SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

Holy hell, you haven't changed a bit Ryu Of course everything you said was also objectively correct. Remember kids, pedantry may annoy some folks but it pays off... and they probably had it coming anyway.

My wife often chides me for being an absolute pedant. I always have to respond that I have barely begun to pedant, that I am using but a fraction of my full pedantry!

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Ahhh silly Mrs. Ryu, this isn't even your husband's final pedantic form When roomie and I are arguing nerd shit I aspire to reach that level of pedantry. Will you be my Muscle Mentor Pedantry Professor?

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Honestly, AC needs a re-write cause Cloud was perfectly happy and fine for 2 years until he gets alien cancer and is forced to look at his own mortality lmao which.... while realistic is also a little callous of him. He was like "Look, the world is saved, I'm with my girl and we're rebuilding our lives together. Life is SO GOOD." .... then he gets sick and is like "....Wait hold on."

AC does a shit job of conveying this. ACC is a little better but you absolutely needed to do a lot of homework to get the full picture.

- @Rin i love how to use the wording lmao~ idk why I'm laughing my heads off~ honestly when I first what AC i didnt get it~ @Ryushikaze is right you need to do a lot of homework to understand it.


I'm not sure what year did OWTAS was released but I read it after watching AC and that's what 'ureka' moment for me.. ahh so this is the story. If that's on purpose I'm not exactly happy with it. Makes you understand why soo many misconception in C/A

 

[Empyrea]

Clerith came out swinging hard in 97. Not to say there was nothing but that, but they were extremely aggressive in being pro C/A and very anti Tifa. It's why a LOT of the early LTD was as vitriolic as it was. You had to stand your fucking ground to make headway.

I hear so many horror stories about this that I'm glad I didn't join any discussions about this LTD business until fairly recently.

It's not selfish, since he is doing what he does out of a warped sense of duty and guilt, but I agree it's fucked up.

To elaborate, he takes the illness as a sign that he did not deserve his happiness, that he must atone. That's when Denzel gets it and he starts going mad for a cure. Then he gets it too and his guilt over the fact that he was happy hits even harder so he stays away because "I do not deserve good things, I must earn them" combined with "I bring them misfortune."

AC does a shit job of conveying this. ACC is a little better but you absolutely needed to do a lot of homework to get the full picture.

My confusion when I first saw that movie was real.

I watched AC right after I played the OG (so when I was still 14...) and the way the dialogue was written was a little difficult for me, who was still in the middle of learning English. Like I wasn't bad by any means, but they talk almost exclusively in purple prose Growing older and watching ACC helped -- in fact, I appreciate the story a lot more compared to back then, but it's still much better with all the details in context.

When did I catch wind of the novellas? Around a few years back

 

[cgnVirtue]

I’m pretty new to the universe of FF7, my first FF7 was Remake and I never played the original, so I guess take what I say with like a handful of salt, but the Love Triangle Debate really bothers me. I’m sure this point has been made long before me but in my experience with Remake/Rebirth I feel like the LTD severely hampers so much of the story being told.
As an anecdote, I’ve recently joined this forum after so long of keeping silent (so I don’t drive my wife completely insane) but I’ve had the overwhelming urge to join the discussion about this series and the Remakes, especially since Rebirth’s ending confused me WAAAY more than Remake’s. Before I found this forum, I found it to be extremely difficult to talk to people about the details about this game because they were so focused on shipping.

Particularly, I just happen to somehow follow lots of Clerith shippers (streamers, content creators, etc). on Twitter. I had no idea until I finished Rebirth because I NEEDED to talk to someone about it and I hadn’t before. It was impossible to find any meaningful conversations about the finer details of the plot which I guess just so happens to heavily feature Tifa and Cloud’s relationship and how it’s essential to the entire story. It didn’t bother me before when I saw them celebrate their ship but when it comes to the actual story I felt like I was going insane. I felt like I was playing a completely different game from everyone else. I’ve seen people call FF7 Remake/Rebirth a love story between Cloud and Aerith, which in my opinion really really undermines and reduces all of the meaningful parts of this world and its story.

Maybe I’m biased because Tifa is my favorite character by far (followed by Cloud), but I feel like you have to acknowledge that for Cloud, Tifa is the most important person in his story. The person that has had the most impact on him as a character, and denying that denies a huge chunk of the story and his character. Same thing with undermining Zack and how he is arguably the character that’s impacted Aerith the most.
These are givens, in my opinion. “Facts” that the story shows you. No matter how important Cloud and Aerith are to each other, their “strings of fate” are intertwined the most with characters that are not each other.
This is just stuff that I’ve gotten from the narrative I’ve been shown, and what portions of the expanded universe I’ve managed to read about.
I really feel like there isn’t really a love triangle much at all. And I’m kind of sick of it getting in the way of any meaningful discussions that could be had.
Anyways, these are my 2 cents. Maybe I’m just a shipper in denial. Who knows. But I want basic elements acknowledged so I don’t feel like I’m going insane for interpreting what I feel like are the foundations of the story.

So uh, thanks to whoever reads this.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I hear so many horror stories about this that I'm glad I didn't join any discussions about this LTD business until fairly recently.

- you're lucky you didnt its a bit hard to fight as a cloti shipper back then. I dont have any means aside from OG although people are dissastified with the ending.

 

[Empyrea]

- you're lucky you didnt its a bit hard to fight as a cloti shipper back then. I dont have any means aside from OG although people are dissastified with the ending.

Sure seems like it. Back then, the most common question I heard was if the party actually won or not xD

I’m pretty new to the universe of FF7, my first FF7 was Remake and I never played the original, so I guess take what I say with like a handful of salt, but the Love Triangle Debate really bothers me. I’m sure this point has been made long before me but in my experience with Remake/Rebirth I feel like the LTD severely hampers so much of the story being told.
As an anecdote, I’ve recently joined this forum after so long of keeping silent (so I don’t drive my wife completely insane) but I’ve had the overwhelming urge to join the discussion about this series and the Remakes, especially since Rebirth’s ending confused me WAAAY more than Remake’s. Before I found this forum, I found it to be extremely difficult to talk to people about the details about this game because they were so focused on shipping.

Particularly, I just happen to somehow follow lots of Clerith shippers (streamers, content creators, etc). on Twitter. I had no idea until I finished Rebirth because I NEEDED to talk to someone about it and I hadn’t before. It was impossible to find any meaningful conversations about the finer details of the plot which I guess just so happens to heavily feature Tifa and Cloud’s relationship and how it’s essential to the entire story. It didn’t bother me before when I saw them celebrate their ship but when it comes to the actual story I felt like I was going insane. I felt like I was playing a completely different game from everyone else. I’ve seen people call FF7 Remake/Rebirth a love story between Cloud and Aerith, which in my opinion really really undermines and reduces all of the meaningful parts of this world and its story.

Maybe I’m biased because Tifa is my favorite character by far (followed by Cloud), but I feel like you have to acknowledge that for Cloud, Tifa is the most important person in his story. The person that has had the most impact on him as a character, and denying that denies a huge chunk of the story and his character. Same thing with undermining Zack and how he is arguably the character that’s impacted Aerith the most.
These are givens, in my opinion. “Facts” that the story shows you. No matter how important Cloud and Aerith are to each other, their “strings of fate” are intertwined the most with characters that are not each other.
This is just stuff that I’ve gotten from the narrative I’ve been shown, and what portions of the expanded universe I’ve managed to read about.
I really feel like there isn’t really a love triangle much at all. And I’m kind of sick of it getting in the way of any meaningful discussions that could be had.
Anyways, these are my 2 cents. Maybe I’m just a shipper in denial. Who knows. But I want basic elements acknowledged so I don’t feel like I’m going insane for interpreting what I feel like are the foundations of the story.

So uh, thanks to whoever reads this.

I have a somewhat similar experience in that everyone in my circle either don't know much about FF7, don't care about shipping, or have played but just say whatever about it. My partner, in particular, just rolls his eyes at me because whenever I talk about FF7, the ship wars inevitably comes up and he doesn't wanna hear any of it, seeing as he's avoided it plus he didn't play FF7, either.

So glad to see you finally post, too, 'cause I've been seeing your username! And high five to my fellow Tifa fan!

 

[Rin]

Where was she? I looked for her but didn't see her in Ch8.

Tifa is in Chocobo Square! She actually has the same dialogue no matter who you're with (out of the girls, anyway. Haven't done Nanaki or Barret yet for chapter 8). So she's definitely not jealous of seeing CA together.

Aeriths dialogue does change if you're with Yuffie and she makes no reference of being jealous at all, but instead teases Cloud for being on a "date" with Yuffie (which he vehemently denies bc.... Yuffie lol).

Who was this?

I don't think we're allowed to say names here. Just know they're one of the biggest, if not the biggest CA around.

It's not selfish, since he is doing what he does out of a warped sense of duty and guilt, but I agree it's fucked up.

To elaborate, he takes the illness as a sign that he did not deserve his happiness, that he must atone. That's when Denzel gets it and he starts going mad for a cure. Then he gets it too and his guilt over the fact that he was happy hits even harder so he stays away because "I do not deserve good things, I must earn them" combined with "I bring them misfortune."

AC does a shit job of conveying this. ACC is a little better but you absolutely needed to do a lot of homework to get the full picture.

Oh, yeah, I know. In the further convo, I had clarified that by "selfish" I meant it's an internal plot vs an external plot and not that Cloud himself is selfish.

- @Rin i love how to use the wording lmao~ idk why I'm laughing my heads off~ honestly when I first what AC i didnt get it~ @Ryushikaze is right you need to do a lot of homework to understand it.


I'm not sure what year did OWTAS was released but I read it after watching AC and that's what 'ureka' moment for me.. ahh so this is the story. If that's on purpose I'm not exactly happy with it. Makes you understand why soo many misconception in C/A

I'm glad my wording made you laugh lmao I try to make things light hearted so that people know I love this series and I'm looking at it from a casual POV vs. angry, demanding fan.

I'm also not sure when OWTAS came out either but I also read it after AC and suddenly everything made sense. Clearly, they couldn't fit all that info into the movie but it does the script a massive disservice--hence why I think it needs a rewrite.

 

[Hix]

These are givens, in my opinion. “Facts” that the story shows you. No matter how important Cloud and Aerith are to each other, their “strings of fate” are intertwined the most with characters that are not each other.
This is just stuff that I’ve gotten from the narrative I’ve been shown, and what portions of the expanded universe I’ve managed to read about.
I really feel like there isn’t really a love triangle much at all. And I’m kind of sick of it getting in the way of any meaningful discussions that could be had.
Anyways, these are my 2 cents. Maybe I’m just a shipper in denial. Who knows. But I want basic elements acknowledged so I don’t feel like I’m going insane for interpreting what I feel like are the foundations of the story.

Hi and welcome!

I'm not the biggest Tifa fan - or a CT fan per se - but I think, like many here, I can appreciate the game for what it is and Tifa, for what she is, within that. Tifa, I can't stress this enough, is the central protagonist's love interest, that's her role in the narrative. She's not the last Cetra, she's not got control over any ways to protect the planet, her relevance in the plot comes from her unique position in Cloud's heart and life.

In fact, the beauty of Cloud and Tifa's story is that they aren't special other than to each other. Cloud tried and failed to get into SOLDIER, but he never had any grand morals or plans, he just wanted to impress Tifa. Tifa is just a regular girl who runs a bar and knows bit of martial arts. Yet these two are the ones who fall in love, heal and strengthen each other then go off to save the world. Zack and Aerith are the two more traditional candidates for these roles, but they give their lives so that Cloud and Tifa can live theirs.

For Cleriths, everything about that story is cheapened, flanderised and compressed into a "Cloud loves Aerith because its cute the end" blob. Sacrifices are made in vain, characters like Zack and Tifa exist only to be ignored and Cloud/Aerith's every word and action is misconstrued as having romantic overtones. It feels like they aren't talking about the same game because they aren't, they are discussing their ship and have, over time, come to blur the lines between what shipping is and what canon is.

I think there's a reason why few of them seem to come here and engage in any meaningful discussion. The devs promise to end ambiguity has borne fruit - there's no misinterpreting a kiss, it's incontestable - and as such, there's very little genuine arguments to be made. CA has always been built on a foundation of attacking CT, but I reckon most people are less inclined to buy "pity kiss" or "that's not the real Cloud so it's not canon" as legitimate reasons to handwave away what is being spelled out so overtly, even if they may dislike it.

 

[Rose Alive]

But I want basic elements acknowledged so I don’t feel like I’m going insane for interpreting what I feel like are the foundations of the story.

You're not going insane. You're seeing the foundations for what they are instead of a shipping foundation. There's a lot of scrambling and "damage control" happening right now because of the kiss and the almost kiss. It doesn't help that certain influencers are leading the "everything is canon/you choose who Cloud loves" argument. Even in the OG you never influenced how Cloud felt about anybody---it was how others felt about him, and only that influenced those characters to a certain extent. If you got the LA version of the Highwind, it didn't change the fact that Tifa loves Cloud.

Btw, views like yours are my favorite to read. I like reading about the views of people who are new to ff7 through the remake games.

 

[GamerSkull]

Hi and welcome!

I'm not the biggest Tifa fan - or a CT fan per se - but I think, like many here, I can appreciate the game for what it is and Tifa, for what she is, within that. Tifa, I can't stress this enough, is the central protagonist's love interest, that's her role in the narrative. She's not the last Cetra, she's not got control over any ways to protect the planet, her relevance in the plot comes from her unique position in Cloud's heart and life.

In fact, the beauty of Cloud and Tifa's story is that they aren't special other than to each other. Cloud tried and failed to get into SOLDIER, but he never had any grand morals or plans, he just wanted to impress Tifa. Tifa is just a regular girl who runs a bar and knows bit of martial arts. Yet these two are the ones who fall in love, heal and strengthen each other then go off to save the world. Zack and Aerith are the two more traditional candidates for these roles, but they give their lives so that Cloud and Tifa can live theirs.

For Cleriths, everything about that story is cheapened, flanderised and compressed into a "Cloud loves Aerith because its cute the end" blob. Sacrifices are made in vain, characters like Zack and Tifa exist only to be ignored and Cloud/Aerith's every word and action is misconstrued as having romantic overtones. It feels like they aren't talking about the same game because they aren't, they are discussing their ship and have, over time, come to blur the lines between what shipping is and what canon is.

I think there's a reason why few of them seem to come here and engage in any meaningful discussion. The devs promise to end ambiguity has borne fruit - there's no misinterpreting a kiss, it's incontestable - and as such, there's very little genuine arguments to be made. CA has always been built on a foundation of attacking CT, but I reckon most people are less inclined to buy "pity kiss" or "that's not the real Cloud so it's not canon" as legitimate reasons to handwave away what is being spelled out so overtly, even if they may dislike it.

The argument that “that’s not the real Cloud” is a double-edged sword because you’d have to admit all of his interactions with Aerith have that applied to them as well,

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ahhh silly Mrs. Ryu, this isn't even your husband's final pedantic form When roomie and I are arguing nerd shit I aspire to reach that level of pedantry. Will you be my Muscle Mentor Pedantry Professor?

Of course! You shall be my pedantic protoge!

I hear so many horror stories about this that I'm glad I didn't join any discussions about this LTD business until fairly recently.

I think it was the worst right at the start, even before AC came about. Blatant bullshit in total contradiction of the game's actual text, some of which is still used as cornerstones for the aggressive C/A today (Tifa bullied cloud, and so much more)

My confusion when I first saw that movie was real.

I watched AC right after I played the OG (so when I was still 14...) and the way the dialogue was written was a little difficult for me, who was still in the middle of learning English. Like I wasn't bad by any means, but they talk almost exclusively in purple prose Growing older and watching ACC helped -- in fact, I appreciate the story a lot more compared to back then, but it's still much better with all the details in context.

When did I catch wind of the novellas? Around a few years back

Yeah, I can definitely see that as a recipe for confusion.

I’m pretty new to the universe of FF7, my first FF7 was Remake and I never played the original, so I guess take what I say with like a handful of salt, but the Love Triangle Debate really bothers me. I’m sure this point has been made long before me but in my experience with Remake/Rebirth I feel like the LTD severely hampers so much of the story being told.
As an anecdote, I’ve recently joined this forum after so long of keeping silent (so I don’t drive my wife completely insane) but I’ve had the overwhelming urge to join the discussion about this series and the Remakes, especially since Rebirth’s ending confused me WAAAY more than Remake’s. Before I found this forum, I found it to be extremely difficult to talk to people about the details about this game because they were so focused on shipping.

Particularly, I just happen to somehow follow lots of Clerith shippers (streamers, content creators, etc). on Twitter. I had no idea until I finished Rebirth because I NEEDED to talk to someone about it and I hadn’t before. It was impossible to find any meaningful conversations about the finer details of the plot which I guess just so happens to heavily feature Tifa and Cloud’s relationship and how it’s essential to the entire story. It didn’t bother me before when I saw them celebrate their ship but when it comes to the actual story I felt like I was going insane. I felt like I was playing a completely different game from everyone else. I’ve seen people call FF7 Remake/Rebirth a love story between Cloud and Aerith, which in my opinion really really undermines and reduces all of the meaningful parts of this world and its story.

Maybe I’m biased because Tifa is my favorite character by far (followed by Cloud), but I feel like you have to acknowledge that for Cloud, Tifa is the most important person in his story. The person that has had the most impact on him as a character, and denying that denies a huge chunk of the story and his character. Same thing with undermining Zack and how he is arguably the character that’s impacted Aerith the most.
These are givens, in my opinion. “Facts” that the story shows you. No matter how important Cloud and Aerith are to each other, their “strings of fate” are intertwined the most with characters that are not each other.
This is just stuff that I’ve gotten from the narrative I’ve been shown, and what portions of the expanded universe I’ve managed to read about.
I really feel like there isn’t really a love triangle much at all. And I’m kind of sick of it getting in the way of any meaningful discussions that could be had.
Anyways, these are my 2 cents. Maybe I’m just a shipper in denial. Who knows. But I want basic elements acknowledged so I don’t feel like I’m going insane for interpreting what I feel like are the foundations of the story.

So uh, thanks to whoever reads this.

No, you're absolutely correct. Several parts of the narrative simple do not work if Tifa is not special to Cloud and Cloud is not special to Tifa. Even moreso in Rebirth where IRiftiroth has been trying to sow doubts in Cloud about Tifa and try and bump her off. He is working with future knowledge that she's the threat to keeping Cloud on his strings.

- you're lucky you didnt its a bit hard to fight as a cloti shipper back then. I dont have any means aside from OG although people are dissastified with the ending.

I recall the arguments about the ending being far more civil in general.

Sure seems like it. Back then, the most common question I heard was if the party actually won or not xD


I have a somewhat similar experience in that everyone in my circle either don't know much about FF7, don't care about shipping, or have played but just say whatever about it. My partner, in particular, just rolls his eyes at me because whenever I talk about FF7, the ship wars inevitably comes up and he doesn't wanna hear any of it, seeing as he's avoided it plus he didn't play FF7, either.

So glad to see you finally post, too, 'cause I've been seeing your username! And high five to my fellow Tifa fan!

Same with my wife, who is very much into shipping regardless of canon and doesn't really get just how infuriating the ship wars of FF7 been especially as it relates to people lying about the actual plot of the game.

Tifa is in Chocobo Square! She actually has the same dialogue no matter who you're with (out of the girls, anyway. Haven't done Nanaki or Barret yet for chapter 8). So she's definitely not jealous of seeing CA together.

No I meant where is Aerith. I could not find her

Aeriths dialogue does change if you're with Yuffie and she makes no reference of being jealous at all, but instead teases Cloud for being on a "date" with Yuffie (which he vehemently denies bc.... Yuffie lol).

As well he should. Yuffie is still very much a child.

I don't think we're allowed to say names here. Just know they're one of the biggest, if not the biggest CA around.

Is it BlankBeat?

I'm also not sure when OWTAS came out either but I also read it after AC and suddenly everything made sense. Clearly, they couldn't fit all that info into the movie but it does the script a massive disservice--hence why I think it needs a rewrite.

I actually hope they put the remake of AC into Part 3.

 

[Rin]

Is it BlankBeat?

I don't recognize that name, so I'm gonna say no. Their username starts w/ an S lol

No I meant where is Aerith. I could not find her

Oh, sorry! Aerith is in Speed Square where the outer space mini game is.

I actually hope they put the remake of AC into Part 3.

That would be interesting. The only FF i've played with an in-game timeskip is FFXV but I wouldn't mind AC being included as something playable!

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I'm glad my wording made you laugh lmao I try to make things light hearted so that people know I love this series and I'm looking at it from a casual POV vs. angry, demanding fan.

I'm also not sure when OWTAS came out either but I also read it after AC and suddenly everything made sense. Clearly, they couldn't fit all that info into the movie but it does the script a massive disservice--hence why I think it needs a rewrite.

- i was soo confused with the 'emo-cloud' i'm not used to him being soo down although i know he's kinda aloof~ I'm just amazed with the visuals. but the story itself - noope I didnt get it at all.

I actually hope they put the remake of AC into Part 3.

- hmm i'm not putting my bet on the rewrite.. but maybe some portions of OTWAS or turks side story maybe?? idk.. but I'm hoping we get to see a reunion of real cloud and tifa by the middle of part 3 or possible early part (hopefully). Its a bit awful to put that in the end and Frustrating enough we have 2 games and damned we just finished disc 1.

 

[Rin]

i was soo confused with the 'emo-cloud' i'm not used to him being soo down although i know he's kinda aloof~ I'm just amazed with the visuals. but the story itself - noope I didnt get it at all.

I feel like 'emo Cloud' really soured his character for a lot of people because the context wasn't given. A lot of people thought thats just how Cloud was, so I'm so grateful for the retrilogy because people are starting to understand him a lot more!

 

[Sacky]

I’m pretty new to the universe of FF7, my first FF7 was Remake and I never played the original, so I guess take what I say with like a handful of salt, but the Love Triangle Debate really bothers me. I’m sure this point has been made long before me but in my experience with Remake/Rebirth I feel like the LTD severely hampers so much of the story being told.
As an anecdote, I’ve recently joined this forum after so long of keeping silent (so I don’t drive my wife completely insane) but I’ve had the overwhelming urge to join the discussion about this series and the Remakes, especially since Rebirth’s ending confused me WAAAY more than Remake’s. Before I found this forum, I found it to be extremely difficult to talk to people about the details about this game because they were so focused on shipping.

Particularly, I just happen to somehow follow lots of Clerith shippers (streamers, content creators, etc). on Twitter. I had no idea until I finished Rebirth because I NEEDED to talk to someone about it and I hadn’t before. It was impossible to find any meaningful conversations about the finer details of the plot which I guess just so happens to heavily feature Tifa and Cloud’s relationship and how it’s essential to the entire story. It didn’t bother me before when I saw them celebrate their ship but when it comes to the actual story I felt like I was going insane. I felt like I was playing a completely different game from everyone else. I’ve seen people call FF7 Remake/Rebirth a love story between Cloud and Aerith, which in my opinion really really undermines and reduces all of the meaningful parts of this world and its story.

Maybe I’m biased because Tifa is my favorite character by far (followed by Cloud), but I feel like you have to acknowledge that for Cloud, Tifa is the most important person in his story. The person that has had the most impact on him as a character, and denying that denies a huge chunk of the story and his character. Same thing with undermining Zack and how he is arguably the character that’s impacted Aerith the most.
These are givens, in my opinion. “Facts” that the story shows you. No matter how important Cloud and Aerith are to each other, their “strings of fate” are intertwined the most with characters that are not each other.
This is just stuff that I’ve gotten from the narrative I’ve been shown, and what portions of the expanded universe I’ve managed to read about.
I really feel like there isn’t really a love triangle much at all. And I’m kind of sick of it getting in the way of any meaningful discussions that could be had.
Anyways, these are my 2 cents. Maybe I’m just a shipper in denial. Who knows. But I want basic elements acknowledged so I don’t feel like I’m going insane for interpreting what I feel like are the foundations of the story.

So uh, thanks to whoever reads this.

Welcome; you aren't a shipper in denial. Its looks like the people you watch are though XD. Its just that you see that the story doesn't work with Clerith because it was never designed that way. For Clerith to work, you have to eliminate Tifas importance, not saying that she only exists to be a love interest to Cloud but that her role in the story is heavily tied to helping Cloud. Now what's really shocking is how heavily Part 2 has featured Cloud and Tifa's relationship and even how much spotlight Tifa got in this game. In Rebirth, most of the plot revolved around their bond, Nibelhiem and Sephiroth. So by acknowledging that these do not exist, like it seems some streamers do, You have to ignore half of the game's plot. Once you see why Cloud and Tifa are being focused on, though, you start seeing the story and how all the puzzles fit into place.

The most striking part is that Sephiroth seemed a lot more focused on Tifa and Cloud than any other character. That should give
new players a hint as to where the story is heading.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

The argument that “that’s not the real Cloud” is a double-edged sword because you’d have to admit all of his interactions with Aerith have that applied to them as well,

That’s just it though.

The argument that springs from this is that Cloud is only his real self around Aerith, that she is the only one that brings this out in him.

Like to support this argument you’d actually have to ignore an Aerith scene, two big ones in fact, her Gold Saucer date and the Sleeping Forest scene, where Aerith explicitly states she’s been searching for the real Cloud this entire time.

And we know what happens after the Sleeping Forest. Aerith never gets to know the real Cloud, and this is Aerith herself being open and honest about this tragic truth.

It’s all damage control right now to be honest. In a few weeks the excuse will likely be something completely different and irrelevant to what the excuse is now.

 

[GamerSkull]

That’s just it though.

The argument that springs from this is that Cloud is only his real self around Aerith, that she is the only one that brings this out him.

Like to support this argument you’d actually have to ignore an Aerith scene, two big ones in fact, her Gold Saucer date and the Sleeping Forest scene, where Aerith explicitly states she’s been searching for the real Cloud this entire time.

And we know what happens after the Sleeping Forest. Aerith never gets to know the real Cloud, and this is Aerith herself being open and honest about this tragic truth.

It’s all damage control right now to be honest. In a few weeks the excuse will likely be something completely different and irrelevant to what the excuse is now.

That sounds like bollocks tbh.

It’s almost as if they’re attributing Tifa’s influence on Cloud as Aerith’s influence.

I wonder if CA fans wish the roles were reversed. Tifa would be the Ancient, Aerith the childhood friend with the promise.

 

[Ryushikaze]

That’s just it though.

The argument that springs from this is that Cloud is only his real self around Aerith, that she is the only one that brings this out in him.

Like to support this argument you’d actually have to ignore an Aerith scene, two big ones in fact, her Gold Saucer date and the Sleeping Forest scene, where Aerith explicitly states she’s been searching for the real Cloud this entire time.

And we know what happens after the Sleeping Forest. Aerith never gets to know the real Cloud, and this is Aerith herself being open and honest about this tragic truth.

It’s all damage control right now to be honest. In a few weeks the excuse will likely be something completely different and irrelevant to what the excuse is now.

Don't we have an explicit statement that it's Tifa that brings out real Cloud? One of the devs said as much back when Remake was released.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

That sounds like bollocks tbh.

It’s almost as if they’re attributing Tifa’s influence on Cloud as Aerith’s influence.

I wonder if CA fans wish the roles were reversed. Tifa would be the Ancient, Aerith the childhood friend with the promise.

That’s exactly what’s happening though, and this isn’t the first time.

There is only one heroine in Final Fantasy VII to them, and all the growth and development Cloud shows as a character due to his relationship with Tifa is actually because of Aerith.

Aerith had a huge part in shaping Cloud’s growth, and helping him develop in the story. But that is unique to their relationship, and is independent of Tifa, much how Tifa’s influence on Cloud is able to be independent of Aerith’s.

Anytime there is an acknowledgment of Tifa’s influence from this particularly extreme subset of the fandom, or that she is tied to Cloud’s past, it’s mentioned that she bullied him, they didn’t like each other, Cloud left Nibelheim to get away from Tifa etc.

Goalpost moving so fast it gives you whiplash

 

[GamerSkull]

That’s exactly what’s happening though, and this isn’t the first time.

There is only one heroine in Final Fantasy VII to them, and all the growth and development Cloud shows as a character due to his relationship with Tifa is actually because of Aerith.

Anytime there is an acknowledgment of Tifa’s influence, or that she is tied to Cloud’s past, it’s mentioned that she bullied him, they didn’t like each other, Cloud left Nibelheim to get away from Tifa etc.

Goalpost moving so fast it gives you whiplash

The problem is, Nojima has gone through lengths to make sure that misunderstanding is debunked though. He made sure to in ToTP. Even in Rebirth, there is deniability on Tifa’s part. She was either oblivious to it…. or never took part in it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

That’s exactly what’s happening though, and this isn’t the first time.

There is only one heroine in Final Fantasy VII to them, and all the growth and development Cloud shows as a character due to his relationship with Tifa is actually because of Aerith.

Anytime there is an acknowledgment of Tifa’s influence, or that she is tied to Cloud’s past, it’s mentioned that she bullied him, they didn’t like each other, Cloud left Nibelheim to get away from Tifa etc.

Goalpost moving so fast it gives you whiplash

I wonder how much their brains would explode if you pointed out that contrary to the common statement, Tifa existed in development before Aerith did.

 

[GamerSkull]

I wonder how much their brains would explode if you pointed out that contrary to the common statement, Tifa existed in development before Aerith did.

Yeah, as I recall it… they were one single character that got essentially split into two, right?

 

[Rin]

Don't we have an explicit statement that it's Tifa that brings out real Cloud? One of the devs said as much back when Remake was released.

We do! It's in the Rebirth Ultimania where it's stated that Real Cloud comes out with Tifa, while SOLDIER Cloud comes out more with Jessie and Aerith because they tend to feed that part of his ego vs. Tifa who genuinely doesn't like his SOLDIER persona.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah, as I recall it… they were one single character that got essentially split into two, right?

Yeah. Tifa was sister to Sephiroth who looked like Vincent, so we're talking really early in the development process.