SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[starcape91]

I didn't realize you could have no one either. I texted my brother when he was in Chapter 8: "Who came to your door!?" He said: "...No one?" lol sad

 

[Eerie]

I've been seeing this quote floating around from the new cloud short story, can anyone confirm and perhaps tell me where I can read it?

2,000 Gil to Becoming a Hero | Ffvii Stories 1 Here found the link for you Peko's friend did an amazing job (her Japanese husband told her to translate more lol and she was like hell NO xD).

I was wondering the opposite, didn't even realise it was possible to not get a partner

In chapter 8, you have a partner only if it's one of the girls.

Edit:

Yesssss. I just saw this last night. I think the lyrics are about: the water tower promise, some angst about when Cloud came back to Nibelheim and hid from Tifa, the Gold Saucer date, the Lifestream and Under the Highwind.

I think the lyrics fit nicely Cloud remembering the gondola date. But the thing is, there is a part that reminds me of the NC scene, which is probably referenced and then in the Lifestream alone, wanting to meet Tifa.

 

[Hellenic]

Akira, the singer for Midgar Blues, made a come back with another song referring to CT and I believe the CT date as well as the game’s ending and maybe until the LS scene - which I have always considered as a love confession so it’d fit. It’s the one called Golden Spark

I missed all this stuff, so i gotta go and check them out on my hard playthrough.

 

[GamerSkull]

Where is this new song?

 

[Rin]

That's weird then. Red was at blue. Everyone else was green

It's because Red and Barret won't join you in chapter 8! So if Red is your highest, you'll be alone. I'm on NG+ and I chose red to be my companion, he does knock on the door but he leaves before you open it lol you can see him get into the elevator

 

[Eerie]

I missed all this stuff, so i gotta go and check them out on my hard playthrough.

He's in Kalm when you return, and his story still mirrors Cloud's story lol.

Where is this new song?

It's in game! In Kalm when you return after fleeing.

 

[LNK]

It's because Red and Barret won't join you in chapter 8! So if Red is your highest, you'll be alone. I'm on NG+ and I chose red to be my companion, he does knock on the door but he leaves before you open it lol you can see him get into the elevator

Ok, I did see him going to the elevator

 

[null]

I'm preaching to the choir a bit, I realise, but I just have to weigh in on the latest LTD deception doing the rounds: "all dates are equal, no romance is canon, you can pick who you like and it's part of the story and by design"

I can't stress enough how this talking point is actually a not-so-subtle act of subterfuge. It's essentially saying, ah, yes, maybe in your game Aerith loves Zack and Cloud loves Tifa, but in my game Cloud loves Aerith (and Tifa/Zack fade into obscurity) and that's just as valid! It's a roundabout way of arguing head-canon trumps actual canon, what you believe is more important than what the reality is.

Ultimately this "everyone wins" sentiment may come across as favourable to many, I see it oft upvoted on Reddit for example, it is nothing less than a way to write Tifa's entire character out of the narrative. Aerith has a role, she's the last of the Cetra, she has control of not one but two distinct ways of saving the entire planet from the disaster that is yet to come. Tifa cannot do this, all she can do is heal Cloud's broken mind, support him and stand by his side as his love interest.

Similarly, it removes everything Zack fought for, everything he continues to fight for, his purpose and motives. He already became a hero in Crisis Core, he's long over that, his last thoughts at the finale and his first thoughts in Remake were "I need to get back to Aerith" - Aerith's own story makes no sense if it's not coupled with her continued longing for Zack. Indeed, her entire arc with Cloud is based on the narrative that she feeds his SOLDIER fantasy with the bodyguard role in a desperate attempt to relive her lost romance. It's not some footnote or minor plot point that changes depending on one's actions. It's the story.

So too, the Gold Saucer dates are not an easter egg. One is not anymore "canon" than the other. Cloud is Cloud and his personality and interests don't change one way or another. I recommend everyone use the menu to watch all the GS dates and if at any point you think "hang on, that one must not be canon" then I suggest you're barking up the wrong tree on the story - because one, and only one, of the dates is unambiguously romantic.

As noted earlier, the dates are enlightening because they show how Cloud and co would react with each character in that given situation. I loved watching Barret step in to defend Cloud from the VR and give him relationship advice (careful observers will note the Tifa's Theme motif plays briefly here) For the girls, the devs are telling us that if you put Cloud and Tifa there he's going to kiss her, but put Cloud and Aerith there and he won't.

These things are not equal. It's being spelled out and if you can't see that then that's a you problem.

It’s actually a really old talking point based on Nomura’s “up to the player” shtick. Usually they’re talking about one of these quotes (at least one of which is referring to KH). There’s also this one about the OG mechanics:

Nomura: Depending on the player, it's natural for them to say, "I like Tifa. No, I prefer Aeris," so I wanted to shape things in reflection of that, or in other words, create a system that reacts to the players' feelings.

For example, if the game had a completely straightforward path, I might end up with Tifa because of story-related reasons, even though Aeris is the one I like, it gets to feel something like that, so I wanted to get rid of that approach. It's not that there are branching paths, but I absolutely wanted to incorporate a mechanic that reflects the player's feelings.

Again, this stuff is really old and there have been rebuttals for years. I wouldn’t take it as gospel for Remake.

 

[Eerie]

I feel au contraire that Remake takes that philosophy pretty seriously lol. The only difference is how they developped Cloud and Tifa in the main story so you don't have a choice and you see them being closer than ever to the point of nearly kissing (if you don't go their route).

However, as Toriyama stated, the GS dates have no impact on the story; they are bonus scenes meant for the player to understand better their favourite characters and their interactions with Cloud.

The OG was the same, no matter YOUR preference as the player, Cloud had his own - Nomura also states in that interview that there is only one path and he's quite clear about it being Tifa, which is hilarious to me considering he's basically giving the LTD solution in there. Back in 97' no less.

 

[Rin]

It’s actually a really old talking point based on Nomura’s “up to the player” shtick. Usually they’re talking about one of these quotes (at least one of which is referring to KH). There’s also this one about the OG mechanics:



Again, this stuff is really old and there have been rebuttals for years. I wouldn’t take it as gospel for Remake.

Yeah, I think they said the exact opposite of this for Rebirth which is 'funny' but also makes sense because Nojima said he wasn't leaving things up to interpretation now. So instead of 'The player gets to decide who Cloud likes', it's 'The player gets to decide who THEY like, this does not change Cloud's feelings tho.'

 

[Empyrea]

'The player gets to decide who THEY like, this does not change Cloud's feelings tho.'

They basically said, "Look, we know you like to self-insert or whatever, but FF7 isn't actually different from any other FFs with linear stories. We're sorry if you feel we baited you, but what we had given then and now was the illusion of choice -- not an actual choice," in the most indirect and roundabout (sorta) way possible.

 

[liuliuliu]

Developer interviews are part of marketing though. They might say something at that time because the company believed keeping LTD up to player interpretation would bring in more money.

 

[Stiggie]

It’s actually a really old talking point based on Nomura’s “up to the player” shtick. Usually they’re talking about one of these quotes (at least one of which is referring to KH). There’s also this one about the OG mechanics:



Again, this stuff is really old and there have been rebuttals for years. I wouldn’t take it as gospel for Remake.

In general all these quotes were already disproven by the "the staff have answers for everything" line. Makes it obvious that yes, there is a clear Canon answer that the staff uses to write the characters, they just don't explicitly state what those answers are, or go out of their way to disprove others. There is a difference between them not confirming what is Canon, and there not being Canon.

 

[Empyrea]

One would think the lack of the traditional multiple routes and endings thing, along with all the non-optional scenes that disregard your choices, would clue them in that canon exists.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I'm preaching to the choir a bit, I realise, but I just have to weigh in on the latest LTD deception doing the rounds: "all dates are equal, no romance is canon, you can pick who you like and it's part of the story and by design"

Holy shit, this was literally the major Pro-Clerith/Anti- Cloti canon argument that was being thrown around when I first set foot in the LTD more than ten years ago. Like, JFC we've come full circle for me, that's wild.

I can't stress enough how this talking point is actually a not-so-subtle act of subterfuge. It's essentially saying, ah, yes, maybe in your game Aerith loves Zack and Cloud loves Tifa, but in my game Cloud loves Aerith (and Tifa/Zack fade into obscurity) and that's just as valid! It's a roundabout way of arguing head-canon trumps actual canon, what you believe is more important than what the reality is.

And that is exactly where it leads, every time. In my experience, every time.

 

[JaeKony]

I’m not sure if this has been discussed yet but I’m intrigued at the possibility of the Sector 5 Church Date->

Spoiler

contributing to Cloud’s breakdown at the Northern Crater. Imagine being him and learning all at once that:

-You never accomplished your dream (being a SOLDIER to impress your childhood crush).

-You weren’t there when your mom, and most of the adults you grew up with, got killed.

-The girl you’ve loved your whole life can’t even confirm if you’re the boy she fell in love with.

-Even the girl you met a few weeks ago that said she likes you and wants to meet the “real” you, took you on a date that was a copy-paste of the date she had with her first love.

They’re going to make the scene where Cloud asks for a number as a Sephiroth clone for any semblance of an identity hit even harder than it did 30 years ago.

There are a lot of emotions Cloud’s VAs will need to portray to get this scene perfect in Part 3, but Takahiro Sakurai and Cody Christian have both been doing a fantastic job so far so I’m sure they will do the scene justice. The angstier this scene gets, the better the payoff later will get once Cloud discovers that:

-He never needed to become a SOLDIER to be recognized by Tifa.

-He was there for his village and tried his hardest to save them.

-He was and still is the person Tifa loves.

-Aerith started liking him for him and she does want to meet the real him in the LS.

 

[Rin]

I’m not sure if this has been discussed yet but I’m intrigued at the possibility of the Sector 5 Church Date->

Spoiler

contributing to Cloud’s breakdown at the Northern Crater. Imagine being him and learning all at once that:

-You never accomplished your dream (being a SOLDIER to impress your childhood crush).

-You weren’t there when your mom, and most of the adults you grew up with, got killed.

-The girl you’ve loved your whole life can’t even confirm if you’re the boy she fell in love with.

-Even the girl you met a few weeks ago that said she likes you and wants to meet the “real” you, took you on a date that was a copy-paste of the date she had with her first love.

They’re going to make the scene where Cloud asks for a number as a Sephiroth clone for any semblance of an identity hit even harder than it did 30 years ago.

There are a lot of emotions Cloud’s VAs will need to portray to get this scene perfect in Part 3, but Takahiro Sakurai and Cody Christian have both been doing a fantastic job so far so I’m sure they will do the scene justice. The angstier this scene gets, the better the payoff later will get once Cloud discovers that:

-He never needed to become a SOLDIER to be recognized by Tifa.

-He was there for his village and tried his hardest to save them.

-He was and still is the person Tifa loves.

-Aerith started liking him for him and she does want to meet the real him in the LS.

Oooh you know what I never even considered this but Sephiroth can definitely use Zack's existence to his advantage by being like "Lol that wasn't you that was this guy. Sucks to be you." Although idk if they'll establish that Aerith started liking Cloud for Cloud, 'cause she never met the real him and that's the point BUT she wanted to which can/should still make an important impact on Cloud's self-worth.

 

[Stiggie]

Apparently brianna is also saying the "there is no canon" line. Don't think she knows something we don't and is just giving her personal opinion. But man is it annoying.

Always hate this stance, it sounds so reasonable but leads to so many problems.

 

[Eerie]

Apparently brianna is also saying the "there is no canon" line. Don't think she knows something we don't and is just giving her personal opinion. But man is it annoying.

Always hate this stance, it sounds so reasonable but leads to so many problems.

She's just making a non-commitment statement, like, she is a VA working for this franchise, she has a number of CA and ZA fans, she's trying to not get into that shipwar. I think she knows and recognises perfectly that CT and ZA are the canon pairs, hell she's been doing rounds with Zack's actor as PR for Rebirth...

 

[GamerSkull]

We will just have to hope that FF7 Part 3 ends it for good with non-optional hanky-panky under the Highwind.

Spoiler: It still won’t. Have a feeling the LTD will never die.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

The human race'll go extinct sooner or later, and the LTD will go with it. Unless there really is a Hell, that'd keep it going.

 

[liuliuliu]

Apparently brianna is also saying the "there is no canon" line. Don't think she knows something we don't and is just giving her personal opinion. But man is it annoying.

Always hate this stance, it sounds so reasonable but leads to so many problems.

she is hired by the company and she really can’t say much and I will bet $5 in her NDA there something like don’t involve or comments on the ship war…basically don’t pick a side

 

[Stiggie]

We will just have to hope that FF7 Part 3 ends it for good with non-optional hanky-panky under the Highwind.

Spoiler: It still won’t. Have a feeling the LTD will never die.

I've been thinking about this, and man am I not looking forward to it. Keeping up the facade of it being your choice wasnt a huge issue in remake and rebirth, where there was always stuff like the date that allowed for multiple paths and where the relationships with all characters were still I development enough for them to be mistake as interchangeable. But If they really want to keep this entire "it's your choice" bullshit up in part 3 it would just kill the story.

For one the amount of hoops they'd have to jump through to bend the story enough to actually give the option of choosing between the dead girl and the girl who is centerstage in clouds development in part 3 in astronomical, and would feel insanely forced.

And for two, it would do such a disservice to tifas character, since we'll never get to choose tifa as the one to save the planet.

And yet, I can totally see them doing it by making up this stupid timeline nonsense to force her into having a role in part 3.
I swear, if SE finds a way to give Aerith a personal moment with Aerith to balance out mideel and the lifestream, then all my respect for SE and this franchise would be dead. They had better focus Aeriths story on supporting cloud and tifa, because if her story in any ways tries to compete with tifas her character is dead to me in a more serious way than literally

 

[Hellenic]

Apparently brianna is also saying the "there is no canon" line. Don't think she knows something we don't and is just giving her personal opinion. But man is it annoying.

A clear neutral response, couse she doesn't wanna fan the flames or get herself caught in it.

 

[billy22]

I'm preaching to the choir a bit, I realise, but I just have to weigh in on the latest LTD deception doing the rounds: "all dates are equal, no romance is canon, you can pick who you like and it's part of the story and by design"

Yeah, I think they said the exact opposite of this for Rebirth which is 'funny' but also makes sense because Nojima said he wasn't leaving things up to interpretation now. So instead of 'The player gets to decide who Cloud likes', it's 'The player gets to decide who THEY like, this does not change Cloud's feelings tho.'

Apparently brianna is also saying the "there is no canon" line. Don't think she knows something we don't and is just giving her personal opinion. But man is it annoying.

Always hate this stance, it sounds so reasonable but leads to so many problems.

Persona, Witcher, Baldurs Gate, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Rune Factory, Fire Emblem.

What do all of these "choose your romance" games have in common that simply isn't true for FF7:Remake thus far?