So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[The Twilight Mexican]

Seriously though, I'm just tired of hearing people argue this Cloti/Cleris thing after for 10+ years. So tired. I went to the lifestream.net to read news and updates, and instead I got opinion fobbed off as fact. The comments were filled up, so I expressed my annoyance here. End of story.

Just out of curiosity, do you feel the article was reasoned well enough, or do you see room for improvement? If so, can you point to specific examples? I'm always interested in improving an article if possible.

Now then, since people have expressed interest the viability of New Criticism in relation to canon and fandom, I'd like to share this lecture outline I read a while back. I think it makes a very compelling argument on pages 14-16. Because sharing ideas is what this is all about, right?

http://web.mit.edu/comm-forum/mit5/papers/Chaney_Liebler_MIT5.pdf

"The romantic ideal of one lone author creating and having complete interpretive control over his/her own work has been rendered obsolete, if it ever truly existed in the first place. The idea of a closed canon assumes a piece of work is created in a vacuum, excluding issues of public domain, ghostwriters, corporations being able to revive pop culture franchise, the Internet, and of course, fans. With this in mind, pop culture canon is never truly closed; the door is always cracked open. McKee states that:

“canon is never absolute. Its definition is achieved by consensus within various groups, but it is never stable. It is always open to challenge, is different for different groups – and can, of course, change over time. And it is the fans, finally, who make those decisions. It is they who are ultimately the powerful ones."

Now this is absolutely fascinating. Thanks for this.

I've seen little that addresses the idea of canon vs. fanon in a scholarly sense, and this is the only article I've seen to give quite so much attention to the idea of "realness" where the topic is concerned.

In any case, I have to disagree with the notion that "authorial intent and extratextual evidence as canon" is obsolete. It's not so much obsolete as it is a different method of approach that just happens to be older -- and not as enriching.

Despite that, though, there's an unspoken agreement between everyone in a debate like this to defer to that very approach. That's really the only fair way to go about the debate -- and certainly the only way to win, given all the interpretations that would have been taken away from the original work.

There's little point debating whether Character A was in love with Character B or Character C when everyone might have a different notion of what Character A was capable of feeling at a given point in time -- or when different members of the audience actually received different scenes involving those characters because of choices they made previously. That's the main reason why the Gold Saucer date and the Highwind scene were left out of these debates for so many years by everyone on both sides -- the canon versions were uncertain.

If you look back at the history of Final Fantasy discussions, particularly where FFVII is concerned, the goal of each debate, analysis, what-have-you was to make a determination about what the author(s) intended -- what is "real" in the official reality? This approach has been in place among the fandom since before Ultimanias even existed.

They just obviously made that process much easier to comediate.

So while I agree with your sentiments, and find the arguments made within the article to which you linked to be the more attractive, I still feel that where the comediated reality is accepted to be authorial intent and extratextual evidence, that's what you should be discussing if you're interested in participating.

In other words, "when in Rome."

After all, Coordinated Management of Meaning allows for that to be the consensus, comediated reality as legitimately as it allows for something outside the canon to be, does it not? Just because the opportunity to think outside the box is there, so to speak, it doesn't mean everyone has to choose to or that they've not excercised the ability to if they all decide that they like it inside the box.

"You can lead a horse to water," but -- since I'm full of idioms at the moment -- "call a spade a spade." In fan communities, you pretty much have to go in with the acceptance that you will be discussing the official reality. This has been the default for quite some time.

If you're not interested in discussing that, you may well have to forego discussion about what passes for "reality" within the fictional work. At least in that particular community.

Though I can't imagine most being opposed to a thread that asks questions like, "Ignoring canon, what was your interpretation of [fill in the blank]?"


EDIT: Personally, I find lentils on lent's contributions to the thread to be valuable. I might disagree with his/her conclusions, but the process of getting to that disagreement is nonetheless pleasant to the intellectual palate.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Multiple people here had different (and at times passionate) ideas to share regarding authorial intent in relation to fandom/canon, so I thought I could make peace by contributing an interesting text on the subject, emphasizing that I wanted to henceforth share ideas rather than quarrel. It was my intention to clear the air by channeling any lingering animosity into something positive, in this case the discussion of a common interest (theory and criticism). You insulted me when you mocked this effort by saying that you "don't give a shit about sharing ideas" that are "contrary"' to your own views (of authorship), and essentially told me to get lost. It's in plain English for everyone to see. Look, I understand that under normal circumstances it would be strange for me to share that lecture outline in a thread like this one, I get that. But in this in case people had expressed strong feelings on the subject, and it was therefore relevant.

This is a debate thread. Not a "sharing and caring" thread. How many times must members express they want to discuss the facts according to the work itself and its authors? Again, good job playing the victim and derailing this topic to make yourself some martyred victim. The threads premise was already established and you keep trying to derail it to go off on some New Criticism tangent.

Personally I think those here who showed an interest in theoretical questions of authorship will be appalled by your outright hostility and coarse disposition toward certain ideas simply because they are different from your own. You are the administrator of a forum, and a forum by defintion is where people share ideas from different points of view in a civil manner.

Wow. I guess you missed all the other members here telling you that your shit's entirely irrelevant. Especially when you come prancing in here on your high horse decrying us for having our own factual debate in peace. Again. Great job shifting the blame. You're so cool! No one's interested in ideas that are OFF TOPIC and irrelevant.

"I LIEK CHEESE!!" is a wonderful idea to share, but has fuck all to do with the debate here.

I admit my initial post was a bit outspoken, and I was expecting a somewhat of a backlash (after all, I was asking for it) but I never directed hostility at anyone personally, which till now I've put up with. At first I was a good sport about my pillorying, throwing in little jokes about it and whatnot (after all, I was asking for it, and taking turns dunking bozo made you all closer as a community). But now I've long since borne more than my fair share of the ridicule, and now that I've made a serious effort to contribute something postive and perhaps enlightening to this discussion only to have it thrown back in my face, yes, I find it a bit outrageous. Can you blame me? Of course you can.

Good job stating the obvious. You didn't direct anything at anyone personally, just EVERYBODY in the thread and who debates the LTD. And you completely ignored the fact the article on the front page was factual and not some guy's opinion. Way to go at devaluing and misrepresenting the hard work there.

Again, if you want to contribute to the discussion, let's discuss the facts. That's what we're looking at and those are the terms. Don't know why you can't get on board with that.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

This is a debate thread. Not a "sharing and caring" thread.

Ooh, ooh, can we make one of those Mako?!? I want a caring and sharing thread!!! **eager face**

 

[Fighter]

@lentils on lent:

I think we'd rather see something specific than this pointless demagogy. Like what specifically is "opinion" and not "fact"? Or say should we for example indulge such people whose "opinion" it is that Harry loves Hermione in Harry Potter even though the author says "no"?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I feel like I'm back in the Harry Potter fandom listening to MB argue that just because JK Rowling wrote her characters doesn't mean she knows what's best for them, the non-canonocity of the epilogue, and general unhappiness with ending pairs (for Harry/Hermine fans and Harry/Luna fans alike).

But really, even as a Harry/Luna fan I know

Spoiler

a)Harry liked Ginny and b) he chose to marry her and have two kids

and nothing I say about how sweet I feel Harry/Luna is changes the canon of the book. Likewise, she mentions what everyone is doing after the book in interviews and there's a good chunk of fans who simply reject them because they 'aren't in the book', which is a crock to be quite honest. If JK tells people how she views the people in the books at the end, isn't that a wee bit more important than the views of a BNF H/Hr fan?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Then my work here is done. I must return to my home planet now.

Also, it was never my intention to outright reject the notion of canon. Even the New Critics and the lecture I shared don't discount authorial intention, they merely point out the limitations of that model and argue that it shouldn't be absolute. Anyway, I'll just leave it by saying that unresolved ambiguities are an okay and even good thing. Ambiguities in fiction have artistic merit and are not necessarily "problems" to be "solved" as they are in science and other disiplines concerned with real life -- although many here may be convinced that these ambiguities are not such, that the answer is in fact irrefutably there (albeit heavily coded and staggered across multiple texts and supplementary materials).

And that is an point of view different from the norm that will hopefully be a nice refresher from the eternal flamewar of cloti vs. cleris.

Also: how does an educated strawman work?

No one is saying that there aren't portions of FFVII that are ambiguous. In fact, ALL of Disc one is INTENTIONALLY ambiguous. It's the mentality that there are "no answers" that we take issue with, or the opinion that the LTD is all up to interpretation, because it is very clearly not.

This does not hold true for all forms of literature or literary arguments, but it is the case here.

And I agree with Tres. Your responses are well articulated and intriguing, but they don't really address the issues of canon that is the thread's main discussion--despite the wild veers it tends to take.

And an educated strawman doesn't work. Which was the point. It's a lot of $50 words and bluster that sound intelligent and important, wrapped around an argument that offers nothing more substantial than any other form of straw argument.

Big words =/= right answers.

Ryu and Isabella could teach Lit. and Lit. Theory respectively, and run circles around even the most "puffed up" debaters, and even they acknowledge in this particular medium, in this particular subject matter, there is a definitive answer.

And since this is the LTD debate thread, and you have yet to voice your opinion on the matter, I'll ask you outright: Who is it you believe Cloud loves?

 

[aniron]

There is also one aspect of LT that have never been discussed before, as far as I remember.

Do you guys think Aerith got over Zack?
Crisis Core made it perfectly clear that she was very much in love with him and waited constantly for his return.
She continued to wear the ribbon he gave her and pink color as a reverence to their promise (he'll come back and she'll wait for him) etc
Then she calls Cloud her "beloved" after a few weeks of knowing the guy (who was not even himself at that time)... Was she really in love with Cloud? Did she stop loving Zack at some point? This is confusing part of the story for me.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Aerith is a fickle whore. She loves whoever falls through the church roof. Duhr.

But no, I don't think she was ever over Zack. Elmyra tells Cloud upon first meeting that she doesn't want him to stay at the house because of Aerith's broken heart. I mean, clearly Aerith had Zack issues. She even mumbles about Cloud being the same class "just like him". I think Crisis Core, and all of its relationship additions set FFVII Aerith in a new light.

 

[Vendel]

No one is saying that there aren't portions of FFVII that are ambiguous. In fact, ALL of Disc one is INTENTIONALLY ambiguous. It's the mentality that there are "no answers" that we take issue with, or the opinion that the LTD is all up to interpretation, because it is very clearly not.

This does not hold true for all forms of literature or literary arguments, but it is the case here.

And I agree with Tres. Your responses are well articulated and intriguing, but they don't really address the issues of canon that is the thread's main discussion--despite the wild veers it tends to take.

And an educated strawman doesn't work. Which was the point. It's a lot of $50 words and bluster that sound intelligent and important, wrapped around an argument that offers nothing more substantial than any other form of straw argument.

Big words =/= right answers.

Ryu and Isabella could teach Lit. and Lit. Theory respectively, and run circles around even the most "puffed up" debaters, and even they acknowledge in this particular medium, in this particular subject matter, there is a definitive answer.

And since this is the LTD debate thread, and you have yet to voice your opinion on the matter, I'll ask you outright: Who is it you believe Cloud loves?

I think we can summon this up as "It's all open for interpretation" or maybe "there is no canon couple".

Like I said. A disillusioned Clerith.

As for Aerith over Zack? The short andswer is No.

A long answer? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[lentils on lent]

A straw man argument is when you take someone else's words and oversimplify/distort them to sound stupid.

I prefer the idea of putting Cloud with Aeris (I smell a new wave of ridicule), but I can't say "who Cloud loves" because it sounds very strange when you put it that way, like he's a fully fleshed out person. He's just as much an extension of the player just as he is his own character. The interactive relationship mechanics of the game only compound this. Most of the characterizions in FF7 are really flat, so much that you end up imagining much of the characters' personalities. Something that a lot of people don't realize is just how much of the "story" in older RPGs is told through music, visuals, and gameplay. It sounds funny, but if you read the script on it's own you suddenly realize how dull and pedestrian it is.

Why do I like Cloud paired Aeris? It makes for a more tragic plot, for one. But mostly, I guess it's because the first time I played the game I was swept up in the narrative during which they spend a lot of time alone together in the beginning. Before Cloud fell through the roof I thought the whole game would be bomb reactor, rinse, repeat. This was a real intimate series of scenes, a break from the battles... and that made a big impression on me. The unlikely coincidences that bring them together, the intimate scene at the house, the scene in the playground, the screwball comedy in wall market. Like I said, it made a big impression on me. But this is a preference most of us decided on when we were twelve; is it really something worth justifying? It feels like we're debating vanilla versus chocolate or something. There are more interesting things to talk about.

By the way, I don't care about the compilation because it has zero appeal to me. Just a bunch of ugly nonsense without the imagination and charm of the original.

 

[paoo]

But this is a preference most of us decided on when we were twelve; is it really something worth justifying? It feels like we're debating vanilla versus chocolate or something. There are more interesting things to talk about.

What are you even doing here then?

EDIT: Anyway, I don't have anything against you just because you like CloudxAerith more. I even do so myself sometimes, but I still consider CloudxTifa canon.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

A straw man argument is when you take someone else's words and oversimplify/distort them to sound stupid.

I prefer the idea of putting Cloud with Aeris (I smell a new wave of ridicule), but I can't say "who Cloud loves" because it sounds very strange when you put it that way, like he's a fully fleshed out person. He's just as much an extension of the player just as he is his own character. The interactive relationship mechanics of the game only compound this. Most of the characterizions in FF7 are really flat, so much that you end up imagining much of the characters' personalities. Something that a lot of people don't realize is just how much of the "story" in older RPGs is told through music, visuals, and gameplay. It sounds funny, but if you read the script on it's own you suddenly realize how dull and pedestrian it is.

Why do I like Cloud paired Aeris? It makes for a more tragic plot, for one. But mostly, I guess it's because the first time I played the game I was swept up in the narrative during which they spend a lot of time alone together in the beginning. Before Cloud fell through the roof I thought the whole game would be bomb reactor, rinse, repeat. This was a real intimate series of scenes, a break from the battles... and that made a big impression on me. The unlikely coincidences that bring them together, the intimate scene at the house, the scene in the playground, the screwball comedy in wall market. Like I said, it made a big impression on me. But this is a preference most of us decided on when we were twelve; is it really something worth justifying? It feels like we're debating vanilla versus chocolate or something. There are more interesting things to talk about.

By the way, I don't care about the compilation because it has zero appeal to me. Just a bunch of ugly nonsense without the imagination and charm of the original.

So I AM sitting a listening to MB talk about how JK doesn't know Harry as well as she thinks and how he would be much more compatible with Hermione than Ginny. Who woulda guessed.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

A straw man argument is when you take someone else's words and oversimplify/distort them to sound stupid.

No. That is not what a strawman argument is. Strawman arguments are simply an illusion of refute or rebuttal by substitution of the actual argument with something similar but not of the same merit/strength, while simultaneously never really refuting the original argument. THAT is a strawman.

I prefer the idea of putting Cloud with Aeris

Color me shocked.

but I can't say "who Cloud loves" because it sounds very strange when you put it that way, like he's a fully fleshed out person.

He's a fictional character that we have full disclosed knowledge about. Yes, you can form an opinion based on that.

He's just as much an extension of the player just as he is his own character.

Bzzt. That ends in the Lifestream. The player has the illusion of control, but the overall narrative remains unchanged no matter WHAT decisions you make throughout.

Why do I like Cloud paired Aeris? It makes for a more tragic plot, for one. But mostly, I guess it's because the first time I played the game I was swept up in the narrative during which they spend a lot of time alone together in the beginning. Before Cloud fell through the roof I thought the whole game would be bomb reactor, rinse, repeat. This was a real intimate series of scenes, a break from the battles... and that made a big impression on me. The unlikely coincidences that bring them together, the intimate scene at the house, the scene in the playground, the screwball comedy in wall market. Like I said, it made a big impression on me. But this is a preference most of us decided on when we were twelve; is it really something worth justifying? It feels like we're debating vanilla versus chocolate or something. There are more interesting things to talk about.

And yet here you are, in the LTD thread...huh. And absolutely yes, everyone is entitled to preference. That's a given. But no, comparing Tifa and Aerith is NOT the same as comparing vanilla to chocolate. No one here is saying a person can't prefer Clerith or like the flavor of it on their palate more. Nope. I repeat NO ONE. However, preference is not the debate. CANON is. And in that, there is a RIGHT answer that has notta damn thing to do with what you "prefer".

By the way, I don't care about the compilation because it has zero appeal to me. Just a bunch of ugly nonsense without the imagination and charm of the original.

Annnnd right there your arguments lost all merit. This isn't about whether you like something, It's about what IS. There's a big distinction.

 

[Vendel]

A straw man argument is when you take someone else's words and oversimplify/distort them to sound stupid.

How about taking a stupid argument and trying to make it sound intelligent?

I prefer the idea of putting Cloud with Aeris (I smell a new wave of ridicule),

I called it.

but I can't say "who Cloud loves" because it sounds very strange when you put it that way, like he's a fully fleshed out person.

Far be it for the creators to not make Cloud a completely blank slate for you to project your fantasies on. Rather than an actual character with intentions within the story.

He's just as much an extension of the player just as he is his own character.

And that wonderful delusion is destroyed right about the time Cloud gives Sephy the materia of doom and beats the shit out of Aerith.

The interactive relationship mechanics of the game only compound this. Most of the characterizions in FF7 are really flat, so much that you end up imagining much of the characters' personalities. Something that a lot of people don't realize is just how much of the "story" in older RPGs is told through music, visuals, and gameplay. It sounds funny, but if you read the script on it's own you suddenly realize how dull and pedestrian it is.

Your point? The script is not written like a novel thus the characters are blank slates?

Why do I like Cloud paired Aeris? It makes for a more tragic plot, for one.

Yeah...and that is the way SE wanted it. No one is happy in the end. Aerith is dead. Cloud pines after her and Tifa pines after him. Thanks for saving the day hero.

But mostly, I guess it's because the first time I played the game I was swept up in the narrative during which they spend a lot of time alone together in the beginning.

Yes and he spends a lot of time alone with Tifa after he regains his true self. Beforehand also.

Before Cloud fell through the roof I thought the whole game would be bomb reactor, rinse, repeat. This was a real intimate series of scenes, a break from the battles... and that made a big impression on me.

Wow really? For a story with no soul to it as you described above, it sure hit you hard.

The unlikely coincidences that bring them together,

Which mirror Zack/Aerith.

the intimate scene at the house,

Where Cloud is trying to escape her clutches.

the scene in the playground,

Where Cloud ditches her to run after Tifa (also mirrors Zack)

the screwball comedy in wall market.

To save Tifa.

Like I said, it made a big impression on me. But this is a preference most of us decided on when we were twelve; is it really something worth justifying? It feels like we're debating vanilla versus chocolate or something. There are more interesting things to talk about.

Just when I was having fun?

By the way, I don't care about the compilation because it has zero appeal to me. Just a bunch of ugly nonsense without the imagination and charm of the original.

So once again I was right? disillusioned Clerith.

 

[aniron]

I think we can summon this up as "It's all open for interpretation" or maybe "there is no canon couple".

Like I said. A disillusioned Clerith.

As for Aerith over Zack? The short andswer is No.

A long answer? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Then why did she call Cloud her "beloved/desired person"?

And then, Cloud is a symbol of something Aerith should protect.
What could Cloud be a symbol of? If not Zack. But Zack is dead and doesn't need to be protected. Then again, if Sephy threatens to take over the Lifestream where she and Zack still exist... dunno.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Then why did she call Cloud her "beloved/desired person"?

Because he is.

Just because she was never over Zack doesn't mean she harbors no interest in Cloud.

And then, Cloud is a symbol of something Aerith should protect.

LIVING LEGACY would be the simple answer to that.

Cloud is the embodiment of Zack's dreams.

Sometimes people over think and over complicate things. Motivation, especially in terms of character--is almost always based on something fundamental and simple.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I just wanted to mention that imo, creator intent is very important to anything. Yeah, you can prefer Tidus/Rikku but at the end of the day, Yuna is the one who gets him. Or even in my Harry Potter example: perhaps you didn't enjoy the ending and you don't like who JK says got together with whom and what job they have and how many children are present, but that doesn't make what she said any less canon. (Though don't get me started on how wizarding is somehow a dominant gene when it clearly shows far more traits of recessivity...)

 

[Fighter]

Like I said, it made a big impression on me. But this is a preference most of us decided on when we were twelve; is it really something worth justifying?

No one is asking you to justify a preference. But no matter how much you like Aerith over Tifa Cloud still ends up confessing mutual feelings with the latter - it's the canon "interpretation" of events, no ambiguity.

By the way, I don't care about the compilation because it has zero appeal to me. Just a bunch of ugly nonsense without the imagination and charm of the original.

No one is asking you to like it. But it exists and it's canon, good and bad.

 

[paoo]

Does everything have to be a hyper aggressive argument with you people? I let my guard down and entrust my personal thoughts and reflections as a show of reconciliation and good faith, and then... and then...

Welcome to debates on forums.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Does everything have to be a hyper aggressive argument with you people? I let my guard down and entrust my personal thoughts and reflections as a show of reconciliation and good faith, and then... and then...

Bwuah...? You entered a DEBATE forum. On a subject of which there is much heated and vehement discussion--of which is not secret. You said yourself that you EXPECTED it, so playing the victim card now is just, well, dumb. So cut it out. You're not stupid and representing yourself as a blindsided victim is bullshit.

Forget it, this is worse than sitting in the back seat on a road trip with a bunch of brats forcing you to play a game of punch-buggy that never ends -- exactly what I came here to complain about.

Sooo... intellectual discourse and debate weren't your intention. you came here to bitch. Thanks for clearing that up. Calling us a bunch of brats isn't really going to help you, as I'm sure you are aware. All us big bullies picking on you... No one is forcing you to be here. NO ONE. Back button out, bb, if you can't take it.

I'm just a "Clerith", as if that were an integral part of my identity or something. You might as well classify me based on what shampoo I use.

Head and Shoulders? It's good shit. And again, no one but you is lumping you into a group. Many people in this thread are NOT shippers. You are not some accosted youth in highschool, kiddo. You came in here of your own volition and you are welcome to stay and debate, or you can scurry on back out. No one's really gonna mind either way.

And let me guess: now we'll get a sentence by sentence breakdown of why this post is stupid and why I'm an idiot, just like clockwork, for ever and ever and ever... no wonder this beast is 300 pages long. It never ends... ever...

IS IT SO HARD TO JUST GET ALONG?

Not line by line, but yes, you make a post in a debate thread and people will RESPOND to it. It's kind of the point.

We get along fine.

But we don't wear kid gloves for anyone.

Take it on the chin or duck and run. Your call.

 

[Splintered]

You guys seem rather angry.

The LTD keeps me up at night, staring at my bathroom mirror whilst crying to myself, punching the wall in shame.

Does everything have to be a hyper aggressive argument with you people?

Wait, did you see your first post? How about your second post? I lol'd.

Anyway, I'm here to put my standard "Hey, I' don't think there's a canon either!" except I absolutely disagree that author's intent has nothing to do with it. I always felt that the author's intent was to leave it ambiguous. I honestly don't see how intent when writing a story means nothing to the canon of a story. If the creator said something it is so, then it's so. :/

 

[lentils on lent]

Looking back on that last post I fucked it all up. I need to get some sleep. I'm not fully lucid. I wasn't angry or feeling victimized in my last post... just flustered... like laughing in spite of myself. Because it's funny you know, in a maddening way. The punch-buggy thing was a bad metaphor... it's more like being tortured by tickling, at the will of my own masochistic urges. I was bitching though, you were right about that, and I'm the one subjecting myself to it, this social experiment of sorts I've put myself through. That's what it is, an experiment created by my own morbid curiosity to see what the next reaction will be, to see if I can somehow win the internet game and say that right thing that will strike a chord of perfect resolution without need for another reply... Jesus Christ, this is stupid, I should have just quit while I was ahead. Lack of sleep has impaired my judgment and dug me deeper in the hole. This internet forum thing, it's like gambling or video games, a crazy addiction.

I doubt any of this makes sense...

No, forget it. It's all wrong...

 

[Eerie]

And I still don't get why Splintered thinks that there's no reply from the creators XD It's like you take each comment from them and colour them with the worst explanation possible, so it ends up like that.

For example, I still don't understand how anything like Cloud and Tifa realizing their mutual feelings at the end of the game or how they belonged together can be miscontructed?

 

[Splintered]

Looking back on that last post I fucked it all up. I need to get some sleep. I'm not fully lucid. I wasn't angry or feeling victimized in my last post... just flustered... like laughing in spite of myself. Because it's funny you know, in a maddening way. The punch-buggy thing was a bad metaphor... it's more like being tortured by tickling, at the will of my own masochistic urges. I was bitching though, you were right about that, and I'm the one subjecting myself to it, this social experiment of sorts I've put myself through. That's what it is, an experiment created by my own morbid curiosity to see what the next reaction will be, to see if I can somehow win the internet game and say that right thing that will strike a chord of perfect resolution without need for another reply... Jesus Christ, this is stupid, I should have just quit while I was ahead. Lack of sleep has impaired my judgment and dug me deeper in the hole. This internet forum thing, it's like gambling or video games, a crazy addiction.

I doubt any of this makes sense...

Sleep it off and come back to your amazing internet psychology experiment in the morning. It'll help you gather your thoughts better.

And I still don't get why Splintered thinks that there's no reply from the creators XD It's like you take each comment from them and colour them with the worst explanation possible, so it ends up like that.

Nomura is my best friend, he told me the truth. We play tennis together on Sundays.

 

[lentils on lent]

Sleep it off and come back to your amazing internet psychology experiment in the morning. It'll help you gather your thoughts better

No, I think you ended things on a good note. Though it's not really an experiment per se, that was just a figure of speech describing the addiction of my masochistic curiosity, hah