So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[paoo]

Probably because most of us are rapid Clotis here.

 

[Vendel]

No, and don't call me lambkin.

Did I touch a nerve? Show me on the doll where the sheep touched you Ryu.

Zack. We know she was attracted to Cloud because of the Zack in him, and was subconsciously in denial over his death, so yeah.

As for the COLW Line, it is in the past tense, so yeah.

Your rapid response is noted.

 

[Isabella]

Zack. We know she was attracted to Cloud because of the Zack in him, and was subconsciously in denial over his death, so yeah.

About this ... I've seen it argued that calling Aerith in denial or saying she's lying to herself is an insult to her, and she's too honest to lie to herself or whatever. I'm complete thrown by this line of argument. It's human nature to do these things when you're hurting. She's human, is she not? It's in no way an insult to her; in fact, it makes her more endearing, in my opinion.

 

[Strangelove]

I don't think making a compelling character is really the name of the game here.

 

[Eerie]

Maybe if Cloud was going to the rooms of whoever the date mechanism chooses and asking them out I could maybe see it as having a choice in who Cloud's interested in, but he's dragged out, looks miserable in most, and only shows the slightest interest in Tifa. Even then, it's before Cloud is himself.

You know, it's amusing that when you look at the first disc, even though the player decides for Cloud's feelings and actions, it's always Tifa who gets all the romantic attention; from the "beside you, who wouldn't?" line to the date, the girlfriend thing, etc, etc, even though SE wants people to focus on Cloud and Aerith, when it comes to romance, it's always Tifa who's heavily promoted.

I've been wondering if it was because the true Cloud's feelings were mixed up in his insanity, but I guess we'll never have the word on that unless SE spares us a not so ambiguous yet ready to be Clerith quote

 

[Ryushikaze]

Did I touch a nerve? Show me on the doll where the sheep touched you Ryu.

No, you have not touched a nerve, and you really ought to see a shrink about this sheep fetish you have.

Your rapid response is noted.

Except I'm not a shipper, and as such cannot be rapid. I'm just chillin' my way to the conclusion.

About this ... I've seen it argued that calling Aerith in denial or saying she's lying to herself is an insult to her, and she's too honest to lie to herself or whatever. I'm complete thrown by this line of argument. It's human nature to do these things when you're hurting. She's human, is she not? It's in no way an insult to her; in fact, it makes her more endearing, in my opinion.

Remember, these are the people who have assumed that Aerith is to be perfect, so as better to Mary Sue upon. Telling them Aerith is in denial is the same as telling them they're in denial/ not perfect.

I don't think making a compelling character is really the name of the game here.

It is, but the rulebook they were given was for something else entirely. Methinks it was parcheesi.

You know, it's amusing that when you look at the first disc, even though the player decides for Cloud's feelings and actions, it's always Tifa who gets all the romantic attention; from the "beside you, who wouldn't?" line to the date, the girlfriend thing, etc, etc, even though SE wants people to focus on Cloud and Aerith, when it comes to romance, it's always Tifa who's heavily promoted.

Actually, SE wants the player to focus on Aerith, which is slightly different than on 'Cloud and Aerith', but again, it's all for leading up to the end disc left hook.

I've been wondering if it was because the true Cloud's feelings were mixed up in his insanity, but I guess we'll never have the word on that unless SE spares us a not so ambiguous yet ready to be Clerith quote

Cloud's true feelings were present but buried behind his coping psyche so it's entirely possible.

 

[Fighter]

About this ... I've seen it argued that calling Aerith in denial or saying she's lying to herself is an insult to her, and she's too honest to lie to herself or whatever. I'm complete thrown by this line of argument. It's human nature to do these things when you're hurting. She's human, is she not? It's in no way an insult to her; in fact, it makes her more endearing, in my opinion.

Especially considering their adoration of Cloud himself and he's the most flawed and messed up character in the story.

 

[Dashell]

Especially considering their adoration of Cloud himself and he's the most flawed and messed up character in Final Fantasy history.

Fixed

 

[Ⓐaron]

I don't think making a compelling character is really the name of the game here.

No, the name of the game here is "making a Mary Sue perfect character"

 

[Madame Mayor]

Wow, 60 votes so far and only three voted for Aerith. And one of the votes was sort of a joke vote.
Edit: no wait, 61, my bad.

Not completely. Look, I'm even on the Clerith fanlisting from way back when. I don't even use that e-mail anymore, or that website really. XP

http://get-fighted.net/eulogy/list.php

 

[Dashell]

Okay this is creepy, there's a member on CxA that I've never seen before, never seen post or anything but she's been on all day. Her name is cyndi... that's my mom's online alias... lower case first letter and everything

WHAT THE HELL? O_O

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Okay this is creepy, there's a member on CxA that I've never seen before, never seen post or anything but she's been on all day. Her name is cyndi... that's my mom's online alias... lower case first letter and everything

WHAT THE HELL? O_O

Your mother is clearly stalking your trollish behaviors.

 

[CK]

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Zack. Because I do remember that we are blatantly told in one of the 1276468302 Ultimanias that Aerris acts a certain way around Cloud because of Zack.
Where's that quote you crazy people? Back in my days of youth I remembered this shit by heart, but my years are catching up to me now.

 

[Vendel]

About this ... I've seen it argued that calling Aerith in denial or saying she's lying to herself is an insult to her, and she's too honest to lie to herself or whatever. I'm complete thrown by this line of argument. It's human nature to do these things when you're hurting. She's human, is she not? It's in no way an insult to her; in fact, it makes her more endearing, in my opinion.

It had to be done.

Aerith is Pure, Beautiful, Special and Perfect. Tifa? She is the opposite of that.

 

[Dashell]

It's funny because I seem to recall a quote that Nomura says about Aerith .... shit I was just talking about someone with it tonight, lemme find it

about how even though she's an opposite to Sephiroth, she isn't wholly good. She's a balance of dark and light unlike almost any other character in Kingdom Hearts

Not entirely sure where it's from but... Tifa ain't Aerith's opposite, that's for sure
If that topic there wasn't so old I'd reply with that.

 

[Frostwave]

 

[paoo]

It had to be done.

Aerith is Pure, Beautiful, Special and Perfect. Tifa? She is the opposite of that.

Eh... Tifa is described as bright and optimistic. She's not selfish at all. Letting Aerith flirting with Cloud, while she's watching - Of course she would be jealous. She's human, yes. But is she trying to ruin their new relationship? No. And the way Aerith is described here, nah. She cares for others in the first place, but so does Tifa and Aerith can be selfish. And wut? Aerith have also been jealous of Tifa. OHMAGAWD SHE'S NOT PERFECT AFTER ALL?!?!
If Aerith were that kind of "perfect Angel blah shit", I wouldn't like her. She got her flaws, that's what makes her more special and interesting.

 

[Frostwave]

Aerith and Tifa are complete opposites. Aerith represents innocence. Tifa represents the evil wickedness of the world, the sex, lies, and murdering of sweet little babies. Aerith has a pure heart. Tifa's heart is black from all that sex she had.

Aerith tries to cheer people up. Tifa would rather get them down. Because she's depressed, you see? Aerith is beautiful, special, and perfect. Tifa is butt ugly, unremarkable, and has hideous flaws, like boobs and stuff.

Ok? Ok.

 

[Isabella]

Don't forget she heartlessly lies to Cloud for her own selfish gain and causes him great emotional distress. She's also in denial, chasing after Cloud when it's Zack she really wants.

And she has boobs, which is a serious flaw. I hate boobs. They get in the way when I'm working out.

 

[Dashell]

And she has boobs, which is a serious flaw. I hate boobs. They get in the way when I'm working out.

Pics or it didn't happen

 

[Shadowfox]

Aerith is Pure, Beautiful, Special and Perfect. Tifa? She is the opposite of that.

And what's more, it's not because she acts the opposite of pure, beautiful, special and perfect. No. Tifa's opposite simply because it'd be boring to have two pure, beautiful, special and perfect women in FFVII.

 

[Ryushikaze]

And what's more, it's not because she acts the opposite of pure, beautiful, special and perfect. No. Tifa's opposite simply because it'd be boring to have two pure, beautiful, special and perfect women in FFVII.

And that's why FF7 had no, pure, special, or perfect women.
All the ladies are flawed. That's what makes them CHARACTERS.

But I will agree with one concept- the idea that Aerith and Tifa are opposites. Or another way, they mirror each other. Where Aerith dresses demurely, she acts more outrageous. Where Tifa's clothing is more modern, she is more withdrawn personality wise.
Whereas Aerith lives at home and is more worldly wise, Tifa works with a revolutionary group yet is naiive in her own way.

 

[Fighter]

What I don't get is why they think SE would ever write one of their protagonists as this selfish, desperate, weak, slutty, clingy bully in the first place. But then in their fervor to make Aerith look superior in every possible way they really don't stop to think. I don't even think they really like or understand Aerith as a character they just like the idea of what Clerith represents in their view and that's about this emo guy worshiping this Mary Sue princess who melts his defense. It's really about their own romantic fantasy.

 

[I Am Not Me]

I don't even think they really like or understand Aerith as a character they just like the idea of what Clerith represents in their view and that's about this emo guy worshiping this Mary Sue princess who melts his defense. It's really about their own romantic fantasy.

Thank you.

My thoughts exactly.

All the ladies are flawed. That's what makes them CHARACTERS.

Yuffie is the best character then. Cait Sith all the more so if he were a lady.


Oh yeah...

What I don't get is why they think SE would ever write one of their protagonists as this selfish, desperate, weak, slutty, clingy bully in the first place.

I always had this feeling that Tifa was a favorite, by the way she was made. It's just... she's too awesome. She doesn't have anything magical or special about her, but she's still made to be such a great character. It's like...compared to the rest of the AVALANCHE who literally has fantasy attached to their character designs (Aerith the Cetra, Yuffie the Ninja Princess, Cloud the IDK-what-he-is, Barret the man with the gun for an arm, Vincent the weirdo with pointy shoes, Cait Sith the fortune-telling cat thing, Red XIII the red endangered specie, Cid the man with the airships, Rude the bald guy...), we have Tifa, a normal girl from a backwater town, who gained her (only) specialty of martial arts through actual training.

As far as I know she wasn't born with any special abilities, nor was she born into royalty, so she's pretty much representative of the real-world women. Besides the fact that she can kick ass, she's a lot easier to relate to as a character because she doesn't have anything too otherwordly about her. She gets insecure, jealous, panicky, upset, and defeated (yes, she doesn't kick ass entirely). She could pretty much be the real Mary Sue here.

And imo, this makes her one of the best female video game characters ever made.




...or maybe I'm just being biased and giving Tifa too much credit.