SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Rose Alive]

If SE ever made official statement like, CA isn't canon, never was and never could have been, I think I'd leave the shipping fandom xD Not general fandom because of lore or anything but yeah.

While SE will never make a statement like that, haven't they shown that CA aren't canon through the games and AC?

In the OG, Cloud ends up with Tifa. He's built a family with her in AC, while Aerith is shown to be by Zack's side. Cloud and Tifa are still together in DOC.

Then you've got Aerith's resolution scene in Remake. The Costa del Sol date where Cloud tells Aerith to not view it as a date. The contrast between Tifa and Aerith's GS dates. The sector 5 dream date where the NPCs are commenting on how there's no spark. Their meeting in the church where Aerith voices her uncertainty about her own feelings and Cloud calling her a friend/making new memories. Then you have Zack's scenes showing his devotion to Aerith.

I think what SE has shown us is pretty clear. Now there's no reason to not ship Cloud and Aerith though if that's what you like.

 

[Hix]

I also don't rly want Zack to die again but I don't see what other outcome there is if everything leads to ACC.

ACC is the end point of the trilogy, but Zack has already died before the trilogy even begins. The Zack we're seeing running around now is from an alternate dimension, or some such, who survived - so narratively he doesn't need to die for ACC to still occur, because the Zack in ACC is the former.

How things will play out for him and Aerith remains fully to be seen, but I have zero doubts they'll be together. ACC establishes this for the main world, and I'm excited for their reunion in part 3, but if the devs persist with the multiverse shenanigans then I hope "other" Zack lives.

Not only because he's just a great guy and deserves it, but how much moreso would it reinforce the message that Rebirth has firmly established - vis, that nobody can replace Zack in Aerith's heart - if they are shown together in death (in the Lifestream and the events of ACC) and also in life (in the other dimension)

 

[liuliuliu]

The side quest was positive and nice, and wholesome as a whole, but Cloud still seemed a bit put out to me, somewhat bothered by Tifa saying/ thinking that, and Tifa going guess we still aren't that close that late in the game had me a bit wait what, but I agree at least it ended on a positive note, and of course I just love the quest as a whole because cats

“But you seemed find by your own”
“that what it look like? That I’m enjoy being alone?” (I looked like that way?”)
“You didn’t?”
“Of course not.”
“Huh..Guess we still don’t know each other that well” （”cloud, I want to know you more” )
“Well never too late to make up for lost time”

Is this what you are referring to? I played in other languages so it is slightly different with English subtitle as well. Where Tifa initiated the line she wants to know more about Cloud.
Btw have you tried Japanese dub? I’m not saying English dub is bad, but Cloud sounds more cool and rude in English dub. In Japanese Dub, Cloud seems to treat everyone nicer because the tone is much more softer.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Not only because he's just a great guy and deserves it, but how much moreso would it reinforce the message that Rebirth has firmly established - vis, that nobody can replace Zack in Aerith's heart - if they are shown together in death (in the Lifestream and the events of ACC) and also in life (in the other dimension)

- Zack Fair technically is almost like perfect ~ ( there is no such thing as perfect though soo his flaw is his fate ) . This guy seriously SE should give him a good ending in part 3. FF7 world is too cruel for this guy and he is too good for the world.

BTW there is an article of Aerith being a dating red flag talking bout your ex in your date? ~ to be fair on Aerith in crisis core you will see their connection. How can you possibly forgot someone like ZACK FAIR??

Even someone like Cloud wont fit. of course it wont.. he's everything Aerith needed and treated her soo good. He thought her how to see world by telling her stories. Build her a flower wagon. Midgar full of Flowers wallet full of money.

 

[liuliuliu]

Also it really depends on how you will Canon in Games. Because there are optional scenes, but they are crafted in the way to not contradict with the main plot and each other and whichever you get shouldn’t affect your understanding on the main plot. In this scene all scene are canon. It is different with the “what-if” in manga and light novel.
Another thing is Cloud said Aerith is a Nakama and Aerith said she doesn’t know her feeling with different kind of “liking”. I think this is as close as SE will allow the devs to do it. There are always business decision involved in making a game…LTD brought in money and they will not kill it entirely. But at this point some people started to argue that they are just both confused and didn’t realize their deep love for each other romantically…

 

[Rin]

ACC is the end point of the trilogy, but Zack has already died before the trilogy even begins. The Zack we're seeing running around now is from an alternate dimension, or some such, who survived - so narratively he doesn't need to die for ACC to still occur, because the Zack in ACC is the former.

How things will play out for him and Aerith remains fully to be seen, but I have zero doubts they'll be together. ACC establishes this for the main world, and I'm excited for their reunion in part 3, but if the devs persist with the multiverse shenanigans then I hope "other" Zack lives.

Not only because he's just a great guy and deserves it, but how much moreso would it reinforce the message that Rebirth has firmly established - vis, that nobody can replace Zack in Aerith's heart - if they are shown together in death (in the Lifestream and the events of ACC) and also in life (in the other dimension)

Thank you, I needed this because I woke up so sad about him this morning that I almost cried lol

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Thank you, I needed this because I woke up so sad about him this morning that I almost cried lol

- just finished Rebirth too and I cried again for Zack even more than Aerith though again. He is really too good.

 

[Rin]

- just finished Rebirth too and I cried again for Zack even more than Aerith though again. He is really too good.

I'm tearing up just thinking about him with Aerith's ribbon tied around his hand.
WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS LOL I can't take it anymore!!

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Their meeting in the church where Aerith voices her uncertainty about her own feelings and Cloud calling her a friend/making new memories.

- A friend actually pointed out to be she's not a shipper on Aerith last date Cloud " calling her a friend/making new memories" - to Aerith who seems to be falling for Cloud ( although doubts in place) - said " we can but.." she's hesitant

My friend said this is not because she knows her fate ( she didnt believe Aerith knows she's going to die ) but this hesitancy is because she didnt wanna let go of Zack in her heart. By having Cloud closer she's seems afraid she's forgot bout him hence why she talks about him most of the time. Repeats their date even on the last part.

She said this is the last thing she wanna keep.

@Rin i knowww!!! Same thing Zack is the ultimate man!

 

[Maidenofwar]

There's no point to ship CA if it isn't real. They might as well not give them love song if that's the case or have Aerith write the song or look at Cloud. I don't believe they would fake it like that especially since both composer and singer consider it an honour and a love song for an important character and are doing different real life events to perform it and show it,

The no spark thing is BS because they said they were compatible in OG and even in Remake NPCs are cheerleading CA with phrases they say, confetti, etc, so for them to turn around be like psyche joke's on you, there's no spark is uuhh, especially in light of NPTK. Although in one version it's said because of crying, because of sensing time is short. I could keep shipping but it'd be pointless, to be part of serious thread like LTD. For them to suddenly be like no CA is just like Cloud/Jenny or Cloud/Shera I think I wouldn't be able to take it seriously and leave shipping though again not fandom. It doesn't have to be endgame to me but if they stated it was never even remotely canon haha I would be like ok then devs I can do better elsewhere for some things.

We all see different things from the Resolution scenes, and the dates, and the church. Plenty of CA didn't see them putting these scenes in to be dismissive of CA, especially with the play, and song.

 

[GamerSkull]

I won’t deny CA has all the hallmarks of burgeoning romance and that something might have happened had Aerith lived but I’ve always taken it more as a red herring, as in “the obvious love interest isn’t actually the real one”. Although it would be awkward to square away a lot of Cloud’s motivations once they are revealed, if he still goes for Aerith despite that.

But to be honest, I have no problems with Clerith shippers. There’s is just enough there that it makes sense.
My issues really only happen when they mischaracterize Cloud or Tifa or they just deny certain events. Or make false comparisons.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I won’t deny CA has all the hallmarks of burgeoning romance and that something might have happened had Aerith lived but I’ve always taken it more as a red herring, as in “the obvious love interest isn’t actually the real one”. Although it would be awkward to square away a lot of Cloud’s motivations once they are revealed, if he still goes for Aerith despite that.

But to be honest, I have no problems with Clerith shippers. There’s is just enough there that it makes sense.
My issues really only happen when they mischaracterize Cloud or Tifa or they just deny certain events. Or make false comparisons.

Yeah completely.

I’ve got a fair few friends who love Final Fantasy VII as much as me, and about half I’d say ship Clerith, but none of them do so at the expense of mischaracterisation nor excising parts of the story they don’t like.

Because at the end of the day they love Cloud as a character and Aerith as a character, their relationship and dynamic, the richness their interactions add to the story, and the moments that are heartfelt and sincere, and yes romantic.

But they also recognise Cloud’s intimacy and love for Tifa. Doesn’t stop them from shipping Clerith.

Of course when I talk to them their perspective is grounded in that, while they know the likelihood of Cloud and Aerith being endgame is low due to them also being fans of the original, the compilation, and also being able to see the writing on the wall in regard to the direction the story of Rebirth is going in, they’re happy in the comfort of knowing that it’s more likely Aerith still gets a happy ending with Zack. I think only one of them also ships Aerith and Zack together but they all don’t mind the idea that Aerith and Zack could be endgame because they know that Aerith would be happy in the end, and isn’t that what anyone ultimately wants for their favourite characters?

Much in the same way some very extreme Cloti shippers who mischaracterise Aerith and make out she’s this duplicitous home wrecker give the rest of us who ship Cloud and Tifa a bad name in the wider fandom, so to do the Clerith’s who try to pretend Tifa, and Cloud’s feelings for her, don’t exist give Clerith’s a bad name.

To that end I’ll say that I’ve found discussing these things on Twitter to be akin to trying to have a calm conversation on the trading floor of a stock exchange.

Whereas here, delightfully, it’s like this charming cafe where we can all politely discuss and philosophise in a respectful manner

 

[liuliuliu]

We all see different things from the Resolution scenes, and the dates, and the church. Plenty of CA didn't see them putting these scenes in to be dismissive of CA, especially with the play, and song.

But you also see what he did with Tifa right? So you agree that he like both girls?

Cause there really no way to argue a kiss is not romantic unless someone is crazy…

 

[GamerSkull]

But you also see what he did with Tifa right? So you agree that he like both girls?

Cause there really no way to argue a kiss is not romantic unless someone is crazy…

Well, if people think it’s similar to the Seymour kiss. The implication is that one of the two didn’t enjoy the kiss and it was creepy.

It can’t be Cloud since he’s the one to initiate, so Tifa by this interpretation must have hated the kiss.

 

[Hix]

There's no point to ship CA if it isn't real. They might as well not give them love song if that's the case or have Aerith write the song or look at Cloud.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at with this post, to be honest.

Shipping and canon are two totally separate things. Regardless of what is established canon, people can ship and enjoy shipping, reinterpreting different scenes, imagining things turning out differently, cute fanarts and fanfictions and all that jazz too. Just because CA is not the canon relationship being established for either Aerith or Cloud, doesn't necessarily mean one cannot enjoy the idea of it. It's a work of fiction, after all.

What I'm saying here, I suppose, is that even though Cloud ends up with Tifa and even though Aerith ends up with Zack there's absolutely no harm in enjoying the moments they had together and interpreting them as potentially romantic, as long as one understands that the story itself is not going to validate that in the end.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Anyone in full intent and seriousness comparing Cloud and Tifa’s kiss to the non-consensual, forced kiss that Seymour inflicts on Yuna, is broadcasting all I need to know about who they are as a person, and that they are asking to be blocked. Doesn’t matter who you ship who with, comparing the two shouldn’t even have been mildly entertained, and they should be ashamed the thought even crossed their minds.

 

[liuliuliu]

I actually wish Aerith is alive and Cloud can choose between 2 girls at the end when he is free from his mental illness and get to experience some domestics lives.
This is how Bleach LTD debates ends for me. Even though I ship ichigo and Rukia, I accept the fact that Ichigo will choose Orihime and I started to get it after re-read the manga

 

[starcape91]

I actually wish Aerith is alive and Cloud can choose between 2 girls at the end when he is free from his mental illness and get to experience some domestics lives.
This is how Bleach LTD debates ends for me. Even though I ship ichigo and Rukia, I accept the fact that Ichigo will choose Orihime and I started to get it after re-read the manga

When Cloud is finally freed from his mental illness in the Lifestream he makes his intentions clear. He’s been in love with Tifa for most of his life and he continues to be. And in Rebirth, even with his mental illness, he is able to make a decision between the two, as far as who he wants to be with in a romantic sense.

 

[GamerSkull]

Not trying to downplay Clerith here but I think if Aerith lives and Cloud gets a choice at the end of who he wants to be with, then Cloud’s entire motivation needs to changed.

Because think about it, if he has romantic chemistry with Aerith at the beginning and then ends up with Aerith at the end, then his motivation for joining Soldier being to impress Tifa, keeping his promise during Sephiroth massacre, and hiding his identity while in Nibelheim all comes off as a weird non-sequitar

 

[Ryushikaze]

That intense love you described will confuse the hell out of people…. I hope they don’t go with this route. But I definitely can see they do this to attract (bait?) more people in pt3. I just hope if they choose to do it please get it over by Ch4 so it will be bearable. I prefer a comatose Cloud over a lunatic Cloud.

Honestly I’m quite worried about Rebirth sales, and pt3 in general . I hope they would stick with UE4 instead of trying to move to UE5 to save some development cycles. Hope they can get this out as soon as possible.

I think devs says they got inspired by empire strikes back and have Rebirth ended at one of the lowest points in OG. but the the thing is it doesn’t take 100 hours to watch a movie and it doesn’t take 3 years for next one to come out.

It DID take 3 years for the next one to come out. Empire was1980, Return was 83.

I just had a bit of a brainwave, but I think I get where the comparisons are coming from. They're still so off base, don't get me wrong, but it might be idea of it?

Anyway, what I mean is that basically, Tidus is Yuna's guardian (one of, really) just as Cloud is Aerith's bodyguard. Meanwhile, Aerith is the last Cetra in the planet whereas Yuna is one of the summoners (sure, not the last one, but she is the last one among those who did beat Sin and thus, saves the world like Aerith does by praying to the Lifestream during Meteorfall).

...and that's all I got.

On that note, we have had an instance of FF7 characters referred to as a Guardian and Summoner. It was Cloud and Tifa, respectively, in their cameos in Ehrgeiz.

Not trying to downplay Clerith here but I think if Aerith lives and Cloud gets a choice at the end of who he wants to be with, then the Cloud’s entire motivation needs to changed.

Because think about it, if he has romantic chemistry with Aerith at the beginning and then ends up with Aerith at the end, then his motivation for joining Soldier being to impress Tifa, keeping his promise during Sephiroth massacre, and hiding his identity while in Nibelheim all comes off as a weird non-sequitar

Sequitur, and this is a good point. This is a narrative, and bringing up how often Cloud was doing things for Tifa makes zero narrative sense if it's just dropped without warning or explanation at the end of the game.

 

[Rin]

There's no point to ship CA if it isn't real. They might as well not give them love song if that's the case or have Aerith write the song or look at Cloud. I don't believe they would fake it like that especially since both composer and singer consider it an honour and a love song for an important character and are doing different real life events to perform it and show it,

The no spark thing is BS because they said they were compatible in OG and even in Remake NPCs are cheerleading CA with phrases they say, confetti, etc, so for them to turn around be like psyche joke's on you, there's no spark is uuhh, especially in light of NPTK. Although in one version it's said because of crying, because of sensing time is short. I could keep shipping but it'd be pointless, to be part of serious thread like LTD. For them to suddenly be like no CA is just like Cloud/Jenny or Cloud/Shera I think I wouldn't be able to take it seriously and leave shipping though again not fandom. It doesn't have to be endgame to me but if they stated it was never even remotely canon haha I would be like ok then devs I can do better elsewhere for some things.

We all see different things from the Resolution scenes, and the dates, and the church. Plenty of CA didn't see them putting these scenes in to be dismissive of CA, especially with the play, and song.

There's always a point to shipping regardless of canon status, I think CA shippers just want their ship to be endgame and that's understandable.

No promises to keep is very complicated for me, personally, because I don't interpret it as being just about Cloud. The song is a journey and Aerith cries at the end of it, which is strange because if it was about Cloud why is she crying? He's literally right there watching her, but she ends the song looking out into the crowd as if searching for someone that's not there.

She also writes the song after Tifa tells her that Cloud has remembered Zack after all and they were actually friends in the end. I think it does a disservice to say NPTK is just about Cloud as much as it's a disservice to day its just about Zack. In fact, the song is really similar in feeling to her farewell monologue from the FF 30th anniversary exhibition in 2018.

"I hate the sky, it carries away everyone I Iove.
Stamp… Stamp! Guess, you’re gone too.
‘With a new love, you’ll forget the old one.’ I’ve heard this story before, but… is that really so? Is it okay if my heart hurts?
This is a strange place. Flowers bloom all year long. The seasons never change–my feelings never change. I’m stuck.
Sometimes I see someone who has the same eyes. Same as you, I mean. And I wonder, should I ask: do you know him? do you know where he is? But I never do.
I know goodbye will be hard. But when I think of meeting someone new, I still get so excited. It’s cruel.
Things won’t last forever. Sure, it’s lonely. It’s sad. But I can say "bye” with a smile, right?
That’s it. I give up! I can’t stop thinking of you. Ugh, I can’t stand this!
Helloooo~ Wake up. It’s almost morning.
Don’t step on the flowers!
You came. Thank you, I’m glad. But you’re already….
You’re so far now. I’m so far from you. Oh, I’m rising. The sky is carrying me away. I can see you, you’re crying. Don’t cry, you’ll make it rain."

Personally, I don't think we can look at this monologue and say it's just about Zack, the same way we can't look at NPTK and say it's just about Cloud. These are Aerith's canonical feelings for both men and no matter how we slice it, Aerith's feelings for Cloud cannot exist without coinciding with her feelings for Zack--even in the OG.

But that doesn't mean people can't ship them, they just have to be realistic about the kind of content they're getting. As Aerith plainly says in her monologue, she's not able to get over Zack even though the thought of meeting someone new/falling in love with someone new excites her. The idea excites her but she never truly falls and as she says in her own monologue, she gives up on trying to replace him even though it frustrates her that she can't.

 

[Legend45]

Not trying to downplay Clerith here but I think if Aerith lives and Cloud gets a choice at the end of who he wants to be with, then the Cloud’s entire motivation needs to changed.

Because think about it, if he has romantic chemistry with Aerith at the beginning and then ends up with Aerith at the end, then his motivation for joining Soldier being to impress Tifa, keeping his promise during Sephiroth massacre, and hiding his identity while in Nibelheim all comes off as a weird non-sequitar

Aerith going into the lifestream only to find out that Cloud's "Secret Wish Tender Memories no one can ever know" all revolve around Tifa. Imo if Clerith is cannon after Forgotten Capital this just throws a nasty wrench in the entire thing.

 

[liuliuliu]

Yah I think he will choose Tifa and I prefer that. But really my understanding is that the “what-if” part is what keeps a lot of CA hooked…and right now there are always reasons to argue
“He is not in his right mind”, “He is jealous about Zack” “He is dense he doesn’t realize how much he loves her” etc…
These arguments should all go away if they just gave him 10 years of peaceful life right? RIGHT? He can’t be that bad that he can’t figure it out in 10 years…right?

Honestly I just love Cloud. I prefer he ends up with Tifa but I’m totally fine if he choose Aerith (if she is alive). Nobody has to end up with their first puppy live even though it is depicted a lot in fictions. And I equally love Aerith and Tifa. I can’t say enough praise for Tifa and not even at one point during my play that I don’t enjoy Aerith’s company. What triggered me is people talking shit about the girls and Cloud. I blame the toxic LTD and I hope it can just go away for good.

 

[Rin]

Yah I think he will choose Tifa and I prefer that. But really my understanding is that the “what-if” part is what keeps a lot of CA hooked…and right now there are always reasons to argue
“He is not in his right mind”, “He is jealous about Zack” “He is dense he doesn’t realize how much he loves her” etc…
These arguments should all go away if they just gave him 10 years of peaceful life right? RIGHT? He can’t be that bad that he can’t figure it out in 10 years…right?

Honestly I just love Cloud. I prefer he ends up with Tifa but I’m totally fine if he choose Aerith (if she is alive). Nobody has to end up with their first puppy live even though it is depicted a lot in fictions. And I equally love Aerith and Tifa. I can’t say enough praise for Tifa and not even at one point during my play that I don’t enjoy Aerith’s company. What triggered me is people talking shit about the girls and Cloud. I blame the toxic LTD and I hope it can just go away for good.

I feel it would take a lot of development to make him choosing Aerith make sense, which is why it's fine for fans to ship them and explore this in fanon but canon would have to undo so much narrative ground work that it just doesn't make sense. We would also have to establish Aerith as being able to get over Zack, which currently she is not able to.

And I struggle to believe that real!Cloud could ever date Zack's girlfriend. The first thing he remembers about Zack is how head over heels in love with Aerith he was. In fact, it's so ingrained in him that Zack's words embedded themselves into the trooper in the Nibelheim flashback. Cloud has enough survivors guilt and remorse as it is. I feel like being with Aerith would just be a constant reminder of his very sad truth. And that's why I overall just prefer Tifa for him and believe she is the 'healthier' option of the two.

 

[Rose Alive]

No promises to keep is very complicated for me, personally, because I don't interpret it as being just about Cloud. The song is a journey and Aerith cries at the end of it, which is strange because if it was about Cloud why is she crying? He's literally right there watching her, but she ends the song looking out into the crowd as if searching for someone that's not there.

She also writes the song after Tifa tells her that Cloud has remembered Zack after all and they were actually friends in the end. I think it does a disservice to say NPTK is just about Cloud as much as it's a disservice to day its just about Zack. In fact, the song is really similar in feeling to her farewell monologue from the FF 30th anniversary exhibition in 2018.

It was the same with Hollow when Remake came out. A lot of people were shouting to the heavens that it was about Cloud and Aerith, and insinuated you were unintelligent if you thought it could be about not only Aerith, but Zack, Tifa, and his own lost identity.

It played in the Sector 5 slums. It also plays in the wasteland around Midgar in Rebirth, and that's where Zack died. I agree with you that NPTK is not just about Cloud.