So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[DrakeClawfang]

Since we're on Dissidia, I'll share something. In Shade Impulse,

Spoiler

when Cloud defeats Sephiroth, in one translation I read he said "you're not the one I want to meet". And it made me think of the line at the end of FF7, "I think I can meet her there", so I saw Clerith there. Then another translation gave the line as "I never want to meet you again", which doesn't carry the same sort of allusion. So now I'm unsure what the intent of the line was. I'm wondering too, how the English release will give that line.

 

[Dashell]

"I think I can meet her there"

Which was a mistranslation. It was a comment on how he could meet all of his loved ones who've passed on in the promised land. Tifa too.

My opinion is there's no canon answer to that, because Cloud's emotions are in the hands of the player during that time.

And you know, I think I'd rather have that answer than a "NO NO NO!" or "YES OF COURSE!"

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Which was a mistranslation. It was a comment on how he could meet all of his loved ones who've passed on in the promised land. Tifa too.

Ah, I didn't know that.

As for Cloud's Crystal,

Spoiler

Clerith believes aside, it would make sense for it to be the Holy Materia, or at least a reference to it. Given the Holy Materia's relationship with protecting the planet and such.

I really wish they'd gone more in-depth with what the Crystals are in relation to the worlds and the characters, as-is they just seem like arbitrary McGuffins that the characters strive towards. Like Terra's Crystal, in my fanfic, it's the Magicite of Maduin, and his connection to Terra and it being in the hands of Chaos' minions is why Terra is losing control over her powers again.

I'm not expecting exactly that, but I wish the game gave us something to better establish the characters and worlds. There has to be some sort of story about what Dissidia's Crystals are and such and such, I'd like to know that. And I'd like to know more about the characters. I mean yeah, they're already established via the original games, but it would be nice to learn more about:

A - if they are different from the original cast, let's learn about these incarnations, or
B - if they're the same as the original cast, let's learn how they got to where they are in Dissidia. Like, if Terra is the same Terra from FF6, how did she get her magic back?

 

[Isabella]

@Drake: I'm quite curious how that line will be translated officially.

And you know, I think I'd rather have that answer than a "NO NO NO!" or "YES OF COURSE!"

My take: I think Cloud's feelings for Aerith are up to interpretation. I don't think Cloud ending up in a romantic relationship with Tifa is up to interpretation. So I don't have a problem with people thinking he was falling for Aerith, just with the C/T relationship deniers and the "Aerith has taken up residence in his left ventricle" people.

 

[Dashell]

@Drake: I'm quite curious how that line will be translated officially.


My take: I think Cloud's feelings for Aerith are up to interpretation. I don't think Cloud ending up in a romantic relationship with Tifa is up to interpretation. So I don't have a problem with people thinking he was falling for Aerith, just with the C/T relationship deniers and the "Aerith has taken up residence in his left ventricle" people.

My belief was, has been and always will be that he did have feelings for Aerith, and they were very possibly romantic ones. Be it by Jenova's will, Zack's influence or what have you, the feelings were there. But after the Lifestream event, he realized who he was meant to be with and that's who he sought out to be with... and that's who he's GOING to be with, and consequently... who he's with

Spoiler

And it's not Aerith

@Drake: I'm quite curious how that line will be translated officially.

Watch as shock and horror overcomes the Cloti community as Cloud says, "There's only one person I want to meet and it's Aerith."
Incidentally, I'd like to see us work our way out of that one.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Spoiler: Dissidia spoiler

I think it'd be really weird if it was Aerith's materia, since she hides it in her hair and it was most certainly not as big as Cloud's fist like in the ending.

Unrelated note, when is Dissidia supposed to take place, before or after their games?

 

[Reith123]

"My belief was, has been and always will be that he did have feelings for Aerith, and they were very possibly romantic ones. Be it by Jenova's will, Zack's influence or what have you, the feelings were there. But after the Lifestream event, he realized who he was meant to be with and that's who he sought out to be with... and that's who he's GOING to be with, and consequently... who he's with "

THANKS TO QUEX, THIS PRETTY MUCH SUMS UP THE LTD AND HOW THINGS ARE, THIS SHOULD BE THE CLOSING STATEMENT IF THEY WERE CLOSING THIS THREAD, QUEX'S STATEMENT.

 

[Dashell]

Uhm... thanks I'm glad you liked it so much ;

 

[Reith123]

well its a good statement, thats pretty much the jist of it and that should be the closing statement, should this thread close.

 

[Tennyo]

My belief was, has been and always will be that he did have feelings for Aerith, and they were very possibly romantic ones. Be it by Jenova's will, Zack's influence or what have you, the feelings were there. But after the Lifestream event, he realized who he was meant to be with and that's who he sought out to be with... and that's who he's GOING to be with, and consequently... who he's with

Spoiler

And it's not Aerith

This, and coupled with Bella's quotes, really make up the LTD and describe my take on it. Cloud may or may not have had feelings for Aerith. Said feelings may have been his own, or Zack's, or a mixture of different things. Since they really are up to the discretion of the player it may never be known for sure. She certainly meant a lot to him regardless, and she means a lot to the overall story as a whole, what with calling Holy and being a Cetra and all.

However yes, Lifestream sequence. It was a surprise plot twist, as any good story will have, that reveals to us that there's something going on there with Tifa, and from this point onward the player no longer has any choices because Cloud is back to normal. Cloud's choices are his own, and he chooses Tifa.

I've never understood why it's such a bad thing for Cloud to end up with Tifa. It don't see how it diminishes Aerith at all as a character. I mean what, in order for her to have any type of importance she has to be the eternal love of the hero? She can't stand alone as her own person? Excuse me?

I mean heck, Cloud pining after Aerith for the rest of his life completely goes against the ending of AC/ACC! It goes against Aerith's own wishes for him! She wants him to move on from his past and be happy. He isn't going to get that with a dead girl now is he?

 

[paoo]

I mean heck, Cloud pining after Aerith for the rest of his life completely goes against the ending of AC/ACC!

If that was the purpose, it would really be a bad ending at the story. Just.. depressing and Cloud would seem like a loser. It wouldn't work.

It goes against Aerith's own wishes for him! She wants him to move on from his past and be happy. He isn't going to get that with a dead girl now is he?

In the end, I think Aerith looks at Cloud and Tifa as a mother-figure. She really feels like that watching mother, especially over Cloud.

 

[Dashell]

Well Cloud IS a loser but...

 

[KissTheRain]

Yeah will this loser scored the biggest babes in all of Gaia. XD

 

[paoo]

Well Cloud IS a sexy loser but...

fgj.

But well, a DORK. And Cloud can kick ass, so I wouldn't really call him a loser. The loser Cloud is the one that will blame himself for Aerith's death and try and be with her for his whole life.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Don't forget too that as much as ZaCloud may or may not have been flirting with Aerith, he can do the same with Tifa. I find it irrelevant to the LTD as a debate, because as has been said, at the end of all the choices, he chooses to be with Tifa.

Another direction to push the thread. I find a lot of Clerii using "Cloud and Aerith's date is the default one" as proof. Leaving the fact that the date is Aerith admitting she doesn't know Cloud and knows something's up, and Cloud not really paying attention, is it really the default date?

When you look at the moments that affect the date mechanism, Aerith starts off with more. However, Tifa can get a lead on Aerith before you even meet her (or tie it up, I don't remember exactly). So, couldn't it be possible that Aerith starts with more stats so that the girls would have an even ground?

I know Aerith asks Cloud for the date, so storyline wise the date makes sense to finally happen. I just don't think it's as default as is claimed.

There's also the ultimania stuff there in Cloud's profile for the date it shows a picture of Cloud and Tifa's date, for example.

EDIT: Looked it up. Before you even meet Aerith (as in, before the church, not before the flower) you can have Tifa's score go beyond hers.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Don't forget too that as much as ZaCloud may or may not have been flirting with Aerith, he can do the same with Tifa. I find it irrelevant to the LTD as a debate, because as has been said, at the end of all the choices, he chooses to be with Tifa.

Another direction to push the thread. I find a lot of Clerii using "Cloud and Aerith's date is the default one" as proof. Leaving the fact that the date is Aerith admitting she doesn't know Cloud and knows something's up, and Cloud not really paying attention, is it really the default date?

When you look at the moments that affect the date mechanism, Aerith starts off with more. However, Tifa can get a lead on Aerith before you even meet her (or tie it up, I don't remember exactly). So, couldn't it be possible that Aerith starts with more stats so that the girls would have an even ground?

She gets a one or two point lead if you respond the right way and don't get caught on the train.

I know Aerith asks Cloud for the date, so storyline wise the date makes sense to finally happen. I just don't think it's as default as is claimed.

There's also the ultimania stuff there in Cloud's profile for the date it shows a picture of Cloud and Tifa's date, for example.

EDIT: Looked it up. Before you even meet Aerith (as in, before the church, not before the flower) you can have Tifa's score go beyond hers.

I just assume they all happen sequentially. Hence Cloud finally just giving up and going out for Barret's man to man talk without a fuss.

 

[Reith123]

well cloud is one lucky betch to land on tifa, he better learn to appreciate what he has NOW, before its gone like..Aerith for example.

Aerith is a mother figure watching over C/T and blah blah.

 

[Madame Mayor]

I just assume they all happen sequentially. Hence Cloud finally just giving up and going out for Barret's man to man talk without a fuss.

I remember your theory on this. Does that mean the play happens four times as well? (The play part happens in all the dates right? It's been a while...).

I do like this idea though, that canon wise they all just happen.

 

[paoo]

Another direction to push the thread. I find a lot of Clerii using "Cloud and Aerith's date is the default one" as proof. Leaving the fact that the date is Aerith admitting she doesn't know Cloud and knows something's up, and Cloud not really paying attention, is it really the default date?

Well, I think it's the default one because SE wanted to give Aerith as much space as possible before she died. And yeah, it goes with the storyline and it was kind of important to know that Aerith realized that Cloud was different from Zack.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Well, I think it's the default one because SE wanted to give Aerith as much space as possible before she died. And yeah, it goes with the storyline and it was kind of important to know that Aerith realized that Cloud was different from Zack.

Yes, exactly. If she never had one date with him, then their agreement would have never been resolved, and that leaves the game with a big plot hole. It'd be like Tifa never being able to find the real Cloud or something.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I have to admit, after watching ACC, I've been thinking about Cloti.

I do believe Cloud and Aerith love each other, I do. But I acknowledge that hey, she's dead, and flower-field spirit sex and living in his heart all aside, she's dead and there's no future there.

With the original AC, I got the feeling that the film was about Cloud coming to terms with his guilt about Aerith and Zack's deaths and dealing with Sephiroth's shadow over him. But after seeing ACC...well, I still see the "guilt" theme, but more than that I understand it's not so much about Cloud feeling guilty about his loved ones dying, but worried that he won't be able to protect his family from dying in the same way.

ACC made me think of Cloud's mindset in the aftermath of FF7 in a new way. Just saying, it's making me think about how he's living his life and handling a fatherly-role now.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I remember your theory on this. Does that mean the play happens four times as well? (The play part happens in all the dates right? It's been a while...).

I do like this idea though, that canon wise they all just happen.

It happens on all but Barret's date, ad all four go on the gondola.
And yes, they pull the audience participation shtick a LOT at real theme parks, so running it multiple times doesn't strike me as odd.

And Terra, it's wouldn't be a plot hole. An unresolved arc, perhaps, but not a plot hole.

 

[Dashell]

I have to admit, after watching ACC, I've been thinking about Cloti.

Nothing wrong with thinking about Cloti I'm glad to see you get the general idea too.

I do believe Cloud and Aerith love each other, I do. But I acknowledge that hey, she's dead, and flower-field spirit sex and living in his heart all aside, she's dead and there's no future there.

Welcome to reality, we've been expecting you

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Welcome to reality, we've been expecting you

Been here a while, I've always known that about Cloud and Aerith. But since when has a lack of a future in the relationship ever stopped couples in love stories?

 

[Raquelborn]

Don't forget too that as much as ZaCloud may or may not have been flirting with Aerith, he can do the same with Tifa. I find it irrelevant to the LTD as a debate, because as has been said, at the end of all the choices, he chooses to be with Tifa.

I'm in complete agreement. You can't argue a certain couple is the true one if you're determined to base it on what is optional, when the rival female has non-optional romantically suggestive scenes.

I find a lot of Clerii using "Cloud and Aerith's date is the default one" as proof.

When you look at the moments that affect the date mechanism, Aerith starts off with more. However, Tifa can get a lead on Aerith before you even meet her (or tie it up, I don't remember exactly). So, couldn't it be possible that Aerith starts with more stats so that the girls would have an even ground?

Thank you for that. It's something people tend to miss. You get more time with Tifa before Aerith even shows up, so if anything it would be unfair if Tifa and Aerith started off with the same affection points because Tifa would be likely to have a very heavy lead by the time you meet Aerith. (Making Tifa the deafult date). Giving Aerith an extra 20 points basically helps to even out the playing field considering Tifa can already be 2 points up on her anyway.

There's also the ultimania stuff there in Cloud's profile for the date it shows a picture of Cloud and Tifa's date, for example.

And the fact that Tifa's date is used over Aerith's in Reminiscence.
(I can't find the exact video right now but I'll edit it in if I find it.)