SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
PPSSPP my friend. If they're not making it available, ways and means are entirely ethical.
Yeah, I gotta start using emulators. I always refrain because I’m either scared of legal trouble or I’m not tech-savvy enough (I’m bad with tech) to do it properly. But I should still try.

But yes, I know there is all sorts of cope about Gongaga. Feels good, man.

Yeah, in regards to both Cloud and Tifa. Even the actual sequence within the Lifestream has some romantic undertones like the longing with “Cloud, I need you.” And the angst of “Your words can no longer reach him.” These are quite obviously setups that you simply cannot ignore. They are gonna have pay offs.

And from Cloud’s side, being pretty incapacitated but immediately getting up and running to help Tifa… to his Darth Vader scream when he thinks she’s died.

You cannot ignore those. Except… by inhaling copium.
 

nepheneethedestroyer

Lv. 25 Adventurer
The image of tifa taking care of a comatose Cloud is for me the most viscerally powerful image in ffvii so can't relate. Infact, I kinda don't like seeing it played out on a smaller scale in rebirth. I always think back of a video I know where a policeman was shot in the head and was in a wheelchair unable to eat or speak or move or even think. The image of his young wife taking care of him despite him essentially being long gone, her devoting her life to caring for him simply because that's is/was the man she loves was so powerful to me that I never forgot it. I always think about it when I see tifa make the decision to stay with cloud despite not knowing if he'll ever wake up, despite the planet ending. Is just such a powerful display of love that I want to change nothing about it. I just want them to make it as shockingly impact full as possible

I think this will still happen, and I want it to happen too (well, I want to see it, I don't want to see Tifa devastated lol) but I do think Tifa will probably actively seek out Dr. Sheiran...after he tells her that there isn't really anything he can do she'll choose to stay, though. It's a minor beat but it makes sense to me that Tifa would actively try to search for solutions first before committing to staying by his side even if it seems hopeless. Really I'm just basing this off of the fact that they explicitly introduce this new character in ToTP and Rebirth though, it's not especially relevant to Tifa or Cloud's journey.
 
Last edited:

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
Now I'm morbidly curious what other fandom Cali from Ohio was so nuts about to pull this shit on.

I'm with you, is it the same kind of crazy she had in this fandom? Is that how she fit even more insanity into her presumably limited noggin space?

It would definitely be very direct and unambiguous, that's for sure.

But it's player choice!!1. Ahhh classic.

Why Cloud, though? It's OG versions of anyone why not Zack as the blue WEAPON, going out to do his bro a solid?

If it were Zack I'd half expect him to breach like an attacking great white through the Forgotten Capital floor to save Aerith. Or break his WEAPON skull trying.

ZA makes Cleriths furious. So many of them still hate Crisis Core. So yes, Aerith explicitly stating she wants her dark haired boy back would probably deal it and the Cleriths themselves the most harm.

I once knew a lady in Oklahoma who truly believed Zack and Cloud were deeply romantically in love but too straight to act on it until they could put Aerith between them. Funny enough their description of this OT3 was extremely sweet, jyst hilariously non-canon.

Yeah, they set that particular gun on the mantle for a reason and we are headed into the third act.
Loaded and ready to fire. It's poor gun safety, but Rebirth shows that's not much of a problem for Tifa at least :awesome:


I'll bet. It's fascinating to explore that with someone in person and real time, though, dig into the wherefores of their reasons and all that.

Ever talk to a genuine white Christian nationalist face to face? There's a similar feeling of "back away slowly" to it.
But Mary Sue is a bad word to say nowadays because it's demeaning to women. Nevermind a woman came up with the term and there's Gary Stu's as well.

Funny, I heard a similar argument not long ago from someone,what was her name? Fuck it, we'll just call her Karen :awesome: For reals though, I have always used both Mary Sue and Karen in a gender neutral context so meh.

It's a bit Eldar, a bit Goa'uld, yeah.

I might posit that it leans a tiny bit more Goa'uld if anything. Though if you stuck a glowy scythe on it I'd say Necon, from one of the... "saner" dynasties.

I actually banned a couple she registered before any posts were made. I'd log in, do a search for her IP, and pre-emptively ban any new accounts that were created with it.

I remember you matter of fact informing her if the fact once or twice. Epic.

So you see, Denzel is 8 years old as of Final Fantasy Advent Children. You know what else is 8 years before final fantasy advent children? Cloud leaving town to try and join SOLDIER. And what happened a few months BEFORE Cloud leavintg town? The water tower confession...
And I'll do the rest another time. It's a simple bit, but it's good fun.

See, never gets old.

When I used it, I at least tried to go "Common sense would tell us X" whereas I think she always said things like "Cloud is searching for Aerith because of romance. It's just common sense." and end the thought there.

Exactly, she never learned what it actually means. She seemed to think it was very long punctuation :awesomonster:

It was an ordinary feather the entire time. The magic was in you all along.

You could have gone home at any time Dorothy.

Now you got me thinking. Cloud is a Spider and Tifa is his MJ before Quesada fucked things up (seriously, let that marriage re-happen and let Pete grow into a middle aged adult. We have Miles now), Zack and Aerith are Scott and Jean. Now I want to figure out which Marvel (and DC) heroes the rest of the cast are.

Bold added by me for emphasis. Can I nominate Barrett for Ben Grimm? Big intimidating teddy bear, smarter than he lets on, takes a familial role to impressionable young hotheads with enormous raw talent (Peter Parker/Johnny Storm, Cloud/Yuffie). I can easily see him proclaiming it to be clobberin' time.

I aim to be what's coming around indeed.

There are few aspirations more worthy.

Did you enjoy it via DarkId's LPs?

Absolutely. I also took a more serious look at it later, of course, though Id was always informative enough in addition to being hilarious.

Have you heard about the... hilarious? goings on with him?

Is there news? Last I heard out of TheDarkId was the Shadowhearts 2 LP, and a lot of that was heartbreaking even as the LP was top shelf.

Despite the lava seeping in still they drill.

I just hear Trump yelling "drill baby drill" again. It's fitting... but fucked.

We could just make a logo of it. What font would you use?

I'm open to suggestions. I'm thinking something fancy enough to read as mildly condescending seems fitting.

Her takes were very unusual and she couldn't back them up with any instances from the games or dev quotes, so yeah.

Same old shit, yep.

It definitely sounds familiar, you're right.

Not senile yet! Or we both are.

Fair. My head is just built for timey wimey bullshit I suppose.

Actually this is a lie, though it is a very useful lie :awesome: I'm actually pretty decent at timeline shenanigans, I just need a framework of some kind. Which set of alternate timeline tropes are we working with? Once I have that I'll think on it for reals, until then it'd feel like too much guesswork to me. And there's nothing wrong with educated guesses, I just don't feel like it, especially seeing all the vitriol that should be in this thread showing up over that instead. LTD apparently stands for Lifestream/Timeline Debate now.

Well that's because the conclusion works against their ship.

They'd burn the evidence, but then they'd have to acknowledge it.

And her flowers, which grow in her church, now mark his grave site instead. This is basic bitch symbolism people.

A good example for the interwebs that Basic =\= Bad.

I have the role of GLD's legal counsel. If you would like to apply for a position as an intern interviews open at the end of the school year.

Be aware future applicants that my role is actually punishing the wicked (tempting people to sin is a side hustle/hobby(. Ergo, you'll be working for the prosecution, not the defense :awesome:

But yes, I know there is all sorts of cope about Gongaga. Feels good, man.

Someone play Tony, Toni, Tone up in here while we dance in the blood tears of our foes :reapermon:

Edit: Hit post too soon
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
But it's player choice!!1. Ahhh classic.
“It’s player choice…but actually CA is canon. So it’s not player choice.”

It’s funny how they immediately go to “player choice” when seeing stuff like the gondola kiss but then still confidently say CA is canon after reading the Ultimania. Whatever happened to player choice?

Also yeah, the Rebirth spoiler thread is bonkers. I remember giving my take and providing an argument and being accused of deflecting.

Like… no, Aerith coming back to life is not the same as Gandalf coming back to life. So while it’s acceptable for the latter, it doesn’t make the former acceptable,

Not only is it a different situation entirely, but LOTR doesn’t have the same central themes as FF7 so it’s thematically different. (Sorry had to vent lol)

I’m kinda scared to see how bad the thread is now.
 

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
Last off topic for a bit, I just looked up TheDarkId hilarity and I'm torn between being angry, sad, and shrugging it off to just enjoy his classic LPs anyway.

Ffs is nothing real?
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I’d argue that we are much calmer here. There’s some serious craziness in that thread right now. But maybe that’s because everyone disagrees there so it’s come to mudslinging.

We all pretty much agree here. So that’s why it’s not so bad.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
“It’s player choice…but actually CA is canon. So it’s not player choice.”

It’s funny how they immediately go to “player choice” when seeing stuff like the gondola kiss but then still confidently say CA is canon after reading the Ultimania. Whatever happened to player choice?

Also yeah, the Rebirth spoiler thread is bonkers. I remember giving my take and providing an argument and being accused of deflecting.

Like… no, Aerith coming back to life is not the same as Gandalf coming back to life. So while it’s acceptable for the latter, it doesn’t make the former acceptable,

Not only is it a different situation entirely, but LOTR doesn’t have the same central themes as FF7 so it’s thematically different. (Sorry had to vent lol)

I’m kinda scared to see how bad the thread is now.
i went on it for a bit but its like the same 3 people making long ass threads about there one theory and then saying no any other theory is wrong its multiple timelines with beagle aerith and pug Cloud??? theres like no discussion there to be had
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
To me it reads that they wanted to make them all stand on their own and none above the rest. That's how they feel afterall.
Honestly, I think I may agree. They're all important. Which we already knew.

But I'm glad at least that you cannot argue any one of them is more canon or non-canon than the others. All or nothing, basically.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Yeah, I gotta start using emulators. I always refrain because I’m either scared of legal trouble or I’m not tech-savvy enough (I’m bad with tech) to do it properly. But I should still try.
PPSSPP is pretty painless. If you have a computer it can probably run it.

Yeah, in regards to both Cloud and Tifa. Even the actual sequence within the Lifestream has some romantic undertones like the longing with “Cloud, I need you.” And the angst of “Your words can no longer reach him.” These are quite obviously setups that you simply cannot ignore. They are gonna have pay offs.

And from Cloud’s side, being pretty incapacitated but immediately getting up and running to help Tifa… to his Darth Vader scream when he thinks she’s died.

You cannot ignore those. Except… by inhaling copium.
It's also quite interesting to draw focus to Cloud freaking out even thinking Tifa died and then extremely downplay his reaction to Aerith's death at the climax. I suppose that might just because they're saving it for Pt 3 but it's still an interesting change in focus.

I'm with you, is it the same kind of crazy she had in this fandom? Is that how she fit even more insanity into her presumably limited noggin space?
New Fandom, Classic Insanity! Same terrible taste!

But it's player choice!!1. Ahhh classic.
So classic.

If it were Zack I'd half expect him to breach like an attacking great white through the Forgotten Capital floor to save Aerith. Or break his WEAPON skull trying.
Yeah, that fits the boy.

I once knew a lady in Oklahoma who truly believed Zack and Cloud were deeply romantically in love but too straight to act on it until they could put Aerith between them. Funny enough their description of this OT3 was extremely sweet, jyst hilariously non-canon.
It takes all kinds.

Loaded and ready to fire. It's poor gun safety, but Rebirth shows that's not much of a problem for Tifa at least :awesome:
She's ready to fire that particular gun many many times.

Ever talk to a genuine white Christian nationalist face to face? There's a similar feeling of "back away slowly" to it.
Don't know about white christian nationalist specifically, but christian nationalist most definitely.

Funny, I heard a similar argument not long ago from someone,what was her name? Fuck it, we'll just call her Karen :awesome: For reals though, I have always used both Mary Sue and Karen in a gender neutral context so meh.
Also entirely fair.

I might posit that it leans a tiny bit more Goa'uld if anything. Though if you stuck a glowy scythe on it I'd say Necon, from one of the... "saner" dynasties.
'er' being the operative syllable there. And yeah, has a bit of the pop science egyptian motif going.

I remember you matter of fact informing her if the fact once or twice. Epic.
It just. Kept. Happening.

See, never gets old.
- Tips the tophat jauntily-

Exactly, she never learned what it actually means. She seemed to think it was very long punctuation :awesomonster:
It was magic words to her.

Bold added by me for emphasis. Can I nominate Barrett for Ben Grimm? Big intimidating teddy bear, smarter than he lets on, takes a familial role to impressionable young hotheads with enormous raw talent (Peter Parker/Johnny Storm, Cloud/Yuffie). I can easily see him proclaiming it to be clobberin' time.
Grimm is definitely a fit. Logan for Red?

Absolutely. I also took a more serious look at it later, of course, though Id was always informative enough in addition to being hilarious.
I agree he was very funny when writing LPs

Is there news? Last I heard out of TheDarkId was the Shadowhearts 2 LP, and a lot of that was heartbreaking even as the LP was top shelf.
Yeah, problem is almost all the heartbreak was fake.


I just hear Trump yelling "drill baby drill" again. It's fitting... but fucked.
Ain't it just.

I'm open to suggestions. I'm thinking something fancy enough to read as mildly condescending seems fitting.
Something with some fancy serifs, perhaps?

Not senile yet! Or we both are.
If not those exact words, several people have told her to read her own quotations for comprehension because she could manage to get the exact opposite information out of a direct statement. It was amazing in a macabre sort of way.

Actually this is a lie, though it is a very useful lie :awesome: I'm actually pretty decent at timeline shenanigans, I just need a framework of some kind. Which set of alternate timeline tropes are we working with? Once I have that I'll think on it for reals, until then it'd feel like too much guesswork to me. And there's nothing wrong with educated guesses, I just don't feel like it, especially seeing all the vitriol that should be in this thread showing up over that instead. LTD apparently stands for Lifestream/Timeline Debate now.
I'll let them know about the need to change the thread title over there.

They'd burn the evidence, but then they'd have to acknowledge it.
And fail to destroy it even then.

A good example for the interwebs that Basic =\= Bad.
Basic means simple, it means straightforward. It means fundamental.

Be aware future applicants that my role is actually punishing the wicked (tempting people to sin is a side hustle/hobby(. Ergo, you'll be working for the prosecution, not the defense :awesome:
On the upside you do get to put Shaitan on your business cards.

Someone play Tony, Toni, Tone up in here while we dance in the blood tears of our foes :reapermon:

Edit: Hit post too soon
When they cry tears, it's both at once.

“It’s player choice…but actually CA is canon. So it’s not player choice.”

It’s funny how they immediately go to “player choice” when seeing stuff like the gondola kiss but then still confidently say CA is canon after reading the Ultimania. Whatever happened to player choice?

Also yeah, the Rebirth spoiler thread is bonkers. I remember giving my take and providing an argument and being accused of deflecting.

Like… no, Aerith coming back to life is not the same as Gandalf coming back to life. So while it’s acceptable for the latter, it doesn’t make the former acceptable,

Not only is it a different situation entirely, but LOTR doesn’t have the same central themes as FF7 so it’s thematically different. (Sorry had to vent lol)

I’m kinda scared to see how bad the thread is now.
Gandalf was never a mortal to begin with. He always was and will be a Maiar. He came back to life because he never technically died. Aerith is not a Maiar.

Last off topic for a bit, I just looked up TheDarkId hilarity and I'm torn between being angry, sad, and shrugging it off to just enjoy his classic LPs anyway.

Ffs is nothing real?
I must admit, I never thought any of it was real, but I always thought it was part of an act. It wasn't until much later I realized he wanted people to believe him for reals.
 
Last edited:

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Gandalf was never a mortal to begin with. He always was and will be a Maiar. He came back to life because he never technically died. Aerith is not a Maiar.
Yeah, I said it wasn't the same situation. But even if it was, FFVII's central theme is the idea of loss, acceptance, and knowing they are still alive in some capacity. Whereas, LOTR has different themes.

For another example, death and resurrection in Final Fantasy is not the same as death and resurrection in Dragon Ball.

Because of a thematic focus, a resurrection in the former would be harder to accept than a resurrection in the latter.

This is what I said and was met with an accusation of deflecting. Saying that I was changing the subject in order to avoid saying that Aerith being brought back alive is the same as Gandalf being brought back alive and if we can accept it in LOTR, we should be able to accept it in FF7 apparently. That thread is wild.

Does that make sense? I feel like I vomited word salad.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Yeah, I said it wasn't the same situation. But even if it was, FFVII's central theme is the idea of loss, acceptance, and knowing they are still alive in some capacity. Whereas, LOTR has different themes.

For another example, death and resurrection in Final Fantasy is not the same as death and resurrection in Dragon Ball.

Because of a thematic focus, a resurrection in the former would be harder to accept than a resurrection in the latter.

This is what I said and was met with an accusation of deflecting. Saying that I was changing the subject in order to avoid saying that Aerith being brought back alive is the same as Gandalf being brought back alive and if we can accept it in LOTR, we should be able to accept it in FF7 apparently. That thread is wild.

Does that make sense? I feel like I vomited word salad.
All of that makes sense to me, and I agree, if any sort of resurrection of Aerith is ever to happen in Retrilogy it's going to be a Crono Trigger style where we secretly prevented the death in the first place because shennannigans, not a return from actual death.
 

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
@GamerSkull Either you're making sense or I speak word salad like a Fallout orotag with 2 INT. I've killed enough brain cells arguing in threads like this that either could be true, but i'll hedge my bets on sense.

PPSSPP is pretty painless. If you have a computer it can probably run it.

I used to have a rule to only emulate games I had at some point in my life spent money on. Funny the memories this thread is shaking loose of late.

It's also quite interesting to draw focus to Cloud freaking out even thinking Tifa died and then extremely downplay his reaction to Aerith's death at the climax. I suppose that might just because they're saving it for Pt 3 but it's still an interesting change in focus.

My money is on the save it for part 3, but it could easily be meant to draw notice as well. Especially with the plot fuckery around Aerith's death.

New Fandom, Classic Insanity! Same terrible taste!

This is so on brand for this thread title. We may be in the New Coke era, but it's Classic that really sells.

Yeah, that fits the boy.

Inorite? Capture him, experiment on him, kill him, throw his essence across timelines, make him a daikaiju fish monster. He's still coming for his girl.

It takes all kinds.

Truth. Like I said, I actually found their vision touching, I think I encouraged them to write the story they were seeing minus the FFVII characters.

She's ready to fire that particular gun many many times.

Speaking of going off many times, my new hope for the UTH scene has the heavy kissing under the anchored ship, followed by awakening the next morning in the chocobo stables. That way I can read into it that this has been a roving wordless love declaration that's been all over the ship. And when we're feeling especially petty, we can point out that in Rebirth Cloud didn't offer Aerith a ride on the Highwind, but he definitely took Tifa on a ride all over the Highwind :awesome:

Don't know about white christian nationalist specifically, but christian nationalist most definitely.

If anything non-white Christian nationalists come across as even more Leopards Eating People's Faces Party than WCN do. Either way, you know the feeling I speak of.

'er' being the operative syllable there. And yeah, has a bit of the pop science egyptian motif going.

Well if I went through what the Necrontyr did on the way to becoming the Necrons, I'd likely come out the other side as a Flayed One or other even less sane class, so I'm not gonna throw too much shade at the saner individuals even if you are 100% correct on the operative syllable.

And now it's reminding me if something else with an Egyptian flavor but I can't place it. Not Heavy Metal but something from the late 80s-early 90s animated scene with a broadly similar low fantasy/pulp/sci-fi punk anthology feel. Shit this is gonna bug me till it comes back to me.

It just. Kept. Happening.

Same actions, same results, repeat. Insanity.

- Tips the tophat jauntily-

I should wear my top hat more often.

It was magic words to her.

Wait, was it her flavor for casting Taunt? It certainly had effects similar to the 2E version of that spell whenever she said it.

Grimm is definitely a fit. Logan for Red?

Grimm fits Barrett like an orange rocky glove, though I think Logan is too grim fir Nanaki :awesome: Though Logan on his better days is a good fit for Nanaki's "wise old bluff soldier" act. Though I think mid 90s Hank McCoy might fit even better.

I agree he was very funny when writing LPs

He and ChoroRojo/RedChocobo were my LP jam way back. I miss screenshot LPs, most everyone just wants to video/stream these days.

Yeah, problem is almost all the heartbreak was fake.

So I found out. Still kinda pissed, like fuck man I sat staring at the wall and had a tear or two fall. But fuck it, my heartbreak was genuine even if the cause wasn't. I've lost nothing.

Something with some fancy serifs, perhaps?

You think Sans Serif is going to far, or is it not too far enough?


If not those exact words, several people have told her to read her own quotations for comprehension because she could manage to get the exact opposite information out of a direct statement. It was amazing in a macabre sort of way.

Macabre is a fun word that needs more love. Also highly appropriate here.


I'll let them know about the need to change the thread title over there.

Please do, although your entry into that thread seems to have had a mild calming effect. So far at least :monster:

And fail to destroy it even then.

It is hard to fully burn something you're desperate not to look at.

Basic means simple, it means straightforward. It means fundamental.

Agreed, and yet the world as a whole seems determined to use it as an insult. Which conditionally it can be, if you're implying that something is entirely basic with no further effort put in, but increasingly often that is not how it's used. Improper word usage bugs me.

On the upside you do get to put Shaitan on your business cards.

Perks is perks, take 'em when you can get 'em kids :reapermon:

When they cry tears, it's both at once.

Well that sounds like a medical condition they should look into.

I must admit, I never thought any of it was real, but I always thought it was part of an act. It wasn't until much later I realized he wanted people to believe him for reals.

I had never even heard half this nonsense before today. All the ex-special forces/super-spy wife/etc. If I had I'd have thought he was doing a bit, sorta like when Mumble used to get in character of whatever Avatar they were using at any given time but more committed.

What bugs me us looking back at moments where he talked about being a dad. They felt real. They resonated with me. When Papa Nier us talking about doing absolutely any horrible shit being worth it to see Yonah smile, and he has a "QFFT" moment over it, I believed that. Ah well, it's no less true just because the person who said it was playing a character. Also kinda sounds like he may have legit mental health issues if he's that into this shit, here's hoping he gets some help.

Also, I'm looking back on this frighteningly off topic conversation we've been having in the margins and remembering why you (and to a lesser extent I) tended to get a nomination at the TLS Awards for derailing threads :monster:
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
A bit off-topic but I figured I'd ask here because we discussed it earlier here. @Ryushikaze

If I do use an emulator for Dissidia... do I play both or is 012 Duodecim all I need?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
What do you all make of this?

View attachment 15797
Everyone got the same amount of attention and care when having their scene crafted.

I used to have a rule to only emulate games I had at some point in my life spent money on. Funny the memories this thread is shaking loose of late.
The topic has ironically been a pillar of our lives, and memory works very strongly with anchors like that.

My money is on the save it for part 3, but it could easily be meant to draw notice as well. Especially with the plot fuckery around Aerith's death.
I do think it's bit of both really.

This is so on brand for this thread title. We may be in the New Coke era, but it's Classic that really sells.
Aye aye.

Inorite? Capture him, experiment on him, kill him, throw his essence across timelines, make him a daikaiju fish monster. He's still coming for his girl.
Because that's what heros do.
Now I want to see FF7 but Tiger and Bunny style.

Truth. Like I said, I actually found their vision touching, I think I encouraged them to write the story they were seeing minus the FFVII characters.
Yeah, divorcing a good story from a specific fandom or setting can be the best thing for it, even if it originated in one.

Speaking of going off many times, my new hope for the UTH scene has the heavy kissing under the anchored ship, followed by awakening the next morning in the chocobo stables. That way I can read into it that this has been a roving wordless love declaration that's been all over the ship. And when we're feeling especially petty, we can point out that in Rebirth Cloud didn't offer Aerith a ride on the Highwind, but he definitely took Tifa on a ride all over the Highwind :awesome:
Yuffie can even worry that they did it ... On her bunk.

If anything non-white Christian nationalists come across as even more Leopards Eating People's Faces Party than WCN do. Either way, you know the feeling I speak of.
Not sure whether to keep prodding and watching the crazy pour forth or to back away because you know the crazy will eventually try and eat your face.

Well if I went through what the Necrontyr did on the way to becoming the Necrons, I'd likely come out the other side as a Flayed One or other even less sane class, so I'm not gonna throw too much shade at the saner individuals even if you are 100% correct on the operative syllable.
Given the setting, it's the operative syllable for everyone, regardless of your faction.

And now it's reminding me if something else with an Egyptian flavor but I can't place it. Not Heavy Metal but something from the late 80s-early 90s animated scene with a broadly similar low fantasy/pulp/sci-fi punk anthology feel. Shit this is gonna bug me till it comes back to me.
Maybe X-men, one of Apocalypse's minions? Do you recall anything about the linework or the shading?

Same actions, same results, repeat. Insanity.
I don't know why she kept doing it. Compulsion? Evidence of our cruelty despite my only ever banning the extra accounts?

I should wear my top hat more often.
Absolutely. Especially to the movie theater for as long as possible.

Wait, was it her flavor for casting Taunt? It certainly had effects similar to the 2E version of that spell whenever she said it.
I think she thought it added +10 to her diplomacy rolls. It actually gave her -20. Cumulative.

Grimm fits Barrett like an orange rocky glove, though I think Logan is too grim fir Nanaki :awesome: Though Logan on his better days is a good fit for Nanaki's "wise old bluff soldier" act. Though I think mid 90s Hank McCoy might fit even better.
I was thinking the "Older than he looks, trying way too hard to come across that way" as well. I don't know about 90s Hank, though.
Cannonball. That's who he is. He's a lot smarter than you'd think and unlike sister Paige he eventually realizes he can show that without having to hide the signs of his heritage (or his youthfulness in Nanaki's case)

He and ChoroRojo/RedChocobo were my LP jam way back. I miss screenshot LPs, most everyone just wants to video/stream these days.
There are still some, but yes, they are few and far between.

So I found out. Still kinda pissed, like fuck man I sat staring at the wall and had a tear or two fall. But fuck it, my heartbreak was genuine even if the cause wasn't. I've lost nothing.
I am genuinely curious what his thought process was throughout. Did it start as just jokes and he got in way too deep, was he trying way too hard to come across as cool? Why did he think people were going to buy the 30 man hit squad on Prince Edward Island?

You think Sans Serif is going to far, or is it not too far enough?
Much like the .3% titanium tax, it doesn't go too far enough.

Macabre is a fun word that needs more love. Also highly appropriate here.
Agreed.

Please do, although your entry into that thread seems to have had a mild calming effect. So far at least :monster:
I shall indeed. Perhaps on the morrow.

It is hard to fully burn something you're desperate not to look at.
Especially after you've been burned so many times before. You start losing feeling.

Agreed, and yet the world as a whole seems determined to use it as an insult. Which conditionally it can be, if you're implying that something is entirely basic with no further effort put in, but increasingly often that is not how it's used. Improper word usage bugs me.
It's primarily the fault of "Basic white bitch" and later "basic bitch" being used derogatorily, I think.
Never doubt the power of language to be shaped by spite and negative feelings. It's why the euphemism treadmill is a thing and why trying to legislate away bad words never fucking works.

Perks is perks, take 'em when you can get 'em kids :reapermon:
Heck, open the console and add a few more in.

Well that sounds like a medical condition they should look into.
Condition, curse, karma, all the same really.

I had never even heard half this nonsense before today. All the ex-special forces/super-spy wife/etc. If I had I'd have thought he was doing a bit, sorta like when Mumble used to get in character of whatever Avatar they were using at any given time but more committed.
Exactly. I thought it was like when he "got his kids" to do drawings for his LPs. And then I realized the new stuff was "oh wait, no this is supposed to be real" and then I realized "Oh wait the drawings in the LPs were stuff he wanted us to think was real too."

What bugs me us looking back at moments where he talked about being a dad. They felt real. They resonated with me. When Papa Nier us talking about doing absolutely any horrible shit being worth it to see Yonah smile, and he has a "QFFT" moment over it, I believed that. Ah well, it's no less true just because the person who said it was playing a character. Also kinda sounds like he may have legit mental health issues if he's that into this shit, here's hoping he gets some help.
Same. I am curious if any of it was real, but not enough to really dig into anything.

Also, I'm looking back on this frighteningly off topic conversation we've been having in the margins and remembering why you (and to a lesser extent I) tended to get a nomination at the TLS Awards for derailing threads :monster:
A topic will go where it will go. Sometimes that is into a newly created thread.

A bit off-topic but I figured I'd ask here because we discussed it earlier here. @Ryushikaze

If I do use an emulator for Dissidia... do I play both or is 012 Duodecim all I need?

If you want to experience the story, you can get buy with 012. It includes both story modes. However, there is a difference between the way the stories play out mechanically between the games, so if you're curious about that it's worth getting Dissidia as well and playing it first. I think certain small bits of the game are not included in 012? It's more a judgement call than a definitive answer. If you can see if you can get "prologue" the demo too as IIRC it might have a bit of unique story and provides some tiny extras to 012 (Aerith as a summon because Maaya is also Lightning, natch)
 
Last edited:

Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
The topic has ironically been a pillar of our lives, and memory works very strongly with anchors like that.

Look guys, the LTD is doing something useful. Truly the end is nigh.

I do think it's bit of both really.

Ever has it been my experience that when faced with two options, the correct answer is most often "bit of both" :monster: Though as the topic of this thread will show, the bits may not be equal.

Because that's what heros do.
Now I want to see FF7 but Tiger and Bunny style.

That'd find an audience but quick.


Yeah, divorcing a good story from a specific fandom or setting can be the best thing for it, even if it originated in one.

Absolutely.


Yuffie can even worry that they did it ... On her bunk.

Oh, if I were in the writing room I'd make this a funny background detail, with an unusually silent Yuffie just staring at her bunk looking suspicious and disgruntled.


Not sure whether to keep prodding and watching the crazy pour forth or to back away because you know the crazy will eventually try and eat your face.

I'd like to say sanity prevails and I back away before it's too late... but sometimes the urge to prod is simply too great.

Given the setting, it's the operative syllable for everyone, regardless of your faction.

Doing absurdly batshit things is your only hope of prolonging the existence of your race/life in general. Are you crazy, it is reality? The answer of course is yes :monster: At least da Boyz iz haffin' fun widdit.

Maybe X-men, one of Apocalypse's minions? Do you recall anything about the linework or the shading?

Pretty sure it wasn't Apocalypse related, although that is another good example of the visual motif. I'm second guessing myself now that I'm thinking of something more recent but throwback-ish. Art style and animation somewhere between Heavy Metal and Primal. No one irl remembers it so it was probably something I saw during a lonely insomnia... night? Week? Who knows at this point?

I don't know why she kept doing it. Compulsion? Evidence of our cruelty despite my only ever banning the extra accounts?

The accusatory tone she always took seemed to be an attempt to paint you as the villain of the piece to me. Of course when she got precisely 0 sympathy from us all, you'd think she'd give up. How long did it take for her to take her ball and go home anyway? I believe I was away at the time.

Absolutely. Especially to the movie theater for as long as possible.

It's even better at live performances :awesome:

I think she thought it added +10 to her diplomacy rolls. It actually gave her -20. Cumulative.

There's a Wild Magic Sorcerer joke here with a buff attempt becoming Taunt by mistake. Hmmm... This could be an enjoyable NPC, possibly a low level quest giver. Things to ponder, though my players are far from low level. Maybe roomie could use it for her high seas pirate campaign.

I was thinking the "Older than he looks, trying way too hard to come across that way" as well. I don't know about 90s Hank, though.
Cannonball. That's who he is. He's a lot smarter than you'd think and unlike sister Paige he eventually realizes he can show that without having to hide the signs of his heritage (or his youthfulness in Nanaki's case)

I sorta hate how well that fits, but it fits. Give Cannonball fangs and claws and his fight scenes might almost resemble Nanaki.

For Cait, wasn't there a reasonably important character in Iron Man's stable that fits his quirky espionage with a side of mechanical utility but? Or am I just thinking of Kid!Tony?

Trying to come up with someone for Aerith and coming up blank as beats though.

There are still some, but yes, they are few and far between.

Too few, too far. And I honestly find most streams grating very quickly, even by creators I otherwise like. I'll never not love TFS, but watching them play games is only fun for me in small doses. Thank fuck for MKIceandFire and other no commentary long players.

I am genuinely curious what his thought process was throughout. Did it start as just jokes and he got in way too deep, was he trying way too hard to come across as cool? Why did he think people were going to buy the 30 man hit squad on Prince Edward Island?

The funny thing is he seemed savvy and aware enough mocking various "what the christ?" video game moments it's hard to believe he'd actually think anyone would buy any of it. Let alone a bunch of goons.

Much like the .3% titanium tax, it doesn't go too far enough.

We're so happy that you got that :monster: Seriously Futurama references go over more and more heads every year.

Especially after you've been burned so many times before. You start losing feeling.

Start with burning evidence, becomes a reference to them getting burned which is itself a sick burn. It works on so many levels, well played sir.

It's primarily the fault of "Basic white bitch" and later "basic bitch" being used derogatorily, I think.
Never doubt the power of language to be shaped by spite and negative feelings. It's why the euphemism treadmill is a thing and why trying to legislate away bad words never fucking works.

Never doubt the power of spite and negative feelings to shape anything humanity does.

Heck, open the console and add a few more in.

Make sure you grab Bloody Mess while you're at it, but watch out for the Bethesda Bloat from all the giblets. ...I miss New Vegas.

Condition, curse, karma, all the same really.

Conditional Curse Caused by Karma! Which is also my new band name, I called dibs :headbang:

Exactly. I thought it was like when he "got his kids" to do drawings for his LPs. And then I realized "oh wait, no this is real" and then I realized "Oh wait the drawings in the LPs were stuff he wanted us to think was real too."

I fell for those "kid drawings" at first. I'm a sap.

Same. I am curious if any of it was real, but not enough to really dig into anything.

Sorta concerned what one might find if we did. I'm my experience, bad trips often hide down such rabbit holes.

A topic will go where it will go. Sometimes that is into a newly created thread.

At least some of this is still LTD related. We haven't quite hit peak flow of consciousness derail just yet.
 

Shadowfox

You look like you need a monkey
I'm trying to remember the affection scoresheet. Was it that really terrible set of JPGs that came out around AC or am I thinking of something else?

It was the list they made up of Cloud's in-game behaviour towards the women with points assigned to each so that once all the scores were tallied up, there'd be quantitative proof of who he likes/loves more. Like, when Cloud greets the woman it's worth 1 point each time; when he mentions her name it's worth another point; and when he expresses concern for her that's another point, etc. Except that when it came time to actually using the scoresheet, they kept coming up with flimsy and logic breaking excuses to avoid awarding points equally towards the two women. For example, Cloud said "Hello/Good morning" to Aerith, so that's 1 point in her favour; but him saying the same thing to Tifa isn't worth any points because he's only doing it to be polite, not that he actually likes her.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Yeah, I said it wasn't the same situation. But even if it was, FFVII's central theme is the idea of loss, acceptance, and knowing they are still alive in some capacity. Whereas, LOTR has different themes.

For another example, death and resurrection in Final Fantasy is not the same as death and resurrection in Dragon Ball.

Because of a thematic focus, a resurrection in the former would be harder to accept than a resurrection in the latter.

This is what I said and was met with an accusation of deflecting. Saying that I was changing the subject in order to avoid saying that Aerith being brought back alive is the same as Gandalf being brought back alive and if we can accept it in LOTR, we should be able to accept it in FF7 apparently. That thread is wild.

Does that make sense? I feel like I vomited word salad.
The idea that a resurrection in FFVII is the same as the resurrection of Gandalf is ludicrous, and I'll do you one better.
The MOMENT you brought it up one reply earlier my mind also went "take dragonball for example", so that definitely isn't deflecting as I had the EXACT same thought :P

"Common sense would tell us X"
My version of this is " because DUH"

All of that makes sense to me, and I agree, if any sort of resurrection of Aerith is ever to happen in Retrilogy it's going to be a Crono Trigger style where we secretly prevented the death in the first place because shennannigans, not a return from actual death.

Wouldn't be any better from a thematic standpoint. "oh no, don't worry guys, we didn't bring her back, she actually just never died in the first place". It runs afoul of the same message, which is that the dead are dead. The same problems with kids thinking the dead would come back because that's what they always see in movies would still apply, grandma isn't really dead, because people are never really dead, they always come back. This is why I vehemently oppose the "you'll always have the OG" narrative. The game is more than a set of 1s and 0s, they're a set of themes and ideas. If Aerith is brought back in remake in any shape or form then the OG id dead because its' message is dead. And yes, Gandalf is actually pretty relevant there because I cannot watch fellowship as I did before I knew that gandalf survived. The two towers effectively destroyed THAT version of the movie specifically. Now that doesn't matter as much since fellowship doesn't rely on the permanence of Gandalfs death for its impact, but it did change it.
If the sequel to a movie reveals that movie 1 was a dream then I can never go back to not knowing that while watching movie 1, the experience changes, so the original experience is lost. A living Aerith means no more FFVII OG.

It was the list they made up of Cloud's in-game behaviour towards the women with points assigned to each so that once all the scores were tallied up, there'd be quantitative proof of who he likes/loves more. Like, when Cloud greets the woman it's worth 1 point each time; when he mentions her name it's worth another point; and when he expresses concern for her that's another point, etc. Except that when it came time to actually using the scoresheet, they kept coming up with flimsy and logic breaking excuses to avoid awarding points equally towards the two women. For example, Cloud said "Hello/Good morning" to Aerith, so that's 1 point in her favour; but him saying the same thing to Tifa isn't worth any points because he's only doing it to be polite, not that he actually likes her.

Sometimes it still baffles me how bad these people are at basic logic. You can't use the thing you're trying to determine in the dataset for the thing you're trying to determine.....because DUH.
 
Last edited:

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Wouldn't be any better from a thematic standpoint. "oh no, don't worry guys, we didn't bring her back, she actually just never died in the first place". It runs afoul of the same message, which is that the dead are dead. The same problems with kids thinking the dead would come back because that's what they always see in movies would still apply, grandma isn't really dead, because people are never really dead, they always come back. This is why I vehemently oppose the "you'll always have the OG" narrative. The game is more than a set of 1s and 0s, they're a set of themes and ideas. If Aerith is brought back in remake in any shape or form then the OG id dead because its' message is dead. And yes, Gandalf is actually pretty relevant there because I cannot watch fellowship as I did before I knew that gandalf survived. The two towers effectively destroyed THAT version of the movie specifically. Now that doesn't matter as much since fellowship doesn't rely on the permanence of Gandalfs death for its impact, but it did change it.
If the sequel to a movie reveals that movie 1 was a dream then I can never go back to not knowing that while watching movie 1, the experience changes, so the original experience is lost. A living Aerith means no more FFVII OG.

Totally agree. And more than thematic standpoint, I can't stand games that make too much of a character's death and then don't dare go through with it. I just feel like I've been made fun of and from that moment on I don't give a damn about what happens to them. I can't imagine re-playing Remake and Rebirth with all the forshadowing of what's gonna happen to her, her song, her final goodbye to Cloud in the Church if I know that a "GOTCHA she's not dead !" is coming right after.
 

Hix

Pro Adventurer
Just thought I'd write a little bit on the topic of moving on. This is something that seems to be hotly debated within the LTD because of the nature of the franchise and I saw it recently discussed again on social media, which, to my chagrin, I still find myself caring about.

So anyway, we've got our protagonist, Cloud, who falls in love with Tifa at an early age and sets off to join SOLDIER to win her heart (unbeknownst to Cloud, suffering from an intense lack of self-esteem, her heart belonged to him all along.) As a result of Hojo's experiments, and the devastating affects of both Mako poising and Jenova cells messing with his mind, Cloud effectively loses a large portion of his actual memories.

This creates a situation where our protagonist is incredibly deep, but can be related to as fresh as the viewer is. What it also does is create the window of opportunity for him to potentially leave behind the feelings he once had but no longer fully understands. Obviously Remake and Rebirth have proven conclusively that this is not the case here and, even if the exposition behind it all is missing, that Cloud's love for Tifa is still deeply ingrained and impossible to avoid.

That's all well and good, but what of in the case of Zack and Aerith? Far more are ready to believe Aerith has "moved on" and I confess there's probably good reason for it. Zack exits her life in the most sudden way and 5 years later there remains not a trace of him to be seen or found. Surely in that time her faith must waver?

We see that in 4 of those 5 years Aerith writes some 89 letters to Zack. It's implied by the 89th that she is unaware if he's even receiving them, so has taken the decision to make that one the last - but even Zack, on finally reading it, is clearly panicked by the implication.

A blink of an eye may have passed for Zack but, by then, it was years of devotion from Aerith and the hopes, disappointments, tears and pain that come with it. This was not a couple who broke up. In the Japanese translation, their last words to each other were Zack saying "I'll come see you, I promise" to which Aerith replied "I'll be waiting" - and wait she did, but one can't expect such a thing to last forever.

Throw in the complication that Aerith maybe, kinda, possibly knows Zack is dead and you've got a scenario ripe for Aerith finally leaving behind the memory of, and feelings for, the man she loved so dearly. All sounds pretty reasonable, right?

Let's take a step back. What is "moving on" and what would it entail here? If we assume that our Aerith is uncertain about Zack's fate - she asks after him even in Remake where she clearly has foresight that is lacking in Rebirth - moving on would, you might expect, be similar to how one moves on in real life, vis, leaving the previous life and connections behind and seeking to build new ones in their place.

The issue is that nowhere do we see this with Aerith. She still continues to ask after Zack wherever she goes. In Gongaga, she wastes no time heading to his house and meeting his parents. She takes little pause then in admitting she has feelings still for Zack when asked by Cloud. She persists in wearing pink, the devs have gone to pains to point out that this is done in expectation of being reunited with Zack, and takes the time to tie the bow he bought her in her hair every day. Lest you think it's "just a bow", she actually has more than the one he bought, even another pink one, but continues to wear specifically his.

One might say that different people move on in different ways. Maybe seemingly continuing to search for Zack is her way of moving on, or maybe she's just inwardly moved on but externally goes through the motions. This argument, on the surface, seems valid enough.

In fact, I somewhat agree that it's entirely possible that grief and moving on is different and people relate to it different. But here's the rub: that applies to people in real life. Aerith is a video game character with a defined personality, back story, arc and development. We know her history and her future and we know who she is because her character has been written in a way that can be related to and understood.

What I'm saying here is that if the devs wanted to show that Aerith was "moving on" from Zack, they wouldn't spend such an incredibly long time showing that she's not moving on from Zack. There's no narrative requirement to have her admit her feelings for him to Cloud, if the intent is to show that she wants only Cloud now. Nor was the sector 5 date recreation a necessity as a backdrop to her intentions of delivering the White Materia to Cloud. Why keep Zack in her thoughts, words and deeds if the intent is to show he's been replaced?

Further, one could suggest there would be no need to spend so much time building their relationship at all. An entire game was made in which the protagonists love for one girl drove him to eschew a peaceful existence and head to Midgar (an overt parallel with the actions of Cloud) in Crisis Core, now suitably subtitled Reunion. With Rebirth largely completing Aerith's role in the main story, there would nary be a worse time to pump out a Crisis Core remake if one wanted to suggest Zack is Aerith's past and Cloud alone her future, yet this is precisely what SE did.

For me, it's clear Aerith spends time struggling with Cloud's similarities to Zack and how she should relate to him. Once understanding the two are so fundamentally different, she continues to struggle with how she should relate to Cloud as a friend - one must remember that this is a new experience for her, given she and Zack were in a relationship almost from the beginning and she was, by virtue of her status, a loner.

Nevertheless, if you want to say she does attempt to move on with Cloud, it can somewhat fit. In the two short weeks they are together, one could argue that she makes a decision to try to move on and focus her affections solely on him, but ultimately her efforts are cut short by virtue of the Masamune. This doesn't even necessarily contradict what we know of their fate in Advent Children Complete as just as she had the agency to move on before, so too she can again and just as much give Zack - now actually there and in the present - another try.

That's all well and good, but narratively it falls short. First of all, for insomuch as Aerith may move on from Zack, Cloud himself is only beginning to return to him. Zack will always remain an elephant in the room by virtue of sacrificing his life, and chance to return to Aerith, that Cloud could be alive to this day. Surely in the first instance nobody genuinely believes Nojima et al would reward Zack's heroism with the two people he cares for most spitting on his grave? Such an action, a character assassination on multiple levels, is unthinkable.

On that note, I'm reminded that one (Clerith) argument I see often put out there these days is that Cloud "loves both Tifa and Aerith" and he can "choose between either" and it's totally valid. Ignoring that this is not actually the case - Cloud is not a self-insert and the second he remembers who he is the same second affection mechanics largely stop mattering - the same courtesy should thus be afforded to Aerith.

Even if Aerith is ready to try something with Cloud, which ultimately never happens due to lack of time and Cloud's own feelings getting in the way, by the above logic it's entirely possible that she does so while still deeply in love with Zack, cherishing their moments and waiting for him to return as he promised.

It's not for nothing that one minute he's there then the next he's gone and all that she's left with is the promise unfulfilled. "He's never given me a reason not to (still love him)" she tells Cloud in Gongaga, because he simply vanishes one day without a trace. There's no moving on here because there's no ability to, no closure has been brought and, as such, she continues to wear pink and wait for him to fulfil the promise.

And this is precisely why no reunion, in person at least, was forthcoming between the two in Rebirth. It would be impossible on all levels for Cloud and Aerith to keep the same story beats as in the original (Cloud stuck in his SOLDIER persona fed by the promise of being her bodyguard, Aerith treating Cloud as a stand-in for Zack) if Zack is literally there. It simply could not happen in part 2 or it's over, done, finito when we still have a full game of emotional payoff ahead.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Just thought I'd write a little bit on the topic of moving on. This is something that seems to be hotly debated within the LTD because of the nature of the franchise and I saw it recently discussed again on social media, which, to my chagrin, I still find myself caring about.

So anyway, we've got our protagonist, Cloud, who falls in love with Tifa at an early age and sets off to join SOLDIER to win her heart (unbeknownst to Cloud, suffering from an intense lack of self-esteem, her heart belonged to him all along.) As a result of Hojo's experiments, and the devastating affects of both Mako poising and Jenova cells messing with his mind, Cloud effectively loses a large portion of his actual memories.

This creates a situation where our protagonist is incredibly deep, but can be related to as fresh as the viewer is. What it also does is create the window of opportunity for him to potentially leave behind the feelings he once had but no longer fully understands. Obviously Remake and Rebirth have proven conclusively that this is not the case here and, even if the exposition behind it all is missing, that Cloud's love for Tifa is still deeply ingrained and impossible to avoid.

That's all well and good, but what of in the case of Zack and Aerith? Far more are ready to believe Aerith has "moved on" and I confess there's probably good reason for it. Zack exits her life in the most sudden way and 5 years later there remains not a trace of him to be seen or found. Surely in that time her faith must waver?

We see that in 4 of those 5 years Aerith writes some 89 letters to Zack. It's implied by the 89th that she is unaware if he's even receiving them, so has taken the decision to make that one the last - but even Zack, on finally reading it, is clearly panicked by the implication.

A blink of an eye may have passed for Zack but, by then, it was years of devotion from Aerith and the hopes, disappointments, tears and pain that come with it. This was not a couple who broke up. In the Japanese translation, their last words to each other were Zack saying "I'll come see you, I promise" to which Aerith replied "I'll be waiting" - and wait she did, but one can't expect such a thing to last forever.

Throw in the complication that Aerith maybe, kinda, possibly knows Zack is dead and you've got a scenario ripe for Aerith finally leaving behind the memory of, and feelings for, the man she loved so dearly. All sounds pretty reasonable, right?

Let's take a step back. What is "moving on" and what would it entail here? If we assume that our Aerith is uncertain about Zack's fate - she asks after him even in Remake where she clearly has foresight that is lacking in Rebirth - moving on would, you might expect, be similar to how one moves on in real life, vis, leaving the previous life and connections behind and seeking to build new ones in their place.

The issue is that nowhere do we see this with Aerith. She still continues to ask after Zack wherever she goes. In Gongaga, she wastes no time heading to his house and meeting his parents. She takes little pause then in admitting she has feelings still for Zack when asked by Cloud. She persists in wearing pink, the devs have gone to pains to point out that this is done in expectation of being reunited with Zack, and takes the time to tie the bow he bought her in her hair every day. Lest you think it's "just a bow", she actually has more than the one he bought, even another pink one, but continues to wear specifically his.

One might say that different people move on in different ways. Maybe seemingly continuing to search for Zack is her way of moving on, or maybe she's just inwardly moved on but externally goes through the motions. This argument, on the surface, seems valid enough.

In fact, I somewhat agree that it's entirely possible that grief and moving on is different and people relate to it different. But here's the rub: that applies to people in real life. Aerith is a video game character with a defined personality, back story, arc and development. We know her history and her future and we know who she is because her character has been written in a way that can be related to and understood.

What I'm saying here is that if the devs wanted to show that Aerith was "moving on" from Zack, they wouldn't spend such an incredibly long time showing that she's not moving on from Zack. There's no narrative requirement to have her admit her feelings for him to Cloud, if the intent is to show that she wants only Cloud now. Nor was the sector 5 date recreation a necessity as a backdrop to her intentions of delivering the White Materia to Cloud. Why keep Zack in her thoughts, words and deeds if the intent is to show he's been replaced?

Further, one could suggest there would be no need to spend so much time building their relationship at all. An entire game was made in which the protagonists love for one girl drove him to eschew a peaceful existence and head to Midgar (an overt parallel with the actions of Cloud) in Crisis Core, now suitably subtitled Reunion. With Rebirth largely completing Aerith's role in the main story, there would nary be a worse time to pump out a Crisis Core remake if one wanted to suggest Zack is Aerith's past and Cloud alone her future, yet this is precisely what SE did.

For me, it's clear Aerith spends time struggling with Cloud's similarities to Zack and how she should relate to him. Once understanding the two are so fundamentally different, she continues to struggle with how she should relate to Cloud as a friend - one must remember that this is a new experience for her, given she and Zack were in a relationship almost from the beginning and she was, by virtue of her status, a loner.

Nevertheless, if you want to say she does attempt to move on with Cloud, it can somewhat fit. In the two short weeks they are together, one could argue that she makes a decision to try to move on and focus her affections solely on him, but ultimately her efforts are cut short by virtue of the Masamune. This doesn't even necessarily contradict what we know of their fate in Advent Children Complete as just as she had the agency to move on before, so too she can again and just as much give Zack - now actually there and in the present - another try.

That's all well and good, but narratively it falls short. First of all, for insomuch as Aerith may move on from Zack, Cloud himself is only beginning to return to him. Zack will always remain an elephant in the room by virtue of sacrificing his life, and chance to return to Aerith, that Cloud could be alive to this day. Surely in the first instance nobody genuinely believes Nojima et al would reward Zack's heroism with the two people he cares for most spitting on his grave? Such an action, a character assassination on multiple levels, is unthinkable.

On that note, I'm reminded that one (Clerith) argument I see often put out there these days is that Cloud "loves both Tifa and Aerith" and he can "choose between either" and it's totally valid. Ignoring that this is not actually the case - Cloud is not a self-insert and the second he remembers who he is the same second affection mechanics largely stop mattering - the same courtesy should thus be afforded to Aerith.

Even if Aerith is ready to try something with Cloud, which ultimately never happens due to lack of time and Cloud's own feelings getting in the way, by the above logic it's entirely possible that she does so while still deeply in love with Zack, cherishing their moments and waiting for him to return as he promised.

It's not for nothing that one minute he's there then the next he's gone and all that she's left with is the promise unfulfilled. "He's never given me a reason not to (still love him)" she tells Cloud in Gongaga, because he simply vanishes one day without a trace. There's no moving on here because there's no ability to, no closure has been brought and, as such, she continues to wear pink and wait for him to fulfil the promise.

And this is precisely why no reunion, in person at least, was forthcoming between the two in Rebirth. It would be impossible on all levels for Cloud and Aerith to keep the same story beats as in the original (Cloud stuck in his SOLDIER persona fed by the promise of being her bodyguard, Aerith treating Cloud as a stand-in for Zack) if Zack is literally there. It simply could not happen in part 2 or it's over, done, finito when we still have a full game of emotional payoff ahead.
I wish we could crown posts that I think highlight a certain argument in a particularly clear and lucid way, for easy archiving. For now though I'm stuck bookmarking them.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Apparently this quote is somewhere in the world preview. Wonder if it's taken out of context or misrepresented or something because if there is an official quote like this out somewhere it feels too good to be true. We know of the "to become a special existence" to Tifa line in "2000 gil to become a hero", but if there is an out of story quote like this straight from a developer interview that would essentially be the most damning and explicit evidence we have yet.
1713438654754.png
1713438672258.png

1713438716811.png
 
Top Bottom