So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

Who does Cloud love?

  • Aerith

    Votes: 20 14.2%
  • Tifa

    Votes: 121 85.8%

  • Total voters
    141
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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
But it's not that she's not the focus, but rather, that she doesn't even warrant a single mention, or her image appearing anywhere, which is odd if she is supposed to be the ZOMFG Tragic lost love, given that we're literally in the depths of Cloud's subconscious, and seeing the things that are important to him, what makes him HIM.
But but... it's cause he's recalling events that took place before he met Aerith... yes those events made him who is he and yes Tifa is the center thus she's important, but all that stuff happened BEFORE he met Aerith. He's trying to remember if he grew up in Nibelheimor if he was created by Hojo. And Aerith wasn't there for that.

You are mistaken. :P
What else is new?... -_-

How do you figure? The scenery is nice, the atmosphere is good, and Tifa always knows what's on his mind.
Tifa: Hey Cloud what's in this room?
Cloud: Wait don't open that-
Tifa: OH MY GOD... you wanna do THAT to me?
*Cloud puts hand behind head*
Tifa:... we can do that...
Cloud: :D

EDIT:
Or wait would that be a good thing if she knows what he's thinking?

Tifa: So Cloud let's talk a bit, get to know each other some more...
Cloud's thoughts: "Boobs boobs boobs boobs..."
Tifa: ...
Cloud: dammit.
 
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Splintered

unsavory tart
I dunno.

There was something even more supernatural about it. One does not simply wander into Cloud's mind. The Cloti in me saw it as a, "Okay, I leave him in your hands" kind of deal. I'm not trying to detract from the Cloud-Tifa moment. But Aerith serves as a sort of mothering overlooker of all things, and the fact that the majority of it happened in the lifestream just seemed to click.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
But but... it's cause he's recalling events that took place before he met Aerith... yes those events made him who is he and yes Tifa is the center thus she's important, but all that stuff happened BEFORE he met Aerith. He's trying to remember if he grew up in Nibelheimor if he was created by Hojo. And Aerith wasn't there for that.

Yes, and I'm saying that outside those events, in the background, there is nary a stray image of Aerith, the girl who pinkers claims he shall love forever and for true and who lives on inside of him.
And further, the instances where Cloud determines that he wasn't created by Hojo don't explicitly need to relate to instances involving Tifa, or reaffirm his promise, or have him reveal he was trying to impress Tifa.
Cloud discovering he's a real person can be done WITHOUT all of the goddamn focus on Tifa which is my goddamn point, and if he was godfucking head over heels over Aerith AS IS CLAIMED, one would expect to see, IN HIS DEEPEST FUCKING SUBCONSCIOUS WHICH IS WHERE THIS ENTIRE SEQUENCE OCCURS AND I CANNOT STRESS THIS FUCKING ENOUGH, at least SOME fucking mention of the DEAD GIRL HE IS SUPPOSEDLY MADLY AND FOREVER IN LOVE WITH.
DO.
I.
MAKE.
MY.
FUCKING.
POINT?

Tifa: Hey Cloud what's in this room?
Cloud: Wait don't open that-
Tifa: OH MY GOD... you wanna do THAT to me?
*Cloud puts hand behind head*
Tifa:... we can do that...
Cloud: :D

And that's how the special hand motion came about.

EDIT:
Or wait would that be a good thing if she knows what he's thinking?

Tifa: So Cloud let's talk a bit, get to know each other some more...
Cloud's thoughts: "Boobs boobs boobs boobs..."
Tifa: ...
Cloud: dammit.

Isn't that just assumed, though?

I dunno.

There was something even more supernatural about it. One does not simply wander into Cloud's mind.

Quick. Someone make a Boromir Macro.

The Cloti in me saw it as a, "Okay, I leave him in your hands" kind of deal. I'm not trying to detract from the Cloud-Tifa moment. But Aerith serves as a sort of mothering overlooker of all things, and the fact that the majority of it happened in the lifestream just seemed to click.

If Aerith had been shown there, I could see where you were coming from, and if we include Maiden, yes, but as is, it seems like something done by Cloud subconsciously.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
You know I never said he was madly in love with Aerith or anything. That's not my point. I'm not trying to say the focus wasn't on Tifa or that Tifa wasn't important or that he doesn't love Tifa or anything like that. My point is... you know I just woke up from a nap and... I don't feel like going any further with this.

DO.
I.
MAKE.
MY.
FUCKING.
POINT?
Ill say yes on the condition that you stop yelling at me :'(
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
You know I never said he was madly in love with Aerith or anything. That's not my point.

I never said it was, or trying to say that was your point.

I was, in fact, making a scene for the audience. Hello, audience. I know you're watching. Please do grow a spine. I ever so wish to do battle with you directly. It's a shame you are, as previously mentioned, utterly spineless, hiding behind the safety of your little pink flunkies.

I'm not trying to say the focus wasn't on Tifa or that Tifa wasn't important or that he doesn't love Tifa or anything like that. My point is... you know I just woke up from a nap and... I don't feel like going any further with this.

Your point is that the point of the scene was Cloud realizing his real self. And my point is that we're learning about the real Cloud for the first time, meeting the real him. And that as we do so, we get hit up again with Tifa. The reaffirmation of the promise, the revelation that he wanted to impress her, that he kept looking up at her window as a kid and was so happy to be a part of her group, even for a moment. They changed Cloud and Tifa's interaction in the reactor to add him gently setting her aside, and apologizing for being late.
My point is that it is not necessary for Cloud learning who he truly is to reaffirm Tifa as much as it happens unless the creators want us to take something from it. It's not necessary unless Tifa being affirmed is necessary for an understand of the Real Cloud, if she somehow makes up a part of who he is.

Ill say yes on the condition that you stop yelling at me :'(

I would rather you say yes on the condition that my point was made.

And I'm not yelling at you. I'm YELLING because the fucking concept of him being ZOMFSASJHDKAJDHAKSJDHKASJDH In True and Forever Eternal Pure Love Beyond Death with Aerith when she doesn't even warrant a second's notice, even peripherally inside the very core of his being is not just patently absurd, it is infuriating.
 

Isabella

Your Mom
Just to reiterate what Ryu had a hissy over said ever so subtlely, they could have made those memories uncovered in the Lifestream be about anything. They chose to make the whole sequence be about Tifa, and about how his little universe was centered around her and how those feelings led him to make the choices he did. Aerith was set up to look like the quintessential love interest, and then they pulled the rug out from under us.

I'm still waiting for a Clerith to explain why they went to all that trouble to introduce this twist, this bombshell, at the most pivotal point in the game if this new info is irrelevant to the plot.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I was, in fact, making a scene for the audience. Hello, audience. I know you're watching. Please do grow a spine. I ever so wish to do battle with you directly. It's a shame you are, as previously mentioned, utterly spineless, hiding behind the safety of your little pink flunkies.
tailsemoter.gif

They don't watch here dude. At least none of the important ones do... recently... within the last couple days... hours... minutes...

I would rather you say yes on the condition that my point was made.
I never really disagreed with your point... at least not the point you just made... but I think my point has SOME bearing.

It doesn't does it? :sigh:

And I'm not yelling at you.
You're yelling WITH me :awesome:

I'm YELLING because the fucking concept of him being ZOMFSASJHDKAJDHAKSJDHKASJDH In True and Forever Eternal Pure Love Beyond Death with Aerith.
... okay I'm sorry, the concept of what now? Could you say it out loud? I'd really like to hear you pronounce that ^_^

The way I see it, the Lifestream event is very good Cloti evidence. I hope I never implied otherwise. I just don't think we need to throw the "And Aerith wasn't there..." because well ... honestly... does it need to be said? It's not like they're saying it's Clerith evidence. Plus I still stand by my statement... :puppy: Not saying it's not Cloti evidence cause it is, but ... I just have a different reason as for why Aerith wasn't in those thoughts.

EDIT:
All though I guess... yeah if Cloud had been totally in love with Aerith then yeah she would have been there.. I see what's wrong, I'm looking at this from a completely Cloti standpoint. To me Aerith was no more important than a lot of his other friends... (Okay yes I've said that it's possible he had romantic feelings for Aerith... but once he fell into the lifestream and was searching his mind... if there were romantic feelings, they were gone by then because he remembered about Tifa) but none of the others were there either. If I look at it from a Clerith standpoint... and Cloud really was in love with Aerith and she was MORE important than Tifa, she should have been in his thoughts...

Hey I GET IT ^_^
I FINALLY GET IT! :D


what someone will probably say said:
Yeah good job Que it only took two LT topics and over 800 pages for you to figure that out
SHUT UP :rage:
 
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Raquelborn

"I slice your ass in 4."
AKA
Raq, Raquel.
I repeat, does anyone recall the quote in which one of the creators states a decision for the LTD had been made and voted on by the staff?

Thanks.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I would also like to repeat that I'd like KisstheRain to post the Clerith evidence that so strongly compels her to be neutral.
 

Fairheartstrife

[no fucks given]
AKA
FHS, that cloti bitch
I repeat, does anyone recall the quote in which one of the creators states a decision for the LTD had been made and voted on by the staff?

Thanks.

I honestly don't recall such a quote. I remember an interview from way back where Nomura said that even the staff had their opinions of who was the better girl for Cloud, (while the game was in production) and some even wanted to put it to a vote, but Nojima had a clear scenario in his mind and the story developed as it developed. Something like that. Is that the quote you're looking for?
 
wat? Where is this? I'm a bit of a horrible fantard for ZA but I've never read anything like that. I kind of gave up hope since Maiden and Case of Lifestream.
You gave up hope, really? Tisk tisk...

The destined encounter with Zack makes them becomes the irreplaceable existence to each other.

And there are so many other quotes talking about how in love Zack and Aerith are... how Aerith sees Zack in Cloud and how her interactions with Cloud were purposely shown to be things she did or said with Zack.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Just to reiterate what Ryu had a hissy over said ever so subtlely,

I'd describe that more as a half psychotic rant than a hissy fit.

they could have made those memories uncovered in the Lifestream be about anything. They chose to make the whole sequence be about Tifa, and about how his little universe was centered around her and how those feelings led him to make the choices he did. Aerith was set up to look like the quintessential love interest, and then they pulled the rug out from under us.

I'm still waiting for a Clerith to explain why they went to all that trouble to introduce this twist, this bombshell, at the most pivotal point in the game if this new info is irrelevant to the plot.

[pinker]How is it a pivotal plot point? It doesn't have Aerith in it![/pinker]

But seriously, not only was it coupled with the biggest plot reveal in the game, it was done with repetition three times.

tailsemoter.gif

They don't watch here dude. At least none of the important ones do... recently... within the last couple days... hours... minutes...

They shall see. They shall see.

I never really disagreed with your point... at least not the point you just made... but I think my point has SOME bearing.

It doesn't does it? :sigh:

It was kind of irrelevant to the point I was making.

You're yelling WITH me :awesome:

Mostly just in general.

... okay I'm sorry, the concept of what now? Could you say it out loud? I'd really like to hear you pronounce that ^_^

Listen to an angry german man, that'll get you pretty close.

The way I see it, the Lifestream event is very good Cloti evidence. I hope I never implied otherwise. I just don't think we need to throw the "And Aerith wasn't there..." because well ... honestly... does it need to be said? It's not like they're saying it's Clerith evidence. Plus I still stand by my statement... :puppy: Not saying it's not Cloti evidence cause it is, but ... I just have a different reason as for why Aerith wasn't in those thoughts.

EDIT:
All though I guess... yeah if Cloud had been totally in love with Aerith then yeah she would have been there.. I see what's wrong, I'm looking at this from a completely Cloti standpoint. To me Aerith was no more important than a lot of his other friends... (Okay yes I've said that it's possible he had romantic feelings for Aerith... but once he fell into the lifestream and was searching his mind... if there were romantic feelings, they were gone by then because he remembered about Tifa) but none of the others were there either. If I look at it from a Clerith standpoint... and Cloud really was in love with Aerith and she was MORE important than Tifa, she should have been in his thoughts...

Hey I GET IT ^_^
I FINALLY GET IT! :D



SHUT UP :rage:

And thus, my point is made.
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
wat? Where is this? I'm a bit of a horrible fantard for ZA but I've never read anything like that. I kind of gave up hope since Maiden and Case of Lifestream.
Who the hell said this? If you were a fantard for Z/A then Maiden and CoL shouldn't even phase you. Hence the term "fantard". FFVII, AC/C, CC, and everything else in between all have heavier Z/A than Maiden and CoL can ever hope to stamp out. And as far as I know, while Maiden isn't completely canon, it's also Z/A and C/T. Did you even read it? If so, how can it make you lose hope for Z/A? And CoL happens before AC/C. What happened in the end of AC/C? Z/A.

Please, that's hypocrisy fail. Clearly, you are a biased Clerith. Don't claim to be something you're not by posting ridiculous things like that. Whoever you are.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
wat? Where is this? I'm a bit of a horrible fantard for ZA but I've never read anything like that.

Crisis Core Ultimania. I've posted the quotes so many times in this very thread. DX Do you want them ... again? -sobs- I so cba... but I will do it. XD

There are so many Zerith quotes, it'll make your head spin. Though apparently, it's all in the past so it doesn't count.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Because the past clearly has no bearing on the future, right? The past means nothing.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Yeah, especially when the quotes refer to the future anyway.

DUUUR.

Here are the quotes, btw: (Some are from the Ultimania too)

The dull life in the Slum, the love with a SOLDIER who fell from the sky.

In CC, Aerith is just a 15-year-old girl. Under the surveillance from Shinra, who wanted to worm out the location of the Promise Land from the Ancients. Growing flowers seems trivial but it brought her joy while she lived at the Sector 5 Slums. At that chosen day, she accidentally met Zack, SOLDIER 1st Class, and they were attracted to each other…

Quote: text near img of Aerith's pointing to the Church's roof
Just like Cloud in FF7, Zack fell to Aerith’s Church. Meeting him brings along her first love.
Quote: text near img of Aerith's talking, saying "Everyman would notice the flowers, I mean, normally."
Inspired by the flowers that she forbids trampling, they planed to sell flowers at the market. In CC, Aeirth used to say that flowers are indispensable.
Quote: text near img of Aerith holding Zack
Aerith gently embraced Zack, who came back sad. The atmosphere makes them feel like a couple....


Quote:
[ ν ] - εуλ 0000

(Age 15)

·CC - Midgar

She met Zack in the Sector 5 church, and became very
intimate with him.


The "girlfriend" reported at the parent's house.

6-7 years prior to FFVII, Zack's "I've managed to get a girlfriend" letter was left out in the parents' home. If it was 6-7 years ago, it was about the time where he met Aerith in CC... Does that mean the girlfriend was Aerith?


Quote:
To Dad and Mom,
How are you?
I'm sorry for suddenly rushing out of the village. The truth is that I really wanted to become a SOLDIER. I thought that saying that would worry you . . . I'm now fulfilling my dreams and working hard as a SOLDIER.

P.S. I've managed to get a girlfriend.

-Zack


Quote:
Zack seems to have a number of girlfriends, but especially informing his home means there's no doubt that the partner is a special one.


Quote:
As a result of being able to surmise everything from each small deed, Aerith, who was in love with Zack, might perhaps have been jealous many times seeing all that...

The girl pretty as flowers blooms in Zack’s mind.

Quote:
The destined encounter with Zack makes them becomes the irreplaceable existence to each other.

Quote:
The chosen day, Zack suddenly fell from the roof of the Church in the Slum. His bright confidence immediately catches her mind, and they start a relationship as a couple.

Quote:
Aerith honestly expresses her good feeling to Zack straight out, and that also makes his heart skip a beat.

Quote:
Selling flowers will richen both wallet and streets?

Aerith’s interest is taking care of flowers, but flowers rarely bloom in Slum because the sky is covered by the Plate. Aerith’s dream is to plant a lot of flowers around the Slum—for such a dream, Zack suggests that she should sell those flowers she plants, and not just around the Slum, but make the whole Midgar full of flowers. His plan that “If Midgar is full of flowers, then your wallet will be full too!” opens up a gate to a new world to Aerith.

Quote:
The more Aerith knows about Zack, the more she’s attracted by him. Her manner toward Zack is also sweet.

Quote:
Repeating Zack’s look with Cloud’s.

Being an Ancient, Aerith did her utmost to save the Planet, even sacrificed life—in FF7, the impression of Aerith being such a tragic heroine is strong. Nevertheless, the most significant link to FF7 is the conversations about Cloud. The reason why she’s a flower girl when she first meets Cloud, the beginning of love with her first love, Zack, and the reason she saw Zack in Cloud—all those things we don’t know in FF7 are made clear in CC.

Text: Aerith asks Cloud to be her bodyguard. Does her “one date” as the payment repeat what Zack used to say to her?

Quote:
*Text near the img of Zack and Aerith in CC:
Aerith never talks about her bitterness but lives brightly. It is growing by degrees into inseparable relationship.

Nojima: The setting that “falling from the roof of the Church” repeats Aerith’s encounter with Cloud was decided in the beginning. Though we’re talking about love, they are still young back then and there’s no time to describe “how they become fond of each other” in the game. So I made it like “falling into a sudden crush.”

Nojima: However, Zack did not appear only for the reason as a key to the puzzle. The setting of “Aerith overlaps Cloud with her first love” and Zack as the key character are settled before I joined the team of development.

All of the DMW memories of Aerith:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19vXro4MTgs


In Crisis Core, there is a fanclub of Zack fans that forms called "Hero". When Zack goes missing and is reported "dead", they interview "A girl who is very close to Zack". (This is in a club e-mail you get)

When they interview her, one of the things Aeris says is:

"Zack, my wagon broke... so I will now continue to sell flowers in a basket."

Me: In the game guide it talks about Zack and Aeris being a "star-crossed pair". =D They are talking about the "touching scene" about the 23 wishes. x] Also, on Aeris' profile, her quote is,
"I feel safe, as long as you're with me, Zack."
 
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Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
I don't know why they made CC at all, that worthless piece of software.

And why did Tolkin waste all that time writing about the backstory of Middle Earth? None of that crap matters!
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Seto Kaiba would be the biggest denouncer of Zack and Aerith.

"The past means nothing! I only see the shining future ahead of me!"

"I am different from you—I'm only interested in the future. The past for me is a target to be smashed!"
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
No, not a Clerith. Just anti-Zerith. :awesome: He's not delusional, and he certainly doesn't believe in such "magical" things like "love after death" and "soul mates". :monster:
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
He's not, because Aerith died and is now in the past, whereas Cloud talked about spending his future with Tifa :monster:
 
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