So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Ryushikaze]

So, can I ask why you have deleted the majority of your posts, lentil?

And no one is saying Author intent is the be all and end all, but what many new criticists seem to do is make the opposite mistake- that it's utterly and completely irrelevant, that they can completely control the story and ignore bits they don't like.

 

[lentils on lent]

I deleted them because shit was waaaaaay out of control. There comes a time when you have to say: "Enough is enough! I'm taking back control of my life and my sanity!"

I couldn't do it, man. This internet forum thing. It just wasn't "me."

On a related note, it's not that I choose to ignore the compilation because I'm in denial about its existence or anything, it's just that, excluding things of worldly consequence, why should I care about something that doesn't interest me?

 

[Roger]

I think that possibility may never have occured to us, even now I'm filled with the urge to question whether you actually really gave it a chance and pretty much shove it's awesomeness down your throat. But I won't do that.

 

[TragicPumpkin]

I think from the standpoint of a "good story" Cloud should have had more feelings for Aerith. It would have made her death more of an impact.

It would seem less sad if Clouds outlook on the situation was "oh crap my acquaintance just got killed. oh well atleast my real woman is the one with the big tits. Go me for not getting my feelings involved."

 

[Makoeyes987]

I think from the standpoint of a "good story" Cloud should have had more feelings for Aerith. It would have made her death more of an impact.

It would seem less sad if Clouds outlook on the situation was "oh crap my acquaintance just got killed. oh well atleast my real woman is the one with the big tits. Go me for not getting my feelings involved."

Yeah, because its not a tragedy unless you're shagging the person you knew who died.

And that's a great oversimplification of his current relationship with Tifa and how Cloud felt. Wow..

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I think from the standpoint of a "good story" Cloud should have had more feelings for Aerith. It would have made her death more of an impact.

It would seem less sad if Clouds outlook on the situation was "oh crap my acquaintance just got killed. oh well atleast my real woman is the one with the big tits. Go me for not getting my feelings involved."

So it's a good thing he didn't have that outlook when she died, otherwise he would have looked like a douche. Aerith's death obviously had a big impact on Cloud and did make him feel very sad. But at the same time, he didn't need to be in love with a woman to feel like he had failed at being her bodyguard and been unable to help her when she needed it most. Same with Zack, and we know he didn't need to be in love with him to make his death any less upsetting and tragic to Cloud.

 

[Roger]

If you want tragedy then look at it this way, Aeris died before ever meeting the real Cloud, she had feelings for Zack, she had feelings for Cloud, but Cloud displayed Zack's mannerish and characteristics. Instead of indulging in this illusion of her long gone first love, she expressed a desire to meet the real Cloud. But it was not to be as Sephiroth killed her.

 

[TragicPumpkin]

So it's a good thing he didn't have that outlook when she died, otherwise he would have looked like a douche. Aerith's death obviously had a big impact on Cloud and did make him feel very sad. But at the same time, he didn't need to be in love with a woman to feel like he had failed at being her bodyguard and been unable to help her when she needed it most. Same with Zack, and we know he didn't need to be in love with him to make his death any less upsetting and tragic to Cloud.

That is so true.

 

[aniron]

The fact that Cloud wasn't in love with Aerith doesn't make her death any less tragic. Not to Cloud himself, nor fans (to me, at least).

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I think from the standpoint of a "good story" Cloud should have had more feelings for Aerith. It would have made her death more of an impact.

And I think a "good story" would be Cloud reviving Aerith, petitioning the mayor of Edge to make polygamy legal, and living the rest of his life in sin with two foxy ladies.

But unfortunately that won't happen. I agree with the sentiment, I do, but "it makes it a better story that way" isn't really a good argument.

 

[Raquelborn]

I think from the standpoint of a "good story" Cloud should have had more feelings for Aerith. It would have made her death more of an impact.

It would seem less sad if Clouds outlook on the situation was "oh crap my acquaintance just got killed. oh well atleast my real woman is the one with the big tits. Go me for not getting my feelings involved."

Except there was that other Square Enix game, Xenogears, in which

Spoiler

the "other" female dies but isn't actually the main character's love interest

. But that didn't stop it being tragic or impacting on the hero.

In other words, SE didn't feel that way there so why here?

 

[TragicPumpkin]

i just dont know anymore. i thought i knew it all before coming to this fourm. but you all make so much sence. thank you all. (except the dicks)

 

[DrakeClawfang]

thank you all. (except the dicks)

You're gonna have to be specific, we host several varieties of dick here.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

You're gonna have to be specific, we host several varieties of dick here.

I, for example, am a spotted dick.

 

[TragicPumpkin]

They know who they are.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I, for example, am a spotted dick.

Mine isn't spotted until I go out in public. Then it usually gets spotted fairly quickly....

 

[Eerie]

What is a good story? Is that a Fairytale@Disney, or is it a story where much more complex feelings are involved, make the characters more real?

Do we have to be in love with someone to feel their loss? Does that mean that Tifa, who cried for Aerith, was in love with her?

FF7's story, as it is, is a good story. There's no need to demean Aerith's importance in Cloud's life, but there's also no need to make it a love story where it's not - it had potential, it is a mere what if, but it never developped like that.

The fact that Cloud didn't hold those kind of feelings for Aerith make it a better story - because then, you stumble on the twist, on how screwed up he is, and who he truly is. This is what makes stories interesting, twists, and events that make you go 'and now, it all makes sense'.

If he had loved Aerith, then what?

His past would hold no importance, meaning we wouldn't have to care as to why he chose to become a Soldier, why did Tifa held such importance in his life, well why Cloud was... Cloud. A big part of the story would have been chunked, IMHO.

To imagine better stories, you can still write fanfics... but the truth is that never a fic is better than the original, and usually, there are reasons for this

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I, for example, am a spotted dick.

I'm a vagina.

 

[Splintered]

Onwards to a debate topic

But at the same time, he didn't need to be in love with a woman to feel like he had failed at being her bodyguard and been unable to help her when she needed it most.

Do you think Cloud's relationship with Aerith is as simple as that? It's pretty obvious that there's a strong bond between Cloud and Aerith that is more than the sum of her being killed and him not doing anything about it. They've got a pretty powerful and emotional bond, though it is mostly otherwise unnamed in the compilation. The majority of us don't think it's love but how many think it's just simple comradery?

i just dont know anymore. i thought i knew it all before coming to this fourm. but you all make so much sence. thank you all. (except the dicks)

Nah, some of the best members on this forum are assholes.

 

[Super Mario]

i just dont know anymore. i thought i knew it all before coming to this fourm. but you all make so much sence. thank you all. (except the dicks)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


Hahaha.

 

[Max Payne]

i just dont know anymore. i thought i knew it all before coming to this fourm. but you all make so much sence. thank you all. (except the dicks)

Better recognize sonny, lest I take you out behind the shed.

 

[Super Mario]

lol he knew it all...until he came to tls....

 

[Tennyo]

You know in Les Misarable the girl that the one younger main guy considers to be "Just a friend" is the one who dies and he goes on to marry the love of his life. Doesn't make the death any less tragic. In fact I found it to be even more so. Poor thing never got her man.

Mine isn't spotted until I go out in public. Then it usually gets spotted fairly quickly....

Mine isn't spotted at all. But when I go out into the sun it sparkles.

Also, shut it Mumble. Let's play nice.

 

[TragicPumpkin]

i am recently re-playing 7 and am try to stear away from the Aerith x Cloud options. and am noticing that there seem to be more forced moments with Aerith. and Tifa dose seem to show some hostility toward Aerith some of the time.

 

[Roger]

Hostility is a big word. She's not going to sit there and let them talk about dates but it's all insecurity on Tifa's part. And complete unawareness of Cloud's feeling for her. You'll see