@Yumelinh I agree the point is the same but a most direct translation would nail it
Imagine if we heard Cloud says "We're friends" after Aerith clarify on possible 'next date'
and Aerith's response would make sense " At least I know now-where you and I stand, I mean"
by SENA changing the line to "I mean, why not?" - an ambiguous line if you ask me
But I agreed with you that it is less direct than in JP , however, the result remains the same in the end i.e. Aerith reaches the same conclusion, and Cloud is clueless as ever.
I would even add that, if you interpret it within the context of the other cutscenes, and now that we have the GS Dates for comparison to show how Cloud can respond and read romantic situations when he feels the same, this whole sequence being shown right between the line of intimacy and friendship, and having Aerith confessing only to directly explain what type of liking she was talking about, further proves the point that this ultimately wasn't supposed to be seen as a confession between two people in love, but as a conclusion that yes, they like each other a lot, but it isn't that liking you feel from someone romantically.
But I agreed with you that it is less direct than in JP , however, the result remains the same in the end i.e. Aerith reaches the same conclusion, and Cloud is clueless as ever.
I would even add that, if you interpret it within the context of the other cutscenes, and now that we have the GS Dates for comparison to show how Cloud can respond and read romantic situations when he feels the same, this whole sequence being shown right between the line of intimacy and friendship, and having Aerith confessing only to directly explain what type of liking she was talking about, further proves the point that this ultimately wasn't supposed to be seen as a confession between two people in love, but as a conclusion that yes, they like each other a lot, but it isn't that liking you feel from someone romantically.
I agree with you on this take. Despite SENA’s changes, their conversation (in both the LA and HA version of the church scene) end the same way with Aerith distinguishing between liking someone versus liking someone romantically.
I’m curious tho, is this scene Aerith telling Cloud that she’s confused about her feelings for him? Or is it her firmly telling him that she doesn’t see him in that way?
But I agreed with you that it is less direct than in JP , however, the result remains the same in the end i.e. Aerith reaches the same conclusion, and Cloud is clueless as ever.
I would even add that, if you interpret it within the context of the other cutscenes, and now that we have the GS Dates for comparison to show how Cloud can respond and read romantic situations when he feels the same, this whole sequence being shown right between the line of intimacy and friendship, and having Aerith confessing only to directly explain what type of liking she was talking about, further proves the point that this ultimately wasn't supposed to be seen as a confession between two people in love, but as a conclusion that yes, they like each other a lot, but it isn't that liking you feel from someone romantically.
Yup, that's how I feel basically. It's Cloud really not being in the same tempo that Aerith wants him to be at. The ENG line is really the same, but that depends on how people understand the purpose and functionality of Cloud's response.
I’m curious tho, is this scene Aerith telling Cloud that she’s confused about her feelings for him? Or is it her firmly telling him that she doesn’t see him in that way?
Given the context, it seems to be she's saying "I like you a lot, but I see now that I don't like you in a romantic way"
There would be no need to have worded it that way if she was merely saying she was confused and, while Cloud is clearly exceedingly bewildered by the whole thing (and Aerith's behaviour "all day") he too basically confirms he really likes her, but not in a romantic way - hence her initial reaction.
In short, if there was any confusion there from Remake and Rebirth to that point, it seems to now have been resolved and they "know exactly where they stand"
Out of context, "sure, why not?" doesn't reflect the same thing as "we're friends". In context however, I can definitely see what they were going for, which the key in understanding it is in Aerith's response, which is the whole point of this exchange to begin with. Cloud isn't saying "we're friends" as a declaration of friendzoning (or something that is naturally said in ENG in response to what Aerith even asked), but rather by the fact he's treating this encounter as something casual, and not nearly as important as Aerith is wanting it to be or be indicative of. This so much that you could easily just combine the two lines, and it would make even more sense. (Which often happens with ENG and JPN).
Also, you keep saying SENA. I haven't seen the credits, but chances are, the translators for this game were not at the USA office. I know what you're trying to say, which is just to refer to the ENG translators, but it's literally the wrong thing and causes a lot of misinformation when using that term wrongly.
Pretty much this! Cloud is clueless as ever there. This isn't him confessing or friendzoning Aerith at all, but rather him being completely oblivious to what Aerith was trying to do there and acting/responding to her flirtatious nature like he always did. But the point is exactly this: he is seeing her as he always did i.e. as a friend. Even so, Aerith still tells him (and the players) her feelings because she, too, has come to her own conclusion. She's finally able to get some closure about this.
Given the context, it seems to be she's saying "I like you a lot, but I see now that I don't like you in a romantic way"
There would be no need to have worded it that way if she was merely saying she was confused and, while Cloud is clearly exceedingly bewildered by the whole thing (and Aerith's behaviour "all day") he too basically confirms he really likes her, but not in a romantic way - hence her initial reaction.
In short, if there was any confusion there from Remake and Rebirth to that point, it seems to now have been resolved and they "know exactly where they stand"
Thanks for your input. If what you say is true, then those lines to Cloud are a really great parallel to Zack’s earlier scene with Marlene.
After talking to Marlene, Zack seems dejected at the possibility that Aerith now loves Cloud. To add insult to injury, Aerith seems to be taking Cloud around the same way Zack and Aerith’s first date went.
At the end, however, Aerith tells Cloud that him that she likes him but doesn’t like him and she can’t replace Zack.
I kind of hope that this scene (and the ending of Rebirth) truly remains a bookend for Cloud and Aerith dynamics, because it’s a really good neutral conclusion for both Zerith/Clerith shippers now that I think about it. Cloud/Aerith shippers can argue that Aerith would have fallen completely in love with Cloud if they had more time while Zack/Aerith shippers can argue that Aerith found out she could never replace Zack.
Although tbh, I’m sure we will definitely get more Zack/Aerith content in Part 3 if they truly want to link up to AC in the end.
Something that I believe explains Aerith’s different characterisation from how she was in Remake to how she now is in Rebirth
It was strongly implied in Remake’s Chapter 17, Deliverance from Chaos, that each time the Whispers made contact with Aerith she lost more and more of her foresight, or ability to be able to either see or perceive the future. By Remake’s end this is pretty much confirmed by “The Unknown Journey…” title drop at the end. I now believe it isn’t an unknown journey per se to us as the audience, but now it is an unknown journey for Aerith, who up until this point in Remake’s story, gave hints as to her knowing her fate but also outcomes of other scenarios from the future (such as the Sector 7 plate collapse).
Very early on in Rebirth, Aerith confirms to Tifa that she no longer can see the future, or has any of the foreknowledge about how their journey will play out nor events that happened in the past (Tifa asks Aerith about Cloud’s whereabouts in the five years following Nibelheim, thinking Aerith might know, given she’d established foresight to Tifa at least twice during the events of Remake).
In Red XIII’s Gold Saucer date, he too confirms that he and Aerith lost their foreknowledge.
So given all that, it greatly informs how Aerith acts in Remake, as she has knowledge of both past and future events, and this is seen in her interactions with Cloud and Tifa, and others too, but I believe most strongly with them two. Red XIII and Marlene obviously as well.
But without that knowledge, and with everything now unknown and confusing to her, Aerith in Rebirth is very much the Aerith we know from the OG. She isn’t Remake Aerith who had knowledge of how the OG’s events play out. She’s now almost been reverted back to the original Aerith.
The Aerith who was “interested in the love triangle between herself, Cloud, and Tifa”. She’s seen as much more forward, and takes more initiative, in her attempts and desires to be able to determine the nature of her feelings, Cloud’s feelings, and that of their relationship.
Aerith having no knowledge of other events also informs her attitude regarding Zack. If she was Remake Aerith, she would 100% know Zack’s fate, and survival in the other world. She doesn’t seem to her, which is why her Gold Saucer date with Cloud is almost exactly the same verbatim to her original date from 1997. It’s notably different to her resolution scene from Remake in my opinion.
Of course towards the end of Rebirth, Aerith becomes more aware of her fate, or Destiny, or however it would be more appropriate to frame it as. She knows she is going to die. The circumstances and context for this are still a bit vague to me, but essentially even with this knowledge, this isn’t her becoming omnipotent again like she was in Remake. Because her dream date in Sector 5 with Cloud is very much in line with Rebirth Aerith wanting to get closure and understanding of the nature of hers and Cloud’s relationship, especially given she knows now how little time they have left together.
To sum up as this is getting essay length (my apologies) this serves to make Aerith more of the flawed, but lovable and relatable and more dynamic character she was in the original. Not to say she wasn’t all that in Remake, but her being all knowing could only be taken so far in the wider narrative, and things are convoluted enough.
By her having this unknown journey, and arc of wanting to figure things out for herself (as it was in the original) makes for a more compelling story personally.
Last thing, I find it notable, that Aerith has her Gold Saucer date more closely match the original than anybody else’s, whereas the others are more further along development wise in the personal arcs of their characters (Tifa’s especially).
I believe Aerith’s Gold Saucer date acts as the strong foreshadowing it was in the original. There’s only so much time, and development left for this character. Her story is nearly coming to an end. Whereas for the others, there’s still a lot more left to go with them and their personal arcs, so their Gold Saucer dates are planting those narrative seeds that I believe will pay off in Part 3.
Come to think of it, this dream sequence is much more LTD-killing than the CT date kiss. We never had a similar scene in the OG, so when Aerith died, we didn't know where her feelings stood or how Cloud felt about her before the Lifestream scene happened. It was left for interpretation, which resulted in all sorts of conclusions and theories. This time around, we got this sequence that serves as much as a farewell and a conclusive answer to the question OG left for interpretation, and it all happens before she dies this time.
That said, I don't believe the LTD is dead per se, and we still have Part 3, so a lot can change, but it's definitely much more clear in terms of direction and intentions.
Come to think of it, this dream sequence is much more LTD-killing than the CT date kiss. We never had a similar scene in the OG, so when Aerith died, we didn't know where her feelings stood or how Cloud felt about her before the Lifestream scene happened. It was left for interpretation, which resulted in all sorts of conclusions and theories. This time around, we got this sequence that serves as much as a farewell and a conclusive answer to the question OG left for interpretation, and it all happens before she dies this time.
That said, I don't believe the LTD is dead per se, and we still have Part 3, so a lot can change, but it's definitely much more clear in terms of direction and intentions.
The LTD will never die. This does not apply to all but plenty of shippers, both Clerith and Cloti, will always interpret dialogue from that lens. But the opposite is also true in that they will disregard information that conflicts with their reading.
Zack and Aerith/Cloud and Tifa could have children and it still wouldn’t matter. Because Clerith shippers in droves will say it only happened because Aerith died and Tifa won by default.
Likewise, plenty of Cloti shippers will deny that Cloud ever had romantic feelings for Aerith, which is just not true.
Mate, I am so with you on this. Nobody deserves a happy reunion and ending more than these two, honestly, given how selfless they have been throughout the compilation. Yes, I know Aerith comes across a bit selfish in Rebirth but she still makes the ultimate sacrifice in the end. And Zack does the same. They both clearly haven't moved on from each other, it's just waiting for the devs to connect the dots they've made.
Something that I believe explains Aerith’s different characterisation from how she was in Remake to how she now is in Rebirth
It was strongly implied in Remake’s Chapter 17, Deliverance from Chaos, that each time the Whispers made contact with Aerith she lost more and more of her foresight, or ability to be able to either see or perceive the future. By Remake’s end this is pretty much confirmed by “The Unknown Journey…” title drop at the end. I now believe it isn’t an unknown journey per se to us as the audience, but now it is an unknown journey for Aerith, who up until this point in Remake’s story, gave hints as to her knowing her fate but also outcomes of other scenarios from the future (such as the Sector 7 plate collapse).
Very early on in Rebirth, Aerith confirms to Tifa that she no longer can see the future, or has any of the foreknowledge about how their journey will play out nor events that happened in the past (Tifa asks Aerith about Cloud’s whereabouts in the five years following Nibelheim, thinking Aerith might know, given she’d established foresight to Tifa at least twice during the events of Remake).
In Red XIII’s Gold Saucer date, he too confirms that he and Aerith lost their foreknowledge.
So given all that, it greatly informs how Aerith acts in Remake, as she has knowledge of both past and future events, and this is seen in her interactions with Cloud and Tifa, and others too, but I believe most strongly with them two. Red XIII and Marlene obviously as well.
But without that knowledge, and with everything now unknown and confusing to her, Aerith in Rebirth is very much the Aerith we know from the OG. She isn’t Remake Aerith who had knowledge of how the OG’s events play out. She’s now almost been reverted back to the original Aerith.
The Aerith who was “interested in the love triangle between herself, Cloud, and Tifa”. She’s seen as much more forward, and takes more initiative, in her attempts and desires to be able to determine the nature of her feelings, Cloud’s feelings, and that of their relationship.
Aerith having no knowledge of other events also informs her attitude regarding Zack. If she was Remake Aerith, she would 100% know Zack’s fate, and survival in the other world. She doesn’t seem to her, which is why her Gold Saucer date with Cloud is almost exactly the same verbatim to her original date from 1997. It’s notably different to her resolution scene from Remake in my opinion.
Of course towards the end of Rebirth, Aerith becomes more aware of her fate, or Destiny, or however it would be more appropriate to frame it as. She knows she is going to die. The circumstances and context for this are still a bit vague to me, but essentially even with this knowledge, this isn’t her becoming omnipotent again like she was in Remake. Because her dream date in Sector 5 with Cloud is very much in line with Rebirth Aerith wanting to get closure and understanding of the nature of hers and Cloud’s relationship, especially given she knows now how little time they have left together.
To sum up as this is getting essay length (my apologies) this serves to make Aerith more of the flawed, but lovable and relatable and more dynamic character she was in the original. Not to say she wasn’t all that in Remake, but her being all knowing could only be taken so far in the wider narrative, and things are convoluted enough.
By her having this unknown journey, and arc of wanting to figure things out for herself (as it was in the original) makes for a more compelling story personally.
Last thing, I find it notable, that Aerith has her Gold Saucer date more closely match the original than anybody else’s, whereas the others are more further along development wise in the personal arcs of their characters (Tifa’s especially).
I believe Aerith’s Gold Saucer date acts as the strong foreshadowing it was in the original. There’s only so much time, and development left for this character. Her story is nearly coming to an end. Whereas for the others, there’s still a lot more left to go with them and their personal arcs, so their Gold Saucer dates are planting those narrative seeds that I believe will pay off in Part 3.
Come to think of it, this dream sequence is much more LTD-killing than the CT date kiss. We never had a similar scene in the OG, so when Aerith died, we didn't know where her feelings stood or how Cloud felt about her before the Lifestream scene happened. It was left for interpretation, which resulted in all sorts of conclusions and theories. This time around, we got this sequence that serves as much as a farewell and a conclusive answer to the question OG left for interpretation, and it all happens before she dies this time.
That said, I don't believe the LTD is dead per se, and we still have Part 3, so a lot can change, but it's definitely much more clear in terms of direction and intentions.
show that the LTD isn’t dead, nor will it ever die.
It’s being read/misread (YMMV) as romantic by a lot of people. That it confirms the nature of Cloud and Aerith’s relationship and story as “star-crossed lovers”.
Some are saying Aerith is trying to confess her love for Cloud, and that Cloud will realise he missed his chance, and that when they reunite in Part 3 because No Promises to Keep says they will, Cloud will confess his love for Aerith. I mean, it’s a beautiful story, but that isn’t the story that is being told here. Not at all.
Personally? To me it couldn’t have been beating me over the head more how much the intent was to convey the incompatibility of Cloud and Aerith as a romantic couple. I’m not even going to try and theorise in depth as to how much this sequence supposedly reveals just how much Aerith is or isn’t over Zack, it pretty firmly establishes to me that while there is a deep, heartfelt connection between Cloud and Aerith, as a “couple of lovebirds?”. Not so much.
show that the LTD isn’t dead, nor will it ever die.
It’s being read/misread (YMMV) as romantic by a lot of people. That it confirms the nature of Cloud and Aerith’s relationship and story as “star-crossed lovers”.
Some are saying Aerith is trying to confess her love for Cloud, and that Cloud will realise he missed his chance, and that when they reunite in Part 3 because No Promises to Keep says they will, Cloud will confess his love for Aerith. I mean, it’s a beautiful story, but that isn’t the story that is being told here. Not at all.
Personally? To me it couldn’t have been beating me over the head more how much the intent was to convey the incompatibility of Cloud and Aerith as a romantic couple. I’m not even going to try and theorise in depth as to how much this sequence supposedly reveals just how much Aerith is or isn’t over Zack, it pretty firmly establishes to me that while there is a deep, heartfelt connection between Cloud and Aerith, as a “couple of lovebirds?”. Not so much.
This is what I meant. Shippers (not all) tend to interpret scenes like these with a sort of “affirmation bias” in that they see it as promoting the ship when that may not be the actual intention.
Frankly, like others have said, recreating her date with Zack shows that she is not over Zack. Because… why not just recreate their little rest in the park during Remake or picking flowers in Elmyra’s garden. Or running around Wall Market taking part in shenanigans. Or their clock tower date. Or hell, just coming up with something entirely new.
It was a deliberate choice that she decided to recreate a date she had with Zack. Subconsciously on her part but very deliberate by the devs.
The LTD will never die. This does not apply to all but plenty of shippers, both Clerith and Cloti, will always interpret dialogue from that lens. But the opposite is also true in that they will disregard information that conflicts with their reading.
Zack and Aerith/Cloud and Tifa could have children and it still wouldn’t matter. Because Clerith shippers in droves will say it only happened because Aerith died and Tifa won by default.
Likewise, plenty of Cloti shippers will deny that Cloud ever had romantic feelings for Aerith, which is just not true.
I agree with you that both sides tend to disregard information that conflicts with their reading. I like to think that I try to see the romantic narrative in FF7 without any bias but I’m definitely prone to my own faults too haha
I do believe, however that with Rebirth, the goalposts for the LTD have shifted. I can’t find the original comment in this thread but someone else made a great comment that the central LTD question people argue over has shifted from:
”Does Cloud love Tifa?” OR “Does Cloud love Aerith?”
to:
”Does Cloud romantically love only Tifa?” OR “Does Cloud romantically love Tifa and Aerith?”
Theres just no getting around the fact that
Cloud only kissed Tifa
even if it was an optional choice, whereas, as you can see from the comments on this thread, there are people discussing what to infer from Aerith’s final church scene with Cloud.
I agree with you that both sides tend to disregard information that conflicts with their reading. I like to think that I try to see the romantic narrative in FF7 without any bias but I’m definitely prone to my own faults too haha
I do believe, however that with Rebirth, the goalposts for the LTD have shifted. I can’t find the original comment in this thread but someone else made a great comment that the central LTD question people argue over has shifted from:
”Does Cloud love Tifa?” OR “Does Cloud love Aerith?”
to:
”Does Cloud romantically love only Tifa?” OR “Does Cloud romantically love Tifa and Aerith?”
Theres just no getting around the fact that
Cloud only kissed Tifa
even if it was an optional choice, whereas, as you can see from the comments on this thread, there are people discussing what to infer from Aerith’s final church scene with Cloud.
To be clear, Cloud and Tifa’s kiss might be optional but we can’t forget that this the first time any sort of explicit kiss has been shown between Cloud and any of the love interests. And it only happened with one of them. That’s a pretty big deal no matter how optional it is.
Plus, you get completion points for seeing all the dates, so clearly the developers expect you to go back and try to get ALL the dates after you finish your first play through. Which means they assume you’ll eventually see all of them.
This is what I meant. Shippers (not all) tend to interpret scenes like these with a sort of “affirmation bias” in that they see it as promoting the ship when that may not be the actual intention.
Frankly, like others have said, recreating her date with Zack shows that she is not over Zack. Because… why not just recreate their little rest in the park during Remake or picking flowers in Elmyra’s garden.
I mean I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with having one’s own interpretations and readings of any given story like this. If it brings people comfort to have those beliefs in the story, then that’s fine. It would actually be nice to think it would allow there to be more healthier and respectful debates around the love triangle, because there is genuinely so much to discuss and theorise about all the various Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith interactions in Rebirth.
It’s actually really lovely that for the most part from what I’ve read on these here forums, this is a really healthy, respectful and safe place to have those discussions.
But I’m saying this as someone who loves all three, and reads the story as someone who both believes that ultimately the story will end as it did in the original with Cloud and Tifa together, and Aerith and Zack together in the Lifestream. But I also respect that there was something deep and profound and meaningful in the relations Cloud had with Aerith. Much in the same way there is between the two women themselves.
The problem I think when these conversations play out across other areas of the internet is so often they run afoul of interpretations that are rooted in the incorrect reading that Cloud’s deep emotional feelings regarding Tifa and Aerith must be exclusive to only one of the women. That he feels this way about one at the expense of the other.
I mean yes I believe he does love one, and arguably loves the other too, but not in the same sense.
As Aerith herself puts it, “There is liking, and there is liking”
So many people have to mentally jump through a lot of hoops, and cherry pick scenes and information to try and convince themselves and others that Cloud feels absolutely nothing for Aerith, if he feels this way about Tifa, and vice versa, when that is blatantly not true in the text itself.
TL;DR I think it’s great we’re able to have nuanced and respectful conversations around this debate here, I just wished that could be more widespread among the community.
Speaking of liking and “liking”, has anyone brought up that Aerith’s line to Cloud in the church scene contrasts this excerpt from Trace of Two Pasts?
She'd discovered that Cloud-the quiet neighbor who had always seemed as unreachable as the stars--was just a normal boy like any other. She'd come to understand that she did like him. And it was that special kind of "like" the one that ties up your heart, making you yearn to be with that person for the rest of your days.
Tifa and Aerith really are two opposite sides of the same coin huh?
This is what I meant. Shippers (not all) tend to interpret scenes like these with a sort of “affirmation bias” in that they see it as promoting the ship when that may not be the actual intention.
Frankly, like others have said, recreating her date with Zack shows that she is not over Zack. Because… why not just recreate their little rest in the park during Remake or picking flowers in Elmyra’s garden. Or running around Wall Market taking part in shenanigans. Or their clock tower date. Or hell, just coming up with something entirely new.
It was a deliberate choice that she decided to recreate a date she had with Zack. Subconsciously on her part but very deliberate by the devs.
I do agree it will never truly die for the shippers, both sides included. However, I'm speaking more about making things clearer for the wider audience that still sees FFVII romance as open to interpretation since they aren't aware of even half of the information we got with the compilation.
Feel free to read this as me interpreting information that conflicts with my preferred intention (since it's very clear that I do have a favorite horse in this race ). If I consider Remake and Rebirth alone, there's nothing that convinces me for sure that Cloud loves Aerith romantically. But to discuss that, we would probably need to discuss how we define what we consider as love/romantic per se, and I'd rather not (we did that in this very thread in the past, and it's a very tiresome subject, lol). But we still have Part 3 to go, so my perception of it can change.
Speaking of liking and “liking”, has anyone brought up that Aerith’s line to Cloud in the church scene contrasts this excerpt from Trace of Two Pasts?
She'd discovered that Cloud-the quiet neighbor who had always seemed as unreachable as the stars--was just a normal boy like any other. She'd come to understand that she did like him. And it was that special kind of "like" the one that ties up your heart, making you yearn to be with that person for the rest of your days.
Tifa and Aerith really are two opposite sides of the same coin huh?
It’s why that while there is a certain element of romantic rivalry between Tifa and Aerith, they aren’t “rivals” per se, and aren’t presented as being in competition with each other over Cloud’s affections.
If Tifa is your date during the first visit to the Gold Saucer, Aerith even openly admits in front of Cloud and Tifa that she is “a teensy bit jealous”. Not of Cloud and Tifa necessarily, the way she says it makes me think she’s more jealous of the fact she doesn’t have a date to go around the Gold Saucer in this scenario where Cloud is with Tifa.
Both Tifa and Aerith are emotionally rich, but also young and navigating a lot of personal and emotional turmoil that tie to their pasts and the journey they are on, and both display a remarkable level of emotional maturity regarding each other that they don’t once really ever fall victim to the Betty and Veronica trope as friends.
Tifa and Aerith’s interactions are actually the ones I look forward to the most
I mean I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with having one’s own interpretations and readings of any given story like this. If it brings people comfort to have those beliefs in the story, then that’s fine. It would actually be nice to think it would allow there to be more healthier and respectful debates around the love triangle, because there is genuinely so much to discuss and theorise about all the various Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith interactions in Rebirth.
It’s actually really lovely that for the most part from what I’ve read on these here forums, this is a really healthy, respectful and safe place to have those discussions.
But I’m saying this as someone who loves all three, and reads the story as someone who both believes that ultimately the story will end as it did in the original with Cloud and Tifa together, and Aerith and Zack together in the Lifestream. But I also respect that there was something deep and profound and meaningful in the relations Cloud had with Aerith. Much in the same way there is between the two women themselves.
The problem I think when these conversations play out across other areas of the internet is so often they run afoul of interpretations that are rooted in the incorrect reading that Cloud’s deep emotional feelings regarding Tifa and Aerith must be exclusive to only one of the women. That he feels this way about one at the expense of the other.
I mean yes I believe he does love one, and arguably loves the other too, but not in the same sense.
As Aerith herself puts it, “There is liking, and there is liking”
So many people have to mentally jump through a lot of hoops, and cherry pick scenes and information to try and convince themselves and others that Cloud feels absolutely nothing for Aerith, if he feels this way about Tifa, and vice versa, when that is blatantly not true in the text itself.
TL;DR I think it’s great we’re able to have nuanced and respectful conversations around this debate here, I just wished that could be more widespread among the community.
Whenever one single line is taken to be used as evidence that someone is toxic, that’s when I know whatever argument they have is not worth listening to.
Not even to mention one must clearly not have an understanding of people and relationships if they are to take lines like those and use them to make out that it’s toxic.
Also if toxic is a chosen description that’s very quickly used in such arguments, especially when there is no actual basis for it being the case, it makes me wonder why it’s so often thrown around so carelessly. To me it minimises examples in real life and real relationships where there is actual demonstrable emotional toxicity.
Sadly though, based purely on arguments you see play out across on Twitter by the hour, to an extent shipping and toxicity do go hand in hand.
Whenever one single line is taken to be used as evidence that someone is toxic, that’s when I know whatever argument they have is not worth listening to.
Not even to mention one must clearly not have an understanding of people and relationships if they are to take lines like those and use them to make out that it’s toxic.
Also if toxic is a chosen description that’s very quickly used in such arguments, especially when there is no actual basis for it being the case, it makes me wonder why it’s so often thrown around so carelessly. To me it minimises examples in real life and real relationships where there is actual demonstrable emotional toxicity.
Sadly though, based purely on arguments you see play out across on Twitter by the hour, to an extent shipping and toxicity do go hand in hand.
I was reading an excellent breakdown of the ending shenanigans over in the Main Rebirth spoiler thread, that reaffirms by own reading that Aerith’s slight difference in behaviour is due to her past and future memories being taken away by the Whispers. This is also depicted in her White Materia being empty, as the memories were what gave the Materia its “substance”. This also neatly ties into why Aerith took herself and Cloud to the other world (Sector 5) it was all about getting the unaffected White Materia from this world.
I like the fact that there was a strongly important reason for Aerith coming here, and with Cloud too, beyond just wanting to reenact a date from
her past with Cloud.
I knew there had to be added context for the whole Sector 5 date, because taken out of context, it was initially very odd hearing and then seeing Aerith act in this way, but now I know the Sector 5 date is probably one of the most important sequences in Rebirth for Aerith’s character and the plot. And I no longer see it as a disservice to Aerith’s character as I initially did. The needing the complete White Materia, and the knowing Aerith lost all her previous memories of the past and future from Remake.
If anything this added context makes Aerith’s death more emotional to me.
So many people have to mentally jump through a lot of hoops, and cherry pick scenes and information to try and convince themselves and others that Cloud feels absolutely nothing for Aerith, if he feels this way about Tifa, and vice versa, when that is blatantly not true in the text itself.
, however, the result remains the same in the end i.e. Aerith reaches the same conclusion, and Cloud is clueless as ever. 
