SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[liuliuliu]

Exactly. Don't get me wrong Zack is amazing but the problem is they tried to sell him as a better love interest for Aerith than Cloud at a time CA's were pretty much set on Cloud as Aerith's soulmate

Not related to the full post, but I wonder how could it possible for anyone come to the conclusion that Cloud is Aerith’s soulmate…Aerith doesn’t even know the real Cloud…

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Not related to the full post, but I wonder how could it possible for anyone come to the conclusion that Cloud is Aerith’s soulmate…Aerith doesn’t even know the real Cloud…

1997 to 2007 was a time when no one really questioned CA. In fact it's true that it was CTs back then who were considered to be wrong. It's a case of a ship war where for years one side was so sure they had won already. So it's going to take mountains to admit otherwise.

This is why it's also just really hard to convince CAs who were fans since 1997 that Zack was the true love interest. Before that the idea of Zack was an afterthought as was the idea that CA wasn't the canon not even considered.

Lots of stuff has happened since then.

 

[Yoru]

Not related to the full post, but I wonder how could it possible for anyone come to the conclusion that Cloud is Aerith’s soulmate…Aerith doesn’t even know the real Cloud…

@LunarTarotGirl is just saying Zack was not really a thing before CC, Clerith was kinda the default choice for people that like Aerith. It's more about people feelings than lore understanding.

 

[GamerSkull]

1997 to 2007 was a time when no one questioned CA. In fact it's true that it was CTs back then who were considered to be wrong. It's a case of a ship war where for years one side was so sure they had won already.

The problem with this is that the OG game does not support this. Even if you completely ignore the Compilation, the OG still does not support this.

However, I can see why it was a common interpretation back then.

 

[Legend45]

Something came to my mind this morning. Hypothetically speaking would a CA relationship even last that long? Cloud has never opened up to Aerith about his issues not once in OG or Remake series. This would cause a lack of vulnerability in a said relationship. Tifa doesn't have this issue since Cloud actually does open up to her. There's more factors I'm missing but I personally don't see the relationship remaining I guess stable?

 

[GamerSkull]

To be honest, a part of my frustration has less to do with Cloti and more to do with the fact that I feel like I’m being gaslit.

I took what the game presented and came away with a conclusion based on that. Then to go online and see people say “No, Aerith is the true love interest” despite everything really makes me feel like I’m sometimes going crazy.

It’s like watching the Lord of the Rings and thinking “Wow. Evil has been vanquished” only to go online and see people going “Sauron totally won in the end”. It would be maddening.

Apart from that, shipping preferences don’t really bother me.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

The problem with this is that the OG game does not support this. Even if you completely ignore the Compilation, the OG does not support this.

However, I can see why it was a common interpretation back then.

I'm telling you how it was back then. You say that now because you're talking in retospect. The OG didn't really go against it in the way that you think. And stuff like Tactics and Kingdomshearts didn't help. Because it didn't actually paint a case for Zack. Dismantled isn't canon but it's also what was around back then. And Dismantled pushed the idea that Aerith loved Cloud more than Zack and that Cloud had feelings back.Thus people assumed Aerith loved Cloud and that he was her love interest.

It may not be canon that CA is endgame but that's what people literally thought was the case and I'm talking about what the general belief was before CC.

If enough people believe something it really doesn't matter if the something they believe has evidence unfortunately. It was enough to convince the majority of CAs and make CT be seen as the under dog. To be clear I'm talking about how CAs saw it not all of the fandom.

Basically they thought for years they had the advantage and CC was not what they expected.

 

[GamerSkull]

I'm telling you how it was back then. You say that now because you're talking in retospect. The OG didn't really go against it in the way that you think. And stuff like Tactics and Kingdomshesrts didn't help. Because it didn't actually paint a case for Zack. Dismantled isn't canon but it's also what was around back then. And Dismantled pushed the idea that Aerith loved Cloud more than Zack and that Cloud had feelings back.Thus people assumed Aerith loved Cloud and that he was her love interest.

If enough people believe something it really doesn't matter if the something they believe has evidence unfortunately. It was enough to convince the majority and make CT be seen as the under dog.

Maybe, I still think the OG presents a very clear case for what we are actually supposed to think. What I’m saying is that if you ignore everything but the OG, it does not end the way some CAs think it does.

Sure, perhaps they were a majority back then and perhaps argued their side with some amount of confidence and “evidence”, but popular opinion also doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true.

To be fair, I’m not saying you’re being like this. I just don’t particularly get how so many people came away with this interpretation.

Also, I’m not talking about Zack. This has nothing to do with Zack. Just talking about Cloti and Clerith as far as the OG is concerned.

 

[Yoru]

To be honest, a part of my frustration has less to do with Cloti and more to do with the fact that I feel like I’m being gaslit.

I took what the game presented and came away with a conclusion based on that. Then to go online and see people say “No, Aerith is the true love interest” despite everything really makes me feel like I’m sometimes going crazy.

It’s like watching the Lord of the Rings and thinking “Wow. Evil has been vanquished” only to go online and see people going “Sauron totally won in the end”. It would be maddening.

Apart from that, shipping preferences don’t really bother me.

You know, I was thinking about it the other day and it reminds me of something.

You would be surprised by the number of people who never complete games they're buying.

Stats are abyssal.

So we say it as a joke, but I legit think a part of this fandom never actually played the game completely. Kinda the same thing with the younger generation who discovered the game with youtube videos.

And i'm not even talking about people who are just following their feelings. They know the game, it just doesn't click with them.

So yeah, I don't think we're going crazy, it's just that FF7 is loved by so many people, that it's even more personalities to understand.

 

[GamerSkull]

Ultimately, the point I guess is that I really truly hope the devs have explicit confirmation once and for all for either Clerith, Cloti, Zerith or whatever.

Even if the LTD continues past that, at least the majority of it will be over. At least I’ll know whether I’m sane or not.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Maybe, I still think the OG presents a very clear case for what we are actually supposed to think. What I’m saying is that if you ignore everything but the OG, it does not end the way some CAs think it does.

Sure, perhaps they were a majority back then and perhaps argued their side with some amount of confidence and “evidence”, but popular opinion also doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true.

To be fair, I’m not saying you’re being like this. I just don’t particularly get how so many people came away with this interpretation.

Also, I’m not talking about Zack. This has nothing to do with Zack. Just talking about Cloti as far as the OG is concerned.

I don't disagree. That just has nothing to do with my point which was why Zack was so rejected and hated when Crisis Core came out. And why it took so long for CA's to even give him the time of day. Because nothing that came before indicated he was going to be so important in Aerith's life. I actually shipped ZA after CC but at first it felt like whiplash. Because other than Last Order Zack was in the background or seen as a womanizer. It's just how things were.

 

[tenabrus]

I'm telling you how it was back then. You say that now because you're talking in retospect. The OG didn't really go against it in the way that you think. And stuff like Tactics and Kingdomshearts didn't help. Because it didn't actually paint a case for Zack. Dismantled isn't canon but it's also what was around back then. And Dismantled pushed the idea that Aerith loved Cloud more than Zack and that Cloud had feelings back.Thus people assumed Aerith loved Cloud and that he was her love interest.

It may not be canon that CA is endgame but that's what people literally thought was the case and I'm talking about what the general belief was before CC.

If enough people believe something it really doesn't matter if the something they believe has evidence unfortunately. It was enough to convince the majority and make CT be seen as the under dog.

As someone who was around the fandom from the mid 2000s in fansites and LJ (and a bit of GameFAQs), I would say the tide started shifting a bit earlier, with Advent Children and Kingdom Hearts 2.

You saw a huge influx of fans who never played the original but were interested in these characters coming in and assuming Tifa was the love interest because... Well what else was she? If they had the opportunity to play the OG (which often they did not, because retro media was harder to come by before wide spread emus/ROMs and Steam), they went in knowing Aerith would die and thus weren't as devastatedly in denial as OG players.

Then Crisis Core came and basically went "and Aerith and Zack end up together in the Lifestream the end".

Now it's more lopsided than ever with Remake/Rebirth.

 

[liuliuliu]

1997 to 2007 was a time when no one really questioned CA.

In which part of the world? Or is it just because the internet was not as popular as of today so people didn’t get a chance to argue about this kind of little thing online…
Cause I definitely remember a group of my friends and I talked about this after we first watched AC…and we all by default thought CT was the couple at the end of the game and got super confused…

 

[Yoru]

As someone who was around the fandom from the mid 2000s in fansites and LJ (and a bit of GameFAQs), I would say the tide started shifting a bit earlier, with Advent Children and Kingdom Hearts 2.

100% true. Kingdom Hearts 2 was insane for Tifa popularity. Never understood why to be honest, but a ton of people became fan of her with this game and discovered FF7 after.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

You know, I was thinking about it the other day and it reminds me of something.

You would be surprised by the number of people who never complete games they're buying.

Stats are abyssal.

So we say it as a joke, but I legit think a part of this fandom never actually played the game completely. Kinda the same thing with the younger generation who discovered the game with youtube videos.

And i'm not even talking about people who are just following their feelings. They know the game, it just doesn't click with them.

So yeah, I don't think we're going crazy, it's just that FF7 is loved by so many people, that it's even more personalities to understand.

While this is the case for some. Very specific tiny group in this fandom. Many CAs including myself played OG all the way through. I played it 5 times. And many played Remake and Rebirth. All the way through. Some several times. Including my CA mutuals.

You may be talking about a portion of newer fans who came because of Remake. But if it's before Remake the majority definitely played. But Let's Plays weren't really a thing till more recently so people involved in LTD did play the games.

Aerith fans played CC because they saw Aerith. But some not even all ended up not liking it.

 

[Sacky]

To be honest, a part of my frustration has less to do with Cloti and more to do with the fact that I feel like I’m being gaslit.

I took what the game presented and came away with a conclusion based on that. Then to go online and see people say “No, Aerith is the true love interest” despite everything really makes me feel like I’m sometimes going crazy.

It’s like watching the Lord of the Rings and thinking “Wow. Evil has been vanquished” only to go online and see people going “Sauron totally won in the end”. It would be maddening.

Apart from that, shipping preferences don’t really bother me.

It seriously does feel like we are being gaslit you just see people say stuff like romantic scenes were optional and I just think Gongaga the whole chapter did people somehow miss that? Or Nibelhiem return or even Kalm and under Junon. I'm also surprised by Aeriths confession where she doesn't know what kind of like she's talking about? Or am I misinterpreting that and she just made it confusing for some reason. Rebirth doesn't even seem subtle in the direction it's heading so I'm confused when I see non shippers say this stuff. But even the OG lifestream and Highwind optional or not highwind is intimate in both versions. Lifestream reveals Cloud did everything for Tifa. It's not even shipping anymore it's just trying to stop people from denying the actual plot of the game.

 

[Yoru]

In which part of the world? Or is it just because the internet was not as popular as of today so people didn’t get a chance to argue about this kind of little thing online…
Cause I definitely remember a group of my friends and I talked about this after we first watched AC…and we all by default thought CT was the couple at the end of the game and got super confused…

AC vanilla was such a mess... didn't help this LTD case that's for sure.

While this is the case for some. Very specific tiny group in this fandom. Many CAs including myself played OG all the way through. I played it 5 times. And many played Remake and Rebirth. All the way through. Some several times. Including my CA mutuals.

You may be talking about newer fans who came because of Remake. But if it's before Remake the majority definitely played. But Let's Plays weren't really a thing till more recently so people involved in LTD did play the games.

Well... it's not because you know people that's the case for everyone else if you know what I mean. And we could say the same for what I'm saying too. All I'm saying it's a part of the explanation. Of course there are people who played it since forever. But when I see people arguing about Tifa being the party leader in the next game... I can't trust them if they say they played the game lol.

 

[Sacky]

100% true. Kingdom Hearts 2 was insane for Tifa popularity. Never understood why to be honest, but a ton of people became fan of her with this game and discovered FF7 after.

Kingdom hearts seems very popular for boosting ships I've heard KH1 made a lot of people cleriths?. KH2 she represents Clouds light and Sephiroth Clouds darkness so Love and Kindness Vs Hate and Anger I guess that's what made people a fan? Funny enough this is the same symbolism as Gongaga

 

[GamerSkull]

It seriously does feel like we are being gaslit you just see people say stuff like romantic scenes were optional and I just think Gongaga the whole chapter did people somehow miss that? Or Nibelhiem return or even Kalm and under Junon. I'm also surprised by Aeriths confession where she doesn't know what kind of like she's talking about? Or am I misinterpreting that and she just made it confusing for some reason. Rebirth doesn't even seem subtle in the direction it's heading so I'm confused when I see non shippers say this stuff. But even the OG lifestream and Highwind optional or not highwind is intimate in both versions. Lifestream reveals Cloud did everything for Tifa. It's not even shipping anymore it's just trying to stop people from denying the actual plot of the game.

That’s where a bulk of my frustration lies in particular with the OG.

I see these takes and I think to myself that I must have imagined the dialogue in the Lifestream sequence, and the Highwind scene.

But then I play the game again, see these scenes and am like “Ok, there’s no way I’m misinterpreting this.”

I feel like I’m going nuts sometimes.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

As someone who was around the fandom from the mid 2000s in fansites and LJ (and a bit of GameFAQs), I would say the tide started shifting a bit earlier, with Advent Children and Kingdom Hearts 2.

You saw a huge influx of fans who never played the original but were interested in these characters coming in and assuming Tifa was the love interest because... Well what else was she? If they had the opportunity to play the OG (which often they did not, because retro media was harder to come by before wide spread emus/ROMs and Steam), they went in knowing Aerith would die and thus weren't as devastatedly in denial as OG players.

Then Crisis Core came and basically went "and Aerith and Zack end up together in the Lifestream the end".

Now it's more lopsided than ever with Remake/Rebirth.

I'm talking about the attitude towards Zack here not Tifa. CTs existed back then yes. Of course. But from the perspective of CAs when Crisis Core came out for years they had been convinced Cloud was Aerith's love interest. Nothing before CC had really convinced CA's Zack was her true love interest. Maybe it convinced CTs I don't know. I'm talking about the CA's however the perspective they had during this time.

 

[Yoru]

Kingdom hearts seems very popular for boosting ships I've heard KH1 made a lot of people cleriths?. KH2 she represents Clouds light and Sephiroth Clouds darkness so Love and Kindness Vs Hate and Anger I guess that's what made people a fan? Funny enough this is the same symbolism as Gongaga

I don't really know to be honest. I suppose you're right.

I hate Kingdom Hearts for its depiction of Cloud (love the game otherwise). It really killed his character (imo) and gave us this emo shit for 10+ years. That's not my Cloud and I'm so happy Remake did him justice.

(I'm not mocking emos. I choose the emo life myself. It's just not his character.)

 

[Sacky]

I'm talking about the attitude towards Zack here not Tifa. CTs existed back then yes. Of course. But from the perspective of CAs when Crisis Core came out for years they had been convinced Cloud was Aerith's love interest. Nothing before CC had really convinced CA's Zack was her true love interest. Maybe it convinced CTs I don't know. I'm talking about the CA's however the perspective they had during this time.

Is this why a lot of people try to say CC isn't canon? The lore of the LTD is very interesting

 

[tenabrus]

I'm talking about the attitude towards Zack here not Tifa. CTs existed back then yes. Of course. But from the perspective of CAs when Crisis Core came out for years they had been convinced Cloud was Aerith's love interest. Nothing before CC had really convinced CA's Zack was her true love interest. Maybe it convinced CTs I don't know. I'm talking about the CA's however the perspective they had during this time.

Oh absolutely. Zack as a viable option was CC. Before he barely even factored into CT arguments the way he does now.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

AC vanilla was such a mess... didn't help this LTD case that's for sure.

Well... it's not because you know people that's the case for everyone else if you know what I mean. And we could say the same for what I'm saying too. All I'm saying it's a part of the explanation. Of course there are people who played it since forever. But when I see people arguing about Tifa being the party leader in the next game... I can't trust them if they say they played the game lol.

Yeah what I think you're referring to is more the newer wave of fans that came in with Remake who originally didn't know what FF7 was. Not a lot of the newer, younger generation interested in Remake would have played OG. However the fandom has many types of fans you have veteran fans and newer fans. My mutuals would count as veterans.

 

[GamerSkull]

To be honest, I ship Zerith separately from Cloti.

If Cloti never existed, I probably would still like Zerith.

I think I see many say that Zerith shippers are just Cloti shippers so Aerith is out of the way but I take offense at that. I genuinely ship both couples, and one isn’t an excuse ship by any means.