New Novel, FINAL FANTASY VII Lateral Biography TURKS: The Kids Are Alright [SPOILER THREAD]

[Tennyo]

Like everyone else has said, whatever works for you, Hito. Don't burn yourself out.

 

[Strifegirl]

Thanks a lot Hito!

 

[Wolfmania]

I`ll be honest. So far, I think the story is a tad boring. I`d love to hear more about the mundane FFVII world, but did these new characters really have to be introduced? It seems SE kinda loves to introduce new characters, as redundant as they may be.

Corneo alive? Just, why?

The relationships look somewhat accurately portrayed, I guess. Though really, I`m pissed off I get no screen-time of the real Cloud Strife. With his family.

I liked this Kadaj, kinda. It may contradict COTLB, in the way that he sent agents toguether, but they probably split themselves to cover a wider area. I think the three were born at the same time, really. As was stated i Black.

Also they thing about not teleporting or mind-reading I guess is just because against an opponent of Cloud`s caliber, that would be useless waste of energy. The Reunion Files did say they made him as powerful as FFVII Seph, as to rival Cloud`s current power, so It`s nice to see him exibiting those abilities we know he had.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think the three were born at the same time, really. As was stated i Black.

Truthfully, it doesn't say they were made at the same time. It says Kadaj was created, and then Seph soon remembered that the physical world was more difficult than the spirit world, so he made two more avatars.

Given how loosely the Lifestream stories played with the passage of time, "soon" could easily encompass the initial solo attempt by Kadaj in The Kids Are Alright. He fails, so Seph realizes, "Oh, yeah, shit's hard up there," and creates Yazoo and Loz.

 

[Tetsujin]

Given how loosely the Lifestream stories played with the passage of time, "soon" could easily encompass the initial solo attempt by Kadaj in The Kids Are Alright. He fails, so Seph realizes, "Oh, yeah, shit's hard up there," and creates Yazoo and Loz.

But then there's the scene in ACC where the Turks encounter all three of them shortly after their "birth"...

 

[Dashell]

was it said it was right after their birth? Do we know it wasn't Kadaj the second and then the others?

 

[Roger]

was it said it was right after their birth?

Unless Kadaj decided to get naked at the crater for no reason, then yes.

Do we know it wasn't Kadaj the second and then the others?

The scene showed us that this is where they spawned. Also it's where Jenova was recovered by the Turks just before they materialised. Did Kadaj 1.0 just walk past Mother and go walk the globe for no reason?

 

[Fangu]

Unless Kadaj decided to get naked at the crater for no reason, then yes.

Well I would assume it'd be pretty hot down there

 

[Strangelove]

But then there's the scene in ACC where the Turks encounter all three of them shortly after their "birth"...

Kadaj dies in this, he falls into a Lifestream pool and dissolves into light particles. The one in ACC would be the second birth.

 

[Tetsujin]

You're kidding right? o.O

 

[Strangelove]

I'm... not sure why I would be kidding?

 

[Tetsujin]

Because...I dunno.

 

[Strangelove]

Is this some kind of German humour? Because I don't get it

 

[Tetsujin]

I just thought the story sounded pretty stupid and hoped it wasn't true.

 

[Wolfmania]

Truthfully, it doesn't say they were made at the same time. It says Kadaj was created, and then Seph soon remembered that the physical world was more difficult than the spirit world, so he made two more avatars.

Given how loosely the Lifestream stories played with the passage of time, "soon" could easily encompass the initial solo attempt by Kadaj in The Kids Are Alright. He fails, so Seph realizes, "Oh, yeah, shit's hard up there," and creates Yazoo and Loz.

True! I just re-read the exerpt. But what about the scene in ACC, as others have said? It seems to imply a short birth for Kadaj and Co. Seph realizing that the freedom of the physical world was not as the spiritual, perhaps as kadaj was created and began to feel?

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm missing what has people confused...Sephiroth made Kadaj, Kadaj failed by being killed and all. So Sephy realized it would be better if he could have agents in 3 places at once, so he remade Kadaj along with two others. Begin ACC. *shrug* It makes sense to me.

The fact Jenova was inbthe crater and the first Kadaj missed it is pretty stupid, but the mere fact that the first kadaj failed and Sephiroth made another one seems fine to me, or am I missing what people's problem is?

 

[Fangu]

I think it's the general "ooh here's a plot hole let's fill it with something random so it fits" that's throwing people off.

My q is: The idea of the trio was to separate Sephiroth's madness, strength and anger each into its own person. I'm wondering if novel-Kadaj is a bit madder and physically a little stronger than ACC Kadaj? Or did Sephy underestimate his madness and strength first time around?

 

[Wolfmania]

I think it's the general "ooh here's a plot hole let's fill it with something random so it fits" that's throwing people off.

My q is: The idea of the trio was to separate Sephiroth's madness, strength and anger each into its own person. I'm wondering if novel-Kadaj is a bit madder and physically a little stronger than ACC Kadaj? Or did Sephy underestimate his madness and strength first time around?

Truthfully, I wouldn't fathom the second model being worse than the first. Much because it seems like Seph simply recycled the first one back to shape in the Northern Crater. Kadaj was originally supposed to represent Sephiroth's cruelty, so if he indeed was stronger because of Yazoo(Sephiroth's allure) or Loz(Sph's physical strenght)'s absence he would be actually an entierly different character. This is especially true when you consider certain Reunion File quotes.

My guess is that the second Kadaj and his bro's were all born at the same time in the Northern Crater the time around AC/C. More or less like the first one just got recycled back into his physical form by Seph and he created his bro's to aid him. Since COLB didn't allude to any second Kadaj's or whatever, I just got this impression of recyclement from light particles as soon as Kadaj arrived on the desired location(NC). Seph either got lucky or remedied his geographical mistake, I don't know if the NC birth was intentional.

 

[ForceStealer]

I dunno, it certainly sounds like the first Kadaj was better. Maybe Sephiroth did have to sacrifice individual abilities to make three.

 

[Wolfmania]

I dunno. I find that notion to be strange. If he had already created his aspect of cruelty, why would he get weaker from simply creating the brother aspects, which wouldn't involve cruelty?

Of course, he exhibited teleporting and mind-reading, but I'm not altoguether surprised. Considering this exerpt, they did have movie Kadaj with those Seph-like abilities. He just didn't display them as much. Why? Anyone's guess. My guess is that It's because It was Cloud. Wouldn't do much good.

I just find that notion of more aspects weakening the other strange and convoluted. Much because they said they'd make the three join toguether to form Seph, but latter scrapped that since It'd look too comedic and simply made Kadaj + Cells = Full-Power Seph.

My 0.02 Cents.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I've never really bought into the idea that Seph was literally divided up into the three brothers. More that each represents a particular aspect of him more fully than the others, but not at the exclusion of the others also possessing those qualities.

Yazoo being his allure, for instance -- it's symbolic, rather than meaning Yazoo derives his actual power from the representation. Same with Kadaj and Seph's cruelty.

Seph didn't have only three qualities, and then sat there and decided how he was going to divy them up.

 

[ForceStealer]

I wasn't saying Sephiroth divided into the remnants, I'm saying maybe he divided the first Kadaj into them (or more accurately, divided whatever energy he used creating the first Kadaj into three), hence why Kadaj in the movie isn't nearly as badass.

Also, yeah the remnants representing Sephiroth's cruelty, allure, and strength are how Nojima narratively envisioned them, Sephiroth didn't consciously create a being out of his cruelty. They were just saying that's what the three characters, as story elements, represent.

 

[Strangelove]

I don't know if I'm missing something in this conversation but it's highly likely:

The first place Kadaj 1 appears is Junon, at least where he is shown in the story. But he dies under the glaciers past Icicle Inn. Considering he can seemingly move around anywhere he likes, I would think he could have been born anywhere. Sephiroth was already able to have some influence on the surface all over the world (Geostigma), so there's no reason he couldn't just make Kadaj anywhere? But after Kadaj dies having found a piece of Jenova at the Northern Crater area, then Sephiroth created Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo in the crater because that's where he realised that's where Jenova was?

was was i talking about again

 

[Roger]

Well that makes sense for the novel>AC transition.

But is there any particular reason he ever thought otherwise? They're at the Crater because that's where Sephiroth himself gathered them there. Why wouldn't he start his search at the Crater?

 

[Wolfmania]

I wasn't saying Sephiroth divided into the remnants, I'm saying maybe he divided the first Kadaj into them (or more accurately, divided whatever energy he used creating the first Kadaj into three), hence why Kadaj in the movie isn't nearly as badass.

But that's exactly what I'd find a bit convoluted. As in Seph just decided Numbers > Quality. He had a very powerful will, and those remnants are all made from him forcing that will into the surface. My guess is that he re-exerted Kadaj back into shape from that original energy we see and then breed two new guys to bolster his forces even more. He already had the memories and such for Kadaj, he practically just had to look some shape's up for his bro's.

And, of course, there's the thing about him being seemingly stronger. But as I said before, I don't find that such a damning issue. The novel Kadaj didn't display summoning of Shadow Creepers or evaporation, yet movie didn't teleport/flash-step around or shape-shift nearly as much as novel one, even though he likely could since he was as powerul as Seph was in the game. He wasn't particularly different personality-wise, he just got a good chance to shine, playing with relatively weak individuals.

I just don't think Sephy would backtrack like that, I think he just saw that shit was tough and maybe his creation needed extra help so he made it to cover for the mistake. Better safe han sorry I'd guess.