So is Sephiroth the strongest dude in FF7 or what

[Ryushikaze]

And from all those times, the only moment where Sephiroth decided to use more than just his sword(aka the end of FFVII) Cloud needed a lot of help to beat him.

But Cloud is still stronger because we think Sephiroth is "0vErrAtEd!!!11one" and, for that reason, doesn't deserve any credit.

I agree with this.

Yes, the one time Sephiroth is directly jacking into an external power source to boost his power, Cloud needs help. Then when the fight comes down to actual, y'know, SKILL, Cloud wins.

Speaking of outside power source, OWA, didn't you cry foul a long time ago regarding Trance Kuja in a comparison of final villians because 'the power wasn't all his own', so his BDZ to Raw explosion of Terra didn't count?
Or do I simply have you confused with another extreme Sephiroth fan in this instance?

Addendum: Shimaura, One, FTL TRAVEL IS A FUCKING EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM. IT IS POSSIBLY ONE OF THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS ONES OUTSIDE OF GODS. Two, I point out that Loz, Weiss, and Rosso did not move FTL either. We saw them, at 1x speed, moving quickly, but not at the speed of light. What enables them to move extra fast leaves a visible trail. Or was Squall moving FTL when HE was moving? Do the characters in Megaman move FTL when they leave afterimages? Afterimages often mean moving fast, but A: not always, and B: Certainly not at the speed of light. SoL and FTL do not work that way.

As for the golden glowing, call it hypermako, because I know for a fact that 'gold shift' is not an effect of extreme movement.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I didn't claim anything extraordinary, characters moving faster then the eye can, while the viewer is still given the benefit of seeing him is an old, cliche, beaten down story device. I'm honestly not seeing why you find it so hard to accept. I've said this before, this isn't new. Loz, Weiss and Rosso did as well. But you know as well as I do Omnislash V5 was never given an explanation. I can ask you for where that goldenglowing supposed energy was coming from as well.

It's Cloud's spirit energy. What else would it be? And FYI, Omnislash V5 does get an explanation. In the Crisis Core Complete guide and the 10th Anniversary Ultimania. It's a variant of Omnislash. It's spirit energy.

And again. It's not faster than light. You make no damn sense. If he's leaving after images and can be seen as a blur, then he's moving fast, but he's so fast we visually can't fully track him. But it's still visible.

If you're moving faster than light, you'd disappear because the light would be moving too fast for our eyes to track.

 

[Roger]

It's Cloud's spirit energy. What else would it be? And FYI, Omnislash V5 does get an explanation. In the Crisis Core Complete guide and the 10th Anniversary Ultimania. It's a variant of Omnislash. It's spirit energy.

More specifically that would be spirit energy leaving his body enmasse as he pretty much paints the sky with it. That for some reason they changed to the colour Loz uses in the movement that was stated the movie was slowed down for to track.

And again. It's not faster than light. You make no damn sense. If he's leaving after images and can be seen as a blur, then he's moving fast, but he's so fast we visually can't fully track him. But it's still visible.

I'll quote the entry you specified
"In the blink of an eye, 14 hits of damage are dealt one after another…."

blink your eyes. See how fast that goes. I take my hat off for you if you think you'd be able to see a guy delivering 14 seperate blows in that time then good for you. Personally, I don't think i would.

If you're moving faster than light, you'd disappear because the light would be moving too fast for our eyes to track.

Like I said before, anyone that want to beat the dead horse and argue the definition of the speed of light is free to do so. Have fun. As for me, I don't tink to much when I'm watcing anime: The light was over there, Cloud was already over here, more light was left over here, Cloud was over there now, repeat that another four times. By the end of it, the light at all places was still visual. When he fit the ground suddenly it all disappeared simultanously. This is fiction. Hell this is Advent Children. Gravity and physics left the building for drink a long time ago.

 

[Dashell]

That for some reason they changed to the colour Loz uses in the movement that was stated the movie was slowed down for to track.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I don't remember this, where was this stated?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I'll quote the entry you specified
"In the blink of an eye, 14 hits of damage are dealt one after another…."

blink your eyes. See how fast that goes. I take my hat off for you if you think you'd be able to see a guy delivering 14 seperate blows in that time then good for you. Personally, I don't think i would.

jesus christ

 

[Max Payne]

If physics and gravity don't matter then saying anything about shit being FTL is beyond silly and a moot point.

 

[Joker]

If physics and gravity don't matter then saying anything about shit being FTL is beyond silly and a moot point.

If?

Materia. That is all.

This entire "are they or aren't they FTL" debate is POINTLESS.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

They aren't faster than light because there's nothing to prove that it is. It is fiction, so sure, it's possible. If I had reason to believe that a move was FTL, I would take it. But, from what we see, Omnislash is not FTL. It just isn't.

 

[Max Payne]

If?

Materia. That is all.

This entire "are they or aren't they FTL" debate is POINTLESS.

You compelely missed the point of my post.

You can't say that physics and gravity don't apply then turn around and use their terms at your own discretion.

It's a massive contradiction. If physics and gravity don't apply, there is no "FASTER THAN LIGHT" you can only conclude that he's moving pretty fast and leave it at that.

 

[Roger]

Okay. Fine. Let's try this again.

The writers were trying to establish something about Cloud's speed. It goes pretty far. Sephiroth hasn't show the same yet.

Could you people live with this statement?

 

[Joker]

They aren't faster than light because there's nothing to prove that it is. It is fiction, so sure, it's possible. If I had reason to believe that a move was FTL, I would take it. But, from what we see, Omnislash is not FTL. It just isn't.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

There's nothing to lead us to believe he's moving FTL. Absolutely nothing. The end.

 

[Tetsujin]

I'll quote the entry you specified
"In the blink of an eye, 14 hits of damage are dealt one after another…."

blink your eyes. See how fast that goes. I take my hat off for you if you think you'd be able to see a guy delivering 14 seperate blows in that time then good for you. Personally, I don't think i would.

Oh jesus, I know those books are like the bible for you guys, but I wouldn't take every word as truth.
"Blink of an eye" is merely a literary expression for saying "really fucking fast". But I doubt it LITERALLY means "in the blink of an eye". =/

 

[Ryushikaze]

More specifically that would be spirit energy leaving his body enmasse as he pretty much paints the sky with it. That for some reason they changed to the colour Loz uses in the movement that was stated the movie was slowed down for to track.

Citation on 'slowed down to track' and yes, Cloud is pumping out energy en masse, but it's hardly 'painting the sky'

I'll quote the entry you specified
"In the blink of an eye, 14 hits of damage are dealt one after another…."

blink your eyes. See how fast that goes. I take my hat off for you if you think you'd be able to see a guy delivering 14 seperate blows in that time then good for you. Personally, I don't think i would.

ITT, hyperliteralism is applied.

Like I said before, anyone that want to beat the dead horse and argue the definition of the speed of light is free to do so. Have fun. As for me, I don't tink to much when I'm watcing anime: The light was over there, Cloud was already over here, more light was left over here, Cloud was over there now, repeat that another four times. By the end of it, the light at all places was still visual. When he fit the ground suddenly it all disappeared simultanously. This is fiction. Hell this is Advent Children. Gravity and physics left the building for drink a long time ago.

Gravity and physics are still applying. A force counteracting gravity does not mean gravity no longer applies.
And I shall now point out that Mako is a LIGHT EMITTING substance that can linger in place, and that is what Cloud is leaving behind, not a raw mass of unmoving photons.
Or does no one recall, oh, say, Blade Beam?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Yes. Yes it is. I look somewhere, I find no spacewhales, I can make no positive conclusions as to the existence of spacewhales, and can conclude there are no spacewhales there.
Rational Reductionalism FTW.

 

[Roger]

So taking it back actually isn't going to be enough you people, fine...

I'll quote the entry you specified
"In the blink of an eye, 14 hits of damage are dealt one after another…."

blink your eyes. See how fast that goes. I take my hat off for you if you think you'd be able to see a guy delivering 14 seperate blows in that time then good for you. Personally, I don't think i would.

No seriously, we are having a discussion about how fast Cloud is going. Mako Eyes brings up Ultimania's discription of it as evidence, this is what it says. You know you could have told in advance what parts suited your argument and which didn't.



Spritenergy that Cloud uses as a weapon.



Spiritenergy that Cloud uses shield/whatever.



Something CLEARLY different.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's ALL spirit energy. It's just a different color. What are you not understanding about that?

I brought up the Ultimania profile since it states Cloud charges the blade with his spirit energy. That's the same damn thing he's doing with Omnislash V6, which is a variant of Omnislash. What's hard to understand about that? An expression regarding its speed that you're taking way too literally was never the point.

The original Japanese line regarding the speed was "in an instant." It being translated as "a blink of an eye" is not a LITERAL fucking measurement of how fast the strikes are. Hyperbole. That's all.

 

[Dashell]

...

Spritenergy that Cloud uses as a weapon.

Spiritenergy that Cloud uses shield/whatever.

Something CLEARLY different.

...
*looks back and forth at posts*....

...

they're exactly the same...

 

[Roger]

It's ALL spirit energy. It's just a different color. What are you not understanding about that?

I brought up the Ultimania profile since it states Cloud charges the blade with his spirit energy. That's the same damn thing he's doing with Omnislash V6, which is a variant of Omnislash. What's hard to understand about that? An expression regarding its speed that you're taking way too literally was never the point.

The original Japanese line regarding the speed was "in an instant." It being translated as "a blink of an eye" is not a LITERAL fucking measurement of how fast the strikes are. Hyperbole. That's all.

Then don't fucking bring it up in a debate about his speed if we're suppose to not take it seriously then. I can argue that when they say spirit energy they mean the power of love or something like that, not something actually visible while the blue stuff is mako.

And it's not the same thing. The spirit energy he used earlier surrounds him as a glow and stays with him. They don't form likenessess of Cloud, everywhere turns, as he goes around. It acts completely different.

 

[Dashell]

And it's not the same thing. The spirit energy he used earlier surrounds him as a glow and stays with him. They don't form likenessess of Cloud, everywhere turns, as he goes around. It acts completely different.

Why can't spirit energy do more than one thing?

 

[Joker]

Yes. Yes it is. I look somewhere, I find no spacewhales, I can make no positive conclusions as to the existence of spacewhales, and can conclude there are no spacewhales there.
Rational Reductionalism FTW.

Doesn't mean that spacewhales don't exist, which is what the phrase means, as you're well aware.

You're arguing now for absolutely no reason. Let it go.

 

[Dashell]

Doesn't mean that spacewhales don't exist, which is what the phrase means, as you're well aware.

You're arguing now for absolutely no reason. Let it go.

He said they don't exist THERE, not anywhere... I think...
Actually, sorry .. it's late, I'll let Ryu explain it. I'm sure he can do it better.

 

[Roger]

Why can't spirit energy do more than one thing?

I don't see why, he uses it as a weapon, or to give him glowing strength, or to shield, instead he leaves it behind to show where he's been when we can clearly see this for ourselves... why? It's his strongest attack and he uses all his energy on the position marking? I don't get it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Then don't fucking bring it up in a debate about his speed if we're suppose to not take it seriously then. I can argue that when they say spirit energy they mean the power of love or something like that, not something actually visible while the blue stuff is mako.

And it's not the same thing. The spirit energy he used earlier surrounds him as a glow and stays with him. They don't form likenessess of Cloud, everywhere turns, as he goes around. It acts completely different.

Do you not know how to keep up with a topic...? I never brought up the topic of his speed in regards to looking at the text of the Ultimania.

It's Cloud's spirit energy. What else would it be? And FYI, Omnislash V5 does get an explanation. In the Crisis Core Complete guide and the 10th Anniversary Ultimania. It's a variant of Omnislash. It's spirit energy.

It was in regards to you saying it wasn't his spirit energy and it Omnislash V. 5 was never explained. Jesus, keep up with the convo, and don't cry when you don't make sense.

It's MAKO. Spirit energy. When they say "spirit energy" they're not talking about the power of love or whatever nonsense you're talking about. Spirit energy means spirit energy from the body. Lifestream. Mako. Where the hell would you get "the power of love" from?

He uses his spirit energy to charge his sword strikes and even create tangible after images that attack in tandem with his real body and then explode.

 

[Dark and Divine]

It's his strongest attack and he uses all his energy on the position marking? I don't get it.

When Cloud is about to conect the last blow of Omnislash V6, those afterimages converge into Sephiroth and attack him with each component of the Fusion Sword, followed by Cloud himself dealing the final blow.

Yes, it might look like Cloud is just marking positions, but in reality, those afterimages are part of the attack.

 

[Dashell]

Maybe it's not something he does completely consciously. Maybe when he uses a lot of spirit energy, stuff like that happens. He almost made copies of himself that attacked Sephiroth. I mean what are you arguing here? That he used something OTHER than spirit energy?

EDIT:
aannnnd as per usual the two guys above me did a much better job