So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Alessa Gillespie]

But root beer tastes so good with ice cream.

Does this make Aerith the ice cream?

 

[Ryushikaze]

But root beer tastes so good with ice cream.

So does cheerwine, my good lady.

And there's Cheerwine Ice Cream.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Agreed with Ryu on all counts, but we have to remember that not everyone is going to be familiar with Cheerwine given its regional boundaries. But trust us: Tifa is Cheerwine.

I had no idea what I was starting with the soda analogy.

 

[Dashell]

I had no idea what I was starting with the soda analogy.

What did you learn?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

What did you learn?

That we're all insane.

 

[Dashell]

Someone wants me to use just in game and in movie quotes to prove Cloud loves Tifa... It's been a while since I played the game... so can I ask for help on this one?

 

[Vendel]

Someone wants me to use just in game and in movie quotes to prove Cloud loves Tifa... It's been a while since I played the game... so can I ask for help on this one?

Yeah things like OTWTAS ,the Ultimania's and Reunion Files are just so pesky are they not?

 

[Dashell]

When they go against what you believe in, yes

That WAS what she was asking right? Because she ignored Reunion Files and Ultimania quotes...

 

[Isabella]

So does cheerwine, my good lady.

And there's Cheerwine Ice Cream.

Cheerwine? Fill me in.

Someone wants me to use just in game and in movie quotes to prove Cloud loves Tifa... It's been a while since I played the game... so can I ask for help on this one?

Does this mean no CoT? I don't know how any unbiased person can read Cloud wanting Tifa with him forever in a way that's different from before + blushing + "sorry I didn't consult with you on major decisions affecting our home and family" as college roommates.

 

[Dashell]

Nope, movie and game she said. This is what I have so far:

Well Cloud went off to Soldier to impress her. He says that. When he and Tifa are in the center of his brain, the young Cloud tells Tifa to tell the real Cloud that she was reading newspaper stories trying to find out about him. He says he'll be happy to hear that. Now why would adult Cloud be happy to hear that Tifa was paying attention to him? Cause she picked on him as a kid? I don't think so.

The entire time they're in Cloud's mind, one thing remains constant, and that's Tifa is the main focus. He has memories of her that he calls "tender" or "precious" memories.

Also it's confirmed later on, under the Highwind that they're hearts were calling out to one another. That's how Tifa was able to find Cloud in the lifestream. Pretty special gift there.

Finally, the scene under the highwind ends with Tifa saying, "Words aren't the only way you can show someone what you're thinking..." and in the next scene, we see them sitting very close to each other. I'm not saying they had sex but really what do YOU think they did all night? Bowling? I don't think so.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

What did you learn?

That we're all insane.

No, that I already knew. What I learned is not to mention fluids of any kind around Vendel, or they'll find their way into LTD discussion. And possibly into Aerith and Tifa. Or Cloud. Or Zack.

Someone wants me to use just in game and in movie quotes to prove Cloud loves Tifa... It's been a while since I played the game... so can I ask for help on this one?

Absolutely. You tell them no and point them to the concept of comprehensive analysis.

Interesting that in a discussion on canon someone would approach something called the "Compilation of Final Fantasy VII" and insist on taking a non-comprehensive approach. Slicing off parts that hurt their preferred conclusion telegraphs their intellectually dishonest intent from the start.

Don't waste your time.

 

[Isabella]

How can you count the movie and not the prologue to the movie?

 

[Dashell]

No idea, but hey I'm up for the challenge

Don't waste your time.

I didn't really go into HUGE detail or anything. In fact I said if you have to throw out what the creators said to prove your ship, your ship is in trouble.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Cheerwine? Fill me in.

Only the sexiest soda this side of creation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheerwine

 

[Isabella]

But this isn't just throwing out creator statements. Ignoring OTWTAS is like analyzing Star Wars and Return of the Jedi while tossing out Empire Strikes Back. I consider it essential to understanding Cloud's state of mind in AC.

Only the sexiest soda this side of creation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheerwine

Heavy on the food coloring. Looks like it makes your poop red.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Someone wants me to use just in game and in movie quotes to prove Cloud loves Tifa... It's been a while since I played the game... so can I ask for help on this one?

Yes. Add from the quotes you have the 'there's so much I want to tell you, nothing's changed' the 'secret wish I'm fighting for' 'secret wish no one can know' response

Cheerwine? Fill me in.

Categorically awesome cherry flavored Soda.
CheerwineFinder.com
See if it's in your area.

Does this mean no CoT? I don't know how any unbiased person can read Cloud wanting Tifa with him forever in a way that's different from before + blushing + "sorry I didn't consult with you on major decisions affecting our home and family" as college roommates.

I agree with Bella here- include COT and DoC even if they protest. They have no grounds for ignoring actual parts of the narrative.
However, WHILE YOU'RE DOING THIS, Quex, DEMAND THE SAME OF THEM. NEVER make a demand or acquiesce to a condition in a debate that both parties are not beholden to.

Heavy on the food coloring. Looks like it makes your poop red.

Not in the slightest. If it did, I'd be the one to know...
It does use food coloring, but not a whole hell of a lot, actually. Bottom of the list.

 

[Vendel]

I just find the situation highly amusing.

"Prove Harry loves Ginny. But only use book 1 and 3."

 

[Dashell]

However, WHILE YOU'RE DOING THIS, Quex, DEMAND THE SAME OF THEM. NEVER make a demand or acquiesce to a condition in a debate that both parties are not beholden to.

She already plead her case by saying if CLoud truly loved Tifa he wouldn't have gone to the church and the Cait Sith prediction bullshit.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

She already plead her case by saying if CLoud truly loved Tifa he wouldn't have gone to the church and the Cait Sith prediction bullshit.

I'm amazed you have the time and the patience to tango with such people.

You should ask her to prove that Cloud loves Aerith, using quotes only from the movie and game, without taking player responses into account. If she attempts to use player responses or the Aerith-date, you should bring up pro-Tifa player responses, and the Tifa date. And the Yuffie one. And the Barret one.

Don't forget to emphasize that when Tifa talks about a "deep memory locked in your heart," Cloud's deep memory was of Tifa. Yeah, I can see her platonically locked in his heart. Bah.

 

[Raquelborn]

She already plead her case by saying if CLoud truly loved Tifa he wouldn't have gone to the church...

Except this is often what depression does. It makes you hurt those you love the most and attempt to get away from them, even if you're hurting yourself in the process. He was escaping to a place of pain.

If it was the other way round then we would have been told that Cloud was happy living in Aerith's church and not when he was living with Tifa and the children.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

That must be fun, being able to believe only choice bits of the FF7 story and ignore the rest. Tell them it doesn't work that way Quex - canon is canon is canon, no matter what your opinion is, it's arrogant to pointedly ignore parts of the canon they don't like. Give them evidence from *all* of the Compilation entries, and if they object then tell them it's too bad, reality doesn't restructure itself to fit our beliefs, and the Compilation doesn't exclude certain entries to support Clerith more than Cloti.

I may ship Clerith, but I don't purposefully close my eyes and cover my ears and go "la la la la, I don't consider Case of Tifa canon, la la la la"

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Given the Compilation's tendency to itself ignore canon and continuity, I don't really care if someone chooses to ignore incompatible elements in their personal appreciation of FFVII (God knows I do), but when it comes to actually discussing canon -- which the LTD can really only be discussed in terms of -- then it's ridiculous.

You can't discuss canon while ignoring chunks of the canon.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Given the Compilation's tendency to itself ignore canon and continuity...

Good point. To paraphrases Kefka:

"Retcons, retcons everywhere!"

 

[Loxetta]

I find it amusing that a Clerith is trying to restrict Cloti evidence to OGC and AC/C, and yet most Clerith use Maiden Who Travels The Planet as Clerith evidence.

Don't let him/her/it try to choke you like that, Quexi. That's ridiculous.

 

[Isabella]

So ... apparently, because Case of Lifestream B&W features the thoughts and perspectives of both "the woman" and "the man," it is now written in third person omniscient.

Discuss.