So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Ryushikaze]

The thing is, the word typically IS used with implications of mutuality. Same as Beloved is used in English. But like Beloved, it's also used to indicate someone that is just loved without necessary reciprocation. Again, this is why context matters. If Aerith is using it in the 'mutuality' fashion, something doesn't fit. If she's using it in the sense of 'person I want to jump the bones of', then it's not fishy, but it seems a bit out of place for how her post-mortem emotions keep getting described regarding Chocobutt elsewhere in the compilation.

 

[Dashell]

Which side of the argument can you find a dissection of the word "koibito" that has gone through at least 3 different revisions, with a matching forum and section with "translators" who went through all threads saying that koibito didn't mean lover, and it was just a word to describe someone's traits as a character? Which side had a whole webpage devoted to warping the word?

Hint: It wasn't the Cloti side.

The neutrals?... ow ow ow ow quit throwing things I was kidding

What's funny is how many times I've heard the "context is what matters" from their side as well XD

If Aerith is using it in the 'mutuality' fashion, something doesn't fit.

Well that's where the debate comes into play I believe
and I don't even want to get into third person limited anymore

 

[Isabella]

Ehhh ... doesn't koibito indicate mutuality 99 times out of 100? That may not be its literal definition, but it is its connotation, or so I've been led to understand over the years.

 

[Dashell]

I think the point is it depends on context.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

"The truth ain't like puppies runnin' around and you pick your favorite one!"
-Emerson Cod, Pushing Daisies

...yeah, I just thought it was relevant to some points of the LT, 'specially the person who said Quex could only use certain sources.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ehhh ... doesn't koibito indicate mutuality 99 times out of 100? That may not be its literal definition, but it is its connotation, or so I've been led to understand over the years.

Typically yes. Again, like 'beloved' in English. And again, there are times when it doesn't. It is, after all, about context and perspective. I would describe it as the implicit but rebuttal implication of mutuality. Much akin to a lot of the bog-standard cues we see in fiction that inform us about the universe and characters.

 

[Dashell]

The Clerith side:

Context is what matters.

Reunion Files: since there's not a name attached the reunion files koibito, you can't say it's Cloud and you can't say it's mutual. If Nomura wanted to say it was Cloud, he would have just said it was and been done with it. It would make more sense that Nomura meant Tifa is loved by many people.

Case of Lifestream While: You are given two names, so it's more likely to be mutual here.

---------------------------
The Cloti side:

Context is what matters.

Reunion Files: Nomura is speaking about Tifa's important roles in the world, among being a koibito, a mother and an ally in life or death battles. These are roles she also holds important so it makes no sense for it to be anyone else but Cloud. Why would Nomura put "So and so has a crush on her" along side her being a mother and an ally? Plus Cloud's the only one not being referred to in her profile and he's the main character. Who else could it be?

Case of Lifestream While: This is a one sided love since it's never shown that Cloud ever reciprocated her advances. He had no times in those two weeks to say he loved her.

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The Quexinos side:

Does anyone really care what I think anyway?

 

[Ryushikaze]

The Clerith side:

Context is what matters.

Reunion Files: since there's not a name attached the reunion files koibito, you can't say it's Cloud and you can't say it's mutual. If Nomura wanted to say it was Cloud, he would have just said it was and been done with it. It would make more sense that Nomura meant Tifa is loved by many people.

Now the other 12 contradictory arguments, please.
And why you need a name for Lover and not mother and ally.

Case of Lifestream While: You are given two names, so it's more likely to be mutual here.

Ataru: Sakura sensei ga ore no koibito!
(Ataru is wrong)

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The Cloti side:

Context is what matters.

Reunion Files: Nomura is speaking about Tifa's important roles in the world, among being a koibito, a mother and an ally in life or death battles. These are roles she also holds important so it makes no sense for it to be anyone else but Cloud. Why would Nomura put "So and so has a crush on her" along side her being a mother and an ally? Plus Cloud's the only one not being referred to in her profile and he's the main character. Who else could it be?

'Only one not referred to in her profile?' You mean Cloud's the most often referred to in her profile, and connected with him and his family on numerous occasions.

Case of Lifestream While: This is a one sided love since it's never shown that Cloud ever reciprocated her advances. He had no times in those two weeks to say he loved her.

No, he had several times. He just had no intention to.

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The Quexinos side:

Does anyone really care what I think anyway?

Nope.

 

[Dashell]

Now the other 12 contradictory arguments, please.
And why you need a name for Lover and not mother and ally.

11 actually, but only 10 are left after this one

'Only one not referred to in her profile?' You mean Cloud's the most often referred to in her profile, and connected with him and his family on numerous occasions.

I mean Cloud's the only one that statement doesn't address, all though one could argue it works for ally in battle.

No, he had several times. He just had no intention to.

You know what I mean

Nope.

 

[Raquelborn]

And why you need a name for Lover and not mother and ally.

What exactly is the counter-argument to this point?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

What exactly is the counter-argument to this point?

From the looks of things, it used to be that it's saying "Tifa is loved by a lot of people," like "she's such a sweetheart, everybody loves her." But now it's typically that it refers to Johnny or Rude having a crush on her. Which would be very out of place alongside such important roles -- to her, the film and the book (which is about the film) -- as motherhood and ally in battle.

 

[Vossler]

From the looks of things, it used to be that it's saying "Tifa is loved by a lot of people," like "she's such a sweetheart, everybody loves her." But now it's typically that it refers to Johnny or Rude having a crush on her. Which would be very out of place alongside such important roles -- to her, the film and the book (which is about the film) -- as motherhood and ally in battle.

*walks in* Well didn't they say the same thing about Aerith? *runs out*

 

[Dashell]

From the looks of things, it used to be that it's saying "Tifa is loved by a lot of people," like "she's such a sweetheart, everybody loves her." But now it's typically that it refers to Johnny or Rude having a crush on her. Which would be very out of place alongside such important roles -- to her, the film and the book (which is about the film) -- as motherhood and ally in battle.

Do you know how many times I've heard "It could be talking about Cloud's crush on her as a kid?" or "it's not talking about the movie because it does not show her as someone's GF in the movie."?

 

[Makoeyes987]

*walks in* Well didn't they say the same thing about Aerith? *runs out*

No actually, they didn't.

 

[Vossler]

No actually, they didn't.

Well alrighty then.

 

[Isabella]

Do you know how many times I've heard "It could be talking about Cloud's crush on her as a kid?" or "it's not talking about the movie because it does not show her as someone's GF in the movie."?

Yeah this is the one I hear a lot too. I'm curious what's required for her to be portrayed as a girlfriend in the movie. A sex scene?

 

[Strangelove]

Well, how was Aerith portrayed as his girlfriend in FFVII/LSW/AC?

Oh wait, that's no help. Never mind.

 

[Isabella]

I just want to know how that logic works in their minds. "Let's see, Tifa's significant roles in AC are that of a mother figure to the children, an ally to her friends, and the object of a no-longer-applicable crush."

Well, how was Aerith portrayed as his girlfriend in FFVII/LSW/AC?

He kissed the rain, obviously.

 

[Beatrix]

I always thought Tifa was Cloud's true lover. I thought it was obvious in the fireworks scene. Like someone said before, even Nomura said so, so it must be right.

 

[Celes Chere]

A sex scene?

Well, that didn't convince anyone in FFVII, so I guess it wouldn't work in the movie either. Apparently Aerith and Cloud's date in the park > Cloud and Tifa living together and raising a family.

 

[Vossler]

Well, that didn't convince anyone in FFVII, so I guess it wouldn't work in the movie either. Apparently Aerith and Cloud's date in the park > Cloud and Tifa living together and raising a family.

I would go with the latter.

 

[Isabella]

Well, that didn't convince anyone in FFVII, so I guess it wouldn't work in the movie either. Apparently Aerith and Cloud's date in the park > Cloud and Tifa living together and raising a family.

Well, see, anyone could live together and raise children. But not just anyone would stop to chat in a park. That's on a whole other level.

 

[Username]

If Aerith would have lived then cloud would of stuck with her over tifa, this is for sure.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I always thought Tifa was Cloud's true lover. I thought it was obvious in the fireworks scene. Like someone said before, even Nomura said so, so it must be right.

Welcome to TLS, Beatrix. The C/T case is pretty evident everywhere, really. You have to be pretty willfully obtuse to miss it.

If Aerith would have lived then cloud would of stuck with her over tifa, this is for sure.

No. No it is not.
Let us say Aerith lives. What sets her above the girl Cloud has had a crush on since the age of 8 or younger? What indicates Cloud WOULD HAVE gone after her?

 

[Celes Chere]

Well, see, anyone could live together and raise children. But not just anyone would stop to chat in a park. That's on a whole other level.

Oh God, why didn't I see the signs? Obviously User-Name can.