, but there's different types of 'liking'. That's not something you do when you want to tell the person you like them romantically but rather to let them know very clearly where your feelings stand.

Plus, I don't really think that Aerith somewhat replicating her date with Zack with Cloud paints her in a bad light, tbh. She did a similar thing in Remake/OG, so it goes in line with her character. I feel like she just wanted to have some quality time with Cloud before things go down, and she did that by replicating one of her most fond memories, only to realize at the end where hers and Cloud's feelings stand. I believe she really just wanted some closure before surrendering to her ultimate fate. It makes her very human imo.

Anyways, I don't like analysing things before I have the full picture. Doing that by cutscenes alone doesn't feel right. I can't wait to have my copy delivered already!!!

 

[eleamaya]

Cloud only kissed Tifa after concluding Aerith still has feelings for Zack

People who say this ignore Nibelheim scene where Cloud starts to remember Zack. And funny thing is, the convo he remembers is about Zack telling him about Aerith as his girlfriend. And because he think Zack was dead swept away in the river when the bridge collapse, he told Tifa that Aerith deserves to know. HE CARES.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Well, it's because people say Aerith was using Cloud as stand in the entire time, Remake, Rebirth, etc, all the multiple dates, etc just so she can use people to figure out where she stands, hurting numerous others or in the chance they might be hurt, which paints her in bad light.

 

[faefolk]

People who say this ignore Nibelheim scene where Cloud starts to remember Zack. And funny thing is, the convo he remembers is about Zack telling him about Aerith as his girlfriend. And because he think Zack was dead swept away in the river when the bridge collapse, he told Tifa that Aerith deserves to know. HE CARES.

Yeah I feel like people that are still saying that crap have not actually watched or played the Nibelheim chapter - because that puts that whole conversation in context.
Also

Spoiler

he asks Aerith directly if she still likes Zack there and she says 'maybe' so it's not that weird for Cloud to assume that the maybe is a yes. Also the GS is after Gongaga and Nibelheim when he was already trying to shoot his shot

so I really don't get why people are trying to say he's just being jealous.

Now Aeriths feelings are definitely something up for interpretation. But the other two have pretty clear feelings imo.

 

[faefolk]

Well, it's because people say Aerith was using Cloud as stand in the entire time, Remake, Rebirth, etc, all the multiple dates, etc just so she can use people to figure out where she stands, hurting numerous others or in the chance they might be hurt, which paints her in bad light.

Let's be real though - unless you pick her for the GS - the only non optional 'date' is the dream sequence. Its not that weird or bad that she's trying to figure out her feelings after not having closure with Zack at all.

What does paint her in a bad light imho is that she's very aware of Tifas feelings for Cloud and kind of is mean about it.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

People who say this ignore Nibelheim scene where Cloud starts to remember Zack. And funny thing is, the convo he remembers is about Zack telling him about Aerith as his girlfriend. And because he think Zack was dead swept away in the river when the bridge collapse, he told Tifa that Aerith deserves to know. HE CARES.

I nearly cried when he remembered Zack ( this is geniune memory ) ~

My interpretation on Cloud's memory Zack got swept away is JENOVA luring Aerith closer ~ by him remembering Zack would assure that he will tell this to Aerith hence ( he will bring her to forgotten city to her fate ) -- buut that just me~

It became a huge deal because of the context of the scene

- exactly my point! This is supposed to be 'their moment' and JP response is supeb

but SENA kills it damned ~

 

[Yumelinh]

Well, it's because people say Aerith was using Cloud as stand in the entire time, Remake, Rebirth, etc, all the multiple dates, etc just so she can use people to figure out where she stands, hurting numerous others or in the chance they might be hurt, which paints her in bad light.

Don't pay too much attention to what these people are saying. At the end of the day, they just don't like Aerith and will look for anything to make her look bad. Yeah, Aerith has flaws, but so do Tifa, Cloud, and the rest of the team. It doesn't make them terrible, it makes them interesting and human. People will always nitpick things, but what is ultimately true is that the devs never intended for Aerith's character to be seen as a terrible person. I'm 100% sure of that.

 

[A-to-Z]

Well, it's because people say Aerith was using Cloud as stand in the entire time, Remake, Rebirth, etc, all the multiple dates, etc just so she can use people to figure out where she stands, hurting numerous others or in the chance they might be hurt, which paints her in bad light.

Spoiler

But even if that was true, cloud isn’t being hurt though? Sure sometimes her actions confuses and bewilders him, but he literally doesn’t mind for the most part. In fact, he appreciates her presence because they’re friends.

Aerith isn’t selfish, if she’s doing those things, she’s doing them without ill intent. She just wants to spend time with people, live life to the fullest and get to know them by heart. I don’t blame her for wanting clarity because it’s part of the process of moving on. And that’s her character arc. She wanted to move on from loving zack romantically, so why can’t she move on from loving cloud romantically? Cloud, who painfully reminds her of zack?

And ngl most scenes where aerith “feeds” the love triangle where it seems she’s ‘betraying tifa’ can sometimes be attributed to dramatized script localization, so i always take them with a grain of salt. I know she’s a flirty and affectionate character, and this isn’t exclusive to zack and cloud, she even referred to dating tifa at one point in remake (I haven’t seen that scene where she’s kind of mean about cloti being a thing though, is it in rebirth?)

Also i wasn’t trying to hurt your feelings, so i apologize if you felt offended

 

[faefolk]

Don't pay too much attention to what these people are saying. At the end of the day, they just don't like Aerith and will look for anything to make her look bad. Yeah, Aerith has flaws, but so do Tifa, Cloud, and the rest of the team. It doesn't make them terrible, it makes them interesting and human. People will always nitpick things, but what is ultimately true is that the devs never intended for Aerith's character to be seen as a terrible person. I'm 100% sure of that.

Lmao look I'm not gonna lie - I liked her in remake for real. But I did not enjoy her in Rebirth. She has some decent moments with the Ancient stuff and I really enjoyed her scene with Tseng and her dynamic with Nanaki but I feel like she low key turned into one of those weird girls who love anime so much they try to overdo it and turn into weirdos. I was actually super disappointed because I loved where they were going with her in remake. Idk what happened but it's not that I went into the game being like 'man I hate Aerith' it's that I genuinely think this game painted a really off putting picture of her.

 

[faefolk]

Gonna follow that up with why I don't like Aerith in rebirth so much too. I genuinely found it off putting how much they made her focus on romance stuff. Like girl, the world is going to shit. Please stop.

Literally at a picture of Jessie, Clouds friend who passed away - she starts making it about romance and asking if she was his girlfriend and not accepting his answer? Which just honestly seemed disrespectful and out of place. That could have been a place for them to have meaningful dialogue and just nada. And after the clock tower when she says they were on a date and latches on to his arm and he looks super uncomfortable. Just like idk man. Getting weird about Cloud giving the flower (which she told him to give to his girlfriend) to Tifa etc etc

I honestly hope some of it was mistranslation because it just made her seem shallow and not very considerate.

 

[Hix]

I really don't think Nakama is such a huge deal

Spoiler

I think whether Cloud calling her "nakama" is a huge deal or not for the player doesn't matter much as it clearly was a huge deal for Aerith. Her reaction is that of being put in her place - this is what we are, but not more - she's disappointed.

Having said that, it's also clear this closure is exactly what was being aimed at with the entire scene. She's about to die, she knows it, I'm sure a part of her at least doesn't want to bow out without knowing whether her feelings were real. From Aerith's perspective, following this, she's able to move on emotionally just as she's about to (quite literally) move on physically.

At the same time, recreating that scene from Crisis Core reveals that the type of like she has for Cloud is fundamentally different than the one she had - and still has - for Zack.

 

[eleamaya]

About Aerith's dream date, I'm curious about the sequence and what the story want to tell

Spoiler

Zack is leaving Aerith's house to get to Biggs. He thinks of what Marlene said and feel a bit heartbroken here. Then, at the same time Cloud wakes up on wheel chair. The same spot we're ever shown in previous chapter that Cloud has vision or dream he saw her (in Zack's world) sleeping on bed. As they go out, it's the same sky with the rift. No Elmyra who has promised Zack that she won't let Aerith snuck out the house. Means, Sephiroth is gonna kill her and that's what Zack want to prevent. Aerith's date is like confirming what Zack is feeling if she liked Cloud. Their date is messed up, they aren't like couple. Cloud even doesn't know what Aerith means by "our place." It turns out that Sephiroth is actually lurking what Aerith is doing there as she hears his voice and see his black feather.

After meeting Biggs and escape from the reactor sector 6, Zack goes to the church, sitting on the stairs outside, Sephiroth suddenly show up, about entering the church, and throw Zack away. At the same time, Cloud & Aerith is having conversation inside but Zack dunno they're inside, he dunno Aerith's feeling for Cloud is romantically rejected because for him, she's a 'nakama' that she also question if her liking him is romantic or not. Sephiroth enters the church.

When Zack meet Cloud and fight with him in Edge of Creation, he doesnt know Aerith is killed by yelling "Save her!" to Cloud when they're separated. Zack returns to his dying world, in the church where previously we see Aerith was rejected by Cloud, and he feels her presence. Then that world is about to be destroyed by meteor. A kind of magic that symbolize Aerith's pink ribbon protect Zack here (I wonder where Zack lost the ribbon he tied on his hand when about to meet Biggs, though). His world then collapses.

Zack wake up in the church as if it's all just a dream. Which world does he exist now?

If it was the same world where he leaves Aerith's house, he'd return to check if she was still there. But... perhaps, this is the real Lifestream where he's supposed to rest. He chimed about the world unite again someday, perhaps meeting Cloud, led by the yellow flowers as the cinematic angle shoot it. However, the flowers is Aerith's favorite flowers (Elmyra talks to him), the church is her favorite place (where they're used to date), so it's symbolic that he also wish for reunite with her. If he met Aerith here, that means she wakes up, and he knows that means she has died. Though if he could, he would take back his life. And that means, he would take back her love (although he still dunno how Aerith's date with Cloud ends that symbolize she still love him).

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Lmao look I'm not gonna lie - I liked her in remake for real. But I did not enjoy her in Rebirth.

- I geniunely try to look at it on all sides but one thing puzzles me is flower thing she told Cloud "never to regift a present from a girl". She's a puzzle really it a bit hard to read her if this is flirting or friendship.

Spoiler

Aerith isn’t selfish, if she’s doing those things, she’s doing them without ill intent. She just wants to spend time with people, live life to the fullest and get to know them by heart.

• this is one way to look at it~
• although I have to admit some of her actions are taken by a grain of salt. @eleamaya said on other post she does have flaws and I somehow wanna accept those flaws too.

 

[faefolk]

- I geniunely try to look at it on all sides but one thing puzzles me is flower thing she told Cloud "never to regift a present from a girl". She's a puzzle really it a bit hard to read her if this is flirting or friendship.

Me too! I don't like the 'lets hate this Aerith because I prefer Tifa' and vice versa people do with the shipping fandom. I honestly just view them as seperate people and seperate relationship dynamics. I ship Cloti because they're dynamic feels more natural, more based in reality and makes most narrative sense to me - not because I like the characters more. Because there are definitely things that bother me about Tifa and Cloud also.

But I honestly have just found Aerith to be kind of just immature and irritating in a lot of rebirth and way, way prefered her in remake. I don't understand or connect with her character in this game. She just feels so scattered (which tbh I'm wondering if that might be intentional?)
And yeah the flower thing confused the heck out of me. Because in remake she had such a different response. Tbh at this point I feel like Sephi is talking about Aerith when he's like 'Don't let her fool you' because honestly who is this character? :')

 

[thetriplerhyme]

But I honestly have just found Aerith to be kind of just immature and irritating in a lot of rebirth and way, way prefered her in remake. I don't understand or connect with her character in this game. She just feels so scattered (which tbh I'm wondering if that might be intentional?)

- Zack somehow thought her these things.. She's a different person in TOTP if you havent' read that book yet ~ I'm still in middle of reading her chapter ( cuz I wanna know her for reaal )

And yeah the flower thing confused the heck out of me. Because in remake she had such a different response.

- i heard it SENA stryking again~ a miscommunication on translation seems that's her response to chap 14 on Tifa's resolution ( FF7REMAKE). She found out that Tifa's a bit upset he hid Aerith and flower is from her garden.

that flower technically is a present from Aerith on first meeting with Cloud. hehe ( just found out today)
but Cloud lmao wanted to look cool he gave it to Tifa.

 

[Yumelinh]

- exactly my point! This is supposed to be 'their moment' and JP response is supeb

but SENA kills it damned ~

I don't think it does, tbh. Even though the EN version differs from the JP line and is less direct as a result, and let's say you also add the dialogue change between HA/LA into the mix, it ultimately doesn't affect the conclusion that Aerith reaches in the end, as @Hix explained very well in their post above. It's not just what Cloud says, but Aerith's response to it that makes this scene more significant, imo.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

@Yumelinh I agree the point is the same but a most direct translation would nail it

Imagine if we heard Cloud says "We're friends" after Aerith clarify on possible 'next date'
and Aerith's response would make sense " At least I know now-where you and I stand, I mean"

by SENA changing the line to "I mean, why not?" - an ambiguous line if you ask me

 

[Maidenofwar]

They probably don't want Clerith to go home xD

My family came to visit, so I can't say anything more too much right now, apologies.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

@Yumelinh I agree the point is the same but a most direct translation would nail it

Imagine if we heard Cloud says "We're friends" after Aerith clarify on possible 'next date'
and Aerith's response would make sense " At least I know now-where you and I stand, I mean"

by SENA changing the line to "I mean, why not?" - an ambiguous line if you ask me

Out of context, "sure, why not?" doesn't reflect the same thing as "we're friends". In context however, I can definitely see what they were going for, which the key in understanding it is in Aerith's response, which is the whole point of this exchange to begin with. Cloud isn't saying "we're friends" as a declaration of friendzoning (or something that is naturally said in ENG in response to what Aerith even asked), but rather by the fact he's treating this encounter as something casual, and not nearly as important as Aerith is wanting it to be or be indicative of. This so much that you could easily just combine the two lines, and it would make even more sense. (Which often happens with ENG and JPN).

Also, you keep saying SENA. I haven't seen the credits, but chances are, the translators for this game were not at the USA office. I know what you're trying to say, which is just to refer to the ENG translators, but it's literally the wrong thing and causes a lot of misinformation when using that term wrongly.

 

[Yumelinh]

@Yumelinh I agree the point is the same but a most direct translation would nail it

Imagine if we heard Cloud says "We're friends" after Aerith clarify on possible 'next date'
and Aerith's response would make sense " At least I know now-where you and I stand, I mean"

by SENA changing the line to "I mean, why not?" - an ambiguous line if you ask me

But I agreed with you that it is less direct than in JP , however, the result remains the same in the end i.e. Aerith reaches the same conclusion, and Cloud is clueless as ever.

I would even add that, if you interpret it within the context of the other cutscenes, and now that we have the GS Dates for comparison to show how Cloud can respond and read romantic situations when he feels the same, this whole sequence being shown right between the line of intimacy and friendship, and having Aerith confessing only to directly explain what type of liking she was talking about, further proves the point that this ultimately wasn't supposed to be seen as a confession between two people in love, but as a conclusion that yes, they like each other a lot, but it isn't that liking you feel from someone romantically.

 

[JaeKony]

But I agreed with you that it is less direct than in JP , however, the result remains the same in the end i.e. Aerith reaches the same conclusion, and Cloud is clueless as ever.

I would even add that, if you interpret it within the context of the other cutscenes, and now that we have the GS Dates for comparison to show how Cloud can respond and read romantic situations when he feels the same, this whole sequence being shown right between the line of intimacy and friendship, and having Aerith confessing only to directly explain what type of liking she was talking about, further proves the point that this ultimately wasn't supposed to be seen as a confession between two people in love, but as a conclusion that yes, they like each other a lot, but it isn't that liking you feel from someone romantically.

I agree with you on this take. Despite SENA’s changes, their conversation (in both the LA and HA version of the church scene) end the same way with Aerith distinguishing between liking someone versus liking someone romantically.

I’m curious tho, is this scene Aerith telling Cloud that she’s confused about her feelings for him? Or is it her firmly telling him that she doesn’t see him in that way?

 

[MelodicEnigma]

But I agreed with you that it is less direct than in JP , however, the result remains the same in the end i.e. Aerith reaches the same conclusion, and Cloud is clueless as ever.

I would even add that, if you interpret it within the context of the other cutscenes, and now that we have the GS Dates for comparison to show how Cloud can respond and read romantic situations when he feels the same, this whole sequence being shown right between the line of intimacy and friendship, and having Aerith confessing only to directly explain what type of liking she was talking about, further proves the point that this ultimately wasn't supposed to be seen as a confession between two people in love, but as a conclusion that yes, they like each other a lot, but it isn't that liking you feel from someone romantically.

Yup, that's how I feel basically. It's Cloud really not being in the same tempo that Aerith wants him to be at. The ENG line is really the same, but that depends on how people understand the purpose and functionality of Cloud's response.

I agree with you on this take. Despite SENA’s changes

I'll be a broken record at this point. Lol

 

[Hix]

I’m curious tho, is this scene Aerith telling Cloud that she’s confused about her feelings for him? Or is it her firmly telling him that she doesn’t see him in that way?

Spoiler

Given the context, it seems to be she's saying "I like you a lot, but I see now that I don't like you in a romantic way"

There would be no need to have worded it that way if she was merely saying she was confused and, while Cloud is clearly exceedingly bewildered by the whole thing (and Aerith's behaviour "all day") he too basically confirms he really likes her, but not in a romantic way - hence her initial reaction.

In short, if there was any confusion there from Remake and Rebirth to that point, it seems to now have been resolved and they "know exactly where they stand"

 

[Yumelinh]

Out of context, "sure, why not?" doesn't reflect the same thing as "we're friends". In context however, I can definitely see what they were going for, which the key in understanding it is in Aerith's response, which is the whole point of this exchange to begin with. Cloud isn't saying "we're friends" as a declaration of friendzoning (or something that is naturally said in ENG in response to what Aerith even asked), but rather by the fact he's treating this encounter as something casual, and not nearly as important as Aerith is wanting it to be or be indicative of. This so much that you could easily just combine the two lines, and it would make even more sense. (Which often happens with ENG and JPN).

Also, you keep saying SENA. I haven't seen the credits, but chances are, the translators for this game were not at the USA office. I know what you're trying to say, which is just to refer to the ENG translators, but it's literally the wrong thing and causes a lot of misinformation when using that term wrongly.

Pretty much this! Cloud is clueless as ever there. This isn't him confessing or friendzoning Aerith at all, but rather him being completely oblivious to what Aerith was trying to do there and acting/responding to her flirtatious nature like he always did. But the point is exactly this: he is seeing her as he always did i.e. as a friend. Even so, Aerith still tells him (and the players) her feelings because she, too, has come to her own conclusion. She's finally able to get some closure about this.

 

[JaeKony]

Spoiler

Given the context, it seems to be she's saying "I like you a lot, but I see now that I don't like you in a romantic way"

There would be no need to have worded it that way if she was merely saying she was confused and, while Cloud is clearly exceedingly bewildered by the whole thing (and Aerith's behaviour "all day") he too basically confirms he really likes her, but not in a romantic way - hence her initial reaction.

In short, if there was any confusion there from Remake and Rebirth to that point, it seems to now have been resolved and they "know exactly where they stand"

Thanks for your input. If what you say is true, then those lines to Cloud are a really great parallel to Zack’s earlier scene with Marlene.

After talking to Marlene, Zack seems dejected at the possibility that Aerith now loves Cloud. To add insult to injury, Aerith seems to be taking Cloud around the same way Zack and Aerith’s first date went.

At the end, however, Aerith tells Cloud that him that she likes him but doesn’t like him and she can’t replace Zack.

I kind of hope that this scene (and the ending of Rebirth) truly remains a bookend for Cloud and Aerith dynamics, because it’s a really good neutral conclusion for both Zerith/Clerith shippers now that I think about it. Cloud/Aerith shippers can argue that Aerith would have fallen completely in love with Cloud if they had more time while Zack/Aerith shippers can argue that Aerith found out she could never replace Zack.

Although tbh, I’m sure we will definitely get more Zack/Aerith content in Part 3 if they truly want to link up to AC in the end.