So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Ryushikaze]

Eww.... Mukki get some shampoo...

It's Xemmy's fault.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Oh, not just CLOUD's light. Mukki is EVERYONE'S light. He's the bloody Kingdom Heart.

And yes, the Kingdom Heart has crabs.

Brilliant.

And now Tifa's got them too.

EDIT: Did I kill the thread? Or has everyone gone elsewhere to "fight the good fight"?

 

[Raquelborn]

Brilliant.

And now Tifa's got them too.

EDIT: Did I kill the thread? Or has everyone gone elsewhere to "fight the good fight"?

I think it's more that it's more interesting to debate the LTD on a forum with more equally balanced sides. That's all.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Brilliant.

And now Tifa's got them too.

No, she used the shampoo.
Everyone else does, though.

I think it's more that it's more interesting to debate the LTD on a forum with more equally balanced sides. That's all.

More outlandish arguments, natch.

 

[Vendel]

More outlandish arguments, natch.

If they get out of hand just shoot them down with this.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I don't know, I'm quite content to avoid the crazy.

 

[Isabella]

People aren't looking to analyze things in this thread. It's a spam thread. I'm about to throw in the towel. But I did throw out a topic a few days back about what Cloud could be a symbol of. I feel it's important to know what a symbol is. A symbol is not, er, a symbol of itself, despite what silliness you may read at other forums. Cloud is not a symbol of Cloud. He represents something else.

sym⋅bol  /ˈsɪmbəl/ noun 1. something used for or regarded as representing something else; a material object representing something, often something immaterial; emblem, token, or sign.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

People aren't looking to analyze things in this thread. It's a spam thread. I'm about to throw in the towel. But I did throw out a topic a few days back about what Cloud could be a symbol of. I feel it's important to know what a symbol is. A symbol is not, er, a symbol of itself, despite what silliness you may read at other forums. Cloud is not a symbol of Cloud. He represents something else.

Did someone actually suggest that Cloud was a symbol of...Cloud? Oh... I feel like I should hug someone and make sure they wear a helmet to school.

In regards to your query, I'd have to say that Cloud isn't so much a symbol of Zack as he is Zack's Living Legacy, and therein he is--to Aerith--a symbol of unfulfilled, yet hopeful, dreams. IMO.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I should never venture into the land of retards. Really. Ryu, you have my admiration for your restraint. Honestly, my reaction to everything I just read over there was "Are you fucking retarded?"... There is no way I could possibly debate there.

 

[Dashell]

I can't believe I had to even type that response, when I re read it... I laughed... hard... XD ... still laughin XD

 

[DrakeClawfang]

What's the fun stuff this time? Comments without links are worthless.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Drake, I couldn't link you all the stupid. It would crash the site.

 

[Sunstrider]

My only issue with LTD debate threads is that everyone assumes that if you argue that Aerith loves Zack, you must mean that she can never love Cloud. Or that saying Cloud/Tifa is canon must by default mean that Aerith was just a good pal of his. It's like people assume that characters can't ever love more than one other character throughout their story.

But, no. I actually don't think the Cleriths are retarded or something. They're actually really fun to chat with and the like. I just tend to typically disagree with them about video game couples.

 

[Dashell]

My only issue with LTD debate threads is that everyone assumes that if you argue that Aerith loves Zack, you must mean that she can never love Cloud. Or that saying Cloud/Tifa is canon must by default mean that Aerith was just a good pal of his. It's like people assume that characters can't ever love more than one other character throughout their story.

Very much this, I believe Cloud did love Aerith even romantically while she was alive. It was the Lifestream Event that changed his mind. And Aerith doesn't need to get over Zack in order to love Cloud IMO.

Good post, I approve.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Explain, Quexi--or anyone--how Cloud loved Aerith romantically when the boy had such a hard-on for revenge and Tifa he didn't even notice Aerith falling all over him. He at least acknowledged--VERY early in the game--that he and Tifa had unresolved issues to deal with. BEFORE the good ole Lifestream dip. (When he's hanging from the catwalk, if anyone needs a quick reference).

I am all for Cloud having affection for Aerith. It's ridiculous to think otherwise, but to call it "romantic love" is stretching their interaction/relationship to its frayed ends.

No, Aerith wasn't over Zack. Yes, Cloud got her panties wet. Yes, she developed a romantic interest. Was it reciprocated? No. Would it have been, given time? Probably not, but that's up to the individual. What ifs are tricky like that.

The frustrating part for me is the blatant avoidance of LOGIC at its most fundamental by the Clerith camp, and I won't sugar coat it. That's fucking retarded. Nice and sweet as some of them may be, personally, their arguments are made of fail with a side of lunacy for garnish.

 

[aniron]

Also, I'd say that during disc1 Cloud wasn't really Zack's living legacy, he was exactly a walking talking symbol of him.

 

[Isabella]

A genuine question, because my memory may be a bit hazy: When do Cloud and Aerith touch each other in ACC that isn't a) in Cloud's head; b) in the Lifestream; or c) in a big old mako fireball? I often see it claimed that they can physically touch each other in the "normal" world, but I honestly can't recall the instance.

 

[aniron]

A genuine question, because my memory may be a bit hazy: When do Cloud and Aerith touch each other in ACC that isn't a) in Cloud's head; b) in the Lifestream; or c) in a big old mako fireball? I often see it claimed that they can physically touch each other in the "normal" world, but I honestly can't recall the instance.

They can't. Aerith is dead.

edit; Or maybe they can. Just never did. After all, we see children giving Aerith flowers at the end of AC/C.

 

[Sunstrider]

Explain, Quexi--or anyone--how Cloud loved Aerith romantically when the boy had such a hard-on for revenge and Tifa he didn't even notice Aerith falling all over him. He at least acknowledged--VERY early in the game--that he and Tifa had unresolved issues to deal with. BEFORE the good ole Lifestream dip. (When he's hanging from the catwalk, if anyone needs a quick reference).

I don't think Cloud was full on in love with her, but I do think that she was special to him. Had she lived, I do think she could've given Tifa a run for her money, but that's just a what if. She didn't live, and blossoming feelings on either part never fully bloomed.

If you want to thrown down and demand that I explain why I think Aerith was more than just another comrade to Cloud, I can. Be warned, though. I now settle LTD debates by challenging my opponents to an old fashioned break dancing competition.

The frustrating part for me is the blatant avoidance of LOGIC at its most fundamental by the Clerith camp, and I won't sugar coat it. That's fucking retarded. Nice and sweet as some of them may be, personally, their arguments are made of fail with a side of lunacy for garnish.

Joking aside though, I don't think anyone's saying you have to sugar coat your opinions. I do believe there's no reason anyone should be a dick to them just because they have weird theories about a video game, though. I dunno. I kind of changed my tune recently. I've had a good time chatting with them. Even about ribbons and such. They're all quickly becoming my koibitos.

 

[Isabella]

@aniron: I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here.
They must be getting the impression from somewhere. Or does it come from the same fantasy realm as the bobbing ribbon?

But you bring up a valid point. Aerith is dead. I don't think she's pining for Cloud or Zack anymore. I don't think her thoughts are that specific, her desires that earthbound. Which is why I don't think Cloud is a symbol for Zack, or for Cloud, or for anything that specific. I think he represents to her everything that was important in life, friends, family, love. Things she should fight to protect, from her vantage point.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

well I know Mira is my Clerith soulmate because we like the same shows and the same pairings.

Except Clerith and Cloti, of course.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

A genuine question, because my memory may be a bit hazy: When do Cloud and Aerith touch each other in ACC that isn't a) in Cloud's head; b) in the Lifestream; or c) in a big old mako fireball? I often see it claimed that they can physically touch each other in the "normal" world, but I honestly can't recall the instance.

I actually had a fanfic where that's a keypoint. Cloud goes to the church on a regular basis to see Aerith, but that's it - she can only appear to him in the church, and he can't actually touch her when she does appear. The CxA forum reaction was actually negative, because "AC made it clear Cloud *can* touch her". I thought "what about in the real world? But okay..."

Anyway, real answer - they don't. At no time outside "whitespace", does Cloud touch Aerith.

But you bring up a valid point. Aerith is dead. I don't think she's pining for Cloud or Zack anymore. I don't think her thoughts are that specific, her desires that earthbound. Which is why I don't think Cloud is a symbol for Zack, or for Cloud, or for anything that specific. I think he represents to her everything that was important in life, friends, family, love. Things she should fight to protect, from her vantage point.

Agreed. Cloud was the leader of their little band of adventurers, it makes sense to have him as a symbol for he party. Hell, SE uses him as a symbol for the FF7 franchise as a whole.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I don't think Cloud was full on in love with her, but I do think that she was special to him. Had she lived, I do think she could've given Tifa a run for her money, but that's just a what if. She didn't live, and blossoming feelings on either part never fully bloomed.

If you want to thrown down and demand that I explain why I think Aerith was more than just another comrade to Cloud, I can. Be warned, though. I now settle LTD debates by challenging my opponents to an old fashioned break dancing competition.

I never questioned Aerith being special to Cloud. He was in charge of protecting her and she was important to everyone in AVALANCHE. Not the issue. I asked for examples or explanation of where/when/how Cloud had romantic love for Aerith.

And bring it. I can toprock with the best b-boys.

Joking aside though, I don't think anyone's saying you have to sugar coat your opinions. I do believe there's no reason anyone should be a dick to them just because they have weird theories about a video game, though. I dunno. I kind of changed my tune recently. I've had a good time chatting with them. Even about ribbons and such. They're all quickly becoming my koibitos.

It is NOT being a dick in pointing out the blatant stupidity of their theories. Chats and and internet friendships aren't relevant in a debate thread. I've had some of my most heated discussion with my closest friends, IRL and via the web. Pulling back or not stating something as being 'wrong' because they are sparkly koibitos isn't something I'm willing to do. But that's just me.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Anyway, real answer - they don't. At no time outside "whitespace", does Cloud touch Aerith.

Bahamut Shin fight.

Just sayin'....

 

[Dashell]

Explain, Quexi--or anyone--how Cloud loved Aerith romantically when the boy had such a hard-on for revenge and Tifa he didn't even notice Aerith falling all over him. He at least acknowledged--VERY early in the game--that he and Tifa had unresolved issues to deal with. BEFORE the good ole Lifestream dip. (When he's hanging from the catwalk, if anyone needs a quick reference).

It really did seem like the game was going in that direction. Maybe it was done to make Aerith's death more tragic, but really there are so many times you can show romantic affection toward Aerith. The simple fact that Aerith says Cloud was her boyfriend says to me that at some point he did show that he was interested in her romantically. If all of their intereations were platonic, the thought shouldn't even enter her mind.

Tifa saw it too, that's why she was jealous. She didn't really have need to be, but she saw it. I'm not saying it was totally true love or anything, but I think it was developing into that.

Plus, Aerith's ribbon fell from her hair. This means that they were desired lovers for one another and

ACK hey I'm kidding

Joking aside though, I don't think anyone's saying you have to sugar coat your opinions. I do believe there's no reason anyone should be a dick to them just because they have weird theories about a video game, though. I dunno. I kind of changed my tune recently. I've had a good time chatting with them. Even about ribbons and such. They're all quickly becoming my koibitos.

I do agree but I think there is more to it than just this. There's been a history of lies and deceit. However I've found the majority of lies to come from one person specifically and the others just hear what they want to believe and repeat it. I won't say who, they know who they are.

But just because of this one liar, I don't think the entire forum should get as much crap as it does. I know I've been frustrated with Clerith arguments, but I attack the arguments, not the person who made them.