So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Fairheartstrife]

Maybe it was done to make Aerith's death more tragic, but really there are so many times you can show romantic affection toward Aerith.

If there are so many surely you can name 3 times.

Hell, Quexi, at this point, I'd settle for one.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Bahamut Shin fight.

Just sayin'....

Didn't everything around Cloud go white, though? And didn't he dive into...well, a fireball?

 

[Dashell]

1. Get the date with Aerith
2. Act like you're jealous or envious when you hear about Zack.
3. Tell Marlene you hope Aerith likes you

 

[aniron]

Cleriths also love to make a great deal of Cloud living in Aerith's church.
Though there were never any romantic undertones to it. Like in case of Vincent visiting the cave where Lucrecia is housed.
And if you just compare how Cloud's feelings for Aerith were portrayed in AC/C to Vincent and Lucrecia, it becomes even more clear that Cloud's feeling are all about sadness and guilt, not love.

 

[Sunstrider]

I never questioned Aerith being special to Cloud. He was in charge of protecting her and she was important to everyone in AVALANCHE. Not the issue. I asked for examples or explanation of where/when/how Cloud had romantic love for Aerith.

And bring it. I can toprock with the best b-boys.

Prepare to get served.

It is NOT being a dick in pointing out the blatant stupidity of their theories. Chats and and internet friendships aren't relevant in a debate thread. I've had some of my most heated discussion with my closest friends, IRL and via the web. Pulling back or not stating something as being 'wrong' because they are sparkly koibitos isn't something I'm willing to do. But that's just me.

Jeebus. It's not like I'm bowing to their will or something. Never said you should ignore or not point out the fallacies in an argument at all. Just saying that people can be really dickish about this sometimes, cleriths and cloti. It's no skin off my back, really. This is the internets, after all. Just an observation.

Besides. I'm totally everyone's koibito. I'm just a slut like that.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Cleriths also love to make a great deal of Cloud living in Aerith's church.
Though there were never any romantic undertones to it. Like in case of Vincent visiting the cave where Lucrecia is housed.

You *do* realize Vincent loved her, right?

 

[aniron]

You *do* realize Vincent loved her, right?

He did?

edit; Of course I do realize that. What I meant to say in my post, is that if Cloud was in love with Aerith their relationship in AC/C would be portrayed similar to Vincent and Lucrecia's in DoC.

 

[Dashell]

Prepare to get served.

Prepare to read the reply "That's not romantic because of X " or "they were just friends" over and over

But I would like to see what you come up with.

He did?

Are you being serious right now?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

lol, yeah. It's mostly implied in FF7, but in DoC I believe it's outright stated Lucrecia loved Vincent, and it's heavily implied he loved her back. Accord to the GameFaqs script, Lucrecia mentions loving Vincent in a data report of some kind, and Hojo says Vincent is "helping his beloved", referring to Lucrecia.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

lol, yeah. It's mostly implied in FF7, but in DoC I believe it's outright stated Lucrecia loved Vincent, and it's heavily implied he loved her back. Accord to the GameFaqs script, Lucrecia mentions loving Vincent in a data report of some kind, and Hojo says Vincent is "helping his beloved", referring to Lucrecia.

if by 'heavily implied' you mean 'angsted about not getting together with her for thirty years', then I'd say you're right.

 

[aniron]

Are you being serious right now?

I'm serious. Let's argue that.

I say that Vincent never loved Lucrecia because he let her be used in a horrifying experiment and that had caused her some great grief.


edit;

if by 'heavily implied' you mean 'angsted about not getting together with her for thirty years', then I'd say you're right.

I think he angsted more about not being able to help her, than not being able to be with her.

 

[Makoeyes987]

....But Vincent tried to stop her. And Lucrecia and Hojo chewed his head off for butting into their affair as "scientists."

He also got shot for it.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

edit;

I think he angsted more about not being able to help her, than not being able to be with her.

If he didn't, he did call her beautiful an excessive amount. That and the whole "the one I loved and respected die and now I'm angsting" thing makes it seem more like he did love her.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

1. Get the date with Aerith
2. Act like you're jealous or envious when you hear about Zack.
3. Tell Marlene you hope Aerith likes you

1. You can also get a date with Yuffie and Barret.
2. Player control.
3. See above.

There are no scenes where Cloud independently shows interest in Aerith. Ever.

And the date, Que? Really? I for sure had higher expectations of you than that. You wanna discuss Cloud's absolute disinterest during the date, too?

 

[Vendel]

EDIT: DAMN YOU FHS!!!

but really there are so many times you can show romantic affection toward Aerith.

Not really. And your three listed examples are all optional.

The simple fact that Aerith says Cloud was her boyfriend says to me that at some point he did show that he was interested in her romantically.

Q have you seen the Cloud Aerith date? Cloud is unaware either girl wants his dick. The Ult points this out specifically.

If all of their intereations were platonic, the thought shouldn't even enter her mind.

Two words. Zack fucking Fair.

Tifa saw it too, that's why she was jealous. She didn't really have need to be, but she saw it. I'm not saying it was totally true love or anything, but I think it was developing into that.

Tifa being insecure does not mean something was actually going on.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You mean ole' Clotis

You won't even allow for the option for Clerith to exist on Disc 1. You gaiz are just so mean

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Prepare to get served.


I do hope whatever you're serving is hot. I'm hungry.

Jeebus. It's not like I'm bowing to their will or something. Never said you should ignore or not point out the fallacies in an argument at all. Just saying that people can be really dickish about this sometimes, cleriths and cloti. It's no skin off my back, really. This is the internets, after all. Just an observation.

Besides. I'm totally everyone's koibito. I'm just a slut like that.

No, you're not, but it is definitely not an uncommon theme with them. They control their own Clerith site with cultish tendencies and TNC has a sign up "I'll behave" checklist that makes me cringe. It's like the odds have to be stacked against logic in order for them to even attempt a debate.

And I like slutty koibitos. They're the best.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

There are no scenes where Cloud independently shows interest in Aerith. Ever.

Well, of course I'm sure others will say it isn't romantic, but there *is* one, sort of.

Aerith: I learned a lot. The elders taught me many things. About the Cetra...And the Promised Land... I'm...... alone... I'm all alone now...
Cloud: But I'm...... we're here for you, right?
Aerith: I know. I know, but... I am the only...... Cetra.
Cloud: Does that mean we can't help?

Back to the Vincent thing, remember the creators mention they envision Vincent as an older, more mature Cloud. Take from that what you will. The key difference is that Vincent spent thirty years brooding when he lost the woman he loved, Cloud spent two.

 

[aniron]

....But Vincent tried to stop her.

Then he should've tried better!

No really, I don't think Vincent is guilty in any way for what had happened to Lucrecia. He tried to make her see the obvious and it was her choice to go on with the experiment, and she paid dearly for it.

If he didn't, he did call her beautiful an excessive amount. That and the whole "the one I loved and respected die and now I'm angsting" thing makes it seem more like he did love her.

I remember he called her beautiful two times in the same monologue.
But yeah... He did love her, that was made pretty much clear.
I just think that it took Vince so long to get over Lucrecia is because of the "sins" he believed he commited.
I can understand if a guy takes his time getting over a woman who actually was his girlfriend or a wife, but in this case I think the whole "guilt issue" did the trick.

 

[Vendel]

Vincent spent thirty years brooding when he lost the woman he loved, Cloud spent two.

Nice try Drake. But you can't slip stuff like this past my rabid Cloti senses.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Nice try Drake. But you can't slip stuff like this past my rabid Cloti senses.

No Vendel, if I were trying to slip something by you, you'd know it by the giant neon flashing CLERITH banner in my sig.

But yeah... He did love her, that was made pretty much clear.
I just think that it took Vince so long to get over Lucrecia is because of the "sins" he believed he commited.
I can understand if a guy takes his time getting over a woman who actually was his girlfriend or a wife, but in this case I think the whole "guilt issue" did the trick.

I apology if I misunderstand, but girlfriend and marital status should not be taken as clear indicators of affection. You can love someone very deeply and not be married to them. And you can be married to someone and be miserable. Just because Vincent and Lucrecia were never officially together, doesn't mean they didn't truly love each other.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Well, of course I'm sure others will say it isn't romantic, but there *is* one, sort of.

Aerith: I learned a lot. The elders taught me many things. About the Cetra...And the Promised Land... I'm...... alone... I'm all alone now...
Cloud: But I'm...... we're here for you, right?
Aerith: I know. I know, but... I am the only...... Cetra.
Cloud: Does that mean we can't help?

Sort of. If you squint through pink glasses, sure.

I'm pretty sure Ryu has already discussed that scene at length, but I can offer up my 2 cents anyway. When I got to that scene, I never saw it as romantic. I saw it as reassurance. "You are not alone" kind of thing. Kind of an "I'm... (encompasses the others) we're here for you." Because she needed to feel a part of something. "Does that mean we can't help?" shows this. It's not about him catching himself and correcting a romantic statement. Cloud's not that guy--at least not yet, in-game. If he wanted to be solely inclusive, he would have.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Oh, when did the creators say they envisioned Vincent as an older, more mature Cloud? I don't think I've seen that.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

The Reunion Files. My old gallery of scans is down, so gimme a minute to dig it up somewhere else.

 

[Vendel]

No Vendel, if I were trying to slip something by you, you'd know it by the giant neon flashing CLERITH banner in my sig.

Well Clerith logic does stick out like a flashing banner to me.

Here let me show you what your statement looked like.

Vincent spent thirty years brooding when he lost the woman he loved, Cloud spent two.