So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Isabella]

The movie wasn't really about seeing his deceased friends again. It was about resolving his guilt and moving on. Not that he couldn't be happy to see them, but I think his smile (which was to himself, for himself) was more about him embracing life, family and friends, guilt-free.

 

[Roger]

The script clearly says that the smile came before he noticed Aerith and Zack standing there. And it's not like he hasn't seen them lately, they've been harrassing him different points in the movie. They're saying goodbye, if you ask me. If anything the continued smile is what closes the book as he basically says he doesn't need them showing up to motivate him anymore.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And again, Cloud first smiles at Tifa after seeing her expression and returning it. There's really no question that he's returning her affection there.

Nevermind, the chuunin genius above me said it best.

 

[Splintered]

The movie wasn't really about seeing his deceased friends again. It was about resolving his guilt and moving on. Not that he couldn't be happy to see them, but I think his smile (which was to himself, for himself) was more about him embracing life, family and friends, guilt-free.

Sometimes, I wonder how people miss that. AC wasn't meant to be a love story, it was meant for Cloud to find himself again. Given the context of that story, leaving his family and meeting Aerith again in a field of flowers makes no sense. It only works if you pretty much throw away everything that the creators were trying to illustrate.


Question though: Where did that script come from. Does somebody just randomly have the original script? ... In English?

 

[Roger]

Sometimes, I wonder how people miss that. AC wasn't meant to be a love story, it was meant for Cloud to find himself again. Given the context of that story, leaving his family and meeting Aerith again in a field of flowers makes no sense. It only works if you pretty much throw away everything that the creators were trying to illustrate.


Question though: Where did that script come from. Does somebody just randomly have the original script? ... In English?

I dunno where that script came from but Reunion Files, which really are randomly in both english and japanese pretty much says the same thing.

 

[TheMadHatter]

I get the 'shy smile' was for Tifa. I already agreed. End.

The movie wasn't really about seeing his deceased friends again. It was about resolving his guilt and moving on. Not that he couldn't be happy to see them, but I think his smile (which was to himself, for himself) was more about him embracing life, family and friends, guilt-free.

I'm not saying it was about his dead friends, I'm just saying that the smile he gave Aerith and Zack means more than just relief.

Because, no matter how much its hated, he did have feelings for Aerith AND Tifa at the same time. I dunno about after she died, because I've only watched AC and I've never read the web novels. But right now, I'm offering up questions, questions that so far have only been answered by a few people here.

 

[Isabella]

The script was included with the special edition of AC. I have it somewhere.

Because, no matter how much its hated, he did have feelings for Aerith AND Tifa at the same time. I dunno about after she died, because I've only watched AC and I've never read the web novels. But right now, I'm offering up questions, questions that so far have only been answered by a few people here.

I'd advise reading the novellas, and playing the game if you haven't.

 

[TheMadHatter]

I wasn't planing on reading the novels, and if you meant FFVII for PS1, too late for me. I played it already.

 

[Isabella]

May I ask why you won't read the novellas? They'll probably answer a lot of your questions, and make your perspective on the compilation better informed.

 

[TheMadHatter]

Yeah, I want to stay neutral and get facts before I read. So that way I know what I'm diving into. Also, I'm very curious to see from both sides. Clerith & Cloti's view.

It'll make reading the web novels better, a little bit fun for me

 

[Splintered]

Yeah, I want to stay neutral and get facts before I read. So that way I know what I'm diving into. Also, I'm very curious to see from both sides. Clerith & Cloti's view.

It'll make reading the web novels better, a little bit fun for me

Neutral means very little until you have an informed opinion.

Offtopic:, I hate having other people's opinions on things I haven't yet read/watched/played, mostly because I feel like it's kind of spoiled/ruined for me. I avoided FF discussion for the longest time because I didn't want to ruin Crisis Core for myself.

EDIT: Hey, 100.

 

[Roger]

What's so great about being neutral if it prevents you from knowing the story at all?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Further, the door to Cloud's office has a WINDOW on it. No privcy blind or nothing That just KILLS any chance it's his permanent sleeping quarters.

Goddammit, Ryu. You realize I'm going to have to edit the article again now?! Damn youuuuuuu!

But good observation, and good point. Now stop making them!

There's no such thing as an unbiased person, even an "unbiased" person has a bias towards neutrality...if that makes sense. :p. But I won't argue, you have your opinion and it's yours to have.

This is a point that many news organizations fail to ever realize. The neutrality bias often undermines the public interest as much as the sensationalism bias.

As a journalist myself, it pisses me off that being objective is misconstrued as letting one side have their say and then letter another have theirs -- without then pointing out which one is right, since the news is often a matter of genuine fact and not a matter of opinion. Reporting the truth doesn't mean sacrificing fairness and balance.


@Everyone: Was there just a debate about Cloud's smile? Fucking hell, and I thought me actually addressing Itadaki Street was too much.

In any case, Cloud's smile is irrelevant to the LTD in my opinion. Yeah, he smiled shyly at Tifa, but that could mean any number of things. I mean, he's got all these people -- kids and adults -- throwing praise at him and Tifa is clearly very impressed with him right there as well. It'd be a little embarassing and make your heart go warm -- especially for somebody who was once a bit of an outcast in his hometown. Things sort of came full-circle for him there.


@Everyone again: By the way, the thing about the orphanage probably came from this:

Rufus: You must want to learn all you can about the stigma. Naturally, for the sake of those orphans you live with. Surely you long to see the smiles return to their faces.

Rufus: I hear there are orphans living with you. Think about it. Don't you want to put smiles back on their faces?

Rufus probably knew about Denzel and figured that Marlene was an orphan too. Which she sort of is, just not in the same way.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Goddammit, Ryu. You realize I'm going to have to edit the article again now?! Damn youuuuuuu!

But good observation, and good point. Now stop making them!

NEVAR!

@Everyone: Was there just a debate about Cloud's smile? Fucking hell, and I thought me actually addressing Itadaki Street was too much.

In any case, Cloud's smile is irrelevant to the LTD in my opinion. Yeah, he smiled shyly at Tifa, but that could mean any number of things. I mean, he's got all these people -- kids and adults -- throwing praise at him and Tifa is clearly very impressed with him right there as well. It'd be a little embarassing and make your heart go warm -- especially for somebody who was once a bit of an outcast in his hometown. Things sort of came full-circle for him there.

Oh, I don't think it has terribly much relevance, but the person who edited the Wiki page before took it out, and it just seemed worth including back in mostly to cut out similar 'WHO WAS HIS SMILE FOR?' nonsense.

@Everyone again: By the way, the thing about the orphanage probably came from this:

-Quotes go here-

Rufus probably knew about Denzel and figured that Marlene was an orphan too. Which she sort of is, just not in the same way.

It's Rufus's comment and wild pre-movie speculation that some people seem not to have realized was incorrect.
Just like some people still insist Barret is part of the 7th Heaven crew despite specifically distancing himself from it and the creators doing the same.

Oh, other minor note- It is not specifically Tifa's affection value which affects the Highwind scene, but a hidden variable attached only to Tifa which affects it, largely affected by battle variable, but also influenced by the AV, as far as I can determine, in any case.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Ok, I'm not saying Tifa runs a frikkin' orphanage, but even ACC's official site states she cares for Marlene and Midgar's orphans. Plural. ORPHANS. Linkage: http://na.square-enix.com/ff7acc/ Under her character profile.

Also, I'm pretty sure I read elsewhere that Seventh was haven for orphans. I'll dig it up if I can. It was awhile ago, and not part of wild speculation.

Also, Marlene IS an orphan. Dyne and Eleanor are dead. Just saying... Barret adopting her does not negate this fact.

And Cloud is smiling at ME, for Fuck's sake. **glower** I've watched that movie a dozen times and EVERY time he smiles AT ME.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Caring for orphans Does Not an orphanage make.

Plus, the website says Cloud 'prefers living alone', which is quite false.

In short, Marketing can be trusted as far as it can be thrown.

 

[Isabella]

Neutral means very little until you have an informed opinion.

Precisely. You can't really classify yourself as anything unless you're familiar with the material being discussed.

Reporting the truth doesn't mean sacrificing fairness and balance.

WORD. Now please tell me you don't work for Fox News.

Was there just a debate about Cloud's smile? Fucking hell, and I thought me actually addressing Itadaki Street was too much.

People here will go round and round for pages on the most meaningless things. Just try asking someone if Cloud cried when Aerith died.

 

[Smaddy]

Doesn't anyone think Cloud is just smiling in general? He's surrounded by his friends and the closest thing you could call a family, and survived a pretty horrible attack... he might just be happy in general. I never even considered that his smile was "for" anyone in particular.

And likewise for the "did he cry when Aeris died" part. What the heck relevance does that have on anything, in terms of did he love her or not?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Caring for orphans Does Not an orphanage make.

Plus, the website says Cloud 'prefers living alone', which is quite false.

In short, Marketing can be trusted as far as it can be thrown.

And I'm pretty sure I stated specifically: "I'm not saying Tifa's running a frikkin' orphanage" but I can see the confusion.

And Cloud does prefer living alone. He exiled himself in his misery. Preference doesn't mean happiness or even enjoyment, as I'm sure you know. Cloud very much prefers to suffer alone.

Official site is still official. It's not quite the same as a NA advert without SE/creator involvement. I agree that marketing is not to be taken as evidence or used as a platform in an argument, but discounting it completely is also unwise.

Not every person in the fandom is as well versed in it as those of us with no lives some. So, a quote stating that Tifa cares for Midgar's orphans, coupled with an in-movie confirmation by Rufus, and one can easily, and with a fair amount of logic--even if it is mistaken--think she runs some sort of orphan care camp.

So, I'm simply pointing out that although incorrect, the idea/theory isn't completely without a logical base.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

WORD. Now please tell me you don't work for Fox News.

I said "reporting the truth," so no. XD

People here will go round and round for pages on the most meaningless things. Just try asking someone if Cloud cried when Aerith died.

I've seen. I won't go into that minefield, although that's another one I see as irrelevant.

So, I'm simply pointing out that although incorrect, the idea/theory isn't completely without a logical base.

Agreed.

 

[TheMadHatter]

What's so great about being neutral if it prevents you from knowing the story at all?

You aren't a crazy ass shipper who thinks that their couple is canon and you don't get into heated debates over meaningless shit for some game couple that will be revealed in a few years. Plus, you don't have to come out of the closet to a Clorith/Cloti friend and say "I'm Clorith/Cloti. Do you still like me enough?"

Now I know most of you will say "but we still like ya no matter what side you pick!" that's impossible. You will still feel weird towards that person and will get angry if they say "Well, CloudxTifa/Aerith is canon." that in turn will start a ugly fight and will never end between the two, tearing them apart and ruining their friendship.

So you ask what is so great about being Neutral? You have friends on both sides and you don't feel weird toward any of them, nor do they to you.
So that's what so great about it, and the fact that I won't become a rabid.

Neutral means very little until you have an informed opinion.​

That doesn't sense. Neutrals are what keeps the two sides from crashing into each other and burning and ruining everything because they can't think clearly enough to realize they are being biased and redundant about something as trivial as "Canon Couples" in FFVII."

\start angry tone
Shippers and people who honestly believe a couple who has equl facts and prove, mean very little. /end angry tone.

Precisely. You can't really classify yourself as anything unless you're familiar with the material being discussed.

I am too familiar with the material being discussed. I don't consider the web novels canon or the Ultimajbdfbfads. I think the game {first FFVII game} is all I need, But I will still gladly welcome the facts and views from both sides and their take on the information they received from a rip-off product.

And Cloud is smiling at ME, for Fuck's sake. **glower** I've watched that movie a dozen times and EVERY time he smiles AT ME.

WHAT?! That bitch is cheating on me! He was looking at me, not you!
-stabs you-

Caring for orphans Does Not an orphanage make.

What?

Ryushikaze wrote: Further, the door to Cloud's office has a WINDOW on it. No privcy blind or nothing That just KILLS any chance it's his permanent sleeping quarters.​

Its just a damn window on a door. It could be both a office and a room. My office is my room and I don't share it with anyone. Plus, my room door has a window on it. Pretty freaking big too

 

[Isabella]

I don't consider the web novels canon

Do you consider AC/C canon? And why or why not?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

You aren't a crazy ass shipper who thinks that their couple is canon and you don't get into heated debates over meaningless shit for some game couple that will be revealed in a few years. Plus, you don't have to come out of the closet to a Clorith/Cloti friend and say "I'm Clorith/Cloti. Do you still like me enough?"

Now I know most of you will say "but we still like ya no matter what side you pick!" that's impossible. You will still feel weird towards that person and will get angry if they say "Well, CloudxTifa/Aerith is canon." that in turn will start a ugly fight and will never end between the two, tearing them apart and ruining their friendship.

Yeah, that'd probably happen if you were Tana or some crap like that. I have several online friends who ship Cloud/Aerith and I didn't even know because (and please listen to this crazy thought)

we
share
interests
outside
final fantasy.

Just sayin'.
Also because I'm not trying to be mean, promise.

 

[Makoeyes987]

So you ask what is so great about being Neutral? You have friends on both sides and you don't feel weird toward any of them, nor do they to you.
So that's what so great about it, and the fact that I won't become a rabid.

You can have all of that and still see the story for what it is. Nothing rabid about seeing the plot for where it goes.

That doesn't sense. Neutrals are what keeps the two sides from crashing into each other and burning and ruining everything because they can't think clearly enough to realize they are being biased and redundant about something as trivial as "Canon Couples" in FFVII."

What? No offense, but I have no idea what fandom you're apart of. Way to go at being melodramatic over the LT.

\start angry tone
Shippers and people who honestly believe a couple who has equl facts and prove, mean very little. /end angry tone.

The fact you think each side has equal facts demolishes any claims to neutrality you claim to have. Especially when you say things like the novels aren't canon, when they're cited numerous in the Ultimanias and creator commentary of the Compilation. One of the most damning comments on the LT was from Nojima regarding Case of Tifa.

I am too familiar with the material being discussed. I don't consider the web novels canon or the Ultimajbdfbfads. I think the game {first FFVII game} is all I need, But I will still gladly welcome the facts and views from both sides and their take on the information they received from a rip-off product.

Then you seriously don't know what you're talking about. The novels are referenced numerous times in the movie. The creators WROTE the novels. What the heck makes you think they aren't canon?

 

[Ryushikaze]

\start angry tone
Shippers and people who honestly believe a couple who has equl facts and prove, mean very little. /end angry tone.

Equal facts and proof, huh?

I am too familiar with the material being discussed. I don't consider the web novels canon or the Ultimajbdfbfads.

It's not what you consider canon. It's what the makers or owners consider canon.
OtWtaS and the Ultimanias are ALL canon.

I think the game {first FFVII game} is all I need, But I will still gladly welcome the facts and views from both sides and their take on the information they received from a rip-off product.

If you don't want to count valid materials as valid, then your opinion is not as valid as those who are taking said materials into consideration.

Its just a damn window on a door. It could be both a office and a room. My office is my room and I don't share it with anyone. Plus, my room door has a window on it. Pretty freaking big too

Is it frosted glass, or completely transparent? Does it also have an air vent on it?
Does your room also lack a closet, dresser, or anything someone using a room as a room for nigh on two years would need?