So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[TheMadHatter]

I never said that either, I'm just saying they're good for showing him respect since he's confronted them on what they said.

Ah, okay. Understand

I kid, but yeah. Looking at it, they were actually pretty cool about it. Some members can be snarky and rude, but a lot are pretty cool in general. As it turns out, people can think each other's ideas are batshit and still be chill.

That's some of the nice people, who don't let shit bother them and change them from a human being - a fair one - into something repulsive and rude.

I enjoy chatting with those people. I'm glad I have friends like that across the internet.

 

[TheMadHatter]

Might be someone else then.

I hope so, because than my friend left something out

You seem hung up on this strawman.

Damn, I guess I should throw him back into the corn field

So then what's the issue? He can love the one he's with even as he loves another, no?

Just saying he should pick one or none. Because its becoming a hassle.

You get upset a lot, eh?

Yeah, but not over this silly shit. When I get upset, its because I didn't get my meds. But I never get angry over couple fighting, especially if its for FFVII. Its a waste of my time, I don't care who he loves...nah, I do, just not enough to pick a side.

And yet you think Penis is disgusting.

What can I say? I'm a dirty person

I think my point with that was that there wasn't sudden magical love and total understanding on both sides: the game actually had to develop the relationship so that it made sense.

Oh, got ya

That's not what Shrody's words and her 'incactive' tag indicated.​

She herself left because she didn't like the fact that they made a "news section" to respond to SoS's essay.

 

[Raquelborn]

For me it's not, actually. I can see her wondering things aloud while lying in bed, but to make a special trip into his room, ensure he's asleep, then say things to him without intending him to hear? Why go to all that trouble if you don't intend to have a conversation with him?

It's only 'all that trouble' if you think 'after making sure Cloud was asleep' took her a long time or was a really complicated task. It takes hardly any effort to wonder into another's room which is probably only a few metres away and then simply check by both listening and watching if someone is actually asleep. A minute tops.

We can see Tifa was anxious about how things were going between them so if she's motivated to talk out loud (I reckon a part of her wanted him to hear anyway) then she was motivated for the same reason to walk into his room. It was all anxiety. Am I the only one that's experienced this before?

Ps. I am going to be late for work so I'll reply to any other responses directed at me in a few hours.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

We can see Tifa was anxious about how things were going between them so if she's motivated to talk out loud (I reckon a part of her wanted him to hear anyway) then she was motivated for the same reason to walk into his room. It was all anxiety. Am I the only one that's experienced this before?

Now you're inserting on the scene.

First, as it's been mentioned before (by Ryu at least a dozen times alone) there is nothing to indicate movement in this. She's not walking by, she's not in the bar with the urge to go check on Cloud, the scene is with her already in the room.

The LOGICAL conclusion is not to INSERT HIDDEN SCENE HERE that leads up to that. For crying out loud, it makes no sense to have to superimpose circumstances to get your result.

Simplest logic says she is in the same room and same bed. The easiest way to "wait for someone to be asleep" is to be beside them. I can tell when Robin is asleep if I'm laying with him, but just walking by the bedroom and he has his eyes closed, I'd have to wonder. "You awake?" which--again--we never see. She is simply THERE already.

Now, a not Raq specific question and mini-rant-->

Why are people so resistant to the most basic of relationship norms when it comes to Cloud and Tifa?

They can't possibly be sharing a room, oh no!! There's a cot in Cloud's office and when he's sulky at the bar Tifa tells him to "Go drink in________ room!" (Feel free to insert 'other', 'different', 'your'.) He must sleep there. So what if there's a desk and Fenrir's tire cluttering the space up, it's OBVIOUSLY a bedroom and not anything else. It's why the STRIFE DELIVERY SERVICE phone is in there. I mean, fuck, that's where I'd keep my business line, in my bedroom. It makes sooooo much sense.

Seriously, people? **headdesk**

 

[Lena]

Hey ho, first post *eek*
I did join this forum back in April (I think), eager to post but I was and still am a bit of a wuss lol.

I am sorry that I'll be slightly veering off topic, feel free to ignore me I'm Heaven's Cloud. Yeah "who!?" I've been feeling bad for the last few days, but not 'cos of what I did on the pink side, but because of the things I've said in the past about this forum. So I'm really sorry I've been so big headed and rude, even if you didn't notice I jumped to conclusions. There's always two sides to a story.

I was invited by Drake and Quex to join here, but I'm still a bit forum shy , I just wanted to respond to some of the things said here. Don't worry I'm not here to start trouble, that's the last thing I want.

She herself left because she didn't like the fact that they made a "news section" to respond to SoS's essay.

You're right, I wasn't banned. You can edit your own Custom Title, and I changed it to inactive just so they knew that responding to me would be pointless. I still haven't gone back, except to check pm's and I don't plan to.

I'm still a Clerith but I've never been interested in debating or arguing, it isn't the place for me. I've been tired of some of the hypocritical, childish behaviour happening over there for a while now. It wasn't all the time and there are a lot of nice people on those forums, but this week was the final straw.

After that I don't have quotes, you guys have a lot of pages here it'd take me a while to re-find them.

One or two of you thought I was annoying while arguing my points, for that I say thank you for making me laugh out loud in the middle of my office. Luckily I'm alone at the mo I'm very annoying and will ramble away about anything, anyone who knows me will tell you that. Heh. Sorry I peed you off though

Oh and the one who commented on my English? It's my first and only language, be very very afraid In all seriousness I was tired, and kinda in a hurry when I wrote the last part (I think that bit was an edit *shrug*).

As I said I'm not interested in debating so I'll scarper out of this thread, if I do decide to stay don't worry you wont see me in here. I'll let you get back to it.

Oh btw, the Edward/Tifa watching you sleep comparison, whoever posted that and the piccie stole the next idea I had for my crap videos. I demand you send me a cookie to make up for it, thanks. Make that two

 

[Ryushikaze]

Hey ho, first post *eek*
I did join this forum back in April (I think), eager to post but I was and still am a bit of a wuss lol.

I am sorry that I'll be slightly veering off topic, feel free to ignore me I'm Heaven's Cloud. Yeah "who!?" I've been feeling bad for the last few days, but not 'cos of what I did on the pink side, but because of the things I've said in the past about this forum. So I'm really sorry I've been so big headed and rude, even if you didn't notice I jumped to conclusions. There's always two sides to a story.

And mine is the correct one. I've got it notarized and everything
Seriously, though, hello. Anything horrible you've heard or said about this forum is likely incorrect, except that we do tend to tear into people's arguments here, but that has nothing to do with the LTD, we just decimate stuff as a matter of course.

I was invited by Drake and Quex to join here, but I'm still a bit forum shy , I just wanted to respond to some of the things said here. Don't worry I'm not here to start trouble, that's the last thing I want.

Well, feel free to post anywhere, especially on a subject you feel will be less 'troublesome.'

You're right, I wasn't banned. You can edit your own Custom Title, and I changed it to inactive just so they knew that responding to me would be pointless. I still haven't gone back, except to check pm's and I don't plan to.

So it has explained to me. I don't pay attention to the Pink Forum much, but Shroudy's remark had all the hallmarks of a ban edit.

I'm still a Clerith but I've never been interested in debating or arguing, it isn't the place for me. I've been tired of some of the hypocritical, childish behaviour happening over there for a while now. It wasn't all the time and there are a lot of nice people on those forums, but this week was the final straw.

Out of curiosity, are you a Clerith in that you prefer the pairing, or believe it to be so? In the case of the latter, could you try and explain the logic of how it 'works' in your mind?

After that I don't have quotes, you guys have a lot of pages here it'd take me a while to re-find them.

One or two of you thought I was annoying while arguing my points, for that I say thank you for making me laugh out loud in the middle of my office. Luckily I'm alone at the mo I'm very annoying and will ramble away about anything, anyone who knows me will tell you that. Heh. Sorry I peed you off though

I think those were the folks also of CxA.

Oh and the one who commented on my English? It's my first and only language, be very very afraid In all seriousness I was tired, and kinda in a hurry when I wrote the last part (I think that bit was an edit *shrug*).

As I said I'm not interested in debating so I'll scarper out of this thread, if I do decide to stay don't worry you wont see me in here. I'll let you get back to it.

Awwww, no butt heads...

Oh btw, the Edward/Tifa watching you sleep comparison, whoever posted that and the piccie stole the next idea I had for my crap videos. I demand you send me a cookie to make up for it, thanks. Make that two

No. No cookie for you! Besides, if anyone, Cloud's the stalkery sort.

 

[Splintered]

Now you're inserting on the scene.

First, as it's been mentioned before (by Ryu at least a dozen times alone) there is nothing to indicate movement in this. She's not walking by, she's not in the bar with the urge to go check on Cloud, the scene is with her already in the room.

The LOGICAL conclusion is not to INSERT HIDDEN SCENE HERE that leads up to that. For crying out loud, it makes no sense to have to superimpose circumstances to get your result.

Simplest logic says she is in the same room and same bed. The easiest way to "wait for someone to be asleep" is to be beside them. I can tell when Robin is asleep if I'm laying with him, but just walking by the bedroom and he has his eyes closed, I'd have to wonder. "You awake?" which--again--we never see. She is simply THERE already.

Now, a not Raq specific question and mini-rant-->

Why are people so resistant to the most basic of relationship norms when it comes to Cloud and Tifa?

They can't possibly be sharing a room, oh no!! There's a cot in Cloud's office and when he's sulky at the bar Tifa tells him to "Go drink in________ room!" (Feel free to insert 'other', 'different', 'your'.) He must sleep there. So what if there's a desk and Fenrir's tire cluttering the space up, it's OBVIOUSLY a bedroom and not anything else. It's why the STRIFE DELIVERY SERVICE phone is in there. I mean, fuck, that's where I'd keep my business line, in my bedroom. It makes sooooo much sense.

Seriously, people? **headdesk**

In general, when you see a bed in another room, you assume that people sleep on it. Especially if said couple is going through communication problems.

You have to assume a scene if Tifa doesn't sleep with him. But at the same time you've got to assume a great deal of background if she does, like why exactly there is a bed and why would the creators decide to show it there- what exactly were they trying to explain about the living conditions when adding it. Or when exactly she decided to move out of Marlene's room into Cloud's. Or if they were still sleeping together if they were having problems.

 

[Ryushikaze]

In general, when you see a bed in another room, you assume that people sleep on it. Especially if said couple is going through communication problems.

Does that mean that said couple always sleeps apart? Or would you assume that the additional bed is around because of the communication problems, that it's not standard?

You have to assume a scene if Tifa doesn't sleep with him. But at the same time you've got to assume a great deal of background if she does, like why exactly there is a bed and why would the creators decide to show it there- what exactly were they trying to explain about the living conditions when adding it.

If we're to assume the bed is there to indicate couple problems, than that's further reason to assume that Cloud and Tifa slept together, since the noting of the bed as such would be taken as a sign of trouble, that he's got his own bed now, that things are getting that bad. Not the de facto setup.
You've still got the whole 'where the fuck is a closet, dresser, or anything to show this room as lived in rather than slept in' thing to deal with too.

Or when exactly she decided to move out of Marlene's room into Cloud's. Or if they were still sleeping together if they were having problems.

Why do you assume TIFA moved instead of Marlene? Or that Marlene sleeping with Tifa means Cloud's not involved?
Cloud and Tifa can sleep together with Marlene wanting to sleep with Tifa too, only properly moving out to her room after Barret leaves.

 

[Lena]

So it has explained to me. I don't pay attention to the Pink Forum much, but Shroudy's remark had all the hallmarks of a ban edit.

Honestly I wouldn't know *shrug* and I wont ask. Heh this smiley seems appropriate of my leaving behaviour anyway (heh)

Out of curiosity, are you a Clerith in that you prefer the pairing, or believe it to be so? In the case of the latter, could you try and explain the logic of how it 'works' in your mind?

Ah ah! Nice try

It's kind of a bit if both, but it's leaning more towards that I prefer it. I played the game twice before I inspected FF forums and I always thought it was the intended one *shrug* but not canon (imo neither are).

That's all I'm going to say x100

I think those were the folks also of CxA.

If that's the case, that may explain it. Actually no it doesn't, I'm annoying. Now that's not up for debate

No. No cookie for you! Besides, if anyone, Cloud's the stalkery sort.

What!? No cookie? *sniff* You people are mean *sniff*

Ok I'm definitely leaving you guys to it, I'm way off of topic

Cloud a stalker? Send him my way will you

 

[Splintered]

Does that mean that said couple always sleeps apart? Or would you assume that the additional bed is around because of the communication problems, that it's not standard?

I don't have a solid opinion, but either one makes sense to me. It honestly feels like they were trying to make a point that Cloud was living in his office non stop working. Whether it is his delivery service or trying to find a cure for Denzel.

I do give you that there is no drawer/closet, but looking how bare that room is- he's being painted as a minimalist. We also know that he was living in the church, but I don't see a closet or a drawer there as well. There was a box, but it looks easily portable, and could have easily been taken from the room *shrugs*

Why do you assume TIFA moved instead of Marlene?

I was going to add the suggestion that Marlene moved instead, but I figured that people would understand what I meant and didn't need me to spell that out. The fact remains, they seperated.

Or that Marlene sleeping with Tifa means Cloud's not involved?
Cloud and Tifa can sleep together with Marlene wanting to sleep with Tifa too, only properly moving out to her room after Barret leaves.

Oh man, that would be so awkward given how Cloud is not completely comfortable with Marlene initially.

Also, for anyone who wants to give their two cents but doesn't feel like watching the movie again:

Cloud's office

Marlene's and Denzel's room (for comparison)

Where Cloud lives in the church

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Awesome, thanks for those pictures. They serve to actually illustrate the unlikliness that Cloud's office is a bedroom. For one, the cot only has a sheet and a bare pillow, whereas the bedroom has "bedding" and matching pillowcases. Now even if we assume Cloud's retarded and sleeps in his office do we really assume Tifa's not gonna give him the basic fucking essentials to sleep with? That a single sheet (over what appears to be the cot's vinyl covering and not an undersheet) and no pillowcase is how she'd LET him be? That's a suspension of belief that boggles. Hell, even the floor in his "workshop/office" is different. It's not warm hardwood, but tile. As if he may spill grease or something in there...like when tinkering on Fenrir parts...as if it were an office area...huh...

As for the church..uh, of course it's sparse. He went there to DIE--hardly a place to make homey. A bedroll, a canteen and a lantern are pretty much all he needs. That's pretty much irrelevant to the question at hand.

But again, the stark contrast between the office and bedroom only makes it that much more unlikely it served as a bedroom.

Thanks.

 

[Splintered]

Awesome, thanks for those pictures. They serve to actually illustrate the unlikliness that Cloud's office is a bedroom. For one, the cot only has a sheet and a bare pillow, whereas the bedroom has "bedding" and matching pillowcases. Now even if we assume Cloud's retarded and sleeps in his office do we really assume Tifa's not gonna give him the basic fucking essentials to sleep with? That a single sheet (over what appears to be the cot's vinyl covering and not an undersheet) and no pillowcase is how she'd LET him be? That's a suspension of belief that boggles. Hell, even the floor in his "workshop/office" is different. It's not warm hardwood, but tile. As if he may spill grease or something in there...like when tinkering on Fenrir parts...as if it were an office area...huh...

As for the church..uh, of course it's sparse. He went there to DIE--hardly a place to make homey. A bedroll, a canteen and a lantern are pretty much all he needs. That's pretty much irrelevant to the question at hand.

But again, the stark contrast between the office and bedroom only makes it that much more unlikely it served as a bedroom.

Thanks.

oh hai is that sarkazm, but I did post those less to prove a point and more for people to draw their own conclusions.

From a Tifa standpoint, I know where you come from, she's not the kind of woman who would let him sleep on just a cot. But at the same time I think the creators were really trying for an image here. The Marlene/Denzel room and Cloud office(room?) are shown to be the same time, but even the lighting and colorization is different, and I think it has less to do with "showing an office vs a bedroom" and more to show the difference in how they live their lives.

It's littered with work related items, newspaper clippings, and is both cold and distant, which is meant to be a sharp contrast to how the other bedroom is. If Cloud ever had a room of his own, that is exactly how I would imagine it would be. They're trying to tell a story with just images, the bed included, and they do a good job of doing it too.

I mentioned the church because it reinforces the idea that Cloud only lives with the bare essentials and doesn't want much else. But it does make sense that he would live with less since he's dying, so I concede that it would be impractical to compare the two.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ah ah! Nice try

What? I'm curious.

It's kind of a bit if both, but it's leaning more towards that I prefer it. I played the game twice before I inspected FF forums and I always thought it was the intended one *shrug* but not canon (imo neither are).

That's all I'm going to say x100

What would it take for you to declare either canon?
And on the same subject, what makes you think other FF and RPG Couples are canon/official/together, but not the FF7 pairings?

If that's the case, that may explain it. Actually no it doesn't, I'm annoying. Now that's not up for debate

I deny this claim! Prove it!

What!? No cookie? *sniff* You people are mean *sniff*

If you have a cookie, you'll ruin your appetite for cheesecake.

Cloud a stalker? Send him my way will you

Sorry, he's privately stalking someone now.

I don't have a solid opinion, but either one makes sense to me. It honestly feels like they were trying to make a point that Cloud was living in his office non stop working. Whether it is his delivery service or trying to find a cure for Denzel.

I do give you that there is no drawer/closet, but looking how bare that room is- he's being painted as a minimalist. We also know that he was living in the church, but I don't see a closet or a drawer there as well. There was a box, but it looks easily portable, and could have easily been taken from the room *shrugs*

The church, as Frost mentioned, was where he went for penance/ in expectation of death.

I was going to add the suggestion that Marlene moved instead, but I figured that people would understand what I meant and didn't need me to spell that out. The fact remains, they seperated.

Which is probably how it should have been worded initially.

Oh man, that would be so awkward given how Cloud is not completely comfortable with Marlene initially.

Not really. His awkwardness isn't with Marlene, but with opening up to her. He was perfectly fine with her presence.

 

[Celes Chere]

TNC will open tomorrow

Seriously? I'm pretty shocked.

she seems like a very fair person to talk with.

That's an absolutely hilarious joke. Do you have any more?

Awesome, thanks for those pictures. They serve to actually illustrate the unlikliness that Cloud's office is a bedroom. For one, the cot only has a sheet and a bare pillow, whereas the bedroom has "bedding" and matching pillowcases. Now even if we assume Cloud's retarded and sleeps in his office do we really assume Tifa's not gonna give him the basic fucking essentials to sleep with? That a single sheet (over what appears to be the cot's vinyl covering and not an undersheet) and no pillowcase is how she'd LET him be? That's a suspension of belief that boggles. Hell, even the floor in his "workshop/office" is different. It's not warm hardwood, but tile. As if he may spill grease or something in there...like when tinkering on Fenrir parts...as if it were an office area...huh...

Hm, the bed in his office seems like somewhere he'd sleep if he wanted to use it for a nap, or simply a place to sit. It looks most uncomfortable, compared to the other beds which are fairly large and inviting. It makes perfect sense that Tifa'd say something like "Then go drink in your room". Telling Cloud to back off and go to his own room makes little sense if they aren't together most of the time. <=/

It's littered with work related items, newspaper clippings, and is both cold and distant, which is meant to be a sharp contrast to how the other bedroom is. If Cloud ever had a room of his own, that is exactly how I would imagine it would be. They're trying to tell a story with just images, the bed included, and they do a good job of doing it too.

Though I agree more with FHS, I also think that you make a pretty good point yourself. I think that since Cloud has Geostigma, he'd want to hide that from Tifa... so perhaps he did sleep in his own office.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

It's littered with work related items, newspaper clippings, and is both cold and distant, which is meant to be a sharp contrast to how the other bedroom is. If Cloud ever had a room of his own, that is exactly how I would imagine it would be. They're trying to tell a story with just images, the bed included, and they do a good job of doing it too.

I mentioned the church because it reinforces the idea that Cloud only lives with the bare essentials and doesn't want much else. But it does make sense that he would live with less since he's dying, so I concede that it would be impractical to compare the two.

Same here, Cloud's the guy who doesn't need or want much. That he apparently lives in the church for a while with like, a sleeping bag and a canteen or whatever, shows he doesn't have to have the fluffy pillow and the big dresser, and all those things Marlene and Denzel have. He strikes me as the sort of guy who keeps the important stuff up in his head and is content with carrying that around.

But also to be fair, while the room is sparsely furnished, the idea of it as cold and uninviting may be meant to show it's been abandoned and that Cloud is gone.

Though I agree more with FHS, I also think that you make a pretty good point yourself. I think that since Cloud has Geostigma, he'd want to hide that from Tifa... so perhaps he did sleep in his own office.

Ya know, that never occurred to me. It's a good point though.

 

[Dashell]

I don't think he was ever at the 7th heaven with Geostigma. I thought he left because he got it... or he was out looking for a cure, got it and didn't go back home. At least I was under that impression.

 

[Isabella]

Aren't we specifically told he left when he got geostigma?

 

[aniron]

I don't think he was ever at the 7th heaven with Geostigma. I thought he left because he got it... or he was out looking for a cure, got it and didn't go back home. At least I was under that impression.

I don't think he left right away... He surely had to think before move out and leave his family behind.

 

[Celes Chere]

Yeah, I agree with Ani. I think that he was at 7th Heaven for awhile since he could hide it beneath his sleeve... but assuming that they don't sleep in the same clothing they wear all day long, it'd make sense for him to sleep somewhere else to hide it from Tifa.

 

[Isabella]

So what prompted him to leave?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

So what prompted him to leave?

No clue. Could be he wanted to go look for a cure, or maybe he felt with Denzel infected, Marlene and Tifa had enough to deal with and he didn't want to be a burden.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well the movie and all materials state he left to find a cure first. So yeah

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Same here, Cloud's the guy who doesn't need or want much.

Okay, not to be a complete ass, but where the fuck are you people pulling this from? Cloud in-game demanded money. LOTS of money for his services. Cloud in-game dressed himself up as a SOLDIER because that was what he ASPIRED to be. Cloud in ACC wears a WOLF EMBLEM on EVERYTHING--including his STATE OF THE ART CELL PHONE, drives an expensive (meals for the rest of the persons life at 7th) super fabricated motorbike, carries bad-ass, top of the line swords, and did I mention fucking FENRIR. That can't be overstated. Not want much?!? What Cloud are you people fan-ficcing, because silent guy, sure. Moody guy, sure. Guilt-ridden-fucked-in-the-head guy, yup, I'm with you. Bare-bones essentials guy? NO. Just fucking no.

But also to be fair, while the room is sparsely furnished, the idea of it as cold and uninviting may be meant to show it's been abandoned and that Cloud is gone.

This I can see, and agree with. But it still doesn't represent "bedroom" in my opinion, but more of "Cloud's space" and it's vacant.

 

[Raquelborn]

Not really. His awkwardness isn't with Marlene, but with opening up to her. He was perfectly fine with her presence.

Still, I would have thought it'd specify Marlene slept with both Cloud and Tifa as opposed to just Tifa if that was really the case.

Hm, the bed in his office seems like somewhere he'd sleep if he wanted to use it for a nap, or simply a place to sit. It looks most uncomfortable, compared to the other beds which are fairly large and inviting.

Cloud doesn't seem to be depicted as the type to be into his comforts, he was a soldier for a start so that's why I don't find it hard to believe it could be his permanent bed.

It makes perfect sense that Tifa'd say something like "Then go drink in your room". Telling Cloud to back off and go to his own room makes little sense if they aren't together most of the time. <=/

I haven't looked at it like that before. It's hardly a punishment if that's where he is usually. Although, do they necessarily need to share a bed to be having a lot of time together? But then again if he's often doing deliveries and she's working at the bar in the evenings, then night time probably would be one of the only times they have together.

Though I agree more with FHS, I also think that you make a pretty good point yourself. I think that since Cloud has Geostigma, he'd want to hide that from Tifa... so perhaps he did sleep in his own office.

Especially towards the end of CoT, no matter what you think about the previous sleeping arrangements. Otherwise she would have spotted it.

To be honest I think this is quite a minor topic as sharing a bed isn't a standard for two people to be in a relationship, but all the same I think it's quite interesting. I just wish we'd seen Tifa's bedroom.

EDIT:

Well the movie and all materials state he left to find a cure first. So yeah

I thought the materials state he was looking for a cure and ergo the medical books on his desk, but then he left when he got Geostigma himself. Cloud even says that to Marlene in ACC. Or am I misremembering?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Cloud loves his bling-bling and toys. Fact.