Rin
Pro Adventurer
Wait what?
I feel like some things in the ending just went completely over my head.
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
I feel like some things in the ending just went completely over my head.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Wait what?
Make sure to Assess Sephiroth Reborn.
A resurrected being who now wields unimaginable might and commands the arbiters of fate. He seeks to pierce through the layers of existence, and reunite fragmented space-time. He shall rule over the planet and create eternity.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
I agree with most of what you said, but not necessarily this. I never got the idea that he already resurrected himself. As far as I know, his physical body is still encapsulated in the NC
Edit: Ok, I see what you're alluding to. I'm gonna refrain from thinking Sephiroth Reborn is actually the Sephiroth that was in the NC. My initial thought was Sephiroth Reborn is just another monster version of Sephiroth, not actually him
Rin
Pro Adventurer
Huh. Interesting, yeah I just checked and I can see why you came to that conclusion. But wouldn't that change a lot for part 3 if he's not at NC?
imach0c0
Pro Adventurer
It seems much of the discourse is coming from people saying that Tifa and Cloud were never close as kids and Tifa made Cloud make the promise to fulfil her fantasy of being saved by a hero.A good example of Cult Clerith's long years of misinformation.
She says Aerith kept asking about Cloud when the two girls were alone escaping the falling plate. And she ends her sentence with "I bet she likes you"!
And suddenly... HERE COMES THE OPTIONS! Because yes, Cloud can be uninterested. So even in OGs, it can be unrequited love.
And some tend to forget the "I won't tell Tifa."
Funny how people point out that she's precocious and picks up on emotional signals of Aerith and Cloud's feelings... but don't think for a moment the way that she knows that's something Tifa must not know... is a BIG emotional signal of Tifa and Cloud's feelings....
Edit : @nars305 gets it lmao
There is also discourse that in Case of Lifestrea White novel, Aerith does not mention Zack. Therefore, Aerith loves Cloud more than Zack.
Side note -- is information from guidebooks and ultimanias canon? I see people pulling up texts from 10 years ago as basis for arguments. Has any FFVII lore info been retconned in the remake trilogy?
Rin
Pro Adventurer
Not that I know of, no. Ultimania's are usually pretty vague for that reason, anyway.
Yoru
Pro Adventurer
Mostly denied in the ToTP and 2000 Gils novels. By Nojima himself
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
To put it bluntly, that's a stupid argument. What about CoL shows Aerith loving Cloud in a way that's more than friends?
imach0c0
Pro Adventurer
I don't think Tifa gets enough credit for the inner strength she has. She had to learn to overcome her struggles on her own. She puts others before herself and wears a brave face. She rarely shows her vulnerability.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Yeah for sure. Where in CoL is it established that she's thinking of Cloud as more than a friend? Why would she be thinking of Zack in a short story that has nothing to do with Zack?
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Rin
Pro Adventurer
Oh, I see. Yeah, I guess that's fair then
Rin
Pro Adventurer
Koibito simply means "the person you love", not necessarily "lover".
Case of the lifestream white/black were also written pre-Crisis Core, so it's not surprising that there's no mention of Zack.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
That'd be ignoring everything else in the text. As Rin said, it means the person you love. Can it be used in reference to one's lover? of course. In the case of CoL, it can't be though. Cloud is not Aerith's lover. Never was, never will be
How do we know Aerith wasn't in bed with Zack during CoL?
null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
Aerith fretting over her koibito in the middle of spirit sex while Zack tries to cheer her up. “Babe, he’ll be fine. If there’s any trouble we’ll go up there and stand back to back with him like we talked about. Now come back to bed and finish embracing your dreams.”
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
It's so dumb haha.Welcome to the LTD
Exactly! Every one knows damn well Zack was showing off his Bust(h)er sword
abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
On the topic of Aerith's dress wowing Cloud, Tifa completely blows him away in Gongaga, without a dress.
It's already a moot argument to begin with, but even more so now.
EDIT: btw this isn't supposed to be a dig at
Aerith, I'm not trying to say "Tifa is prettier than Aerith without the need for a dress haha" or something, I'm just saying.
It's already a moot argument to begin with, but even more so now.
EDIT: btw this isn't supposed to be a dig at
Aerith, I'm not trying to say "Tifa is prettier than Aerith without the need for a dress haha" or something, I'm just saying.
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SilverSisu
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Zack bro
There is a difference between having a crush and being in love. Cloud has a crush on Aerith but he loves Tifa. He just doesn't fully realize it because his mind is shattered and there is so much he has lost when it comes being the "real Cloud"
He finds all his memories and lost feelings towards Tifa when she fixes Cloud's mind in the lifestream.
And it goes both ways. Aerith has a crush on Cloud but she is in love with Zack. She needed comfort and Cloud reminded her of Zack and this caused Aerith developing romantic feelings for Cloud. She wanted to live in a fantasy and treat Cloud as Zack 2.0 but during the dream date she realized that she wants the real Zack and she can't treat Cloud as Zack 2.0. It wouldn't be fair towards Cloud.
It's just like og Aerith said in remake. "Whatever happens you can't fall in love with me. Even if you think you have...it's not real."
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Yoru
Pro Adventurer
Not a big thing, but still a constant one in Remake/Rebirth. Cloud keeping Tifa out of the "friends" term.
And again a little moment where Cloud decides something for the group by just asking Tifa. Papa & Mama energy
And again a little moment where Cloud decides something for the group by just asking Tifa. Papa & Mama energy
Biscuit
Rookie Adventurer
- AKA
- Bikit
.. I really don't understand where this concept of cloud having a "crush" on aerith is coming from. Ig if that's the case, he got a crush on jessie too. Like have you seen how his gaze lingers on her photograph? She's dead I know but she had that much impression on her despite them not hanging out much.. or it could just be that, that's how he cherishes all his friends including aerith. I never saw him develop a crush. What we do see is him showing the exact opposite of it even before the resolution scene and the part where he remembers Zack.
Some forget he doesn't recall her face back at the church which means it didn't create an impression (and this is non-optional just like the bikini reveal where he Didn't look at her unless she spoke). And we have the worst dress reaction and a simple polite reaction for the mid dress (the one she actually liked).
If anything, best dress tells you (much clearly in JP) that as long as she's not her usual self, in her usual style, what she likes, then that will create a "positive" impression (also, it's an expensive as heck ensemble! how would she keep up with all that all the time? Including all the theatrics in the bg). She even says it doesn't seem like her, and he asks if she's even "aerith" (like, as in literally). I don't know if that's really "positive". That indicates that her usual style, what makes her "her" doesn't have a positive impression. If you noticed, it even uses a lot of motifs that are related to Tifa (red-eyes & cosmo canyon, star-the promise, showy outfit, fireworks- Tifa's OG gsd OST. While mid dress shows aerith's motifs). But even so, all dresses from worst to best all ends in one reaction. Indifference. And he asks about what their next plan is. This event was Never brought back/referenced in the game. And quite fascinatingly, they decided to give as a camera view where we see his direct eye contact (unlike best dress, makes you think where exactly was he looking at? Aerith, the people? Fireworks?) which turns out to be Tifa's bust. Also, best dress had all those fireworks, but he couldn't even look at aerith in her gsd like he did with Tifa.
I'm not trying to be mean to aerith (heck, you could say SE is, when they made madam m's line, hojo's line, and worst dress etc. They're Not being mean tho despite these.. SE want to express she's canonically seen as Plain in FF7. I think there's a reason.. this might have brought her insecurity that Zack was probably "only messing with her/a Ladies' man behavior" when he called her an angel.. he was being genuine tho). I really just don't think he had a crush on her. Tifa is canonically called beautiful in FF7 world (not just by Cloud), but Zack doesn't compliment her lol. It seems that both Zack and Cloud have Very Different personal preference/type in terms of looks and personality. Cloud Definitely Never saw her "sexually" lol, if so, Yuffie would have caught on that immediately. She hasn't even known Cloud that long enough but she's picking up on the Tifa bit. And she even speaks about Tifa in her gsd. Nobody notices his pov about aerith. Except marlene saying aerith likes him. Which speaks nothing about cloud (and we've seen him Friendzone her effortlessly/without hesitation so there's that).
Resolution also had a line of "even if" Not "even though". Meaning she's not even sure but she'll warn anyway. If resolution is what happens after dream date. It's actually weird that she still said that after getting Friendzoned tho. He couldn't even gift her a gift that shows affection (the brooch, reunion flower given to girlfriend). Which leads me to believe.. she has trouble reading and understanding him. So I'd take her assesments like an unreliable narrator.
She even asserts he took a sneak photo in that photograph side quest. But if you let her catch you, she actually poses and theres no animation where cloud hides himself. So him saying "nothing sneaky about that" is fr. She might just been teasing but some people took that optional event and her statement as romantic which is Weird. .. that's what we do in school field trips with my friends. Neither was he hiding Nor was he flustered.
Anyway, I don't get where this is coming from. I didn't list it all, but he surely has shown wanting to have boundaries and apparent Disinterest. He even calls himself not romantic (even though he is). And him telling her to stop calling it a date. Other stuff like not being comfortable with the couple gondola ride idea etc. This was before the whole Zack thing too, so I Hope Nobody says it's about bro code lol (I don't think that ever even entered his mind, he had No thought process of "can't make a move this that" otherwise we would see this scenario clearly). If anything, remembering Zack made him kinder to aerith if you ask me. Also, that they're both saddened by the news of Zack.
Anyway, if this was in the story, it should have been written the same way they wrote aerith's dilemma. They Clearly Didn't because it's Never there just like how the bro code HC that some people have (smfh), has Never been a "thing". I don't think one line from a another person who has difficulty understanding what she even feels is credible to speak about what others feel. She didn't even let him speak in her resolution. It's much more in your face in chinese, he says "you're talking to yourself" which she is. Her resolution message is about her ONLY whether she's aware of that or not.
Unless of course we take that he could have had a crush on jessie or even madam m since he did have a "sus" reaction from those two if you guys like to.
Sorry for the long text. But hobbit's take saying you have all these choices but it all ends the same do remind me of the three dresses. Or perhaps even the nptk reaction. No matter how you interpret those, it all ends with him thinking of her Only as a Friend and Never more nor "yet"(btw, he also has the same open mouth reaction to Nanaki's dancing, what I mean is, it's him simply appreciating his Friends performances that's all as he does cherish all.. Cloud is a nice guy you know).
+ I found a really interesting tweet just a moment ago lol. Just as cloud reacts to Nanaki's dancing with the exact same reaction to nptk and the best dress. Nanaki reacts to aerith and tifa's bikini very much flustered. Does that mean he has a crush on them tho? You know what happens? He's just flustered but it turns Indifferent later on, this Never gets referenced nor talked about just like how cloud's reaction to All three dresses and nptk are Never referenced after. Meanwhile, we see him capable of calling Tifa Beautiful in Remake and compliments her appearance 2x already in EC without prompt. This isn't even adding the Various compliments he gives to her cooking and fighting ability. And his insistence of wanting to hear her sing after tifa praised nptk. All without prompt and this is Exclusive ONLY to Tifa. I Hope you guys get what I'm trying to say. I Hope there's no need to list the other stuff I didn't include here.
Some forget he doesn't recall her face back at the church which means it didn't create an impression (and this is non-optional just like the bikini reveal where he Didn't look at her unless she spoke). And we have the worst dress reaction and a simple polite reaction for the mid dress (the one she actually liked).
If anything, best dress tells you (much clearly in JP) that as long as she's not her usual self, in her usual style, what she likes, then that will create a "positive" impression (also, it's an expensive as heck ensemble! how would she keep up with all that all the time? Including all the theatrics in the bg). She even says it doesn't seem like her, and he asks if she's even "aerith" (like, as in literally). I don't know if that's really "positive". That indicates that her usual style, what makes her "her" doesn't have a positive impression. If you noticed, it even uses a lot of motifs that are related to Tifa (red-eyes & cosmo canyon, star-the promise, showy outfit, fireworks- Tifa's OG gsd OST. While mid dress shows aerith's motifs). But even so, all dresses from worst to best all ends in one reaction. Indifference. And he asks about what their next plan is. This event was Never brought back/referenced in the game. And quite fascinatingly, they decided to give as a camera view where we see his direct eye contact (unlike best dress, makes you think where exactly was he looking at? Aerith, the people? Fireworks?) which turns out to be Tifa's bust. Also, best dress had all those fireworks, but he couldn't even look at aerith in her gsd like he did with Tifa.
I'm not trying to be mean to aerith (heck, you could say SE is, when they made madam m's line, hojo's line, and worst dress etc. They're Not being mean tho despite these.. SE want to express she's canonically seen as Plain in FF7. I think there's a reason.. this might have brought her insecurity that Zack was probably "only messing with her/a Ladies' man behavior" when he called her an angel.. he was being genuine tho). I really just don't think he had a crush on her. Tifa is canonically called beautiful in FF7 world (not just by Cloud), but Zack doesn't compliment her lol. It seems that both Zack and Cloud have Very Different personal preference/type in terms of looks and personality. Cloud Definitely Never saw her "sexually" lol, if so, Yuffie would have caught on that immediately. She hasn't even known Cloud that long enough but she's picking up on the Tifa bit. And she even speaks about Tifa in her gsd. Nobody notices his pov about aerith. Except marlene saying aerith likes him. Which speaks nothing about cloud (and we've seen him Friendzone her effortlessly/without hesitation so there's that).
Resolution also had a line of "even if" Not "even though". Meaning she's not even sure but she'll warn anyway. If resolution is what happens after dream date. It's actually weird that she still said that after getting Friendzoned tho. He couldn't even gift her a gift that shows affection (the brooch, reunion flower given to girlfriend). Which leads me to believe.. she has trouble reading and understanding him. So I'd take her assesments like an unreliable narrator.
She even asserts he took a sneak photo in that photograph side quest. But if you let her catch you, she actually poses and theres no animation where cloud hides himself. So him saying "nothing sneaky about that" is fr. She might just been teasing but some people took that optional event and her statement as romantic which is Weird. .. that's what we do in school field trips with my friends. Neither was he hiding Nor was he flustered.
Anyway, I don't get where this is coming from. I didn't list it all, but he surely has shown wanting to have boundaries and apparent Disinterest. He even calls himself not romantic (even though he is). And him telling her to stop calling it a date. Other stuff like not being comfortable with the couple gondola ride idea etc. This was before the whole Zack thing too, so I Hope Nobody says it's about bro code lol (I don't think that ever even entered his mind, he had No thought process of "can't make a move this that" otherwise we would see this scenario clearly). If anything, remembering Zack made him kinder to aerith if you ask me. Also, that they're both saddened by the news of Zack.
Anyway, if this was in the story, it should have been written the same way they wrote aerith's dilemma. They Clearly Didn't because it's Never there just like how the bro code HC that some people have (smfh), has Never been a "thing". I don't think one line from a another person who has difficulty understanding what she even feels is credible to speak about what others feel. She didn't even let him speak in her resolution. It's much more in your face in chinese, he says "you're talking to yourself" which she is. Her resolution message is about her ONLY whether she's aware of that or not.
Unless of course we take that he could have had a crush on jessie or even madam m since he did have a "sus" reaction from those two if you guys like to.
Sorry for the long text. But hobbit's take saying you have all these choices but it all ends the same do remind me of the three dresses. Or perhaps even the nptk reaction. No matter how you interpret those, it all ends with him thinking of her Only as a Friend and Never more nor "yet"(btw, he also has the same open mouth reaction to Nanaki's dancing, what I mean is, it's him simply appreciating his Friends performances that's all as he does cherish all.. Cloud is a nice guy you know).
+ I found a really interesting tweet just a moment ago lol. Just as cloud reacts to Nanaki's dancing with the exact same reaction to nptk and the best dress. Nanaki reacts to aerith and tifa's bikini very much flustered. Does that mean he has a crush on them tho? You know what happens? He's just flustered but it turns Indifferent later on, this Never gets referenced nor talked about just like how cloud's reaction to All three dresses and nptk are Never referenced after. Meanwhile, we see him capable of calling Tifa Beautiful in Remake and compliments her appearance 2x already in EC without prompt. This isn't even adding the Various compliments he gives to her cooking and fighting ability. And his insistence of wanting to hear her sing after tifa praised nptk. All without prompt and this is Exclusive ONLY to Tifa. I Hope you guys get what I'm trying to say. I Hope there's no need to list the other stuff I didn't include here.
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