New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)

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minimosey

Pro Adventurer
Isn't it actually IC for Cloud to say things like that, though? In the very beginning of the game, Cloud calls Midgar "a floating city...pretty unsettling scenery". Barret even points out it's not something he expected to hear from Cloud, but of course it's IC; Cloud just doesn't talk that way often. And in the Lifestream sequence:

Third 'Cloud' said:
......a sealed up secret...... wish...... Tender memories......no one can ever know.........

The slightly fantastical "wish on a star" doesn't seem that unusual for a guy who'd come up with a non-literal description of "floating city". I don't think Cloud himself is thinking of the well promise, but I do see it as a possible reference by the writers, as Cloud already has "wish" and "star" connected to Tifa. Not as direct as other references in Dissidia, but still possible.
 

Nursie

just another lurker
Wow, the LTD still exists? One would think after all these years...never mind. :lol:

After reading the relevant parts of this LTD, I see I'm surrounded by Cloud/Tifa fans. I'm a Cloud/Aeris fan myself, however, I don't support necrophilia. I believe that while Aeris was alive, Cloud and Aeris shared a very special relationship that probably would've lead to love. Because of her death, it was a "love that could never be" (according to the original FFVII commercial).

But, she's dead, yet still in Cloud's heart. And because he didn't die in AC, OR ACC, I think if he were real he would be human enough to move on. Perhaps with Tifa. Cloud/Tifa are very cute, IMO, but I am a sick, twisted person who prefers Tifa with someone whos a little more...unsuited for her.

Cloud can stay single for the fangirls. :awesome:

In reference to the flowerfields in Dissidia, I do think it is a strong symbolism for Aeris. However, there is nothing there to lead the player to believe it is at all romantic. Cloud was pretty much heart broken over Aeris' death, so she was obviously special to him. Yet there is nothing he can do about it. So, why not, Cloud? Tifa's right there for the taking. :D
 

Vendel

Banned
Wow, the LTD still exists? One would think after all these years...never mind. :lol:

After reading the relevant parts of this LTD, I see I'm surrounded by Cloud/Tifa fans. I'm a Cloud/Aeris fan myself, however, I don't support necrophilia. I believe that while Aeris was alive, Cloud and Aeris shared a very special relationship that probably would've lead to love. Because of her death, it was a "love that could never be" (according to the original FFVII commercial).

But, she's dead, yet still in Cloud's heart. And because he didn't die in AC, OR ACC, I think if he were real he would be human enough to move on. Perhaps with Tifa. Cloud/Tifa are very cute, IMO, but I am a sick, twisted person who prefers Tifa with someone whos a little more...unsuited for her.

Cloud can stay single for the fangirls. :awesome:

In reference to the flowerfields in Dissidia, I do think it is a strong symbolism for Aeris. However, there is nothing there to lead the player to believe it is at all romantic. Cloud was pretty much heart broken over Aeris' death, so she was obviously special to him. Yet there is nothing he can do about it. So, why not, Cloud? Tifa's right there for the taking. :D

Well you don't think Cloud is forever pining away after the Flower Girl. Or worse yet thinks he can still be with her. So that puts you a couple steps ahead of some.

A few things though.

1. What about C and A's relationship (brief as it was) makes you think it would lead to love between them? Especially given the revelations later in the game about C/T?

2. What about those revelations makes you think C and T are not together by the end of the game? Let alone afterwords when Cloud is the one to specifically say he will be with Tifa from then on?

3. Why does Zack never get brought up? In relation to Aerith's actions in FFVII or Clouds throughout the compilation? Hell the first shot we see of Cloud in AC/C is at Zack's grave marker.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Wow, the LTD still exists? One would think after all these years...never mind. :lol:

Well, certain parties do insist the question is not settled, or settled against the living choice. Or that Cloud is gay.

After reading the relevant parts of this LTD, I see I'm surrounded by Cloud/Tifa fans. I'm a Cloud/Aeris fan myself, however, I don't support necrophilia. I believe that while Aeris was alive, Cloud and Aeris shared a very special relationship that probably would've lead to love. Because of her death, it was a "love that could never be" (according to the original FFVII commercial).

Ah, a position of nuance. The best kind to scrutinize. I technically disagree (the probably part. Circumstances make it unlikely that it would have become romantic love, or more specifically actualized, even had she lived), but that's presently neither here nor there.
Also, that's not strictly speaking, the 'Original FFVII commercial.' Even in English. The first one was the 'Won't be coming to the big screen' commercial (I think) and the JP commercial was focused mostly on shots of the game's development, emphasizing the 3D and such.

But, she's dead, yet still in Cloud's heart.

Nitpick: And Tifa's, And Barret's, and Red's, and Yuffie's, and Vincent's, and Cid's, and Reeve's, and Marlene's. She's still in all their hearts.

And because he didn't die in AC, OR ACC, I think if he were real he would be human enough to move on. Perhaps with Tifa.

Well, he kinda already did. Before the end of the game.

Cloud/Tifa are very cute, IMO, but I am a sick, twisted person who prefers Tifa with someone whos a little more...unsuited for her.

You crazy Diamond WEAPONfa shipper, you.

Cloud can stay single for the fangirls. :awesome:

In reference to the flowerfields in Dissidia, I do think it is a strong symbolism for Aeris. However, there is nothing there to lead the player to believe it is at all romantic.

Plus, it has to get through also being a symbol of Firi's dream of a peaceful world as adopted by Cloud, so if it is a reference to Aerith- and again, It's odd that it's not referenced as such when CORNELIA CASTLE got mentioned- it has Firi's plot to tread around too.

Cloud was pretty much heart broken over Aeris' death, so she was obviously special to him. Yet there is nothing he can do about it. So, why not, Cloud? Tifa's right there for the taking. :D

And the taking again after breakfast in the storage room.
Interesting point- few people would argue that Aerith wasn't special to Cloud. But likewise, she was special to everyone else as well. It's not about 'Is Aerith special to Cloud?' (the answer to that is yes), but 'Is Aerith more special to Cloud than other people? Is Aerith more special to Cloud than other people are to him?' That's more relevant. Especially if you ask those two questions with Tifa, the kids, and Zack as your points of comparison.
 
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Alexia Ashford

SOMEONE IN THE CORRIDOR?
AKA
Konneh
I think that Aerith was a very important woman in Cloud's life. That doesn't mean he must be in love with her. There are lots of people in Cloud's life that are important to him besides Aerith. That doesn't mean he's in love with all of them.
I've heard the fact that he cried when Aerith died means he loved her. Does that mean if anyone else died he wouldn't cry?
What I got from Aerith's death scene is the same as what I got from Zack's death in relation to Cloud's reaction.
Aerith isn't ONLY important to Cloud either. I mean, look at how much of an impact she had on Marlene who was only four!
She was important to Tifa as well, even to the point where Tifa sensed her presence and was actually able to thank her.

Sorry. I'm kinda rambling now. :/
 

Tir McDohl

rune bearer
AKA
Yula
I can understand how a player could think that Cloud and Aerith would've probably been together if she hadn't died. That English commercial definitely made it seem like they were a couple, albeit one that didn't work out in the end(I myself never saw it until years later after when I'd already played the game a bunch of times). I can also see how Cloud's reaction to Aerith's death could seem very romantic if they picked C/A options up to that point. Especially if they saw that "love that can never be" commercial before playing the game. I would agree that they were likely to end up together if Aerih'd lived. That is, I would've agreed if Tifa didn't exist. But that particular 'if' is a huge one.

Anyway, Aerith is the first of VII's main heroines we see. Actually she's the first character we ever see in the game, isn't she? VII opens with a scene of outer space then a close-up of Aerith's face. Shows her walking through the slums of Midgar before the "camera" finds it's way to Cloud and AVALANCHE on the first mission of the game.

It's been over a decade since the first time I ever played VII but I remember thinking something along the lines of "Oh, that's probably the main girl". I was definitely expecting to meet up with her very soon after. When Cloud bumped into Aerith after the first mission I chose the option to buy the flower from her. Well after that exchange I felt that, yeah, this was the main girl.

From this point on different player choices, speaking to NPCs at specific times.. depending at what the person playing does or doesn't do obviously changes your perspective.

I shifted mine from C/A to C/T pretty much at the beginning of the game.

The first time you can see any kind of hints towards who Cloud likes is right after you return to Sector 7 from that first mission. When you try to follow the party into Seventh Heaven, well if you do it quickly enough, Barret will tease Cloud about seeing his "little baby". You have two options to respond to him with, but either one gives the impression that Cloud *might* like this girl a little. You can see the little interaction between :56 and 1:12 of this vid:



(^If you choose "Out of my way!", I believe Barret says something like "Heh heh... Jes calm down. Don't want nobody suspectin' nothin'.)

This is optional. If you take too long to approach Barret he skips to the "Ok! Go on ahead." part. (Also inside Seventh Heaven sometime at the beginning of the game, I'm pretty sure it's right after you give the flower to either Tifa or Marlene, if you talk to Jessie before trying to exit the bar to get Barret to come tromping in, she's jealously grumbling about Cloud being all excited to be around Tifa. So that's another little bit of dialogue that steered me toward C/T early on. There's also another bit around the same time where speaking to a NPC reveals that everyone in Sector 7's been gossiping about how well Cloud and Tifa have been gettin' along or something, not to mention Johnny acting jealous and kinda confrontational to Cloud because Johnny's like, obsessed with Tifa or something.)

I just happened to see this stuff. I thought it was cute. I started choosing any C/T options I could. I just happened to start shipping VII's canon couple on my first ever play through FFVII. The first play is pretty important, and it's why a lot of shippers continued to hold onto C/A even after its possibilities all fell through.

Well, my reply was more of a general thing than one directly to Nursie.
Just trying to say that first impressions are obviously important and it's why this went on for so long. And stuff. Also, sorry that I'm not very concise in my typing, but I just woke up/my cat died.
 
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Nursie

just another lurker
Vendel said:
1. What about C and A's relationship (brief as it was) makes you think it would lead to love between them? Especially given the revelations later in the game about C/T?

2. What about those revelations makes you think C and T are not together by the end of the game? Let alone afterwords when Cloud is the one to specifically say he will be with Tifa from then on?

3. Why does Zack never get brought up? In relation to Aerith's actions in FFVII or Clouds throughout the compilation? Hell the first shot we see of Cloud in AC/C is at Zack's grave marker.

1. Well, I believe that there are as many revelations about Cloud and Aeris as there are about Cloud and Tifa. I don't deny the possibility of Cloud and Tifa, but Cloud and Aeris is just as likely. And, Aeris is dead, so if Cloud and Tifa ended up being together, then I can see the logical sense in that. Sorry if thats kinda vague. :lol:

2. When does Cloud say that the end of the game he will be with Tifa? :huh: The only dialogue I remember with Cloud at the end is in the FMV, where he talks about meeting Aerith in the promised land.

3. Not sure what you mean there. :)

Ryu said:
Nitpick: And Tifa's, And Barret's, and Red's, and Yuffie's, and Vincent's, and Cid's, and Reeve's, and Marlene's. She's still in all their hearts.

Of course. I don't argue with that. Yet, it seems to me, in the game, that Cloud has a connection with Aeris that the others may not have had (there is no evidence given for those other members). Judging by how Cloud reacted to her death in relation to others, I'd say it was pretty intense!

I have no doubt she was special to all of them, yet it was Cloud that saw her hand reaching out to him after defeating Sephiroth, it was Aeris who appeared to Cloud in his dream before she died.

Ryu said:
You crazy Diamond WEAPONfa shipper, you.

Eheh...how'd you guess?? XD Actually, its more along the lines of an arrogant, egomaniacal narcissist who enjoys money, power, and instilling fear into the people beneath his regime. :lol:

Yula said:
Well, my reply was more of a general thing than one directly to Nursie.

Well, thanks.

I appreciate your points, too. Yeah, I remember that part of the game (I started playing it again the other day). Barret does refer to Cloud about Tifa as his "baby". Yet, its written in the script that Cloud reassures Aeris on several occasions that he is there for her. Such as "Hey, I'm your bodyguard, right?" And, "But I'm...we're here for your, right?" Correcting himself rather sheepishly. ^_^ It could go either way.

First impressions have sent people down both the 'Clerith' path and the 'Cloti' path. It just all depends on interpretation.

Whew! :lol:
 

Tir McDohl

rune bearer
AKA
Yula
Well, thanks.

Um, you're welcome. I just made that clear because I didn't want it to seem like I was assuming anything about the way you may or may not have seen the game.

Yeah, I remember that part of the game (I started playing it again the other day). Barret does refer to Cloud about Tifa as his "baby". Yet, its written in the script that Cloud reassures Aeris on several occasions that he is there for her. Such as "Hey, I'm your bodyguard, right?" And, "But I'm...we're here for your, right?" Correcting himself rather sheepishly. ^_^ It could go either way.

I didn't actually intend to make it a "1 point for T, 1 point for A" thing, though. :) Just:

First impressions have sent people down both the 'Clerith' path and the 'Cloti' path.

That. The first time through you either go for C/A or C/T(unless it's both or neither, but that's much less common). I was just relating my own first experience. Just looking for something to discuss. I didn't have any big point to make. Sorry.

Eheh...how'd you guess?? XD Actually, its more along the lines of an arrogant, egomaniacal narcissist who enjoys money, power, and instilling fear into the people beneath his regime.

Rufus/Tifa? *-*
 

Nursie

just another lurker
Yula said:
That. The first time through you either go for C/A or C/T(unless it's both or neither, but that's much less common). I was just relating my own first experience. Just looking for something to discuss. I didn't have any big point to make. Sorry.

Of course! No need to apologize. ^_^ You had good points.

Yula said:
Rufus/Tifa? *-*

Absolutely. :loopy: Yes, I told you I was a sick, twisted person. No proof, no evidence, just pure fanon. XD :monster:
 

OneWingedDemon

NOT AMUSED
Yet, its written in the script that Cloud reassures Aeris on several occasions that he is there for her. Such as "Hey, I'm your bodyguard, right?" And, "But I'm...we're here for your, right?" Correcting himself rather sheepishly. ^_^ It could go either way.
Barret does the same for Tifa, as do Red and Cid. Cloud does the same for Tifa as well, Tifa for Cloud etc. They are all friends and they care for each other. It's not behavior that exclusively indicates romance.

Tifa is, however, the one Cloud repeatedly singles out in a manner he does for no other member of AVALANCHE.
 

Elisa Maza

Whomst
Just to clarify...

2. When does Cloud say that the end of the game he will be with Tifa? :huh: The only dialogue I remember with Cloud at the end is in the FMV, where he talks about meeting Aerith in the promised land.

Vendel refers to the novella Case of Tifa, which covers the life of Cloud and Tifa between the end of FFVII and the beginning of Advent Children (Complete). There, as Meteor is wiped (or, a little later), Cloud says that he is going to live this new life that begins with the destruction of Meteor, believing that this is the only way to be forgiven for his sins, namely his failure to save Zack and Aerith, and he is confident that he will make it, because he has Tifa by his side, unlike in the past, when he was alone.

Long story short, he tells her "I want us to live together and I know I can succeed in this "together" thing, because it is with you."

Carry on. :monster:
 
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Vendel

Banned
1. Well, I believe that there are as many revelations about Cloud and Aeris as there are about Cloud and Tifa.

Wait...what?

The only revelation you learn about C/A is that Aerith chases Cloud because of Zack.

The big reveal of the entire game (lifestream sequence) revolves around Cloud and Tifa.

I don't deny the possibility of Cloud and Tifa, but Cloud and Aeris is just as likely.

How is/was it just as likely? I can't help but wonder if the meaning of the LS was lost on you.

3. Not sure what you mean there. :)

Of course not. This whole Zack thing is just one big inconvenience to the whole C/A thing.

Of course. I don't argue with that. Yet, it seems to me, in the game, that Cloud has a connection with Aeris that the others may not have had (there is no evidence given for those other members).

A connection? Say it with me. Z A C K.

Judging by how Cloud reacted to her death in relation to others, I'd say it was pretty intense!

Cloud got angry when Aerith died. He had a breakdown when Zack died. And he shed tears.

Clack?

I have no doubt she was special to all of them, yet it was Cloud that saw her hand reaching out to him after defeating Sephiroth,

Was it her hand? Does Cloud know this? And whose hand did it turn out to be? Oh right Tifa. That is what snaps Cloud out of his funk.

it was Aeris who appeared to Cloud in his dream before she died.

So did Sephy. 3-some?
 

Sheva Alomar

I'm Alive and on Fire
AKA
Adri, Sir Integra, Fiona, Sango
Make all the new threads you want, but the rotting stench of that horse you've been flogging for five years won't go away.
 

Nursie

just another lurker
Thanks, Tea-chan. I was thinking in the context of the game. CoT didn't even occur to me. My bad. :whistle:

Vendel, you mention that Aeris chases Cloud because of Zack. Of course she did. Thats what drew her in the beginning. But doesn't Aeris say in the Gondola to Cloud (if she is picked for the date), "things are different. You're different." I dunno. I guess from that, Aeris changed her mind, which I guess the creators intended. In Maiden Who Walks the Planet (or whatever other name it has :lol:) she even said to Zack, "Who knows. Things might have changed after five years."

Of course not. This whole Zack thing is just one big inconvenience to the whole C/A thing.

Actually, I didn't understand the phrasing of the question. But after your enlightenment, I realise what White Mage meant.

I'll go back to lurkin' nao.

I think I will too. :whistle: I kinda retired from this a couple years ago. Its just that I saw alot of CloudxTifa comments, so I decided to put in my two cents. :hohum: And I'm just one of those people who loves sharing their opinion. Yah, it gets me in trouble. A lot. :ego:
 

Vendel

Banned
Vendel, you mention that Aeris chases Cloud because of Zack. Of course she did. Thats what drew her in the beginning. But doesn't Aeris say in the Gondola to Cloud (if she is picked for the date), "things are different. You're different." I dunno. I guess from that, Aeris changed her mind, which I guess the creators intended.

In the beginning? More like 90% of the time that Aerith and Cloud were in the same group she was chasing after the shadow of Zack. Then in a scene that you may or may not get she admits that Cloud isn't Zack. Then after that Cloud beats the shit out of her and she runs off and gets herself killed.

And if the creators intended for Zack to be shuffled off in the background and that Aerith 'got over it' they sure as heck did a bad job of that with CC and AC/C. And FVII for that matter.
 
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Fighter

Pro Adventurer
Nursie:

So what's your take on the recent and not so recent explicit Ultimania stuff. Because that's the real elephant in the room that broke circular interpretation fest of the past.
 

Elisa Maza

Whomst
Thanks, Tea-chan. I was thinking in the context of the game. CoT didn't even occur to me. My bad. :whistle:

No prob.

Speaking of which, I no longer view the Compilation as "titles", but as a continuous story. I no longer see the ending of FFVII as an "ending". It's just another "phase" that passed and onto the next one!

Am I the only one? :huh:

Vendel, you mention that Aeris chases Cloud because of Zack. Of course she did. Thats what drew her in the beginning. But doesn't Aeris say in the Gondola to Cloud (if she is picked for the date), "things are different. You're different." I dunno. I guess from that, Aeris changed her mind, which I guess the creators intended. In Maiden Who Walks the Planet (or whatever other name it has :lol:) she even said to Zack, "Who knows. Things might have changed after five years."

Save for the bold part, I agree. (Mainly because I don't want to see Maiden in front of me in my life again. Ever.) I always viewed Aerith chasing for Zack in Cloud, realizing what she's doing when she meets his parents and the idea that he is dead starts growing in her mind, and starting to wish to know the man in front of her for real.

And then, she died. I will never stop believing she is the tragic character of FFVII (okay, there is a plethora of them, but she IS a symbol of failure for the franchise).

And you know, I cannot shake the suicidal feeling of that quote from CoT I posted a few pages ago at all. :no:
 
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Eheh...how'd you guess?? XD Actually, its more along the lines of an arrogant, egomaniacal narcissist who enjoys money, power, and instilling fear into the people beneath his regime.

Is this... another RufusxTifa fan who realizes she deserves someone way better than Cloud? :awesome:


<3
 

OneWingedDemon

NOT AMUSED
Judging by how Cloud reacted to her death in relation to others
...what others?

How Cloud reacted to the death of a playable main character should not be compared to the amount of time SE spends on the death of a secondary or minor character like Jessie. Aeris got the big burial because A) she's a dear friend who was murdered (after he beat her up, almost killed her himself and then stood there like an idiot while Seph stabbed her) and B) because it's the Big Twist: a main heroine dies.

When he lost his mom and when he thought Tifa was dead, Cloud rushed against Sephiroth overcome by rage and grief even though he was a mere grunt and had no chance.

It's not that he didn't care for them --it's his MOM-- it's just that those scenes don't get the special FMV treatment the way Aeris' does for obvious reasons. They've hardly anything to do with Aeris being somehow more important than all others to Cloud. Can we agree lack of slo-mo treatment is not indicative of Cloud not caring for his fucking mom?

I mean, if you wanna take that route, his reaction to Zack's death would probably rank as the undisputed, ultimate #1. He takes up his sword and decides to live for him, as his legacy.
 
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