SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[JaeKony]

I would agree it's an allegory for choice but not necessarily in the way you frame it. For me Remake and Rebirth have been largely about the illusion of choice. I feel like one of the main themes of the game is that you can't change destiny. You can alter the journey and do things differently - but the end result will always be the same. So I saw Aeriths increasingly manic behaviour during the date as her realising that she can't fight fate. I think romance is perhaps a part of this, but ultimately I think these themes have a larger importance than that one aspect of it.

Just like I saw someone theorising that the empty white material had to do with Aeriths interactions with Cloud being meaningless. But I didn't really get anything LTD related from the materia thing - instead I thought it was really interesting that we found out the materia is connected to memories.. and when Aerith seemingly gets her memories back with the possession of the white materia from the other timeline - she hands the empty materia to Cloud, who is devoid of his memory.
Even more interesting is that it seems to me that the materia seems to be corrupted by his false memories and persona in the end. I'll be interested to see what happens to that materia when he gains his memories back.

Interesting take on the White Materia. Regarding the White Materia in the end:

Spoiler

Are you sure it was “corrupted” by Cloud? It seems like he just put it back in his pocket and then picked up the Black Materia.

Nevertheless, I’m really glad that the White Materia is seemingly going to be used as a plot device in Part 3 since in OG it kinda just falls and is never seen again. I like the theory where the White Materia will play a role in Cloud gaining back his memories in the Lifestream sequence with Tifa, similar to how it seems like Aerith “gained back” her powers/memories when Cloud handed her the White Materia in the Sleeping Forest.

 

[null]

Just did a side quest in Gongaga and Cissnei talks about Zack. Confirms she never saw him as more than a friend but misses him, and said she feels guilty for stealing a part of his life from him. Then she says “Now I know what he saw in you” to Aerith.

I think Cissnei is the type that has to constantly explain that she's not hitting on everyone. Poor girl has resting love interest face.

 

[Rin]

Just did a side quest in Gongaga and Cissnei talks about Zack. Confirms she never saw him as more than a friend but misses him, and said she feels guilty for stealing a part of his life from him. Then she says “Now I know what he saw in you” to Aerith.

This side quest made me really sad. I was talking to a friend about it earlier and I think Cissnei's feelings for Zack are pretty complicated. As she says, she feels guilty for stealing a large part of his life from him. We know in CC that he felt pretty antagonistic toward her at the end, too, and while I'm sure he would forgive her if they ever got to talk for real, there's a wound there that may never heal.

On one hand, she's the reason he got away at all but even so he never made it back to Aerith. And she's been trying to absolve her guilt by helping Gongaga and his parents but it's clearly still eating her up inside. We also know from another side quest that

Spoiler

she's still in contact with the Turks

so it seems unlikely that she doesn't know that Zack is dead.

If true, she's doing his parents a disservice by not being honest and that makes everything more complicated bc then she would lose the family she was so gracefully adopted into when she has nothing and no one else.

 

[Rin]

Oh shoot, which side quest is this? I blew through a few because I wanted to get to the story beats.

There's 2 quests for her and I forget what they're called but in the first one Aerith and Cloud go and collect mushrooms for her to make soup for Zack's parents & then her and Aerith cook the soup together even though they both can't cook. It's really, really cute.

In the second one, Cloud and Aerith handle some monsters for her and you get to ask her one question out of a choice of three. If you ask who she's waiting for, she'll allude to Zack and then say she sees what Zack saw in Aerith. She says, "Right?" to Cloud as if to back her up on her thought process but Cloud is clueless and doesn't get what she's talking about lmao

 

[Maidenofwar]

I agree she said he wasn't an ex but "dunno what he was ... but I miss him"

 

[r_monk]

There's 2 quests for her and I forget what they're called but in the first one Aerith and Cloud go and collect mushrooms for her to make soup for Zack's parents & then her and Aerith cook the soup together even though they both can't cook. It's really, really cute.

In the second one, Cloud and Aerith handle some monsters for her and you get to ask her one question out of a choice of three. If you ask who she's waiting for, she'll allude to Zack and then say she sees what Zack saw in Aerith. She says, "Right?" to Cloud as if to back her up on her thought process but Cloud is clueless and doesn't get what she's talking about lmao

Ahhhhh, I think I did the first but not the second. Welp. Was gonna replay to tidy up all the side quests anyway!

 

[liuliuliu]

t. And his (delusional) relief at her being 'alive' would overshadow Tifa in that moment. It would overshadow literally everything and that makes sense. His brain would be like you should treasure her, she loves you, she almost died - she's been a great person in your life, you love her, you should treasure her.

That intense love you described will confuse the hell out of people…. I hope they don’t go with this route. But I definitely can see they do this to attract (bait?) more people in pt3. I just hope if they choose to do it please get it over by Ch4 so it will be bearable. I prefer a comatose Cloud over a lunatic Cloud.

Honestly I’m quite worried about Rebirth sales, and pt3 in general . I hope they would stick with UE4 instead of trying to move to UE5 to save some development cycles. Hope they can get this out as soon as possible.

I think devs says they got inspired by empire strikes back and have Rebirth ended at one of the lowest points in OG. but the the thing is it doesn’t take 100 hours to watch a movie and it doesn’t take 3 years for next one to come out.

 

[r_monk]

I think Cissnei is the type that has to constantly explain that she's not hitting on everyone. Poor girl has resting love interest face.

She and Tifa should get together. Tifa could teach her how to properly cook those mushrooms.

 

[Rin]

I agree she said he wasn't an ex but "dunno what he was ... but I miss him"

I mean to be fair.... what WAS he? They weren't close enough to be friends and they certainly weren't dating. He might have flirted at first but that's before meeting Aerith and he doesn't do it again after. By the end, he just wants her out of his way because she's a Turk and she's threatening his and Clouds safety.

Her relationship with him is pretty undefinable. It goes too deep to be acquaintances, but again they're not friends, and they aren't even really co-workers. It's a weird space to live in for her, I'm sure.

 

[faefolk]

Interesting take on the White Materia. Regarding the White Materia in the end:

Spoiler

Are you sure it was “corrupted” by Cloud? It seems like he just put it back in his pocket and then picked up the Black Materia.

Nevertheless, I’m really glad that the White Materia is seemingly going to be used as a plot device in Part 3 since in OG it kinda just falls and is never seen again. I like the theory where the White Materia will play a role in Cloud gaining back his memories in the Lifestream sequence with Tifa, similar to how it seems like Aerith “gained back” her powers/memories when Cloud handed her the White Materia in the Sleeping Forest.

Dude you have just blown my mind. I think you're right. I didn't realise it was a different orb. O_O
I can't believe I missed that. I had read in the leaks that it was corrupted so clearly my brain just interpreted the information as I had previously read. Thanks for pointing this out haha that makes me way less nervous!

 

[r_monk]

Dude you have just blown my mind. I think you're right. I didn't realise it was a different orb. O_O
I can't believe I missed that. I had read in the leaks that it was corrupted so clearly my brain just interpreted the information as I had previously read. Thanks for pointing this out haha that makes me way less nervous!

Yeah, my take was that she took him into the other world because she needed a fully juiced-up white materia, which she didn't have in the main world. No idea what the hell the empty one is going to do, though, but that's a fantastic theory.

 

[faefolk]

That intense love you described will confuse the hell out of people…. I hope they don’t go with this route. But I definitely can see they do this to attract (bait?) more people in pt3. I just hope if they choose to do it please get it over by Ch4 so it will be bearable. I prefer a comatose Cloud over a lunatic Cloud.

Honestly I’m quite worried about Rebirth sales, and pt3 in general . I hope they would stick with UE4 instead of trying to move to UE5 to save some development cycles. Hope they can get this out as soon as possible.

I think devs says they got inspired by empire strikes back and have Rebirth ended at one of the lowest points in OG. but the the thing is it doesn’t take 100 hours to watch a movie and it doesn’t take 3 years for next one to come out.

Oh I didn't mean the intense love was him being crazy at all. I mean like... That's genuinely a very normal reaction to someone dying. Especially suddenly and tragically. It kind of takes over everything and your thoughts about that person become very consuming. Same with someone you care for almost dying.

I think Cloud would continue to have intense love for Aerith and Zack his whole life, even after the events of the game. It would just kind of settle into something less all-consuming in the aftermath.

Also clarifying that intense love does not equal romantic love and reiterating my view that Clouds brain would be unable to process what kind of love he is feeling - just that it's very intense. Love and grief go hand in hand.

 

[faefolk]

Yeah, my take was that she took him into the other world because she needed a fully juiced-up white materia, which she didn't have in the main world. No idea what the hell the empty one is going to do, though, but that's a fantastic theory.

It will be cool if they do something with the second empty holy materia. I'm guessing they may since they made a point of him looking at it during the closing scene.

 

[Rin]

Yeah, my take was that she took him into the other world because she needed a fully juiced-up white materia, which she didn't have in the main world. No idea what the hell the empty one is going to do, though, but that's a fantastic theory.

Aerith says it's empty because she lost her memories, so that means the white materia is probably tied to having a strong sense of self. Perhaps, once Tifa and Cloud fall into the LS and his true self is restored that will recharge the white materia?

 

[GamerSkull]

I guess I’ll have the hot take that I actually like AC. Hehehe

Well, at least the Complete version.

 

[faefolk]

I guess I’ll have the hot take that I actually like AC. Hehehe

Well, at least the Complete version.

Me too! I think it's kind of cool that they have a story with a boatload of trauma that has a realistic sequel where that trauma is still deeply affecting the characters. As much as I desperately want the characters to be happy and okay - I like that they made me sit with the discomfort of knowing Cloud wouldn't magically be fine after all that trauma.

It's a slow journey towards healing. I appreciate the honesty in that.

 

[Hix]

I mean to be fair.... what WAS he? They weren't close enough to be friends and they certainly weren't dating. He might have flirted at first but that's before meeting Aerith and he doesn't do it again after. By the end, he just wants her out of his way because she's a Turk and she's threatening his and Clouds safety.

Her relationship with him is pretty undefinable. It goes too deep to be acquaintances, but again they're not friends, and they aren't even really co-workers. It's a weird space to live in for her, I'm sure.

I'd say acquaintances is probably the closest.

Zack doesn't even know her real name (it's not Cissnei) or really anything about her - and she doesn't really know him as a person, beyond the facade, either - but they share a mostly friendly rapport for most of Crisis Core. Plot developments complicate that a bit, but in all I'd say "acquaintances" fits the best even still.

I guess I’ll have the hot take that I actually like AC. Hehehe

Well, at least the Complete version.

Right there with you. I mean the overarching plot is fluff and some of the dialogue is horrendous, but it's a visually entertaining movie with (speaking of Complete) a satisfying conclusion for the characters.

Cloud is able to let go of any residual guilt over Zack/Aerith"s deaths and move on with his family. The two main couples of the franchise are together - CT in life, ZA in death - and, in general, the movie does a decent job of displaying trauma rather than taking the easy route and ignoring it.

I'd love if they gave it the Remake trilogy treatment and further expanded on it, but if it's the end of the line just as-is I think it's fine.

 

[null]

I guess I’ll have the hot take that I actually like AC. Hehehe

Well, at least the Complete version.

The nice things I have to say about it are:

• It was visually light years ahead of its time
• Fight scenes were all incredible
• OST is incredible (still jog to it)
• OG flashbacks were incredible
• Fusion sword is damn cool
• Fenrir is damn cool
• Omnislash v5 is damn cool
• Vincent is damn cool
• Rufus is damn cool (should be dead but he is damn cool)
• Loz taught my 3 year old daughter to say wheeeeres motheerrr

 

[starcape91]

I don’t think the empty materia will be the thing that helps Cloud become whole again, but I could see it changing in some way once he is better.

 

[Empyrea]

Gotta wonder how these scenes would be viewed if a man acted like Aerith and a woman acted like Cloud. Would these still feel semi-romantic in that circumstance or super creepy?

I've had a guy do that to me. Let it be known he didn't get away with just a slap -- I punched him, multiple times.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I don't think this is developer intentions at all. Furthermore everyone always go after Aerith but other characters aren't actually gentle with their touch and just shove others around. Not only this but Cloud is kind of well ... Cloud with other characters, even Tifa, it's not just Aerith, when he finds something isn't fun, or gets a bit upset, it's shown.

 

[Rin]

I don't think this is developer intentions at all. Furthermore everyone always go after Aerith but other characters aren't actually gentle with their touch and just shove others around. Not only this but Cloud is kind of well ... Cloud with other characters, even Tifa, it's not just Aerith, when he finds something isn't fun, or gets a bit upset, it's shown.

This is what I meant earlier in that Aerith doesn't get special treatment from Cloud. He treats her the same way he treats all his friends. The only person who gets overt special attention is Tifa, as Cloud has officially been established as not being interested in initiating a kiss with anyone else or confirming romantic feelings with anyone else.

Aerith isn't really doing anything horrible but she does push his boundaries, just like Yuffie and Barret, and therefore Cloud gets snappy with them most often. This doesn't mean he doesn't care about them or that they aren't his friends. They just get on his nerves a little more than others lol

 

[Maidenofwar]

He snaps at Tifa too, and isn't always having fun on their quests.

I was also referring to Barret outright hauling Yuffie away or push/shoving her, or how the party is physical with say Cait Sith. It's kind of rough.

 

[Rin]

I can't recall a time he snaps at Tifa during their quests but I haven't done them all. Can you give me an example? I can think of him being grumpy and snappy w/ her in Remake but not Rebirth

 

[faefolk]

This is what I meant earlier in that Aerith doesn't get special treatment from Cloud. He treats her the same way he treats all his friends. The only person who gets overt special attention is Tifa, as Cloud has officially been established as not being interested in initiating a kiss with anyone else or confirming romantic feelings with anyone else.

He snaps at Tifa too, and isn't always having fun on their quests.

I agree with both of you. Cloud definitely is kind of an ass and that definitely extends to Tifa too at times. I would agree that overall he is much more gentle with Tifa and with much more 'initiative taking romantic undertones' - especially after he recalls their promise in Remake and gains a bit of his former self back. He's also much softer again with her between apologising for Kalm and the Temple of the Ancients. After that he really falls into Jenovas mind-fkery and is just the worst to everyone lol.

But I definitely think that Cloud is shown to be kind of a softie towards females in general. He's pretty soft with Jessie in Remake, soft with Tifa, soft with Aerith and has started being real big brothery with Yuffie now she's been around for a bit. He just tries so hard to be aloof all the time and it makes him act like a d-bag lmao. I don't think anyone is safe from Clouds cool act, even Tifa. (but again I agree with Rin that he's significantly more encouraging/soft with Tifa)