So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Zee]

lol u gaiz

Yuna, and Rikku's core characterization came from FFX, not the sequel. Namely Yuna's desire to help others and sacrifice herself, and Rikku's desire to look after her. Rikku and Paine may have been "good enough", but they sure left out the core of Yuna's core personality, which was far from being an airhead. Tidus's core wasn't just him being "bright and cheery." He also had a crybaby mentality and a father complex. I guess you seem to conveniently forget the core aspects and personalities of FF characters when trying to prove a point.

And you got on me for confusing the FF characters with their KH selves.

In fairness, core wasn't the right word. Moar like, the basics of their characters remain the same.

Oh for the love of.. you are the last Clerith I expected to go there.

lol I should have been the first~

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, because you did and were making zero sense.

They may share some similarities but they're not the same and they definitely aren't all the same in terms of their core and basic principles that made them who they were in their own Final Fantasy.

 

[Zee]

Despite my use instead of "core" rather than "basic", the argument remains, and it actually makes plenty of sense for anyone who isn't trying to dig in their heels and pretend they didn't just contradict themselves.

 

[Dashell]

... Zee what is your point again?... I'm not following.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You're the one backing away from your initial claim of them being the same, so I'm not sure how anyone but you is contradicting themselves. The KH characters are no where near the exact same as the FF characters. They're vaguely similar but they're widely different due to the differing circumstances and storylines they exist in. Unless you believe deep down inside Yuna is a ditzy pixie at heart.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Which is the same as in the start of FF7 when he pretended to be a hardass but was really a marshmallow on the inside. He also said in FF7 he didn't give a shit about the Planet or AVALANCHE, neither of which was true. Same routine.

Unless you're falling into the "Cloud was always an emo badass" end of the fandom, in which case you'd be horribly wrong.

This is something that irks the shit outta me. Cloud is not and never was a "marshmallow". Why the fuck do people confuse that? ZACK was the soft side. For fuck sake the kid BEAT THE SHIT out of his neighbors, regularly. He is not all soft and fuzzy on the inside.

And news flash--Cloud didn't give a shit about the planet or AVALANCHE. He went after Sephiroth for revenge, NOT with the lofty goal of saving anything or anyone.

Only after reconciling his true self in the lifestream do we get a slightly softer side of Cloud, and even then he tells AVALANCHE that he's fighting for "a very special memory" (or something akin to that) NOT for the benevolence of all mankind.

Cloud will rip your fucking head off and not feel a shred of remorse doing it.

He is not an unfeeling bastard, but he's definitely not some soft "emotive" man hiding beneath a fake hard-ass shell. Just the opposite: He's a hard ass with a sliver of softness that only a select few get to see.

I don't care what universe it's in.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Only after reconciling his true self in the lifestream do we get a slightly softer side of Cloud, and even then he tells AVALANCHE that he's fighting for "a very special memory" (or something akin to that) NOT for the benevolence of all mankind.

Well that is true, but he did also say that while he did want to fight and save the planet, he didn't want to fight for JUST that reason. He wanted a personal reason himself, and he wanted everyone else to find one too. It was more along the lines of not wanting to just blindly throw himself into danger and battle without having a personal connection to such a bitter conflict, so they know the reason why they're all fighting and not just in it for the ride. Not that he didn't give a shit.

But yeah, thanks for raising that important point right there.

 

[Zee]

The KH characters are no where near the exact same as the FF characters. They're vaguely similar but they're widely different due to the differing circumstances and storylines they exist in.

Thanks for posting what you argued against me for two pages about.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Thanks for posting what you argued against me for two pages about.

Are you nuts? You were the one who said they were the same at the core. The core =/= vaguely similar. Vaguely means loosely, as in...superficially. You really do like to just read whatever you like into things. Especially when I claim they're widely different in the same sentence.

 

[Winter]

Eat a dick.

MARRY ME

WE CAN HAVE A THOUSAND HIDEOUS LOVECHILDREN

Well, wait, didn't he say "I'm looking for someone, Hades promised to help." in KH1?

See, I had always assumed this was a reference to Hercules. Like... the movie.

Kingdom Hearts references Disney, too, BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

Vaguely means loosely, as in...superficially. You really do like to just read whatever you like into things.

Zee actually isn't retarded, contrary to popular belief.

We know what vaguely means. Her point:
AT THE CORE THEY'RE THE SAME I MEAN SHIT different circumstances haven't changed them SO FUCKING MUCH. Cloud is still making retarded decisions and Aerith is still smart and Yuffie's still a Ninja and Squall is about where he was at at the end of FFVIII in terms of personality.

 

[Zee]

Are you nuts? You were the one who said they were the same at the core. The core =/= vaguely similar. Vaguely means loosely, as in...superficially. You really do like to just read whatever you like into things.

And I said core was the wrong word, and basic fit better, but my argument itself should have probably clued you into what I meant.

MARRY ME

WE CAN HAVE A THOUSAND HIDEOUS LOVECHILDREN

~thanks and masturbates furiously~

 

[Makoeyes987]

See, I had always assumed this was a reference to Hercules. Like... the movie.

Kingdom Hearts references Disney, too, BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

...But why in hell would Cloud be looking for Hercules?

And I said core was the wrong word, and basic fit better, but my argument itself should have probably clued you into what I meant.

We call that "backpedaling" in these parts, FYI. And your argument still made no sense because you were trying to argue how Yuna and other radically different FF characters were still the same "at the core" despite being transformed into forms and personalities that they never had in their original games.

 

[Zee]

No, it's not backpedaling because I said my point remained the same, just to replace a word I misused.

~FYI~

Her point:
AT THE CORE THEY'RE THE SAME I MEAN SHIT different circumstances haven't changed them SO FUCKING MUCH. Cloud is still making retarded decisions and Aerith is still smart and Yuffie's still a Ninja and Squall is about where he was at at the end of FFVIII in terms of personality.

THANK YOU, why this is so hard to grasp is beyond me.

 

[KissTheRain]

For fuck sake the kid BEAT THE SHIT out of his neighbors, regularly. He is not all soft and fuzzy on the inside.

I'm pretty sure he failed at beating up his neighbors and they then returned the favor, so that's another reason he would wanna go to SOLDIER. long with win the hottest babe in town because you can kick the other kiddies asses and save her.

I think Cloud has a soft side like in CoT and ACC for example he seems cutesy with the kids a bit and all. c:

And thank you FairHeartStrife for steering the bitch fight conversation away from KH, the spin off, AU, irrevelent to canon game.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No, it's not backpedaling because I said my point remained the same, just to replace a word I misused.

~FYI~

When you swap a word with another that completely and inherently changes the meaning of your entire argument, that's backpedaling, intentional or not. Next time you should probably choose your words carefully so you can keep a consistent argument.

 

[Zee]

You know exactly what I meant. Here, I'll go back and change the word and it'll still be the same thing.

Sorry to tread on what is surely a glorious victory.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, because everyone's a mind reader and knows your arguments beyond how you present them in the text you string together yourself.

 

[Zee]

They're all simplified versions of their FF counterparts, so the comparisons stand.

The very fact that I posted this should have clued you in, but I thuppose I hope for too much. I wish this thing had a doodle option so I could draw you pictures.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And Yuna being a pixie is not a simplified version of her FF counterpart. That should clue you in. Cloud's vague similarities to his original self are completely offset by the entirely different circumstances and scenarios that he's apart of in Kingdom Hearts. The point..you have missed it. Comparing the two and bringing in facts from one entirely different version of Cloud where he's entirely different and going through different things, makes zero sense.

 

[Winter]

For fuck sake the kid BEAT THE SHIT out of his neighbors, regularly. He is not all soft and fuzzy on the inside.

... wat

He was PICKED ON. He BEAT THEM UP. He's not Sylar, jesus fuck.

Cloud will rip your fucking head off and not feel a shred of remorse doing it.

Yes, I'm sure the kid that was BFF with his mother and cried like a baby when Aerith died is JUST LIKE THAT.

...But why in hell would Cloud be looking for Hercules?

... have you ever even seen the movie Hercules?

 

[Dashell]

I say just do it in paint and upload them

He was PICKED ON. He BEAT THEM UP. He's not Sylar, jesus fuck.

What? When was it ever pointed out that Cloud was picked on?

 

[Frostwave]

... have you ever even seen the movie Hercules?

Huh? Was Cloud in it?

 

[Zee]

And Yuna being a pixie is not a simplified version of her FF counterpart.

I'm talking about their personalities.

Christ did you take the slow bus today or something? Stop acting like you don't have two brain cells to rub together and can't figure out what I mean.

 

[Makoeyes987]

... have you ever even seen the movie Hercules?

Have you ever played Kingdom Hearts? Why would he be looking for Hercules if he's in the same tournament he's in, and Hades is the person telling him to go kill him? Why would he even need to look for him when his contract tells him that info already?

I'm talking about their personalities.

Christ did you take the slow bus today or something? Stop acting like you don't have two brain cells to rub together and can't figure out what I mean.

So Yuna's a ditzy airhead pixie at heart? I must've missed that in FFX-FFX-2.

Keep on with the insults btw, they do your argument good

 

[Dashell]

And yes their personalities in KH are similar to their personalities in their Final Fantasy words. No one should say otherwise. But you can't really bring in points from one world and spread them out over another, that ... just doesn't work. AU universe is AU.

EDIT:
Yuna wasn't an airhead in KH2... I think she was acting like her FFX-2 self. The one that said "poopie" and such.